StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:This team wasn't fully healthy by the time we got to the playoffs. It was more about bad timing and health IMO. In addition to that I felt Woodson didn't handle the playoffs very well, in terms of how he used what he had left on the roster. The Celtic series took too long and that lead into the Pacer series which the team wasn't ready for. That's on Woody.

None of this should obscure the fact that the team has been mostly coached very well by Woodson. The team came out of the gates great. If we do the same this year with this younger roster, this team is gonna have a better record and should be stronger going into the playoffs. Yes the playoffs is more important than success in the regular season, but you can't just skip the regular season. The roster woody has this year is better in every way. He's got to maximize what he has now and in the playoffs. I actually think he will.

Every team has injuries. The Celtics were missing their best player arguable and they almost came back down 3-0. The bulls were missing a ton of their players and they were tough in the playoffs as well. To be completely honest we had some nagging injuries but but werent missing too many players. We just stunk after going up 3-0 agianst the celtics for reasons i still can figure.

Part of the problem was players wearing down which is much less publicized. JR and Tyson in particular weren't really at full strength. I think overall the Pacers had much more energy and weren't run down at all. Unlike injuries relative strength levels are hard to judge since you can't tell if a player is weak or tired until they start playing a stronger player.

Now this year this team is younger and deeper and more talented. I don't see how anyone can't see that this team is better than last years version. It simply is. I think this team learned from last year and that we'll have leaders step up and perform. I don't see this team having the same issues they did last year.

Ever team has players that have wear and tear. Again even though im a diehard kncik fan i have to be truthful. The Pacers simply played betetr at that point in time

It's not true that every team is physically the same at that point in time. The Heat, Pacers and Spurs were all physically strong at the end. The Knicks weren't a physically strong team. They had Tyson weak and under weight. JR was hurt more than we knew. Kidd was broken down. STAT wasn't at full strength. Those things put more pressure on the remaining players to do more as well.

This is why it's important that we have a deeper team this year. There's more talent, more youth and size. We're just a deeper team. Last year when STAT went down we didn't have a Bargnani or MWP on the roster. If we do keep Cole that will be an improvement over last years team as well. Having THJ is an improvement over the guards we had on the bench last year. Beno has more life in him than Kidd had. Up and down the roster you can see improvements.

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:This team wasn't fully healthy by the time we got to the playoffs. It was more about bad timing and health IMO. In addition to that I felt Woodson didn't handle the playoffs very well, in terms of how he used what he had left on the roster. The Celtic series took too long and that lead into the Pacer series which the team wasn't ready for. That's on Woody.

None of this should obscure the fact that the team has been mostly coached very well by Woodson. The team came out of the gates great. If we do the same this year with this younger roster, this team is gonna have a better record and should be stronger going into the playoffs. Yes the playoffs is more important than success in the regular season, but you can't just skip the regular season. The roster woody has this year is better in every way. He's got to maximize what he has now and in the playoffs. I actually think he will.

Every team has injuries. The Celtics were missing their best player arguable and they almost came back down 3-0. The bulls were missing a ton of their players and they were tough in the playoffs as well. To be completely honest we had some nagging injuries but but werent missing too many players. We just stunk after going up 3-0 agianst the celtics for reasons i still can figure.

Part of the problem was players wearing down which is much less publicized. JR and Tyson in particular weren't really at full strength. I think overall the Pacers had much more energy and weren't run down at all. Unlike injuries relative strength levels are hard to judge since you can't tell if a player is weak or tired until they start playing a stronger player.

Now this year this team is younger and deeper and more talented. I don't see how anyone can't see that this team is better than last years version. It simply is. I think this team learned from last year and that we'll have leaders step up and perform. I don't see this team having the same issues they did last year.

You have some of those issue already...JR isnt healthy now either, add Amare, likely add Kenyon since he isnt practicing fully either.

And thats not counting Tyler if they keep him....so those same issues remain.

We really dont even know if melo's shoulder is "healed", not just feels fine...he doesnt know either, and didnt totally give a ringing endorsment.

I wonder do we win the game that George Hill sat out due to migraines.

But either way, no one questions the teams talent or their youth at least I havent seen it..the question is whether they are BETTER.

Thats where the debate comes in, and I just dont think so.

It's not hard to win games in the regular season, momentum carries into alot of it and so does adversity such as why it seems almost every team when their coach gets canned the team instantly seems to do better.

This team could win 56 games this year and I still wont say their better if those wins are not stapled by defense.

Teams arent getting blown out in the playoffs, your playing the best of the crop every game from there on out.

Quite a few teams racked up some impressive win satreak, the league for the most part was not good....I expect more of that.

But once those playoffs start here are the questions we cannot answer right now....

1) Will Woody trust performing players to continue to do so or does he ride his "guys" even when struggling.

2) Can the offense be translated into postseason play?

3) Who will not only play their games, but actually raise their level? Waiting 3 years for Melo to do this especially, but seems the role players dont really have this issue.

