callmened wrote:Its crazy how everything comes down to melo

It's only that way because of a couple people who saturate the board with anti Melo comments for everything.

Knixkik wrote:

callmened wrote:Its crazy how everything comes down to melo

It's only that way because of a couple people who saturate the board with anti Melo comments for everything.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

callmened wrote:Its crazy how everything comes down to melo

It's only that way because of a couple people who saturate the board with anti Melo comments for everything.

Briggs is the one who brought Melo into this thread. Or were you counting him int he anti-Melo crowd?

I have no problem with melo--Im not interested in paying him 30mm per year. I think well be stuck where we are now.

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

RonRon wrote:trading earlier and admitting we made way too many mistakes since the deal for Melo, and retool with youth, assets, and CAP SPACE for 2015 FA class
The more we lose, the more lowballs we will get, unfortunately, we don't own this summer's draft pick...

in other words, Briggs does not see us stopping the bleeding with our lack of talent, and horrible coach with philosophies and lineups that don't work, but continues to be stubborn with it, lacking creativity and an actual system on both DEF and OFF

resigning Melo to a 20-30m contract will cost us another 10 years that he already cost us with the moves to get him, and the moves we were forced to overpay for since we were in "win now mode" with lack of flexibility and assets to offer

if we just let Walsh do his job, he would have just stayed patient, and sign players to trade, and collect/trade for assets, till the right deal came along which could have been

Cp3
Harden
D12

With no asset's and cap space, we have no shot at those players or future stars

Look at those players and what they were traded for, besides Ewing, NO OTHER TRADE is comparable, taking back 40-50m in salary for 1 player while rest are SCRUBs
Dolan couldn't resist the charm for Melo but now Melo is getting on his nerves talking about a contract while doing going as far as Gallo/Chandler and a FA that we could have signed with Curry's expiring could have got us the same result or better the past couple of years....

there are so many articles out there that highlighted how Walsh didn't not want to do this carmelo deal at this price...

Mike lupica made a great point. Knicks were in the drivers seat, we should have been able to make this deal with chandler, curry and his fat expiring and a couple of throw ins... instead we give up the farm... but whatever....

Knicks were not in the driver's seat if they really wanted Melo. Brooklyn was willing to take him without insurance of a new contract, which ultimately he made it clear he would have signed with them if he had no choice. Not making the deal is one thing, but saying we should have just given them less was not possible.

thats fine, if carmelo really wanted to come here and brooklyn wanted to risk the trade, we could have still had him... here is how it works..

Carmelo: I don't want to go to brooklyn
Denver: we are trading you there anyway..
carmelo: Ok

trade is made, he plays out the season and now it is over

carmelo to the nets: peace, I'm out!!

Knicks: Thanks nets....

Other scenario

Carmelo: I don't want to go to brooklyn
Denver: we are trading you there
Carmelo: Ok..

Carmelo being the greedy prick he is signs extension in NY..

Cool, good for the knicks..

Walsh: Ok, I hear CP3 and Dwight may be in play.. Lets start looking at how we can get in on that.. we have young assets, picks and cap space...

As I said, knicks were in the Drivers seat.. they didn't have to get carmelo, they had other options had they been patient.. which is what walsh was..

If carmelo really, really wanted to be here and win, he could have said, I won't sign an extension anywhere else... The end..

Not arguing Melo was selfish, however, i have never been in position to make that amount of money, so i can't say i wouldn't do the same if i knew i could get where i want and get the money i wanted. It's his right to be selfish in that case. This next contract will really tell us what we need to know.

Think about it, that is what exactly Morey did after Yao/Tmac went down, they started to just keep collecting assets, signing players to deals, and trading/building assets to wait for that deal to come at the right price

Now, they have a solid rotation for the next decade, surprisingly still have lots of young talent, potential/draft picks to go along with it, with the MLE still to use, and players to trade, with players willing to go there for the vet min with their core

To think it started with Tmac and Jeffries, also ex Knick Jordan Hill that was traded to Lakers for another 1st rounder in addition to hours and right to swap....

I am not trying to start an argument but just pointing out that success requires a vision, patience, ASSETS, and a little luck as well
It took time, but Morey just looked to collect as many assets as he could from then to now and rotating them in trades/lowered salaries, so he can sneak in some MLE's and now MINI MLE's, in addition to room exemption and bi annual exemption
If anyone thought the Rocket's would be good enough to be TITLE/CHAMPIONSHIP contenders 3 years ago, that wouldn't be very realistic, but look how things have changed

Being in NYK, we already have advantage of DOlan's pockets, in addition to possible bigger incentives for marketing/advertisements and not also reality TV shows

Vmart wrote:

callmened wrote:Its crazy how everything comes down to melo

His greed is the reason why the Knicks are in this position. No draft picks. His next contract will pretty much make sure the Knicks will never have enough talent to help him win a championship. This is the Knicks organization.

again, we literally gave half of our team with 4 starters in them with

Felton
Chandler
Gallo
MosGoV

in addition to the cap space, draft picks, losing a full 5m MLE to use, and losing the amnesty *more importantly* to get a legit top tier DEF C at the time

After the trade, we also had to over pay for talent because we had a limited life span on our roster to compete but had little salary to work with to get back players like BKLYN has done
We loss leverage, assets, draft picks, in order to choose who and the type of talent we needed to build a LEGIT team

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

callmened wrote:Its crazy how everything comes down to melo

It's only that way because of a couple people who saturate the board with anti Melo comments for everything.

