Nalod wrote:I think most fans will enjoy seeing what Bargs can do this season.

We did not give up a unless we tank in 2016 and the pick is very high.

No sense getting upset now, its three years away.

I have high expectations for this kid and hope he can stay healthy.

Hope is a funny thing. I hope AMare can get/stay healthy. This team can be good. How good? They'll be games to play!

it's that thinking that has this franchise in the mess it is in now..

As I always say.. Tomorrow is going to come...

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Melo loves volume shooting PFs who struggle in all other aspects of the game

whats the point of this comment?

you can say the same thing about this thread to be honest..

tkf, if you got nothing to add to a thread, please don't. Thanks.

of course I have something to add.. unfortunately it may not be what most want to hear..

because unlike carmelo and many others.. I don't think this was a steal at all..

I think it was another silly trade.. but honestly, wouldn't this line of conversation be regurgitating the bargs trade thread?

so really where is this going to lead? which is why I am confused why such a thread, when it pretty much leads down the same road of previous bargs threads....

so yes i will contribute, just don't want to be accused of complaining about the same thing.. my opinion hasn't changed.. unless the OP created this thread hoping some people changed their minds?

I don't know...

That was just one of your 3 to 4 daily "Martin warnings." You're adding plenty IMO.

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhh, a week off from work and the UK, and all the usual Somber Suspects are still in rare form.

Complaining about thread redundancy. Nice. From posters who created the patented "Why I hate Melo and you should too" thread spawns and the neverending, 4 year old (and counting) "The Trade ruined all our lives, and you're just too much of a Dolan minion to realize it" thread bots.

So at the risk of resurrecting redundancy:

1) Novak. --> last seen doing less than nothing in the playoffs. Last seen in a thread near you with multiple explanations about how his glaring deficiencies (both on O and D) have been solved and exploited by every team in the league that matters.

2) Camby. --> last seen not playing. Continually. For whatever reason. Spectre-like visions of past rebounds and blocks notwithstanding.

3) Draft picks --> Yawn....yeah, draft picks...right. We're the Knicks, remember?

JRodmc scours for redundant Melo threads, then redundantly repeats the redundant redundancy by redundantly repeating the redundant.

.......and the beat goes on.........

Soon we'll blame Layden for the body count in Gettysburg during the Civil War and I'll have to explain Al Bianchi was the GM then!

And the beat goes on.............

The window is closing on Melo's finger championship........"Bernard King would never have said that!!!!" cries the revisionist knick fans!

Nalod, ever the left-leaning Centrist, manages to work in both an offhand Melohate comment and an ABA/Nyet reference, all while carping about redundancy...in a thread about the AB trade. Masterful.

Next up, a thread about how subliminally "cool" black and white retro unis actually are...while working in the standard how truly stupid is Dolan, anyway? post.

misterearl wrote:Clean - in order to get, you've gotta give.

There is not a single NBA general manager who follows the "dreck for quality" that too many amateur, wanna be, fantasy leaguers subscribe to. There is no such thing as acquiring quality for spare parts and without some sacrifice... or a sharp pinch of nostalgia. Never.

Will we miss the Discount Novachexk?

Absolutely.

Will Marcis Camby always reminds some of us of the magical run of 1999? Sho' you right. Things change. Nothing stays the same. So we may as well stop pining, whining or kvetching over the past and move forward. we got over losing Spree, Oak and Walt Frazier. He'll, even Willie Mays and Hank Aaron were traded. Joe Montana played for the freakin KC Chiefs and Joe Namath played for the Rams. I can get over losing Steve Novak and some picks that are currently unknowns. You move on.

Credit Glen Grunwald for making a move to shore up our frontcourt scoring. Bargnani is an upgrade over Steve Novak.

Credit Gen Grunwald for taking a chance on Ron Artest. ("His momma named him Ron, Imma call him Ron!") Artest is a stone cold upgrade over last years early starter Ronnie Brewer.

If CJ Leslie or Jeremy Tyler proves enough to make the roster, the Answer Man considers either an upgrade over James White.

If Tim Hardaway Jr brings half the intensity of his pops we are good. He will learn the NBA game quickly because he has a godhead start.

Beno Uhrih? Be still my heart.

It is a new day and a new opportunity. Complaining about the past is more redundantly tacky than wearing white after Labor Day. Are we not men?

It is all about getting better.

I would love to find a time when the knicks got a player you didn't like.. Honestly, it is amazing how this organization can dish out the crap it does and how many fans desperately lap it up...

I gave a list of free agents, we talked about this before the knicks made any moves and I remember a poster 3g saying a lot of these guys can and will be had for cheap..

what do the knicks need? more youth, size, and a PG..

so let me ask this.. instead of sipping the bargnani juice, and believe me this guy is a soft, jump shooting useless hack! useless to us if we are trying to win a ring...

just think ryan hollins, Byron mullens, both guys making peanuts.. both guys are athletic 7 footers who can block some shots, finish around the basket, and get some boards... and one of them still holds a lot of potential in Mullens... low risk, high reward type potential... mullens would have gotten a vet min deal.. give hollins part of that TPMLE, and then you would have cash to seriously go after another PG instead of begging a guy like beno to take a vet min and play 3rd string..

Instead we are going after guys like Artest, who is DONE.. Kenyon martin.. DONE....

Trading for Bargnani was just another silly, big name move... a guy who doesn't give us what we need... but boy you guys are waxing on poetically about things this guy doesn't do consistently and ignoring the fact that he doesn't defend or rebound... both things we need...

