NardDogNation - "We're actually closer to $17 trillion in debt. To be perfectly honest, I'm not terribly concerned about the debt as I am about how the money is being spent. It's become apparent that many Americans have forgotten the concept of an investment. It seldom yields immediate returns; the goal, however, is for longer termed windfalls. Unfortunately for us, much of the money has been spent on wars that we didn't have to fight (to the tune of $1 billion per day), with weapons that are grossly overpriced.

Just for perspective, the B-2 stealth bomber ranges in price from anywhere between $737 million-$2.1 billion per unit. When is it that Al-Queda developed an advanced radar/surface-to-air-missle system, to even justify its use? The F-22 Raptor (though never used in combat) and another waste of a weapon, ranges in price from anywhere between $150 million-$500 million per unit. Why do we need this if our F-15's have never even been shot down in a dogfight? And all of this, and we haven't even talked about the overhead fees including maintenance of the aircrafts, training of the pilots, upkeep for the bases and their personnel, etc. Just for perspective, the operating budget for the Department of Education is only $23.4-$56.0 billion and the cost of these aircraft alone, engulfs that several fold.

Our military is a black hole. If this money were actually spent toward building our infrastructure, e.g. better funding for public schools, lowering the cost of college tuition, increased grant donations for scientific research, etc. then the debt wouldn't be so bad because we'd be seeing a return on it through the creation/expansion of industries."

I totally agree with you. Take the money out of war and put it into education, infrastructure, etc and build up our nation.

Of the $17 Trillion in debt, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have cost us $4 Trillion, and more expenses keep accumulating every day. That is a tremendous amount for 2 unnecessary wars. Add to this the tremendous loss of life and suffering and we can start to realize how terrible these wars really were/are.

Markji wrote:NardDogNation - "tell me HOW IS IT ACCEPTABLE FOR REPUBLICANS TO SHUTDOWN A GOVERNMENT."
It's not acceptable and now about 90% of the American people think this way too.

Gov't is one entity. Politics is a different entity that has transformed "Government" into anger, hate, and non-functioning chaos.

I could not agree more. I've been following this shutdown closely and people have been discouraged of the government as a whole. It seems that many are not looking at the factors and philosophy at play here. I don't know how you can walk away from this and not blame Republicans for the shutdown at the very least. I was watching the Daily Show for the first time in months yesterday and they had a clip of John Boehner admitting as much. These issues (funding of the government and Obamacare) was agreed up in July without all the formalities. Boehner then reneged on the agreement during the formal processes because he is terrified of the bat-****-crazy element of his party. This shutdown is entirely the fault of Republican leadership at the very least. I'm not sure how people can defend them in light of the facts or find their actions acceptable if there concern is truly with the American people.

Markji wrote:While I am not a Parliamentarian, this rule change really sucks. The House Majority (Republican Party) changed a standing rule in the House so only the leader of the Majority Party can bring up for a vote, the re-opening of the Gov't under the conditions delineated. Watch this.

Thanks for the clip. I had only heard about the change; never the actual proceedings that only allowed the House Speaker to bring something to a vote. Another little sneaky things Republicans did involved separating budget approval and the debt ceiling into 2 separate votes. During the Carter administration, it was all consolidated until Republicans intended to hold the government hostage whenever they didn't have superior numbers. Politics is a dirty game but those guys take it to another level. I suppose it's okay to be a douchebag if you constantly profess to love Jesus.