TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Rose
4. Kobe
5. Melo

I think you pay the man cuz there are so few players that have the talent to get a great team over the top. Melo can't do it by himself. The Knicks roster is not elite. Lebron at least has other top tier players with him. We'll see what this years roster can accomplish, but I actually don't doubt that Melo will perform at a high level if his supporting cast is good enough. Just look at the 2nd and 3rd best players on the Knicks in the playoffs last year. He needs more help.

WHY DOES his supporting cast have to be good enough for him to perform at a high level?!!!! great players are supposed to perform at a high level regardless of of what their team is doing.. I am not talking about winning or losing, but performing..... That should be a given for a great player, right? again, you are making excuses.. he first needs to be help before you start talking about him needing help.. that excuse is so damn old....

Have to agree with that. His performance in the playoffs was a little underwhelming regardless of how his teammates did.

Now, had he performed like he is capable of performing, then he still would have needed help.

Great players make other great players perform at a higher level. In comparison to many of the other elite teams in the league, Melo does not play with the elite talent that other great players on great teams play with. Duncan wouldn't be quite the same without Parker and Manu, Durant without Westbrook, Lebron even without Wade, etc. Why should Melo be held to a higher standard? Because he accepted a trade prior to a lockout that limited the Knicks assets?

tkf wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't see why we would move away from Melo as if he's the reason we're not winning a title. Rarely does a title come down to one elite player. It's ALWAYS about the team. You build a team that can win a title. If we have in fact built a better team this year then I don't see how they fail so miserably that we would not re-sign Melo.

IMO you have to put things in perspective. The disappointment from not getting to the ECF's is far different than the failure to get out of the 1st round. I don't see the Knicks being a 1st rd. victim. I personally don't ascribe to the notion that this team will finish the #5 seed. I think the Knicks are one of the top tier teams in the East and as such they will be hard to beat by any 1st rd opponent. Even weak and injured it still took the Pacers 6 games to get rid of the Knicks. It seemed apparent to me that in that 6th game if we had just a little better talent around Melo he did enough to help the team win. Melo wasn't the part that let us down in that game. Just think about who the 2nd best player after Melo was and compare that to the 2nd best player on the Heat, Spurs or even Pacers.

DUDE There IS Nothing wrong with trying to find a positive spin with everything, but lets be honest..carmelo is not an elite player. He is a good volume scorer. He doesn't pass, or defend. He doesn't make anyone better...The knicks should be looking to build a team with players that actually compliment one another. you guys talk about getting rondo, well then look for two way players, ball movers, defenders, guys who can rebound.. guys who have their best years ahead of them. Carmelo is a Dinosaur.. that old jab step, fake, jab step, fake, jab step, shoot, game is old. It is prohibitive.. Hard to build around and certainly makes it hard to put players who like to move with out the ball around him..

Maybe you should focus on how can we eventually put a team together that can grow and be good for a long time..Carmelo may not stop us from getting a title, because we were never that good, but honestly he will not help us get one either.... Ok, so you say it isn't his fault.. great.. so now lets find solutions.. He isn't part of it.. and he wants mega money.. I say NO!!!!! leave CARMELO!!!

This is a ridiculous post and thread. Im not saying that we should pay Carmelo 30mm per but it would be difficult to replace him for 4 more years.

Carmelo Anthony averaged nearly 29 points per game on an eFg of .503 and took down 7 rebounds a game with a 25 PER. For his career he has averaged 25-6.3-3.0 and .48 eFG there are few players in the history of modern basketball with these numbers. Hes been a winner on every level--college and pros. Its not Carmelo's fault that we had injury after injury last year. If there was criticism of CA he made the Knicks pay too much for him at the trade so we were not able to put the appropriate pieces around him and he did not perform in the playoffs as well as the regular season but these posts are absolutely absurd nonsense with numbers supporting quite the opposite. The guy is a top 10 NBA player.

that is clearly your opinion Briggs and you have very little evidence to back that one up..

