PG
PG/SG

SF/PF

PF/C

C

PG/SG
=========
I think these are the positions that we need to fill with 3 roster spots, which ones will be up to Grunweld and Woody to figure out
Murry or a combo guard seems to be the spot we need most, and with Murry's defensive abilities I think he will likely get a spot if he shows he can defend in training camp/preseason in addition to his ability to handle the ball

Felton/Pablo both show that they are unable to stay in front of opponents PG's and for everyone saying Nate Robinson has poor DEFENSE, he is ahead of both of our "Point Guards"
Cp3 is not as small as Nate, but he is one of the better defenders in the position, I think people just look at Robinson's height and assume he is poor defender without actually watching him play
Both players are quite under rated on DEF and do not get abused on post up's like many assume because of their height
They are both very strong, athletic, agile, and fast/quick with good hands/anticipation for steals

Pablo is better "leader" with a pass first mentality but without the ability to finish a layup or get a shot off *if the defender did want to allow him to so with a playoff contender and during a play off game because the intensity goes up, because of Pablo's lack of speed, they would be able to recover and stay close to him in a 1v1 scenario like Novak*

Legit SF
=============
we don't have a legit REAL SF, we have SG/SF's in JR, Iman, Hardway Jr, and SF/PF's in Melo/Metta/CJ Leslie

LEGIT Center
=================
with the size/strength of the bigs on Pacers, Bulls, Nets, and Cleveland, we would likely need a BIG BODY and LEGIT Center that is strong enough to contend, tire out these guys, and defend at a high level
Unfortunately, we only have the vet min salary to offer

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:any SL without Melo in it is a waste of time to post.

Woody is a player's coach despite his rhetoric about keeping guys honest and holding them accountable.

I dont think it matters, but knowing what I know about these players and this coach:
SL: Felton, Shump, Artest, Melo, Chandler
2nd unit: JR, Prigo, Bargs, Amare

Those are the nine I expect Woody to base his rotation around. Anyone else will have to earn minutes.

Lot of old guys in that rotation with tons of mileage. Opportunities will be a plenty

that is dysfunctional starting lineup. bench also dysfunctional.

You've single-handedly made this thread dysfunctional. And I already gave my starting lineup.

not in this thread you didn't. so what is it. just need five names.

Check page 1 of this thread, Dr. Freud. See the first five names with the arrow pointing to them?
You're dysfunctional when it comes to Melo and dyslexic when it comes to reading.

jrodmc wrote:I forget, did someone already end all off-season moves?
Let's set the starting line up not knowing what our roster is going to be.

Oh and in the words of the immortal Xman, Fuck Phil Jackson.

Felton, Shump, Chandler, Melo, Bargs. <--Anyone who says differently at this point is selling something.

Now coming off as the second platoon for your New York Knicks: Prigs, JR, [KMart or insert your favorite available FA/Rook 5], Amare, Metta <----if healthy, this second line could be nasty. Prigs PNR (yeah, I shoot the three now coach), Amarekeem, Metta and KMart defending? Can anyone sing the JR redemption song?

Keep Stat away from playing the 5. Those knees aren't going to stand 20 seconds of banging against the backup Hibberts of the world.

Kmart, Metta and JR on D, with Prigs making the occassional pick in the secondary, and Stat with a few, well-placed statement blocks on the opponent's second string.

Sign me up.

RonRon wrote:
Legit SF
=============
we don't have a legit REAL SF, we have SG/SF's in JR, Iman, Hardway Jr, and SF/PF's in Melo/Metta/CJ Leslie

How is Metta not a legit SF? He's played the position all his career and seems pretty prototypical to me. He may be old, but he's a legit SF.

gunsnewing wrote:I don't get how suddenly Artest if a PF next to Melo just cos he's older. Start Bargnani. Starting lineup with Artest is even more offensively challenged than last yrs

Artest on a slightly offensively challenged Defensive second unit with JR and Shump in the backcourt is something nice to think about. Especially next to Kmart and Tyson Changeling. Or some backup 5 project.

jrodmc wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I don't get how suddenly Artest if a PF next to Melo just cos he's older. Start Bargnani. Starting lineup with Artest is even more offensively challenged than last yrs

+1
Wow. we agree. Frightening. Must be the heat and humidity.

Artest on a slightly offensively challenged Defensive second unit with JR and Shump in the backcourt is something nice to think about. Especially next to Kmart and Tyson Changeling. Or some backup 5 project.

