CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:One thing that confused me about a lot of the more critical posters, was that they seemed to say that the Knicks were actually an over rated mediocre team last season that was worse than their record, but at the same time they under performed in the playoffs. Make up your minds!

Our record wasn't just due to a 10 game stretch to start the season! We were deadly during that winning streak at the end. Clocked some great wins too- beat the Spurs twice, the Thunder, The Heat 3 or 4 times.

Only thing that bothered be was the perpetual ass-whoopings by the Bulls.

Firstly a regular season loss doesnt bother me at all, only playoff losses concern me.

The 54 win team didnt show up in the playoffs....a poor offensive team and a mediocre defensive team did.

yes, they certainly posted some great regular season wins, but that means zero when the lights are brightest.

I agree, we never really showed up in the playoffs- that was a huge disappointment. I really didn't enjoy the playoffs at all, even putting away the Celtics was ruined by our 2 game collapse, and our end of game collapse.

To me injuries played a big factor. People can go "oh it's an excuse", but all of our main players were ailing.

it is folly to not incorporate as many players into the rotation as possible even if it means a few more losses during the regular season. the reason you need depth is because you cannot expect a team to remain healthy 100% of the time.

so now there are two good reasons for woodson to change the way he goes about his business. will this be the season he finally learns his lesson or is he going to continue to be an enabler and play favorites? can he be a better disciplinarian? will he insist on a balanced attack so that everyone will be prepared to contribute?

old habits are hard to break for players and coaches.

It may have been by necessity but every player on the Knicks opening night roster played significant minutes at some point in the season aside from Camby. Is there a specific player that you thought wasn't incorporated into the line up?
One of the big selling points for potential free agents looking to get the Knicks 15th spot is that the past three seasons that guy has gone onto have a big role and get a big raise the following season.

prigioni, novak, copeland

Those guys played a lot and Novak struggled last year. Novak was a disappointment but still played in 81 games and was around 20 minutes a night. Pablo was close to that as well. Cope started the year as the 15th man and still got minutes.

hmm yes they did play more minutes than i had thought. nevertheless upon research we see that with prigioni those minutes were wildly inconsistent. also playing him more and kidd less would have preserved kidd and that would have been great.

copeland the same wild inconsistency with minutes.

and with novak you have to use him more imaginatively, especially giving him screens and encouraging head and ball fakes to draw fouls.

this is what i mean by "incorporating." it means consistent minutes not minutes based on other players injuries and it means developing that player by consistent minutes, not just skills but confidence... knowing that your name will be called and not being kept guessing.

Think about the line up 10/11 man

C-Chandler
F Bargs
F Caremlo
G Shumpert
G Felton

C/PF Martin
F Amare
F Artest
G Beno U
G Hardaway(then JR when he comes back)
Pablo P

This allows Mike Woodson to give Tyson Amare Felton and K Mart less minutes to keep them fresh. There is no single reliance on offense--a team game==our PGs are fresh and if someone goes down--even Melo--we have enough to win any game

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:IF Barganani is made to play 70% in the post and out to 15 feet--i.e not sitting at the three pt line 80% of the game--I mean a 7- 255 guy who uses his skills in the post to make a good deal of high % shots/and improving his rebounding numbers--this team has a SERIOUS SERIOUS chance of winning the whole thing 1st round no way if we stay together allocate minutes/games correctly like keeping Amare to 65 games 22 minutes per----NOT relying so much on Melo--and now we DO not have to---this team comes in with 2 7 footers a star player depth all over the place --this is a semi clone for what the lakers won with 4 years ago. We can WIN the championship--th coaching is important the way we play is important and I have a lot of faith in Woodson to coach a smart year--to make sure Bargs is in the right position to play his best ball to make sure Ron Artest is out there giving 5 hard fouls to Lebron Or Paul george DEng etc.. while scoring 9-10 points...making sure JR Smith plays within th e system this team has a LOT of goods this is a serious team with a good coach.