There is little proof that he is or isn't top 10, however it is general consensus that he is top 10 in most cases. But it is all opinion, you are right.

Knixkik wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Rose
4. Kobe
5. Melo

I think you pay the man cuz there are so few players that have the talent to get a great team over the top. Melo can't do it by himself. The Knicks roster is not elite. Lebron at least has other top tier players with him. We'll see what this years roster can accomplish, but I actually don't doubt that Melo will perform at a high level if his supporting cast is good enough. Just look at the 2nd and 3rd best players on the Knicks in the playoffs last year. He needs more help.

WHY DOES his supporting cast have to be good enough for him to perform at a high level?!!!! great players are supposed to perform at a high level regardless of of what their team is doing.. I am not talking about winning or losing, but performing..... That should be a given for a great player, right? again, you are making excuses.. he first needs to be help before you start talking about him needing help.. that excuse is so damn old....

Have to agree with that. His performance in the playoffs was a little underwhelming regardless of how his teammates did.

Now, had he performed like he is capable of performing, then he still would have needed help.

Great players make other great players perform at a higher level. In comparison to many of the other elite teams in the league, Melo does not play with the elite talent that other great players on great teams play with. Duncan wouldn't be quite the same without Parker and Manu, Durant without Westbrook, Lebron even without Wade, etc. Why should Melo be held to a higher standard? Because he accepted a trade prior to a lockout that limited the Knicks assets?

what great player did lebron have in cleveland? what great player did dirk have in Dallas? what great player did wade have in miami the first time around, and I mean great as in still playing great, shaq was no longer a great player....

that is a weak attempt to again make excuses for carmelo. Durant didn't have westbrook this past playoff, yet he still played GREAT.... Great players don't make other GREAT players perform at a Higher level, that is hogwash.... they can compliment each other, but GREAT players are great because they perform at a high level... no excuses..

Duncan was great before parker and manu got there, lebron was great before wade, wade before lebron....

carmelo is held to a High standard, not higher.. the problem is, he is also placed by many misguided fans in company he doesn't belong.. He gets paid max money, he wants to be the man, he refuses to play a complimentary role.. so the criticism is going to be greater when he doesn't get the job done.. All some of us are asking is for him to actually be great, then we can talk about him, not having help...... how about that?

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't see why we would move away from Melo as if he's the reason we're not winning a title. Rarely does a title come down to one elite player. It's ALWAYS about the team. You build a team that can win a title. If we have in fact built a better team this year then I don't see how they fail so miserably that we would not re-sign Melo.

IMO you have to put things in perspective. The disappointment from not getting to the ECF's is far different than the failure to get out of the 1st round. I don't see the Knicks being a 1st rd. victim. I personally don't ascribe to the notion that this team will finish the #5 seed. I think the Knicks are one of the top tier teams in the East and as such they will be hard to beat by any 1st rd opponent. Even weak and injured it still took the Pacers 6 games to get rid of the Knicks. It seemed apparent to me that in that 6th game if we had just a little better talent around Melo he did enough to help the team win. Melo wasn't the part that let us down in that game. Just think about who the 2nd best player after Melo was and compare that to the 2nd best player on the Heat, Spurs or even Pacers.

DUDE There IS Nothing wrong with trying to find a positive spin with everything, but lets be honest..carmelo is not an elite player. He is a good volume scorer. He doesn't pass, or defend. He doesn't make anyone better...The knicks should be looking to build a team with players that actually compliment one another. you guys talk about getting rondo, well then look for two way players, ball movers, defenders, guys who can rebound.. guys who have their best years ahead of them. Carmelo is a Dinosaur.. that old jab step, fake, jab step, fake, jab step, shoot, game is old. It is prohibitive.. Hard to build around and certainly makes it hard to put players who like to move with out the ball around him..

Maybe you should focus on how can we eventually put a team together that can grow and be good for a long time..Carmelo may not stop us from getting a title, because we were never that good, but honestly he will not help us get one either.... Ok, so you say it isn't his fault.. great.. so now lets find solutions.. He isn't part of it.. and he wants mega money.. I say NO!!!!! leave CARMELO!!!

