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1st Summer league game
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earthmansurfer
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7/13/2013  9:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2013  9:59 AM
I take the 2 way player (Bullock) all day over the 1 way athletic player. Bullock (from what I just read at a few different sites) is a MUCH better shooter (lights out) and a much better defender (but not an athlete). But, Hardaway Jr can create his own shot much better. My question is, how important is that on a team with Melo and JR? Maybe it is important as it takes pressure off Melo, can't argue that. But the consensus is that Bullock is a better fit for us. Another head scratcher in our draft history. We pass on a guy in Bullock who is described as a lights out shooter and very very good defender for a one way, albeit more athletic, player. I like Jr, just miffed that we passed on a consens better pick.

I will say the one BIG area of hope I have for Hardaway JR, and it is a big thing, is that in college the zone closed off his talent to a point. He will have more freedom in the NBA and he is a GREAT athlete.

Ratings:
Hardaway 9th vs Bullock 5th - http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/prospect-rankings/shooting-guards
Mock draft - Hardaway 19 vs Bullock 31 - http://www.nbadraft.net/2013mock_draft
Doesn't even list Bullock (whew) - http://asubstituteforwar.wordpress.com/2013/05/23/2013-nba-draft-talent-grades-the-shooting-guards/
That last one is interesting as Hardaway is near the top in feel for the game (but not shot). Quoted a bit below.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2013-nba-draft-top-10-shooting-guard-prospects

Some articles comparing the two:
http://meloshipofthering.com/archives/5356
just a tidbit mentioned- http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/hardaway-bullock-snell-and-ledo-part-star-studded-workout-clippers

Tim Hardaway, Jr.

Physical impact talent grade – 3 / Weak

Skill impact (Shoot, post, pass) talent grade – 5 / Average

Feel for the Game talent grade – 8 / Great

Total talent grade: 16 (Rotation player talent grade)

The NBA player offsprings rate similarly for me. Both players have an impressive feel for the game with smooth, controlled games. I rate their physical impact talent as below average as despite strong size for the position, they don’t have great speed or ballhandling. This will likely make them perimeter orientated shooters, rather than great threats attacking the basket.

The big hinging point for Hardaway and Rice’s careers is their shooting and skill impact (shoot, post, pass) Hardaway’s shooting splits at Michigan are solid, but not great. Rice at Georgia Tech shot awfully, however has had strong numbers in the D League. Thus for both players it appears their shooting could go either way. I give more credit to Rice in the area for what he’s shown in the D League. With either player, a decent 3pt shot will likely make them valuable role player talent, due to the size and feel added to it. If their 3pt shot falls apart, it’d prove my skill impact grade too high and they’d struggle to get past journeyman irrelevance talent. However likewise if more dynamic perimeter skill players than I’ve given them credit for, they have a shot at pushing themselves up to true starter status. Hardaway and Rice can be rock solid players in the NBA, though there’s also a risk they disappoint if taken too high if the shooting doesn’t come through.

1. SG Victor Oladipo (top 5)
2. SG Ben McLemore (top 10)
3. SG B.J. Young (top 20)
4. SG Jamaal Franklin (top 20) - Hmmmmmm, many here liked him.
5. SG Seth Curry (top 20) - What!
6. SG Glen Rice, Jr. (top 30)
7. SG Tim Hardaway, Jr. (top 30)
8. SG Ricardo Ledo (top 30)
9. SG Archie Goodwin (top 40)
10. SG Allen Crabbe (top 40)
11. SG Alex Abrines (top 40)
12. SG Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (top 60)
13. SG Brandon Paul (undrafted)

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
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BRIGGS
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7/13/2013  10:00 AM
Dagger wrote:Everyone likes this mcmorrow guy because he's oversized, meanwhile he stinks...not every big guy is nba material. I thought he looked pretty awful out there.