Yea but knowing Woodson he will start Artest and we will continue to fall in 15pt holes watching Melo get tripled and quadruple teamed especially in the playoffs. And hoping to get bailed out by the 2nd unit that includes the ever erratic JR Smith

Jmpasq wrote:PG- still is a giant hole. I still wonder if the Knicks kicked the tires on Darren Collison at all. For the money it seems ridiculous that we didnt make a play more him. Not only that if a trade becomes available for a PG we would have 2 low cost stopgap options to send in return

SF-Doesnt seem like he Knicks give a damn about that

Pretty well documented that Collison and CP3 are tight from playing together, so LAC was a natural fit.

SF? Artest, Melo? Leslie?

He still has HEART and gives 100% effort, but watching him try to defend players like Harden/Durant, Rudy Gay, Battum, Matt Barnes, Harrison Barnes/Klay Thompson, Wilson Chandler/Gallo/Iggy, Tyreke Evans, and Kawhi Leonard, have been NON EXISTENT

Basically guys that have the ability to hit the wide open 3pt and have the ability to put it on the floor/penetrate to the paint, exposed his lack of speed/quickness and loss of athleticism, becoming a liability in the position that requires a mobile shot blocker to help him out
It is great that we resigned Kmart because even at his age, he is one of those players that have the ability to help MWP out and Martin would be out best shot blocker on our current roster with 3 spots left

MWP is similar to Melo, they defend PF's better because one of their advantages is STRENGTH, MWP has a longer reach/arms, while Melo is quicker/faster/and much more athletic *although he can lack the heart and effort that MWP does have

The Knicks will have problems defending many teams in the East
MWP probably will be able to defend slower SF's

Heat
===========
Lebron *but who doesn't*, James Ennis if he finds PT he is a steal, Battier's shot/Cuts *although he is going to be slower at his age, he will get easy opportunities because Lebron/Wade/Bosh requires much help/attention to try to defend
I think MWP would play a similar role with Battier on to Heat but for The Knicks

Nets
========
Pierce because of Pierces age or even Joe Johnson, these 2 players I don't think MWP will have a problem with at all
But will have a problem with KG, Blatche, if they play PF, fortunately Net's weakness is speed/quickness

Pacers
=========
will have a very tough time vs Pacers (especially with Paul George/ Lance Stephenson/ Copeland/Granger *with questions about his health and physical abilities with the injury*

Chicago
==========
will have a tough time with Deng, Jimmy Butler, Mike Dunleavy, Tony Snell

Boozer/Gibson would probably be more ideal for MWP

Nikola Mirotic would be a great fit if he comes over from Europe as their "stretch F, SF/PF" that has a very good post up game and deadly 3pt shot
His lack of weight/strength is the question mark, if he would be able to adjust to the physical pace of the NBA game but he is very talented

Cleveland
==========
questionable with Earl Clark/ Alonzo Gee/ Sergey Karasev/ Tristan Thompson in addition to the speed/quickness/penetration of Irving with the size/post up abilities of Bynum/Varejo

Toronto
============

Rudy Gay and DeMar DeRozan, maybe even Amir Jonhnson and Terrence Ross

Detroit
=========
Josh Smith in addition to the size/athleticism/development of Drummond and Monroe

Orlando
===========

Tobias Harris *showed there is a pretty high ceiling as a SF/PF late last season*, Harkless, and Andrew Nicholson

In addition to the development/improvements of Victor Oladipo, Nikola Vucevic and even Doron Lamb, E'Twaun Moore, and Kyle O'Quinn, they have lots of young talents that have very good size/potential
The young veterans include Aaron Affalo, Glen Davis *if healthy*, and Jammeer Nelson

Washington
============

maybe with Martell Webster/Ariza/Glen Rice Jr/Nene in addition to the attention Wall will demand with his speed/quickness/penetration/strength/athleticism and size at PG

Bobcats
===========

They are much improved with the addition of Al Jefferson/Cody Zeller/ McRoberts/ Gereld Henderson *if resigns*/ MKG/ Jeffery Taylor/ in addition to the improvement/development of Kemba Walker's penetration/speed/quickness and if Sessions is healthy

Bucks
=============

Ilyasova/Delfino with the addition/development/improvement of the penetration of OJ Mayo/Jennings/Ridnour and Larry Sanders/John Henson