This is a ridiculous post and thread. Im not saying that we should pay Carmelo 30mm per but it would be difficult to replace him for 4 more years.

Carmelo Anthony averaged nearly 29 points per game on an eFg of .503 and took down 7 rebounds a game with a 25 PER. For his career he has averaged 25-6.3-3.0 and .48 eFG there are few players in the history of modern basketball with these numbers. Hes been a winner on every level--college and pros. Its not Carmelo's fault that we had injury after injury last year. If there was criticism of CA he made the Knicks pay too much for him at the trade so we were not able to put the appropriate pieces around him and he did not perform in the playoffs as well as the regular season but these posts are absolutely absurd nonsense with numbers supporting quite the opposite. The guy is a top 10 NBA player.

that is clearly your opinion Briggs and you have very little evidence to back that one up..

There is little proof that he is or isn't top 10, however it is general consensus that he is top 10 in most cases. But it is all opinion, you are right.

Knixkik wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Rose
4. Kobe
5. Melo

I think you pay the man cuz there are so few players that have the talent to get a great team over the top. Melo can't do it by himself. The Knicks roster is not elite. Lebron at least has other top tier players with him. We'll see what this years roster can accomplish, but I actually don't doubt that Melo will perform at a high level if his supporting cast is good enough. Just look at the 2nd and 3rd best players on the Knicks in the playoffs last year. He needs more help.

WHY DOES his supporting cast have to be good enough for him to perform at a high level?!!!! great players are supposed to perform at a high level regardless of of what their team is doing.. I am not talking about winning or losing, but performing..... That should be a given for a great player, right? again, you are making excuses.. he first needs to be help before you start talking about him needing help.. that excuse is so damn old....

Have to agree with that. His performance in the playoffs was a little underwhelming regardless of how his teammates did.

Now, had he performed like he is capable of performing, then he still would have needed help.

Great players make other great players perform at a higher level. In comparison to many of the other elite teams in the league, Melo does not play with the elite talent that other great players on great teams play with. Duncan wouldn't be quite the same without Parker and Manu, Durant without Westbrook, Lebron even without Wade, etc. Why should Melo be held to a higher standard? Because he accepted a trade prior to a lockout that limited the Knicks assets?

if he wanted to play with a better group than he is saddled with he should not have forced a trade here and he should have asked for far less money to help build a winner.

he wanted money first and winning second back in 2011.

come 2014 i guess he is going to have to put his big boy pants on. i see a tremendous shyt storm on the horizon with this perennial underachiever and his stellar "supporting cast."

Knixkik wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Rose
4. Kobe
5. Melo

I think you pay the man cuz there are so few players that have the talent to get a great team over the top. Melo can't do it by himself. The Knicks roster is not elite. Lebron at least has other top tier players with him. We'll see what this years roster can accomplish, but I actually don't doubt that Melo will perform at a high level if his supporting cast is good enough. Just look at the 2nd and 3rd best players on the Knicks in the playoffs last year. He needs more help.

WHY DOES his supporting cast have to be good enough for him to perform at a high level?!!!! great players are supposed to perform at a high level regardless of of what their team is doing.. I am not talking about winning or losing, but performing..... That should be a given for a great player, right? again, you are making excuses.. he first needs to be help before you start talking about him needing help.. that excuse is so damn old....

Have to agree with that. His performance in the playoffs was a little underwhelming regardless of how his teammates did.

Now, had he performed like he is capable of performing, then he still would have needed help.

Great players make other great players perform at a higher level. In comparison to many of the other elite teams in the league, Melo does not play with the elite talent that other great players on great teams play with. Duncan wouldn't be quite the same without Parker and Manu, Durant without Westbrook, Lebron even without Wade, etc. Why should Melo be held to a higher standard? Because he accepted a trade prior to a lockout that limited the Knicks assets?