He's good for the wwe

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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7/13/2013  11:06 AM
Iman shumpert is a 2 guard. He still needs his own development at that position. Why we drafted th when he has smith and shumpert in front of him. No clue. Anyone who watched muscala play yesterday. Tell me Hardaway is a better pick. We needed a skilled big who can rebound. We took a 2g that was 2rd material. My opinion. Getting back to shumpert. He needs to go to 2g. Muddy to starting pt Hardaway to 3 Leslie to 4 and play 1 big. We have enough game and practice time to figure out who if any of the bigs can play. I think for the benefit of our draft picks. Our own player in shumpert and clearly our best nba prospect not under contract in muddy. Start those 4 and play a faster tempo. It's to cluster f with two bigs
RIP Crushalot😞
playa2
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7/13/2013  11:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2013  11:16 AM
earthmansurfer wrote:Anyone see how Bullock played for Atlanta? I noticed he was 8-15 with 3 steals. (He was picked right after Hardaway Jr and many preferred him over him.)
I hope once Hardaway Jr improves his shot selection he % goes up...

I believe I was the ONLY poster here on UK Lobbying hard for us to take Bullock at 24.

It seems to me that Knicks Brass doesn't want anybody to compete with Melo with needing the balls in their hands. First we get rid of Copeland(potential fan favorite) and now we passed on another lights out shooting rookie from a good program at North Carolina. Hmmm

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
martin
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7/13/2013  11:27 AM
playa2 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Anyone see how Bullock played for Atlanta? I noticed he was 8-15 with 3 steals. (He was picked right after Hardaway Jr and many preferred him over him.)
I hope once Hardaway Jr improves his shot selection he % goes up...

I believe I was the ONLY poster here on UK Lobbying hard for us to take Bullock at 24.

It seems to me that Knicks Brass doesn't want anybody to compete with Melo with needing the balls in their hands. First we get rid of Copeland(potential fan favorite) and now we passed on another lights out shooting rookie from a good program at North Carolina. Hmmm

we got rid of Cope? wow

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earthmansurfer
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7/13/2013  11:59 AM
martin wrote:
playa2 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Anyone see how Bullock played for Atlanta? I noticed he was 8-15 with 3 steals. (He was picked right after Hardaway Jr and many preferred him over him.)
I hope once Hardaway Jr improves his shot selection he % goes up...

I believe I was the ONLY poster here on UK Lobbying hard for us to take Bullock at 24.

It seems to me that Knicks Brass doesn't want anybody to compete with Melo with needing the balls in their hands. First we get rid of Copeland(potential fan favorite) and now we passed on another lights out shooting rookie from a good program at North Carolina. Hmmm

we got rid of Cope? wow

Well, just like Lin we didn't even make him an offer AND he was a fan favorite. I can overlook the last part but not even making an offer makes me think we didn't want him.

Good points Briggs, I really don't understand how they drafted another 2G (who isn't a great shooter). I would have been happier with Muscala also, but I'm sure he wasn't "value" there. (Remember last time we did that and took that Arizona guy over 3 or 4 pgs who all of us wanted???)

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
fishmike
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7/13/2013  12:22 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
nixluva wrote:I wouldn't say THJ took bad shots. I saw one that he shouldn't have put up at all. He was wide open and missed 2, but he could've drove on those very same shots.

SHump had some good plays and some bad, but overall I think he will eventually be much better running point.

CJ has talent, but needs to be a bit more aggressive.

Toure Murry looks pretty good as a defensive PG with a slick game, speed and finish around the basket.

Tyler is still a bit raw but you can see he has talent.

Vargas surprised me with his jumper.

McMorrow is HUGE and ready to bang. I'd consider him just off his raw size alone. GEEZ!

Agree with everything except Shump at the point, would rather we signed someone to fill that role and Shump worked on his game.

The Knicks will no doubt add another PG, but Shump is gonna have a bigger role in the rotation and it would be a big plus to have him improve his decision making and ball handling. You don't do that by not playing the point. You make him do it and get reps at game speed so he can get more comfortable. Then if he has the ball during the season he won't be scared to make a play.

Shump doesn't have to be a pure point. He needs to get good enough to be more of an asset with the ball in his hands. Someone who can make a play for others and keep the flow of the game going. It's a very smart thing to do with a guard you want to play major minutes for your team.