Atlanta
=============
I am not going to say they will give us trouble defensively but was really surprised with their performance last year and although they loss Josh Smith, in my opinion, they are an improved roster from last season, that is once again under the radar

they resigned Kyle Korver, with the improvements of Al Horford and Jeff Teague, with the additions Dennis Schroeder, Paul Millsap, Lucas Nogueira *young Camby mold*, and with a healthy Lou Wiliams, and the development and improvement of sharp shooters/snipers in John Jenkins and Mike Scott

They added nice role players/players with upside in Elton Brand, Shelvin Mack, DeMarre Carroll, Jared Cunningham

======================
The Eastern Conference
======================

The Eastern Conference is just much improved this year and I think they are now deeper with the development of the players in addition to the signings/trades/draft picks
These are 11 teams, add The Knicks, and that is 12 teams that have the ability to contend for a play off spot
Unlike previous years, they are no real easy wins, in the East anymore

I think all these 12 teams have the talent/potential to be playoff contenders, of course injuries can change the fate of any franchise
Even though I am probably talking about the ceiling for some of these teams with the development with some of their younger players

I agree that it is possible that we in fact could play a better style of TEAM basketball without Melo at times, just like how Lin was able to elevate the games of role players and maximize under average talents in

Lin
Iman
Fields/Novak
Jeffries/Novak
Chandler/JJ

But to take Melo out of the starting lineup is not even a possible realistic scenario, unless it is a couple of years down the line when Melo is much older
Truth is we will NOT be talented enough in the playoffs if Melo is not in the starting lineup

The myth that Melo creates better looks for team mates because he demands double/triple teams because of his scoring ability was shot down by The Pacers/Bulls last season
For us to be contenders at championship level and not just playoff contenders, Melo will actually have to learn to elevate the play of his team mates and make them better players as options
In another summer of training with Hakeem, hopefully he is able to master the foot work/coordination/quick moves to the basket with counters that would allow him to be a better all round player with the ability to create/facilitate for the team in an efficient and consistent manner

Kidd was brought here to be a "LEADER" and to earn the respect, break some of Melo's bad habits, and earn the lack of trust in his team mates, that cost us some ball movement/inability to keep role players focused with too much standing around/ISO's waiting for Melo to make a move
Kidd made Melo understand that he has to keep his team mates involved and trust his team mates, that they would give him the ball back if he gives it up first, sometimes in a better position *deeper post position* for him to score with a higher FG %
He also always looked to speed up the game, after grabbing a rebound, while NO ONE was on him, looked to push the tempo before our opponents DEFENSE were able to get set, sometimes leading to layups/wide open 3pt shots, and cause the defense to be out of position/unable to recover for mismatches

For some of the season, Melo did show that he was willing to change some his bad habits by looking to pass and move the ball around
However, we had a lack talents including multiple options in penetration and finishing abilities, inconsistent 3pt shooting to space the floor, and a lack of options on the post
When vs tough defense (championship contenders) Melo often had to go out to the 3pt line to get the ball, which limited his effectiveness/moves because there was always a shot blocker that had plenty of time to anticipate/limit some of Melo's moves to the basket
Unfortunately, during the play offs, we reverted back to ISO plays and attacking as a team with ball movement/effective PnR/good floor/ spacing with the playoff level basketball raising the defense/intensity

These intangibles will now be placed under Pablo's veteran experience and Kidd was just too much of a liability on DEFENSE and OFFENSE
While Pablo also has many of these flaws, he has a slightly better ability to penetrate in the lanes to find open cutters/laups/alley hoops *but without the ability to finish*
He does not look to push the tempo as much as Kidd does with every opportunity he gets, a reason why we failed vs The Pacer's in the play offs
Unfortunately we need both talent and leadership together with the combination of team movement/moving the ball/picks on and off the ball/ and 2 way players that are effective on both OFFENSE and DEFENSE, without more than 1/5 players on the court that are 1 dimensional players so we can be effective as a team, and not 2 or more liabilities on either combined ends

With Vogel's, Iman's, and Chandler's comments about Woodson's poor decision in rotation, adjustments, and philosophy on OFFENSE against a very strong DEFENSE in Indiana, I am hoping Woodson admit's, realizes, and adjust's/fixes the flaw's and inabilities of his lineups/ rotations/ and philosophies Woodson stubbornly stuck with

2nd unit Felton, Jr Smith,Amare,Kmart,Metta "Da Bridge" WorldPeace

TWO DEFENDERS PER UNIT.

ChuckBuck wrote:There are only a handful of 3s and 4s in this league that would give the Knicks problems so the first choice makes sense:

Felton , Shumpert, Anthony, Bargnani, Chandler