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Rose
4. Kobe
5. Melo

I think you pay the man cuz there are so few players that have the talent to get a great team over the top. Melo can't do it by himself. The Knicks roster is not elite. Lebron at least has other top tier players with him. We'll see what this years roster can accomplish, but I actually don't doubt that Melo will perform at a high level if his supporting cast is good enough. Just look at the 2nd and 3rd best players on the Knicks in the playoffs last year. He needs more help.

WHY DOES his supporting cast have to be good enough for him to perform at a high level?!!!! great players are supposed to perform at a high level regardless of of what their team is doing.. I am not talking about winning or losing, but performing..... That should be a given for a great player, right? again, you are making excuses.. he first needs to be help before you start talking about him needing help.. that excuse is so damn old....

Have to agree with that. His performance in the playoffs was a little underwhelming regardless of how his teammates did.

Now, had he performed like he is capable of performing, then he still would have needed help.

Great players make other great players perform at a higher level. In comparison to many of the other elite teams in the league, Melo does not play with the elite talent that other great players on great teams play with. Duncan wouldn't be quite the same without Parker and Manu, Durant without Westbrook, Lebron even without Wade, etc. Why should Melo be held to a higher standard? Because he accepted a trade prior to a lockout that limited the Knicks assets?

what great player did lebron have in cleveland? what great player did dirk have in Dallas? what great player did wade have in miami the first time around, and I mean great as in still playing great, shaq was no longer a great player....

that is a weak attempt to again make excuses for carmelo. Durant didn't have westbrook this past playoff, yet he still played GREAT.... Great players don't make other GREAT players perform at a Higher level, that is hogwash.... they can compliment each other, but GREAT players are great because they perform at a high level... no excuses..

Duncan was great before parker and manu got there, lebron was great before wade, wade before lebron....

carmelo is held to a High standard, not higher.. the problem is, he is also placed by many misguided fans in company he doesn't belong.. He gets paid max money, he wants to be the man, he refuses to play a complimentary role.. so the criticism is going to be greater when he doesn't get the job done.. All some of us are asking is for him to actually be great, then we can talk about him, not having help...... how about that?

See nixluva comment above. Can't compare Melo's cast to Wades, Dirk's, Lebron (who is better in miami than he was in cleveland), Durant, Duncan etc.

He played at an MVP level all season. He will never play great to you no matter what he does. If its not one thing, it will be another, simple as that.

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Rose
4. Kobe
5. Melo

I think you pay the man cuz there are so few players that have the talent to get a great team over the top. Melo can't do it by himself. The Knicks roster is not elite. Lebron at least has other top tier players with him. We'll see what this years roster can accomplish, but I actually don't doubt that Melo will perform at a high level if his supporting cast is good enough. Just look at the 2nd and 3rd best players on the Knicks in the playoffs last year. He needs more help.

WHY DOES his supporting cast have to be good enough for him to perform at a high level?!!!! great players are supposed to perform at a high level regardless of of what their team is doing.. I am not talking about winning or losing, but performing..... That should be a given for a great player, right? again, you are making excuses.. he first needs to be help before you start talking about him needing help.. that excuse is so damn old....

Have to agree with that. His performance in the playoffs was a little underwhelming regardless of how his teammates did.

Now, had he performed like he is capable of performing, then he still would have needed help.

Great players make other great players perform at a higher level. In comparison to many of the other elite teams in the league, Melo does not play with the elite talent that other great players on great teams play with. Duncan wouldn't be quite the same without Parker and Manu, Durant without Westbrook, Lebron even without Wade, etc. Why should Melo be held to a higher standard? Because he accepted a trade prior to a lockout that limited the Knicks assets?

what great player did lebron have in cleveland? what great player did dirk have in Dallas? what great player did wade have in miami the first time around, and I mean great as in still playing great, shaq was no longer a great player....

that is a weak attempt to again make excuses for carmelo. Durant didn't have westbrook this past playoff, yet he still played GREAT.... Great players don't make other GREAT players perform at a Higher level, that is hogwash.... they can compliment each other, but GREAT players are great because they perform at a high level... no excuses..