I play point guard and i agree decision making/ball handling is a must. Shumpert isnt bad but he doesnt have PG instincts. I like him playing the 2 where he can continue to develop his shot or drive to the basket
Were you born with those instincts or did they take time to develop?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
loweyecue
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7/13/2013  12:54 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:
martin wrote:
playa2 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Anyone see how Bullock played for Atlanta? I noticed he was 8-15 with 3 steals. (He was picked right after Hardaway Jr and many preferred him over him.)
I hope once Hardaway Jr improves his shot selection he % goes up...

I believe I was the ONLY poster here on UK Lobbying hard for us to take Bullock at 24.

It seems to me that Knicks Brass doesn't want anybody to compete with Melo with needing the balls in their hands. First we get rid of Copeland(potential fan favorite) and now we passed on another lights out shooting rookie from a good program at North Carolina. Hmmm

we got rid of Cope? wow

Well, just like Lin we didn't even make him an offer AND he was a fan favorite. I can overlook the last part but not even making an offer makes me think we didn't want him.

Good points Briggs, I really don't understand how they drafted another 2G (who isn't a great shooter). I would have been happier with Muscala also, but I'm sure he wasn't "value" there. (Remember last time we did that and took that Arizona guy over 3 or 4 pgs who all of us wanted???)

The guy said multiple times he would have taken less money to stay here, so we didn't even bother to make him an offer. How is that not letting go of him?

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
earthmansurfer
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7/13/2013  1:10 PM
loweyecue wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
martin wrote:
playa2 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Anyone see how Bullock played for Atlanta? I noticed he was 8-15 with 3 steals. (He was picked right after Hardaway Jr and many preferred him over him.)
I hope once Hardaway Jr improves his shot selection he % goes up...

I believe I was the ONLY poster here on UK Lobbying hard for us to take Bullock at 24.

It seems to me that Knicks Brass doesn't want anybody to compete with Melo with needing the balls in their hands. First we get rid of Copeland(potential fan favorite) and now we passed on another lights out shooting rookie from a good program at North Carolina. Hmmm

we got rid of Cope? wow

Well, just like Lin we didn't even make him an offer AND he was a fan favorite. I can overlook the last part but not even making an offer makes me think we didn't want him.

Good points Briggs, I really don't understand how they drafted another 2G (who isn't a great shooter). I would have been happier with Muscala also, but I'm sure he wasn't "value" there. (Remember last time we did that and took that Arizona guy over 3 or 4 pgs who all of us wanted???)

The guy said multiple times he would have taken less money to stay here, so we didn't even bother to make him an offer. How is that not letting go of him?

I truly think the other poster is on to something. As funny as it sounds, management doesn't want anyone to moderately threaten Melo. Fan favorites like Lin and Cope do that to a point, but Cope and Lin also were scorers and I just don't think management (maybe the coach) wants that from other players. This is Melos team and they just want support around him.

The first time this happened with Lin I said the same thing, now again with Cope, come on????????

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Papabear
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7/13/2013  1:59 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
martin wrote:
playa2 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Anyone see how Bullock played for Atlanta? I noticed he was 8-15 with 3 steals. (He was picked right after Hardaway Jr and many preferred him over him.)
I hope once Hardaway Jr improves his shot selection he % goes up...

I believe I was the ONLY poster here on UK Lobbying hard for us to take Bullock at 24.

It seems to me that Knicks Brass doesn't want anybody to compete with Melo with needing the balls in their hands. First we get rid of Copeland(potential fan favorite) and now we passed on another lights out shooting rookie from a good program at North Carolina. Hmmm

we got rid of Cope? wow

Well, just like Lin we didn't even make him an offer AND he was a fan favorite. I can overlook the last part but not even making an offer makes me think we didn't want him.

Good points Briggs, I really don't understand how they drafted another 2G (who isn't a great shooter). I would have been happier with Muscala also, but I'm sure he wasn't "value" there. (Remember last time we did that and took that Arizona guy over 3 or 4 pgs who all of us wanted???)

The guy said multiple times he would have taken less money to stay here, so we didn't even bother to make him an offer. How is that not letting go of him?

I truly think the other poster is on to something. As funny as it sounds, management doesn't want anyone to moderately threaten Melo. Fan favorites like Lin and Cope do that to a point, but Cope and Lin also were scorers and I just don't think management (maybe the coach) wants that from other players. This is Melos team and they just want support around him.

