nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:You realize he missed most of the past 2 seasons with minor injuries right?

Nothing to do with declining emotionally. That's a little of base no?

he has been in emotional decline since sam mitchell left the raptors. I read some articles, interesting ones in which mitchell was prohibited from really coaching bargnani hard.... the guy was coddled and protected.. over the past few years with the changes in toronto he has been like the odd man looking in....emotionally you hear he doesn't want to work hard, likes the NBA's money and fame, but not the work.. he is fragile and damaged emotionally from a professional standpoint..

What you're saying doesn't make sense. Why would Bargnani be in emotional decline if Mitchell was fired? Also if Mitchell was ordered to be hands off with Bargnani and he couldn't be tough with him, then why would Bargs be down emotionally? HOW DOES BEING CODDLED BREAK YOU EMOTIONALLY?

Everyone has their path to maturity and I think Bargnani appreciates this 2nd chance he has to get his career back on track. I think with our team and coaches AB will play much better and have a bounce back year. It's not about yelling at him or being tough so to speak. You can get players to perform without that crap. This idea that you need someone to yell and curse you just to play well is not true. Some of the most quiet and respectful coaches have won super bowls in the NFL, which is a much tougher sport.

CrushAlot wrote:

toad wrote:Once D'Antoni replaces Vogel in Indiana and he plays Granger at center, we're in business.

Bargs is usually guarded by West when he has played indy but Hibbert has a really hard time with him. West as well for that matter.

OK.

3-7FG/8PTS/0RBS
7-10FG/14PTS/2RBS
3-13FG/8PTS/2RBS
4-15/16PTS/3RBS

Can't wait til we face the Lakers.

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Woodson does a great job of motivating players as evident by our lack of long losing streaks. His offense especially in the playoffs when defenses tighten up leaves a lot to be desired. With Bargs, udrih and a healthy Amare he has no excuses this yr. No more injury excuses with 40yrs olds either. Lets see a well executed NBA offense for 82 games+

Melo doesn't need another scoring title

honestly, I think jason kidd on the bench last year had a bigger influence than most want to admit... he is no longer here, I don't think the knicks will be as good.. I have no confidence in woodson as he is a average coach at best..

His bench presence overrides the loss of 12% shooting? Really? You must have gained some insanely deep insights from your seat right behind the bench at every game.

Where the fuck do you come up with this stuff?

Vmart wrote:Nix, I like reading your post it's really admirable how you are going out on a limb for a Knicks player you are definitely living up to your moniker. What would you suggest is the proper way to use Bargs? Don't you think Raptors didn't try this?

I think that Bargs was brought to spread the floor for Melo. Which means he camps out on the three point line what makes you think that he is a good enough shooter to do this. Does the 29% and the 30% give you that much confidence in his abilities. I like you optimism, I want to be wrong about the Knicks. But here is my take how many players that have had two average to below par seasons have comeback to have great or even good seasons. Once a player starts a downward trend even if it is a results of minor injuries, it's very rare for that player to comeback to what they were if they are two years removed from their best season. Find me a player that is two years removed from his best season and goes back to that standard.

Well for one thing AB is just now turning 28, which is a players prime years. He wasn't performing poorly because he just fell off. He was hurt!!! I don't know many shooters who can shoot for a high % with an elbow and wrist injury. If you watch the videos i've posted of AB playing after the injury had healed a bit he was still stroking the ball, driving and dunking and setting picks. I don't see a player that can't do it anymore.

As for why they brought in AB it wasn't to be a 3pt shooter like Novak!!! Let's just kill that concept altogether. The thing is that AB can indeed stretch the floor, but he is also a 7'er who can post up, hit the turn around jumper, Pump fake and drive, step back and pop, PnR and PnP. Basically every offensive skill on the floor. What I expect Woody to do is use him in the best way possible, which is to get him closer to the basket more often but still use his excellent mid range jumper as well.