4) Is the team mentally strong enough to handle adversity? Who rallies the troops?

5) When you have a team down, can this team effectively kill...or will overestimation set in again?

These are only the start, but these questions must be answered, and they will be by results.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:This team wasn't fully healthy by the time we got to the playoffs. It was more about bad timing and health IMO. In addition to that I felt Woodson didn't handle the playoffs very well, in terms of how he used what he had left on the roster. The Celtic series took too long and that lead into the Pacer series which the team wasn't ready for. That's on Woody.

None of this should obscure the fact that the team has been mostly coached very well by Woodson. The team came out of the gates great. If we do the same this year with this younger roster, this team is gonna have a better record and should be stronger going into the playoffs. Yes the playoffs is more important than success in the regular season, but you can't just skip the regular season. The roster woody has this year is better in every way. He's got to maximize what he has now and in the playoffs. I actually think he will.

Every team has injuries. The Celtics were missing their best player arguable and they almost came back down 3-0. The bulls were missing a ton of their players and they were tough in the playoffs as well. To be completely honest we had some nagging injuries but but werent missing too many players. We just stunk after going up 3-0 agianst the celtics for reasons i still can figure.

Part of the problem was players wearing down which is much less publicized. JR and Tyson in particular weren't really at full strength. I think overall the Pacers had much more energy and weren't run down at all. Unlike injuries relative strength levels are hard to judge since you can't tell if a player is weak or tired until they start playing a stronger player.

Now this year this team is younger and deeper and more talented. I don't see how anyone can't see that this team is better than last years version. It simply is. I think this team learned from last year and that we'll have leaders step up and perform. I don't see this team having the same issues they did last year.

Ever team has players that have wear and tear. Again even though im a diehard kncik fan i have to be truthful. The Pacers simply played betetr at that point in time

It's not true that every team is physically the same at that point in time. The Heat, Pacers and Spurs were all physically strong at the end. The Knicks weren't a physically strong team. They had Tyson weak and under weight. JR was hurt more than we knew. Kidd was broken down. STAT wasn't at full strength. Those things put more pressure on the remaining players to do more as well.

This is why it's important that we have a deeper team this year. There's more talent, more youth and size. We're just a deeper team. Last year when STAT went down we didn't have a Bargnani or MWP on the roster. If we do keep Cole that will be an improvement over last years team as well. Having THJ is an improvement over the guards we had on the bench last year. Beno has more life in him than Kidd had. Up and down the roster you can see improvements.

Miami's second best player was hurt pretty much the whole year....Indy never even had theirs, but did get great results in his absence, and the Spurs are old in the core, and had to offset a very old playing Manu who gave literally nothing.

Yes JR was hurt, we knew of his knee issue just not the extent, but it didnt seem to affect him during the first THREE games against Boston...he played well in those...right up til the elbow...then the partying..then the struggling.

Woody weened himself off Kidd as the games went on, which was pretty good for him...Stat has only had one healthy playoff game...game 1 VS Boston in 2011...i seriously dont count him anymore.

But the thing that I think you do fail to miss...the team was deep last year as well....every missing piece had someone step up in their absence.

Melo took on Amare actual position and played his game and Amare's in one.

Cope became a vital piece, as was Kenyon fresh off the couch to offset Tysons injury and missed action....playing center for a nice chunk.

Pablo essentially replaced Kidd....literally from being a starter to his defense and ability to knock down threes.

Without going further, no one can expect a team to have 15 healthy bodies, this isnt 2k.

But the team overall when someone went down...someone rose up.

And thats not including the vast amount of leadership a mentoring those old cats were able to do.

But never mention your neighbor down the street works at the same job you do and the same shift....and doesnt charge you gas.

Yes the Knicks had injuries, but when guys step up in their absence...you cant rely on the excuse anymore....thats what depth is for it covers that.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:the aspect of the season i am looking forward to is seeing who "steps up" as a leader on the court and in the locker room when the team faces adversity. i think there will be a lot of adversity because there is almost universal agreement that, while the knicks stood pat for the most part and made lateral moves, three other teams improved in the conference.

3 games vs. the bulls

3 games vs. the pacers

4 games vs. the nets

and then there's the heat who seem to have discovered sandbagging during the regular season, whom the knicks face 4 times.

maybe there's a knick player who will emerge as the leader and will hold the team together but i just don't see it. too much systemic sickness and pending contract issues at msg for that to happen.

