CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You don't have to be bad to rebuild. Houston lost Yao and T-Mac but never dropped below .500.

Or I can go thru the countless teams that didn't go the Houston route..

Right; they ignored the sabermetrics and suffered. I should have clarified, if you use the right pieces of information to make your decisions, you don't have to be bad to rebuild.

Don't u think everyone wants to ink LeBron James???...Don't u think everyone wants a guy that hits 100% of his shots???At some point reality has to set in and play the hand u are dealt...I wanted to marry Hale Berry but she is taken ...Maybe I should wait until she is free??? Reality guys...

what does lebron have to do with what bonn said? The pacers don't have lebron.. they are doing just fine..

I believe the conversation was about HOuston. Morey was all in for D12 prior to the Lakers getting him. His cap clearing moves enabled him to trade for Harden and then still have the space to sign Dwight. If OKC doesn't have to trade Harden because of the new cba the Rockets don't get Howard. Lin and Asik signings could have come back to bite Morey. Lin's deal still may but Harden/Howard fixes a lot of that.

How is that, Dwight say a big reason why he came to Houston was because of Parsons..

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:D'antoni was definitely the worst move any GM could make.

Then is was upstaged by signing Amare to that ridiculous uninsured contract.

no he wasn't.. and DK pretty much detailed why amare was signed.. even with that.. it pales in comparison to the carmelo trade which IMO will go down as the worst trade in NBA, not knick. NBA history..

You're right it is your only opinion, because no sane person would agree with you. I would have let it slide if you just said Knicks history because I know you think melo has damned this franchise, but to say it's the worst trade in nba history to get one very good player (melo) and one good player (Billups) for some decent players, a scrub, and one pick is utter nonsense. In the nba it's very easy to acquire average talent, so when you give up a player like Felton, Mozgov, or even Gallinari you're really not giving up much as they are replaceable. The farther a player is above mean performance the more exponentially his value increases for a team. Max players don't produce 5x as much as players making 4 million a year, you must put a premium on talent, determining how a player's skill matches up against any mediocre replacement. This is why in the nba 3 average players are not really equal to one very good player. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, your post is flat out stupid.

tkf wrote:

Dagger wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:D'antoni was definitely the worst move any GM could make.

Then is was upstaged by signing Amare to that ridiculous uninsured contract.

no he wasn't.. and DK pretty much detailed why amare was signed.. even with that.. it pales in comparison to the carmelo trade which IMO will go down as the worst trade in NBA, not knick. NBA history..

You're right it is your only opinion, because no sane person would agree with you. I would have let it slide if you just said Knicks history because I know you think melo has damned this franchise, but to say it's the worst trade in nba history to get one very good player (melo) and one good player (Billups) for some decent players, a scrub, and one pick is utter nonsense. In the nba it's very easy to acquire average talent, so when you give up a player like Felton, Mozgov, or even Gallinari you're really not giving up much as they are replaceable. The farther a player is above mean performance the more exponentially his value increases for a team. Max players don't produce 5x as much as players making 4 million a year, you must put a premium on talent, determining how a player's skill matches up against any mediocre replacement. This is why in the nba 3 average players are not really equal to one very good player. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, your post is flat out stupid.

this trade did nothing for the knicks in terms of winning a title.. which it was intended to do.. instead it has left us with a muddled future.... I really don't care what you think of my post.. beleive it or not some people can't accept reality, therefore they label it stupid.. go figure..

most knick fans have not come to terms with what we really have in carmelo.. you included.

The key to winning a title is winning lots of games.

So Melo has been part of the solution not problem. The problem is right now they other 4 guys starting are not very good players. Most arent even starters, much less guys who are going to compete for a title

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You don't have to be bad to rebuild. Houston lost Yao and T-Mac but never dropped below .500.

Or I can go thru the countless teams that didn't go the Houston route..

Right; they ignored the sabermetrics and suffered. I should have clarified, if you use the right pieces of information to make your decisions, you don't have to be bad to rebuild.

Don't u think everyone wants to ink LeBron James???...Don't u think everyone wants a guy that hits 100% of his shots???At some point reality has to set in and play the hand u are dealt...I wanted to marry Hale Berry but she is taken ...Maybe I should wait until she is free??? Reality guys...

what does lebron have to do with what bonn said? The pacers don't have lebron.. they are doing just fine..

I believe the conversation was about HOuston. Morey was all in for D12 prior to the Lakers getting him. His cap clearing moves enabled him to trade for Harden and then still have the space to sign Dwight. If OKC doesn't have to trade Harden because of the new cba the Rockets don't get Howard. Lin and Asik signings could have come back to bite Morey. Lin's deal still may but Harden/Howard fixes a lot of that.

How is that, Dwight say a big reason why he came to Houston was because of Parsons..