Think about the line up 10/11 man

C-Chandler
F Bargs
F Caremlo
G Shumpert
G Felton

C/PF Martin
F Amare
F Artest
G Beno U
G Hardaway(then JR when he comes back)
Pablo P

This allows Mike Woodson to give Tyson Amare Felton and K Mart less minutes to keep them fresh. There is no single reliance on offense--a team game==our PGs are fresh and if someone goes down--even Melo--we have enough to win any game

Great post. Has me fired up. Can't wait for the season to start. I also think a lot of analysts are dropping the ball on the Knicks. Most overrated teams in the east in my opinion are nj and indy. I think they will be good but I expect the Knicks to be better. I think Chicago, Miami or the Knicks could come out of the east.

Now we're talkin! I think media and some fans are really not giving enough credit to how Woodson looks to get his bigs under the basket. Just cuz other coaches didn't use AB correctly doesn't mean Woody won't. I think Woody sees a skilled and huge 7-1 PF. That's right Andrea is 7-1 in shoes. He's got that high release on his shots and he's got skills and quickness. His pump fakes are killer. AB is too big for PF's and too quick for C's.

If AB is in the starting lineup he gives us the scoring we miss from STAT not being able to play with Melo and Tyson. I actually can't believe that so many Knicks fans don't see this important aspect of how he fits in. Also AB is a good man defender but poor help defender, but with Tyson in there he has cover cuz that's his job.

I think people just aren't opening up their minds to the improvements this team has made. Look at the Knicks bench now. It's crazy how much better it is. Plus we've got some young guys that have so serious upside. This looks like a team designed to go deep in the post season.

IronWillGiroud wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Quick question: What if Good Jr existed all season long? Seriously what would that be like?

if you can put jr in a vacuum and make him good all the time,

this is a 61 win team, ECF guaranteed taking Heat to 7 but we lose it,

the bad thing is, there is no such vacuum, and jr is always gonna be jr swagballz

what about the vacuum from spaceballs?

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:IF Barganani is made to play 70% in the post and out to 15 feet--i.e not sitting at the three pt line 80% of the game--I mean a 7- 255 guy who uses his skills in the post to make a good deal of high % shots/and improving his rebounding numbers--this team has a SERIOUS SERIOUS chance of winning the whole thing 1st round no way if we stay together allocate minutes/games correctly like keeping Amare to 65 games 22 minutes per----NOT relying so much on Melo--and now we DO not have to---this team comes in with 2 7 footers a star player depth all over the place --this is a semi clone for what the lakers won with 4 years ago. We can WIN the championship--th coaching is important the way we play is important and I have a lot of faith in Woodson to coach a smart year--to make sure Bargs is in the right position to play his best ball to make sure Ron Artest is out there giving 5 hard fouls to Lebron Or Paul george DEng etc.. while scoring 9-10 points...making sure JR Smith plays within th e system this team has a LOT of goods this is a serious team with a good coach.

Think about the line up 10/11 man

C-Chandler
F Bargs
F Caremlo
G Shumpert
G Felton

C/PF Martin
F Amare
F Artest
G Beno U
G Hardaway(then JR when he comes back)
Pablo P

This allows Mike Woodson to give Tyson Amare Felton and K Mart less minutes to keep them fresh. There is no single reliance on offense--a team game==our PGs are fresh and if someone goes down--even Melo--we have enough to win any game

Great post. Has me fired up. Can't wait for the season to start. I also think a lot of analysts are dropping the ball on the Knicks. Most overrated teams in the east in my opinion are nj and indy. I think they will be good but I expect the Knicks to be better. I think Chicago, Miami or the Knicks could come out of the east.

Now we're talkin! I think media and some fans are really not giving enough credit to how Woodson looks to get his bigs under the basket. Just cuz other coaches didn't use AB correctly doesn't mean Woody won't. I think Woody sees a skilled and huge 7-1 PF. That's right Andrea is 7-1 in shoes. He's got that high release on his shots and he's got skills and quickness. His pump fakes are killer. AB is too big for PF's and too quick for C's.

If AB is in the starting lineup he gives us the scoring we miss from STAT not being able to play with Melo and Tyson. I actually can't believe that so many Knicks fans don't see this important aspect of how he fits in. Also AB is a good man defender but poor help defender, but with Tyson in there he has cover cuz that's his job.

I think people just aren't opening up their minds to the improvements this team has made. Look at the Knicks bench now. It's crazy how much better it is. Plus we've got some young guys that have so serious upside. This looks like a team designed to go deep in the post season.