How can you predict adversity? I also don't agree that the Knicks stood pat. They actually improved the talent on this team over last years team. They got younger and more talented. Just how that will translate against the improved East is hard to say until we see them play. I will say that last year we really didn't see the Knicks fully max out since we had injuries and lost players. Hopefully with a younger and deeper roster we can see this team stay strong the entire season and thru the playoffs.

sadly, "younger" and "more talented" have no bearing on "chemistry" and "teamwork." felton is penciled in as quarterback already and that's just sad. neither melo nor bargnani are known for their playmaking-- and the numbers back this up in spades-- yet you somehow think the knicks are improved. in my opinion, all things considered the knicks will be lucky to capture 3rd seed with 50 wins. if they get anything less than 3rd seed then a first round exit is likely. you want to face a 6th seed in the first round if your the knicks since the dropoff is likely to be substantial... as it has been since the league became the bloated, diluted mess it has become under stern's misguided, "entertainment-centric" stewardship.

http://knicksnow.com/videos/3962/thurs-training-camp-shumpert-on-his-shoulder-energy-in-the-gym#.Uk2whz-gvcw

smackeddog wrote:Shump said the level of professionalism has picked up this year- more players are coming in early for extra work, people are working harder etc- good, good! Unfortunately he's hurt his shoulder- hope it isn't torn!

http://knicksnow.com/videos/3962/thurs-training-camp-shumpert-on-his-shoulder-energy-in-the-gym#.Uk2whz-gvcw

Definitely dont need to go into the season already banged up....oh wait, we are.

None of these dudes have leadership attributes..they may think it, but they don't have it..

knicks1248 wrote:MWP a Leader... the same dude that elbowed Harden almost given him a concussion..thats the dude you want leading your team..he's already talking about bring ny knicks 90's style back..they suspend you a game for breathing to hard on a player..

None of these dudes have leadership attributes..they may think it, but they don't have it..

MWP said NOT TO play physical like the 90's, but rather to play smart, Intelligent BB. I think he has moments of crazy, but in between those moments he is a good teammate. Having a temper doesn't mean you aren't able to help your teammates most other times. We have a team full of flawed players, but talented players. On this team Leaders will emerge from some of the maturing players too, like Shump and Felton. Woody is really the leader on this team anyway. We just need the players to execute the right plays at the right times. We have good PG's who can make sure that happens.

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:what little leadership we can expect from the players and the coaching staff is going to be mightily challenged with the front office shenanigans that have just gone down , with carmelo anthony's contract swirling like a black hole at the center of the knick galaxy.

there is no separation from the head of the fish and the rest of the body, it is one contiguous body. the fish rots from the head down. it is fruitless and vain to expect the players to not feel influenced and adversely affected.

Unless they make changes to the core of the roster I don't expect any of Dolan's crap will have an impact on the way this team plays this year. It's hard to make a case that switching in Mills for Grunwald has any effect on the day to day play of the team. There is in fact separation from Management and the Players on the court. Woodson has the greatest impact on what the players do.

the past is prelude to the present. few can recall how miserable the nuggets were the last time melo's contract was up because knick fans were all caught up in the rumor mill and the palace intrigue and what not. to expect a completely different set of behaviors when the scenario is pretty much the same ****, different year, is really naive.

I think your off base on this one. The situation isn't the same. Melo isn't voicing that he wants to go anywhere else. He's happy here. They've given him everything he wants so why would there be any drama?

This is a good team with a chance to go deep into the playoffs. There's almost nothing similar between the 2 situations. This team is going to be focused on this season.

WHICH is really sad.. because at least in Denver, there was an end to that mess(him leaving) which led to that team being able to heal itself. they were a 57 win team last year... they are finally recovering.... this problem will linger, and if he stays, jeez, I see nothing great for this team in the near future..

Not sure that Denver is recovering. They lost in the first round, fired their coach and their gm left. Iguodala left for nothing and they traded their best center for Darrell Arthur. They also traded their first round pick for the 46th pick in the draft. Gallinari is out until at least December and there is a mandate for the first time head coach to play Javalle McGee. Doesn't sound like a healing process. It sounds like a franchise that is in turmoil to me.

Denver will be closer to not making the playoffs than getting back to 57 wins.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:MWP a Leader... the same dude that elbowed Harden almost given him a concussion..thats the dude you want leading your team..he's already talking about bring ny knicks 90's style back..they suspend you a game for breathing to hard on a player..

None of these dudes have leadership attributes..they may think it, but they don't have it..

MWP said NOT TO play physical like the 90's, but rather to play smart, Intelligent BB. I think he has moments of crazy, but in between those moments he is a good teammate. Having a temper doesn't mean you aren't able to help your teammates most other times. We have a team full of flawed players, but talented players. On this team Leaders will emerge from some of the maturing players too, like Shump and Felton. Woody is really the leader on this team anyway. We just need the players to execute the right plays at the right times. We have good PG's who can make sure that happens.

We have some guys on this team that seem to do the dumbest sht at the worst time of the season, they earn suspensions for just doing non sense..

This is why it's important that the team actually pay heed to what MWP said about playing intelligent BB. It's why players on this team that made mistakes last year need to learn form them and not repeat those mistakes. That's pretty much what we've heard from them so far. I'm really not worried about the dumb mistakes this year. I think this team has gotten that out of their system. They paid a high price for dumb mistakes and I think this year they're all about winning.