Briggs is the one who brought Melo into this thread. Or were you counting him int he anti-Melo crowd?

No i didn't have him in mind. I am not counting this thread in particular, rather the entire body of work on this board.

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:at this point its far more plau·si·ble that Melo shoots us to a title then anything run by Dolan being built right

I have brought this up in a variety of ways. Look at teams like the Kings, Bucks, Bobcats, Suns, Raptors, etc who have been struggling to rebuild "the right way" for so many years. What indication do the pro-rebuild fans have that this team will be managed to any better results? It is better to use the advantage that NYC and MSG have and attract the best possible talent with a clean payroll. Having Melo and hopefully a fair amount of cap room is a much better place to be then tearing the house down for a chance to build it back up. In addition to that, more teams win by aquiring big time talent via trade and free agency then in the draft.

took the Bulls well over 10 years to do the same. At the time their drafts werent bad either, most thought guys like Jay Williams, Eddy Curry, Tyson, etc where good build around picks. Then you get bad luck and the best player available is Marcus Fizer.

I wont lie.. I once thought Melo was a part of the problem as some. If you watched at all last year he's not. This roster is total crap, zero player dev and the Chris Smith thing will honestly ruin the season. Im serious. When you award those who dont deserve it ruins the environment. Ive seen it at previous places Ive worked. It always leads to failure. Knicks are no different. When you see guys who worked their asses off for a roster spot only to see it go to a guy worth nothing it sends a clear message. Its not about effort or results. Its about creating a CAA playground.

Who's the message going to? Ike SansDiego? Some D-league tripe that no other team has bothered to pick up yet? Who worked their azz off for a roster spot that's not on the roster, who's going to impact us so significantly at the far end of the towel waving contingent? Chris Smith is parked at the far end of the bench and will likely live there unless or until Woody has to ponder the choice of suiting up himself, reactivating Alan Houston, or playing Chris Smith.

Nepotism is bad, but it's not the end of the universe. We're talking and obsessing about the 15th man making relative peanuts because we resent the juice CAA has over our franchise, we dislike our resident psychotic SMOTY. Hey fellas, this happens to be a business, not some non-profit making water purifiers for the third world.

Connections count. It truly sucks, but it's the way things are. Move on. We are not 15 men deep. Never have been, not even back to the glory days.
I was actually young at the time, but I'm pretty sure you could bet the mortgage payment on the fact there wasn't this much attention being paid to John Warren and Luther Rackley. No matter how they managed to end up warming the pine.

We can really only attract really dumb players or players that just want a fat check and go home at night without really thinking or worrying about basketball at all.

Kevin Love would rather kill himself than play with Melo, let's not be delusional

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:at this point its far more plau·si·ble that Melo shoots us to a title then anything run by Dolan being built right

I have brought this up in a variety of ways. Look at teams like the Kings, Bucks, Bobcats, Suns, Raptors, etc who have been struggling to rebuild "the right way" for so many years. What indication do the pro-rebuild fans have that this team will be managed to any better results? It is better to use the advantage that NYC and MSG have and attract the best possible talent with a clean payroll. Having Melo and hopefully a fair amount of cap room is a much better place to be then tearing the house down for a chance to build it back up. In addition to that, more teams win by aquiring big time talent via trade and free agency then in the draft.

took the Bulls well over 10 years to do the same. At the time their drafts werent bad either, most thought guys like Jay Williams, Eddy Curry, Tyson, etc where good build around picks. Then you get bad luck and the best player available is Marcus Fizer.

I wont lie.. I once thought Melo was a part of the problem as some. If you watched at all last year he's not. This roster is total crap, zero player dev and the Chris Smith thing will honestly ruin the season. Im serious. When you award those who dont deserve it ruins the environment. Ive seen it at previous places Ive worked. It always leads to failure. Knicks are no different. When you see guys who worked their asses off for a roster spot only to see it go to a guy worth nothing it sends a clear message. Its not about effort or results. Its about creating a CAA playground.

Who's the message going to? Ike SansDiego? Some D-league tripe that no other team has bothered to pick up yet? Who worked their azz off for a roster spot that's not on the roster, who's going to impact us so significantly at the far end of the towel waving contingent? Chris Smith is parked at the far end of the bench and will likely live there unless or until Woody has to ponder the choice of suiting up himself, reactivating Alan Houston, or playing Chris Smith.