Dude please, the only deal the majority dont like is bargnani, no one really has any issues with the other players acquired.

It's ok to be hopeful, we all are, just because you have no concerns, that's fine for you.

I dont think I've seen a single post stating Bargnani cant score....it's the efficiency thats querstioned along with his will to play at a high level.

I think that a smart coach will put Bargs into position to succeed--that means a LOT less hanging out at the 3 pt line and 80% + in the post out to 14 feet. Look at his tapes from 14 feet in--look at his game logs--IF used correctly he can be a second star.

BRIGGS wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:IF Barganani is made to play 70% in the post and out to 15 feet--i.e not sitting at the three pt line 80% of the game--I mean a 7- 255 guy who uses his skills in the post to make a good deal of high % shots/and improving his rebounding numbers--this team has a SERIOUS SERIOUS chance of winning the whole thing 1st round no way if we stay together allocate minutes/games correctly like keeping Amare to 65 games 22 minutes per----NOT relying so much on Melo--and now we DO not have to---this team comes in with 2 7 footers a star player depth all over the place --this is a semi clone for what the lakers won with 4 years ago. We can WIN the championship--th coaching is important the way we play is important and I have a lot of faith in Woodson to coach a smart year--to make sure Bargs is in the right position to play his best ball to make sure Ron Artest is out there giving 5 hard fouls to Lebron Or Paul george DEng etc.. while scoring 9-10 points...making sure JR Smith plays within th e system this team has a LOT of goods this is a serious team with a good coach.

Think about the line up 10/11 man

C-Chandler
F Bargs
F Caremlo
G Shumpert
G Felton

C/PF Martin
F Amare
F Artest
G Beno U
G Hardaway(then JR when he comes back)
Pablo P

This allows Mike Woodson to give Tyson Amare Felton and K Mart less minutes to keep them fresh. There is no single reliance on offense--a team game==our PGs are fresh and if someone goes down--even Melo--we have enough to win any game

Great post. Has me fired up. Can't wait for the season to start. I also think a lot of analysts are dropping the ball on the Knicks. Most overrated teams in the east in my opinion are nj and indy. I think they will be good but I expect the Knicks to be better. I think Chicago, Miami or the Knicks could come out of the east.

Now we're talkin! I think media and some fans are really not giving enough credit to how Woodson looks to get his bigs under the basket. Just cuz other coaches didn't use AB correctly doesn't mean Woody won't. I think Woody sees a skilled and huge 7-1 PF. That's right Andrea is 7-1 in shoes. He's got that high release on his shots and he's got skills and quickness. His pump fakes are killer. AB is too big for PF's and too quick for C's.

If AB is in the starting lineup he gives us the scoring we miss from STAT not being able to play with Melo and Tyson. I actually can't believe that so many Knicks fans don't see this important aspect of how he fits in. Also AB is a good man defender but poor help defender, but with Tyson in there he has cover cuz that's his job.

I think people just aren't opening up their minds to the improvements this team has made. Look at the Knicks bench now. It's crazy how much better it is. Plus we've got some young guys that have so serious upside. This looks like a team designed to go deep in the post season.

Dude please, the only deal the majority dont like is bargnani, no one really has any issues with the other players acquired.

It's ok to be hopeful, we all are, just because you have no concerns, that's fine for you.

I dont think I've seen a single post stating Bargnani cant score....it's the efficiency thats querstioned along with his will to play at a high level.

I think that a smart coach will put Bargs into position to succeed--that means a LOT less hanging out at the 3 pt line and 80% + in the post out to 14 feet. Look at his tapes from 14 feet in--look at his game logs--IF used correctly he can be a second star.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:IF Barganani is made to play 70% in the post and out to 15 feet--i.e not sitting at the three pt line 80% of the game--I mean a 7- 255 guy who uses his skills in the post to make a good deal of high % shots/and improving his rebounding numbers--this team has a SERIOUS SERIOUS chance of winning the whole thing 1st round no way if we stay together allocate minutes/games correctly like keeping Amare to 65 games 22 minutes per----NOT relying so much on Melo--and now we DO not have to---this team comes in with 2 7 footers a star player depth all over the place --this is a semi clone for what the lakers won with 4 years ago. We can WIN the championship--th coaching is important the way we play is important and I have a lot of faith in Woodson to coach a smart year--to make sure Bargs is in the right position to play his best ball to make sure Ron Artest is out there giving 5 hard fouls to Lebron Or Paul george DEng etc.. while scoring 9-10 points...making sure JR Smith plays within th e system this team has a LOT of goods this is a serious team with a good coach.