Last year AB Only took 8 corner 3's. The bulk of his 426 shots came inside the 3pt line. 126 of his 426 shots were 3's. If Woody gets him to lower his number of 3's and take more shot inside the 3pt line, he'll improve his efficiency and likely get to the line more. AB took 179 of his 426 shots in the range from under the basket out to the FT line. So he took a lot of shots near the basket. It's on the coach to make sure AB gets a boat load of shots close to the basket and fewer shots out at the 3pt line.

nixluva wrote:

Vmart wrote:Nix, I like reading your post it's really admirable how you are going out on a limb for a Knicks player you are definitely living up to your moniker. What would you suggest is the proper way to use Bargs? Don't you think Raptors didn't try this?

I think that Bargs was brought to spread the floor for Melo. Which means he camps out on the three point line what makes you think that he is a good enough shooter to do this. Does the 29% and the 30% give you that much confidence in his abilities. I like you optimism, I want to be wrong about the Knicks. But here is my take how many players that have had two average to below par seasons have comeback to have great or even good seasons. Once a player starts a downward trend even if it is a results of minor injuries, it's very rare for that player to comeback to what they were if they are two years removed from their best season. Find me a player that is two years removed from his best season and goes back to that standard.

Well for one thing AB is just now turning 28, which is a players prime years. He wasn't performing poorly because he just fell off. He was hurt!!! I don't know many shooters who can shoot for a high % with an elbow and wrist injury. If you watch the videos i've posted of AB playing after the injury had healed a bit he was still stroking the ball, driving and dunking and setting picks. I don't see a player that can't do it anymore.

As for why they brought in AB it wasn't to be a 3pt shooter like Novak!!! Let's just kill that concept altogether. The thing is that AB can indeed stretch the floor, but he is also a 7'er who can post up, hit the turn around jumper, Pump fake and drive, step back and pop, PnR and PnP. Basically every offensive skill on the floor. What I expect Woody to do is use him in the best way possible, which is to get him closer to the basket more often but still use his excellent mid range jumper as well.

Last year AB Only took 8 corner 3's. The bulk of his 426 shots came inside the 3pt line. 126 of his 426 shots were 3's. If Woody gets him to lower his number of 3's and take more shot inside the 3pt line, he'll improve his efficiency and likely get to the line more. AB took 179 of his 426 shots in the range from under the basket out to the FT line. So he took a lot of shots near the basket. It's on the coach to make sure AB gets a boat load of shots close to the basket and fewer shots out at the 3pt line.

Lets hope that Woody brings out the best in him and Bargs is healthy and in shape. Like I said I want to be wrong about Bargs.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:You realize he missed most of the past 2 seasons with minor injuries right?

Nothing to do with declining emotionally. That's a little of base no?

he has been in emotional decline since sam mitchell left the raptors. I read some articles, interesting ones in which mitchell was prohibited from really coaching bargnani hard.... the guy was coddled and protected.. over the past few years with the changes in toronto he has been like the odd man looking in....emotionally you hear he doesn't want to work hard, likes the NBA's money and fame, but not the work.. he is fragile and damaged emotionally from a professional standpoint..

What you're saying doesn't make sense. Why would Bargnani be in emotional decline if Mitchell was fired? Also if Mitchell was ordered to be hands off with Bargnani and he couldn't be tough with him, then why would Bargs be down emotionally? HOW DOES BEING CODDLED BREAK YOU EMOTIONALLY?

Everyone has their path to maturity and I think Bargnani appreciates this 2nd chance he has to get his career back on track. I think with our team and coaches AB will play much better and have a bounce back year. It's not about yelling at him or being tough so to speak. You can get players to perform without that crap. This idea that you need someone to yell and curse you just to play well is not true. Some of the most quiet and respectful coaches have won super bowls in the NFL, which is a much tougher sport.

I agree with Nix. Mitchell did have some success with his style and certainly was fiery but that yelling in your face style doesn't always work with some players. Mitchell's fiery style also led to an @ss beating at the hands of Vince Carter and a subsequent trade that got them little back from the Nets.