You think he would have gone to HOuston without Harden? Parsons was there when he got traded to the Lakers.

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

Dagger wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:D'antoni was definitely the worst move any GM could make.

Then is was upstaged by signing Amare to that ridiculous uninsured contract.

no he wasn't.. and DK pretty much detailed why amare was signed.. even with that.. it pales in comparison to the carmelo trade which IMO will go down as the worst trade in NBA, not knick. NBA history..

You're right it is your only opinion, because no sane person would agree with you. I would have let it slide if you just said Knicks history because I know you think melo has damned this franchise, but to say it's the worst trade in nba history to get one very good player (melo) and one good player (Billups) for some decent players, a scrub, and one pick is utter nonsense. In the nba it's very easy to acquire average talent, so when you give up a player like Felton, Mozgov, or even Gallinari you're really not giving up much as they are replaceable. The farther a player is above mean performance the more exponentially his value increases for a team. Max players don't produce 5x as much as players making 4 million a year, you must put a premium on talent, determining how a player's skill matches up against any mediocre replacement. This is why in the nba 3 average players are not really equal to one very good player. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, your post is flat out stupid.

this trade did nothing for the knicks in terms of winning a title.. which it was intended to do.. instead it has left us with a muddled future.... I really don't care what you think of my post.. beleive it or not some people can't accept reality, therefore they label it stupid.. go figure..

most knick fans have not come to terms with what we really have in carmelo.. you included.

your totally wrong again amigo. Before Melo the Knicks hadnt made the playoffs for years. Then they did. They they won a playoff game. Then they won a playoff series. As the way to win a title is to win playoff games and series then since we have aquired Melo the KNicks have come much closer to winning a title.

The key to winning a title is winning lots of games.

So Melo has been part of the solution not problem. The problem is right now they other 4 guys starting are not very good players. Most arent even starters, much less guys who are going to compete for a title

the key to winning a title is winning a lot of playoff games. melo has not done much of that... in fact i believe he has the worst post-season percentage of any "star."

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

Dagger wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:D'antoni was definitely the worst move any GM could make.

Then is was upstaged by signing Amare to that ridiculous uninsured contract.

no he wasn't.. and DK pretty much detailed why amare was signed.. even with that.. it pales in comparison to the carmelo trade which IMO will go down as the worst trade in NBA, not knick. NBA history..

You're right it is your only opinion, because no sane person would agree with you. I would have let it slide if you just said Knicks history because I know you think melo has damned this franchise, but to say it's the worst trade in nba history to get one very good player (melo) and one good player (Billups) for some decent players, a scrub, and one pick is utter nonsense. In the nba it's very easy to acquire average talent, so when you give up a player like Felton, Mozgov, or even Gallinari you're really not giving up much as they are replaceable. The farther a player is above mean performance the more exponentially his value increases for a team. Max players don't produce 5x as much as players making 4 million a year, you must put a premium on talent, determining how a player's skill matches up against any mediocre replacement. This is why in the nba 3 average players are not really equal to one very good player. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, your post is flat out stupid.

this trade did nothing for the knicks in terms of winning a title.. which it was intended to do.. instead it has left us with a muddled future.... I really don't care what you think of my post.. beleive it or not some people can't accept reality, therefore they label it stupid.. go figure..

most knick fans have not come to terms with what we really have in carmelo.. you included.

your totally wrong again amigo. Before Melo the Knicks hadnt made the playoffs for years. Then they did. They they won a playoff game. Then they won a playoff series. As the way to win a title is to win playoff games and series then since we have aquired Melo the KNicks have come much closer to winning a title.

The key to winning a title is winning lots of games.

So Melo has been part of the solution not problem. The problem is right now they other 4 guys starting are not very good players. Most arent even starters, much less guys who are going to compete for a title

SO TYSON IS not a starter yet he won a title starting at center..

Carmelo has never been part of a solution, he had talent in denver and still lost..

The excuse that carmelo has no help is old.. he has been a playoff flop, he has not been help..

this trade didn't get us where we needed to be, especially for what we paid.. and before you go on talking about what we gave up wasn't much, just think, the knicks are a unhealthy tyson chandler away from handing a high lottery pick over to the nuggets... The trade didn't make sense then and it doesn't now..

if making the playoffs to get trounced by teams, younger teams, teams without so called "stars" makes you feel good.. then who am I to rain on that parade.. I just won't march in it.

this team is as close to a champion as the isiah led teams..

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You don't have to be bad to rebuild. Houston lost Yao and T-Mac but never dropped below .500.

Or I can go thru the countless teams that didn't go the Houston route..

Right; they ignored the sabermetrics and suffered. I should have clarified, if you use the right pieces of information to make your decisions, you don't have to be bad to rebuild.