Nepotism is bad, but it's not the end of the universe. We're talking and obsessing about the 15th man making relative peanuts because we resent the juice CAA has over our franchise, we dislike our resident psychotic SMOTY. Hey fellas, this happens to be a business, not some non-profit making water purifiers for the third world.

Connections count. It truly sucks, but it's the way things are. Move on. We are not 15 men deep. Never have been, not even back to the glory days.
I was actually young at the time, but I'm pretty sure you could bet the mortgage payment on the fact there wasn't this much attention being paid to John Warren and Luther Rackley. No matter how they managed to end up warming the pine.

Its not just Chris Smith. Its what he represents. If it was Lebron's little brother great. Max him out too. But its a CAA donkee. HeeHaw. Who runs the team? Who builds the team? Rather than use the spot to possibly develop a player we use to make CAA happy. And JR SMith sucks. I hate him. Why? Because he sucks. He played just well enough to be depended on and literally shot us out of the playoffs. And now we have him for what? 4 years? Its vomitous.

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:at this point its far more plau·si·ble that Melo shoots us to a title then anything run by Dolan being built right

I have brought this up in a variety of ways. Look at teams like the Kings, Bucks, Bobcats, Suns, Raptors, etc who have been struggling to rebuild "the right way" for so many years. What indication do the pro-rebuild fans have that this team will be managed to any better results? It is better to use the advantage that NYC and MSG have and attract the best possible talent with a clean payroll. Having Melo and hopefully a fair amount of cap room is a much better place to be then tearing the house down for a chance to build it back up. In addition to that, more teams win by aquiring big time talent via trade and free agency then in the draft.

took the Bulls well over 10 years to do the same. At the time their drafts werent bad either, most thought guys like Jay Williams, Eddy Curry, Tyson, etc where good build around picks. Then you get bad luck and the best player available is Marcus Fizer.

I wont lie.. I once thought Melo was a part of the problem as some. If you watched at all last year he's not. This roster is total crap, zero player dev and the Chris Smith thing will honestly ruin the season. Im serious. When you award those who dont deserve it ruins the environment. Ive seen it at previous places Ive worked. It always leads to failure. Knicks are no different. When you see guys who worked their asses off for a roster spot only to see it go to a guy worth nothing it sends a clear message. Its not about effort or results. Its about creating a CAA playground.

Who's the message going to? Ike SansDiego? Some D-league tripe that no other team has bothered to pick up yet? Who worked their azz off for a roster spot that's not on the roster, who's going to impact us so significantly at the far end of the towel waving contingent? Chris Smith is parked at the far end of the bench and will likely live there unless or until Woody has to ponder the choice of suiting up himself, reactivating Alan Houston, or playing Chris Smith.

Nepotism is bad, but it's not the end of the universe. We're talking and obsessing about the 15th man making relative peanuts because we resent the juice CAA has over our franchise, we dislike our resident psychotic SMOTY. Hey fellas, this happens to be a business, not some non-profit making water purifiers for the third world.

Connections count. It truly sucks, but it's the way things are. Move on. We are not 15 men deep. Never have been, not even back to the glory days.
I was actually young at the time, but I'm pretty sure you could bet the mortgage payment on the fact there wasn't this much attention being paid to John Warren and Luther Rackley. No matter how they managed to end up warming the pine.

Chris Copeland, Jeremy Lin.. werent those guys on the end of the bench? They didnt help out last year? Didnt we use a roster spot on KMart late also? I seem to remember him helping as well last year...

Its not just Chris Smith. Its what he represents. If it was Lebron's little brother great. Max him out too. But its a CAA donkee. HeeHaw. Who runs the team? Who builds the team? Rather than use the spot to possibly develop a player we use to make CAA happy. And JR SMith sucks. I hate him. Why? Because he sucks. He played just well enough to be depended on and literally shot us out of the playoffs. And now we have him for what? 4 years? Its vomitous.

fish, you realize you just retyped what I posted right? Your reason for hating JSMiff could also be applied to JKidd in spades, you realize that right?

Lin? Copeland? Cope was getting burn from day one. How was he number 15? We're six games into the season. Where is Chris Smith in the box scores?
You're comparing Lin to Chris Smith? Seriously? Lin was sitting behind B-OlderthanDirt-Diddy and MikeyGrandpa. Chris Smith is in the same situation?

We're fuhucking 5 maybe 6 deep at guard. FIVE OR SIX.

He's not going to play. And whatever Dleague reject phenom you wanted to develop, would be developing better in the Dleague actually playing in games as opposed to majoring in towel waving and fist pumping off the bench for 82 games, right?

So if Lebron's little brother couldn't score or guard you, it would be okay? Selective nepotism represents something good to you?