+2

there never really was any posting standards at realgm

SupremeCommander wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Vmart wrote:Nix, I like reading your post it's really admirable how you are going out on a limb for a Knicks player you are definitely living up to your moniker. What would you suggest is the proper way to use Bargs? Don't you think Raptors didn't try this?

I think that Bargs was brought to spread the floor for Melo. Which means he camps out on the three point line what makes you think that he is a good enough shooter to do this. Does the 29% and the 30% give you that much confidence in his abilities. I like you optimism, I want to be wrong about the Knicks. But here is my take how many players that have had two average to below par seasons have comeback to have great or even good seasons. Once a player starts a downward trend even if it is a results of minor injuries, it's very rare for that player to comeback to what they were if they are two years removed from their best season. Find me a player that is two years removed from his best season and goes back to that standard.

Well for one thing AB is just now turning 28, which is a players prime years. He wasn't performing poorly because he just fell off. He was hurt!!! I don't know many shooters who can shoot for a high % with an elbow and wrist injury. If you watch the videos i've posted of AB playing after the injury had healed a bit he was still stroking the ball, driving and dunking and setting picks. I don't see a player that can't do it anymore.

As for why they brought in AB it wasn't to be a 3pt shooter like Novak!!! Let's just kill that concept altogether. The thing is that AB can indeed stretch the floor, but he is also a 7'er who can post up, hit the turn around jumper, Pump fake and drive, step back and pop, PnR and PnP. Basically every offensive skill on the floor. What I expect Woody to do is use him in the best way possible, which is to get him closer to the basket more often but still use his excellent mid range jumper as well.

Last year AB Only took 8 corner 3's. The bulk of his 426 shots came inside the 3pt line. 126 of his 426 shots were 3's. If Woody gets him to lower his number of 3's and take more shot inside the 3pt line, he'll improve his efficiency and likely get to the line more. AB took 179 of his 426 shots in the range from under the basket out to the FT line. So he took a lot of shots near the basket. It's on the coach to make sure AB gets a boat load of shots close to the basket and fewer shots out at the 3pt line.

Lets hope that Woody brings out the best in him and Bargs is healthy and in shape. Like I said I want to be wrong about Bargs.

I think/hope that him being in a situation where he doesn't have to replace Chris Bosh and be a franchise savior will benefit him. He's a flawed player but he's a side dish here, not the entree

we will never win a championship if we are thinking about cooking our players for dinner

SupremeCommander wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:You realize he missed most of the past 2 seasons with minor injuries right?

Nothing to do with declining emotionally. That's a little of base no?

he has been in emotional decline since sam mitchell left the raptors. I read some articles, interesting ones in which mitchell was prohibited from really coaching bargnani hard.... the guy was coddled and protected.. over the past few years with the changes in toronto he has been like the odd man looking in....emotionally you hear he doesn't want to work hard, likes the NBA's money and fame, but not the work.. he is fragile and damaged emotionally from a professional standpoint..

What you're saying doesn't make sense. Why would Bargnani be in emotional decline if Mitchell was fired? Also if Mitchell was ordered to be hands off with Bargnani and he couldn't be tough with him, then why would Bargs be down emotionally? HOW DOES BEING CODDLED BREAK YOU EMOTIONALLY?

Everyone has their path to maturity and I think Bargnani appreciates this 2nd chance he has to get his career back on track. I think with our team and coaches AB will play much better and have a bounce back year. It's not about yelling at him or being tough so to speak. You can get players to perform without that crap. This idea that you need someone to yell and curse you just to play well is not true. Some of the most quiet and respectful coaches have won super bowls in the NFL, which is a much tougher sport.

I agree with Nix. Mitchell did have some success with his style and certainly was fiery but that yelling in your face style doesn't always work with some players. Mitchell's fiery style also led to an @ss beating at the hands of Vince Carter and a subsequent trade that got them little back from the Nets.