Don't u think everyone wants to ink LeBron James???...Don't u think everyone wants a guy that hits 100% of his shots???At some point reality has to set in and play the hand u are dealt...I wanted to marry Hale Berry but she is taken ...Maybe I should wait until she is free??? Reality guys...

what does lebron have to do with what bonn said? The pacers don't have lebron.. they are doing just fine..

I believe the conversation was about HOuston. Morey was all in for D12 prior to the Lakers getting him. His cap clearing moves enabled him to trade for Harden and then still have the space to sign Dwight. If OKC doesn't have to trade Harden because of the new cba the Rockets don't get Howard. Lin and Asik signings could have come back to bite Morey. Lin's deal still may but Harden/Howard fixes a lot of that.

How is that, Dwight say a big reason why he came to Houston was because of Parsons..

You think he would have gone to HOuston without Harden? Parsons was there when he got traded to the Lakers.

dwight didn't want to go to the lakers, .. what does that have to do with what we talking about?

We told you during the Dwight Howard period of indecision (well, the most recent one) that Chandler Parsons was going full on college recruiting on Dwight.

It worked.

And Parsons would like a little credit for that.

Speaking with Marc Spears of Yahoo Sports Parsons laid out what he did to recruit Howard — and it was a smart strategy.

“I think I had a big impact,” Parsons said at USA Basketball’s mini-camp. “The first thing he said at the press conference was that, ‘You guys should thank Chandler Parsons because he is a big reason why I am here.’…

“I was just that guy trying to make him feel as comfortable as possible. We have very similar personalities. We are both outgoing. We’re always smiling. We like to have fun. I made him really comfortable that he was not only coming to a really good team, but a team with his friends on it.”

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

Dagger wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:D'antoni was definitely the worst move any GM could make.

Then is was upstaged by signing Amare to that ridiculous uninsured contract.

no he wasn't.. and DK pretty much detailed why amare was signed.. even with that.. it pales in comparison to the carmelo trade which IMO will go down as the worst trade in NBA, not knick. NBA history..

You're right it is your only opinion, because no sane person would agree with you. I would have let it slide if you just said Knicks history because I know you think melo has damned this franchise, but to say it's the worst trade in nba history to get one very good player (melo) and one good player (Billups) for some decent players, a scrub, and one pick is utter nonsense. In the nba it's very easy to acquire average talent, so when you give up a player like Felton, Mozgov, or even Gallinari you're really not giving up much as they are replaceable. The farther a player is above mean performance the more exponentially his value increases for a team. Max players don't produce 5x as much as players making 4 million a year, you must put a premium on talent, determining how a player's skill matches up against any mediocre replacement. This is why in the nba 3 average players are not really equal to one very good player. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, your post is flat out stupid.

this trade did nothing for the knicks in terms of winning a title.. which it was intended to do.. instead it has left us with a muddled future.... I really don't care what you think of my post.. beleive it or not some people can't accept reality, therefore they label it stupid.. go figure..

most knick fans have not come to terms with what we really have in carmelo.. you included.

your totally wrong again amigo. Before Melo the Knicks hadnt made the playoffs for years. Then they did. They they won a playoff game. Then they won a playoff series. As the way to win a title is to win playoff games and series then since we have aquired Melo the KNicks have come much closer to winning a title.

The key to winning a title is winning lots of games.

So Melo has been part of the solution not problem. The problem is right now they other 4 guys starting are not very good players. Most arent even starters, much less guys who are going to compete for a title

SO TYSON IS not a starter yet he won a title starting at center..

Carmelo has never been part of a solution, he had talent in denver and still lost..

The excuse that carmelo has no help is old.. he has been a playoff flop, he has not been help..

this trade didn't get us where we needed to be, especially for what we paid.. and before you go on talking about what we gave up wasn't much, just think, the knicks are a unhealthy tyson chandler away from handing a high lottery pick over to the nuggets... The trade didn't make sense then and it doesn't now..

if making the playoffs to get trounced by teams, younger teams, teams without so called "stars" makes you feel good.. then who am I to rain on that parade.. I just won't march in it.

this team is as close to a champion as the isiah led teams..

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

Dagger wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:D'antoni was definitely the worst move any GM could make.

Then is was upstaged by signing Amare to that ridiculous uninsured contract.

no he wasn't.. and DK pretty much detailed why amare was signed.. even with that.. it pales in comparison to the carmelo trade which IMO will go down as the worst trade in NBA, not knick. NBA history..