Think about the line up 10/11 man

C-Chandler
F Bargs
F Caremlo
G Shumpert
G Felton

C/PF Martin
F Amare
F Artest
G Beno U
G Hardaway(then JR when he comes back)
Pablo P

This allows Mike Woodson to give Tyson Amare Felton and K Mart less minutes to keep them fresh. There is no single reliance on offense--a team game==our PGs are fresh and if someone goes down--even Melo--we have enough to win any game

Great post. Has me fired up. Can't wait for the season to start. I also think a lot of analysts are dropping the ball on the Knicks. Most overrated teams in the east in my opinion are nj and indy. I think they will be good but I expect the Knicks to be better. I think Chicago, Miami or the Knicks could come out of the east.

Now we're talkin! I think media and some fans are really not giving enough credit to how Woodson looks to get his bigs under the basket. Just cuz other coaches didn't use AB correctly doesn't mean Woody won't. I think Woody sees a skilled and huge 7-1 PF. That's right Andrea is 7-1 in shoes. He's got that high release on his shots and he's got skills and quickness. His pump fakes are killer. AB is too big for PF's and too quick for C's.

If AB is in the starting lineup he gives us the scoring we miss from STAT not being able to play with Melo and Tyson. I actually can't believe that so many Knicks fans don't see this important aspect of how he fits in. Also AB is a good man defender but poor help defender, but with Tyson in there he has cover cuz that's his job.

I think people just aren't opening up their minds to the improvements this team has made. Look at the Knicks bench now. It's crazy how much better it is. Plus we've got some young guys that have so serious upside. This looks like a team designed to go deep in the post season.

actually some of us have our minds open, which is why we don't see what you do... when you have an open mind you analyze the situation from both sides.... I go buy a car, I get a two door sports car.. Good car, good manufacturer, fast, nice looking.. but I have a family of 5, I also transport a lot of big items, and where I live the speed limit is 55 most places.. so guess what? that car doesn't fit what I need.. is it a bad car, no.. just not what I need....

the problem with Ab is not only is he the sports car in our situation but he is one that has been recalled..

BRIGGS wrote:IF Barganani is made to play 70% in the post and out to 15 feet--i.e not sitting at the three pt line 80% of the game--I mean a 7- 255 guy who uses his skills in the post to make a good deal of high % shots/and improving his rebounding numbers--this team has a SERIOUS SERIOUS chance of winning the whole thing 1st round no way if we stay together allocate minutes/games correctly like keeping Amare to 65 games 22 minutes per----NOT relying so much on Melo--and now we DO not have to---this team comes in with 2 7 footers a star player depth all over the place --this is a semi clone for what the lakers won with 4 years ago. We can WIN the championship--th coaching is important the way we play is important and I have a lot of faith in Woodson to coach a smart year--to make sure Bargs is in the right position to play his best ball to make sure Ron Artest is out there giving 5 hard fouls to Lebron Or Paul george DEng etc.. while scoring 9-10 points...making sure JR Smith plays within th e system this team has a LOT of goods this is a serious team with a good coach.

Think about the line up 10/11 man

C-Chandler
F Bargs
F Caremlo
G Shumpert
G Felton

C/PF Martin
F Amare
F Artest
G Beno U
G Hardaway(then JR when he comes back)
Pablo P

This allows Mike Woodson to give Tyson Amare Felton and K Mart less minutes to keep them fresh. There is no single reliance on offense--a team game==our PGs are fresh and if someone goes down--even Melo--we have enough to win any game

IMO I wouldn't start Bargs. He should be the go to guy off the bench. If Bargs isn't getting consistent touches he is going to disappear from games. I would rather run the PNR with Felton and Chandler and have Shump, Melo, Artest spread the floor with the first unit. Bargs can come in and be featured in the PNP or in the post. Chandler, Bargs, Melo should only be used for specific matchup's.