+2

there never really was any posting standards at realgm

LIKE you would know?

nixluva wrote:

toad wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

toad wrote:Once D'Antoni replaces Vogel in Indiana and he plays Granger at center, we're in business.

Bargs is usually guarded by West when he has played indy but Hibbert has a really hard time with him. West as well for that matter.

OK.

3-7FG/8PTS/0RBS
7-10FG/14PTS/2RBS
3-13FG/8PTS/2RBS
4-15/16PTS/3RBS

Can't wait til we face the Lakers.

It's not really proving anything posting numbers from Bargnani's worst season. We all realize that he had a bad year last year. What we'll be looking for this year is to try and maximize AB's talent and get him to have the best season of his career. That's what Woody is going to look to get out of AB.

That's cool. You can hope for Amar'e's knees to benjaminbutton their way back to superstardom as well, because that's about as likely as Bargnani becoming the difference in getting us past the second round. All I'm addressing is that he did not pose much of a threat to Vogel's defense as claimed. To post career games against D'Antoni's defense isn't really that impressive. We might as well trade whatever assets we have left for Gerald Henderson then.

tkf wrote:sure, but I guess in your face guys like brown, Pop and others should all get ass beatings because of their coaching style? I guess you advocate them getting choked like PJ carlisimo did by spree? is that what you are justifying? because bargnani has been a bust since he was drafted and sam was the last coach to get that team to the playoffs.. they brought in a coach to coddle bargnani... guess what they sucked under triano, and he is gone... coddle the player.. ruin the player...

sorry but you are way off here... Here is what happens when mitchell was able to "coach" a guy like calderon....

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/03/29/jose-calderons-rise-in-toronto-was-never-guaranteed-he-earned-it/

“There were times I purposely let Jose leave the gym guessing,” Mitchell, who was fired as Raptors coach in December 2008, recalled earlier this month. “And I wanted to see what he was going to do the next day when he came back. Was he going to curl up in a little corner and cry? Or was he going to come out and fight back? And fight harder, to show me?”

Calderon responded in a way that perhaps not even Mitchell could have imagined.

Huge difference, one had the stones to rise and respond, the other folded and needed coddling, needless to say to the detriment of his team and career..

So the lesson is that you have to have a team full of guys that need to have their heads messed with in order to win? This is such BULL. Yes you want a coach that knows how to get the most out or his players, but you don't need a coach that players want to strangle just to win games. It's not necessary. Tony Dungy wont a Super Bowl and is one of the quietest and mildest coaches ever. Besides all of Bargnani's best seasons came after Mitchell was fired. It doesn't seem all the yelling was necessary for Bargnani to play well.

I bet Woody gets more out of Bargnani than Mitchell ever did. I think it's more about respect than derision. You can demand more out of a player without degrading him or making him feel bad or scared to play relaxed. It's not like AB needs a lot of correction. Just get him under the boards more and he'll produce better numbers. If I was coaching AB i'd spend almost all of my time with him posting and rebounding and just learning the tricks of the trade on gaining position and leverage under the boards. Bring in Oakley to work with him on that kind of stuff. He won't turn into Oak, but he can get better and that's all we want.

Here i'll post something relevant to the thread.

Very happy to have AB on the team but HATE his number 77. It just looks stupid to me. Hows that gonna look in the Knicks alternate jersey? YUCK!

Bargnani should make sure to have his girl sit court side. Now that would really raise the level of play around here. Know what I mean?

Really tho, I think it's much easier to get AB to play at a higher level than some would have you think. The dude is highly skilled and 7' tall. Just get him the ball near the basket A LOT!!! It's simple. Not rocket science. If you think about it, there's no reason AB can't be like Brook Lopez in terms of production. If AB is taking higher % shots and staying closer to the basket he could get up around 50% and 7 bounds. It's not that far off. Brook doesn't take any 3's at all so it's easier for him to be around 50%.