You're right it is your only opinion, because no sane person would agree with you. I would have let it slide if you just said Knicks history because I know you think melo has damned this franchise, but to say it's the worst trade in nba history to get one very good player (melo) and one good player (Billups) for some decent players, a scrub, and one pick is utter nonsense. In the nba it's very easy to acquire average talent, so when you give up a player like Felton, Mozgov, or even Gallinari you're really not giving up much as they are replaceable. The farther a player is above mean performance the more exponentially his value increases for a team. Max players don't produce 5x as much as players making 4 million a year, you must put a premium on talent, determining how a player's skill matches up against any mediocre replacement. This is why in the nba 3 average players are not really equal to one very good player. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, your post is flat out stupid.

this trade did nothing for the knicks in terms of winning a title.. which it was intended to do.. instead it has left us with a muddled future.... I really don't care what you think of my post.. beleive it or not some people can't accept reality, therefore they label it stupid.. go figure..

most knick fans have not come to terms with what we really have in carmelo.. you included.

your totally wrong again amigo. Before Melo the Knicks hadnt made the playoffs for years. Then they did. They they won a playoff game. Then they won a playoff series. As the way to win a title is to win playoff games and series then since we have aquired Melo the KNicks have come much closer to winning a title.

The key to winning a title is winning lots of games.

So Melo has been part of the solution not problem. The problem is right now they other 4 guys starting are not very good players. Most arent even starters, much less guys who are going to compete for a title

the key to winning a title is winning a lot of playoff games. melo has not done much of that... in fact i believe he has the worst post-season percentage of any "star."

So we should get winners here... folks who have guided teams to finals and titles. Folks like Larry Brown and Lenny Wilkins right? Maybe we should get a defensive player who knows how to win in the playoffs... a guy like Tyson Chandler. If all it takes is having been there before we should get more guys like that no? Is that what your suggesting? Kobe's won titles.. maybe trading Melo for Kobe would get us there? Would you agree with that?

i am not the owner. but if i were the owner i can tell you this: when a "big name" is out there and says he wants to play in new york, you have the team he is presently playing for by the short and curlies. but then you look at the big name's playoff record and you notice a pattern of failure and you begin to really carefully evaluate how much you are willing to give up to acquire him. the gm at the time says that players are good value at one price and bad value at another. and so i pay attention to what my gm says. maybe i pass and take my chances and wait for another opportunity to get another big name. or if i want to make a deal i drive my agenda down the other team's throat without mercy until they are forced to make a deal with me or trade the player to another team if that's what it comes down to. what i DON'T do is give up any leverage because i am inveterate spooger, climaxing when some glitteratus bats his eyelashes and flashes a smile at me.

and yes maybe i spend my money differently, maybe on another 12-14 million dollar player who has playoff moxie/credentials. and yes, maybe i re-sign a couple of my rookie contracts and patiently develop them or allow them to expand their games... and hold on to my draft picks.

dolan is the owner. he is a spooger with deep pockets and an endless supply of asses to put in seats. being the cynical coward that he is, he cowtows to the bread and circuses mentality that characterizes the new york fanbase, disinterested in building a team the city can be proud of but one he knows the majority of fans will be entertained by, win or lose. the collective IQ of the fanbase has plummeted since he took over, such that winning has been superseded by being entertained.

I have no idea what you just said. But you suggested Melo's prior failures were reason to pass. Ive given pretty solid examples of people with large bodies of success to draw upon and were rendered inept when coming here. So I guess I am saying whats the point?

Amare had a good playoff record didnt he? Who else was available? We got the best player on the market. Did Deron Williams have great playoff success?

I dont defend Melo's playoff failures. Quite the opposite. I started a thread recently showing he's failed to shoot 40% in half of his 60 something playoff games. Its a problem. He has won in the playoffs however. Its also pretty clear what he needs to suceed and the Knicks have done nothing to improve the team. In fact I would say we are worse than when Melo first came here.

i am saying you outline a plan and stick to that plan. you set different standards from what brought you to the state of failure.

your saying "what's the use" is a copout because it precludes a change of culture and having a plan and sticking to the plan-- not scrapping the plan before it has had a chance to manifest itself or reverting back to the culture that you try to change. and part of that plan is to build upon what you have, avoiding redundancies as you upgrade.

in the case of stoudemire's knicks, you pursue either a genuine orchestrator at point guard or you surround stoudemire with wing players who are playmakers or at least ball movers and defenders or who show the potential to be so. gallinari was one such player. you can't predict injury and when healthy he provides good value. chandler is a step below in these areas but he still provides solid bench play and for not a lot of money.

felton was meant to be a two-year rental on audition. if he falls short you trade him or make him a backup, which he is better-suited to... this is self-evident.

fishmike wrote:the GM was run out of town... how do we know that wasnt the plan?

we won 54 games. Who was this great PG you refer to? Who was the option? Deron Williams? Every knock folks have on Melo you can put right on DWill. The guy is sooooo overrated and Melo is a better player.

Dont just say "get a PG" or this or that. Its not fair.

i said: "you pursue either a genuine orchestrator at point guard or you surround stoudemire with wing players who are playmakers or at least ball movers and defenders or who show the potential to be so"

it's funny that all these years later Felton is still our PG