Duncan was great before parker and manu got there, lebron was great before wade, wade before lebron....

carmelo is held to a High standard, not higher.. the problem is, he is also placed by many misguided fans in company he doesn't belong.. He gets paid max money, he wants to be the man, he refuses to play a complimentary role.. so the criticism is going to be greater when he doesn't get the job done.. All some of us are asking is for him to actually be great, then we can talk about him, not having help...... how about that?

I rarely agree with your assessments on Melo, but this will be the one time i fully agree.

Great players play great regardless of supporting cast and Melo should fall in line with that standard.

They ACHIEVE more with a good to great supporting cast.

The only issue I have with Melo is he hasnt made his mark in the playoffs as a Knick...in three attempts so far.

Yes he has gotten out of the first round...thats not a mark though...thats expectation.

it's almost crazy that when I think of the Knicks greatest playoff moments....no "Melo moment".

Even Starks dunked on Horace and Jordan to seal a win..

I am surprised you don't agree more because I am very consistent, my tune hasn't changed..

but yea, I agree, in the playoffs, we remember starks, Ewing, LJ, Spree, Houston, of course Bernard king was legendary in the playoffs... but no carmelo.. NONE... but honestly this has been his career.. which is why I really don't expect much.. after so many years I just don't expect the old dog to learn new tricks...this dude needs a coach and a leader on the team that will hold him accountable..someone that can lead him.. He is not a leader.. until then, this is what you get...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1649012-mri-reveals-carmelo-anthony-was-fighting-through-shoulder-tear-in-playoffs

Same injury that M.Sanchez recently suffered

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1772247-why-a-torn-labrum-leaves-mark-sanchez-with-an-impossible-decision

I have never torn my labrum but the Keeper on my Soccer team did this past year and its no joke. Swinging his arm in a walking motion caused excruciating pain. After 2 1/2 months of P.T., He decided to go ahead with surgery. Pain free now but still out for 5-6 months.

Should Melo have sat out the playoffs after he injured it against the Pacer? Maybe...but then we would be bashing him for not playing through the pain. lose/lose

Swishfm3 wrote:In my many months of lurking on this site, I find it funny that when folks bash Melo's recent playoff performance they never take into account that he had a SLAP Tear on his shoulder.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1649012-mri-reveals-carmelo-anthony-was-fighting-through-shoulder-tear-in-playoffs

Same injury that M.Sanchez recently suffered

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1772247-why-a-torn-labrum-leaves-mark-sanchez-with-an-impossible-decision

I have never torn my labrum but the Keeper on my Soccer team did this past year and its no joke. Swinging his arm in a walking motion caused excruciating pain. After 2 1/2 months of P.T., He decided to go ahead with surgery. Pain free now but still out for 5-6 months.

Should Melo have sat out the playoffs after he injured it against the Pacer? Maybe...but then we would be bashing him for not playing through the pain. lose/lose

HOW ABOUT shoot less, play some defense.. and passing the ball? if his shoulder was that jacked up why keep volume shooting?

Swishfm3 wrote:In my many months of lurking on this site, I find it funny that when folks bash Melo's recent playoff performance they never take into account that he had a SLAP Tear on his shoulder.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1649012-mri-reveals-carmelo-anthony-was-fighting-through-shoulder-tear-in-playoffs

Same injury that M.Sanchez recently suffered

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1772247-why-a-torn-labrum-leaves-mark-sanchez-with-an-impossible-decision

I have never torn my labrum but the Keeper on my Soccer team did this past year and its no joke. Swinging his arm in a walking motion caused excruciating pain. After 2 1/2 months of P.T., He decided to go ahead with surgery. Pain free now but still out for 5-6 months.

Should Melo have sat out the playoffs after he injured it against the Pacer? Maybe...but then we would be bashing him for not playing through the pain. lose/lose

Sanchez throws with that arm, Melo doesnt shoot with that arm.

I'm not saying there was nothing wrong with melo, we know it was...but he's always been a poor shooter in the playoffs as a Knick...INJURED or NOT.