I also find it funny how novak a fan favorite is now so expendable...

I also find it funny how camby, a guy who was supposed to give us inside help and fans justified the picks we gave up to get him, as somebody that was useless.. I mean does all of this make sense? to basically get camby, and get rid of him, we had to directly or indirectly involve almost 5 Picks?

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:It still remains that for what we gave up it's hard to get a player with the combination of size, skill and experience as AB. It's not like you can just pick up 7'ers with 3pt range for practically nothing. Novak/Camby = 0 and the picks have low value to this team. The reason those future picks are of little value is the nature of the franchise. This team doesn't build off of 2nd rd picks and the 1st rd pick isn't purely ours either. 2nd rd picks don't mean as much with the D League and Foreign leagues nowadays. Teams can find good talent without 2nd rd picks. Fans on this forum seem to overrate picks merely because of old school thinking and not properly evaluating the way teams can build today.

let me ask you a question. what would you rather have right now.. a top 10 pick next year, or bargnani?

How about, how many teams that went to the second round of the playoffs are getting top 10 picks next year?

that has nothing to do with my question.. not at all.. but the thunder had a top 12 pick this past year... you just don't know with trades, which team will be picking in the top 10.. so again, what is the relevance of this question?

So...take last year's Knicks, which were surprisingly good, and a big reason for that was the strength of their 3-point efficiency (a highly variable factor). Now subtract its best 3-point shooter (Novak) and its highly efficient shooting guard (Kidd). Then make Tyson Chandler and Amare Stoudemire each a year older (are we done calling Amare "Stat"? 'Cause now it's just kinda embarassing). Finally, sprinkle in a bit of the worst player in the NBA. These are not the ingredients of a championship. Adding a stellar-but-ancient defender who won't see a lot of playing time won't help either. You can make an argument that Kidd was a defensive liability, but he was a good rebounder and he and prigioni were the only two players that kept the ball moving in that offense. Then consider that Bargnani is a much worse defender, at a much more important position defensively, and that the Knicks don't have the types of players that can make up for it. I expect that this team is going to be about 10 wins worse than last year's team, which is probably going to get Mike Woodson fired, because management's expectations are too high.

I suppose it is possible that Woodson keeps Bargs on the bench entirely, starts Metta World Peace, and plays Melo at PF, but it won't be enough to make up for the Knicks shortcomings. And all the while we're banking on Tyson Chandler to stay healthy and play heavy minutes. It's hard to see this team beating the Bulls, the Pacers, or the Nets in a four game series, much less the Heat.

smackeddog wrote:I find it amusing that nba writers and pundits all herald Cope signing with the Pacers as a godly move, because he's a superb offensive player- doesn't matter that he can't defend or rebound- the Pacers will cover that, excellent signing, great player etc etc. But bargs is awful, he can't rebound! He can't play defense! His injury decimated year stats are somehow his entire career stats! terrible addition to the roster!

I'm sorry, but Bargs is better and more proven than Cope at this stage of their career.

I do agree that cope has holes in other aspects of his game, but what did he cost the pacers? he came pretty cheap, and didn't cost them any picks...

Bonn1997 wrote:Bargnani's bad - probably bottom 50 - but I don't quite think he's the worst player in the NBA. But there is a lot of good info. here from Berri's website, though. His bad rating is because of how far below average he is in all the nonscoring aspects of the game (especially rebounding).

So...take last year's Knicks, which were surprisingly good, and a big reason for that was the strength of their 3-point efficiency (a highly variable factor). Now subtract its best 3-point shooter (Novak) and its highly efficient shooting guard (Kidd). Then make Tyson Chandler and Amare Stoudemire each a year older (are we done calling Amare "Stat"? 'Cause now it's just kinda embarassing). Finally, sprinkle in a bit of the worst player in the NBA. These are not the ingredients of a championship. Adding a stellar-but-ancient defender who won't see a lot of playing time won't help either. You can make an argument that Kidd was a defensive liability, but he was a good rebounder and he and prigioni were the only two players that kept the ball moving in that offense. Then consider that Bargnani is a much worse defender, at a much more important position defensively, and that the Knicks don't have the types of players that can make up for it. I expect that this team is going to be about 10 wins worse than last year's team, which is probably going to get Mike Woodson fired, because management's expectations are too high.

I suppose it is possible that Woodson keeps Bargs on the bench entirely, starts Metta World Peace, and plays Melo at PF, but it won't be enough to make up for the Knicks shortcomings. And all the while we're banking on Tyson Chandler to stay healthy and play heavy minutes. It's hard to see this team beating the Bulls, the Pacers, or the Nets in a four game series, much less the Heat.

good find.. honest analysis.. except bargnani being the worst player in the NBA... I know players that are worse, but he isn't far from the bottom I guess when you factor everything in...

We all found out that all we needed in the Pacer series was a big man to bring the center for the pacers out away from the basket, problem was our coach(or management-marketing) didn't like the player who was capable of doing that(Copeland) from Newark NJ.

Neither plays awesome defense but can do what we lacked if on the court, but one is more marketable than the other.

So we go out and find another C/F who can do the same thing(who has more NBA experience) who's international flavor in Italy will sell more knicks Jerseys there and in NY. As knicks fans we must always look at the marketing plan 1ST AND FOREMOST,when it comes NYC big business mindset of James Dolan.