The first time this happened with Lin I said the same thing, now again with Cope, come on????????


Papabear Says

If that is the case then Melo dosen't really want to win a championship. He just want to shoot the ball and to hell with everything else. Screw winning just let melo get his and he will be happy. Am I correct with what you are saying?

Papabear
earthmansurfer
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7/13/2013  2:08 PM
Papabear wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
martin wrote:
playa2 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Anyone see how Bullock played for Atlanta? I noticed he was 8-15 with 3 steals. (He was picked right after Hardaway Jr and many preferred him over him.)
I hope once Hardaway Jr improves his shot selection he % goes up...

I believe I was the ONLY poster here on UK Lobbying hard for us to take Bullock at 24.

It seems to me that Knicks Brass doesn't want anybody to compete with Melo with needing the balls in their hands. First we get rid of Copeland(potential fan favorite) and now we passed on another lights out shooting rookie from a good program at North Carolina. Hmmm

we got rid of Cope? wow

Well, just like Lin we didn't even make him an offer AND he was a fan favorite. I can overlook the last part but not even making an offer makes me think we didn't want him.

Good points Briggs, I really don't understand how they drafted another 2G (who isn't a great shooter). I would have been happier with Muscala also, but I'm sure he wasn't "value" there. (Remember last time we did that and took that Arizona guy over 3 or 4 pgs who all of us wanted???)

The guy said multiple times he would have taken less money to stay here, so we didn't even bother to make him an offer. How is that not letting go of him?

I truly think the other poster is on to something. As funny as it sounds, management doesn't want anyone to moderately threaten Melo. Fan favorites like Lin and Cope do that to a point, but Cope and Lin also were scorers and I just don't think management (maybe the coach) wants that from other players. This is Melos team and they just want support around him.

The first time this happened with Lin I said the same thing, now again with Cope, come on????????


Papabear Says

If that is the case then Melo dosen't really want to win a championship. He just want to shoot the ball and to hell with everything else. Screw winning just let melo get his and he will be happy. Am I correct with what you are saying?

No, actually you are using the False Dilemma fallacy - Giving two choices when in actuality there could be more choices possible.
There are many possibilities here and more than one way to win a championship.

It is just odd the decisions this franchise makes. Letting Lin (great 2nd scoring option next to Melo) go but signing Felton (more of a backup), Kidd (retired), Camby (constantly injured), Novak (bad contract for a 1 dimensional shooter) and on and on. And what cost us more in the end and all the while they were talking poison pill? No offer made to Lin. No offer made to Cope. The list goes on of head scratchers.

We really have to start asking the question, why these stupid decisions with FA signings, trades, drafts, etc? For an organization with endless money, they sure don't show it.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Clean
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7/13/2013  2:33 PM
I just can not understand how you don't even give them an offer. If you give them the best offer you can and they turn it down for a better offer then I can say you tried your best. When you did not even give them an offer at all I can not blame the player for leaving. The player is not going to wait all summer for your offer while every other team signs people. You can tell when the Knicks really like people. They call them and give them an offer almost immediately. This was the case for JR(2 times), Novak and Prig but not the case for Cope and Lin.
nixluva
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7/13/2013  2:35 PM
Grunwald is doing what WOODY wants. Woody never really like Lin and never really like Cope. Woody has his own views on what he likes in players. Glen is simply doing what he should do for his coach. If Woody LOVED Lin there's no way they let him get away. If Woody LOVED Cope they'd do whatever they could to keep him. In other words they offer contracts right away. I have no problem with that if that is how Woody feels. Every coach has his preference for what he wants in his players.

As for Shump I think people misunderstand the importance of him working on some PG skills and his BB IQ. It's only going to help him as a player. As a PG he's handling the ball FAR more than he would as a SG. He also gets to learn the offense from a higher level since he has to know what everyone else is doing and where to hit them with the pass. Shump will gain confidence handling the ball and eventually he'll get better running the PnR, which will be a big help. This wont' hurt his ability to be a scorer. It's going to enhance that, by allowing him to be used more. Shump will get a lot of extra looks off PnR where he can drive to the hoop. This won't stop him from getting off the ball looks as a SG, it's only going to add more looks when he has the ball as a PG. NO ONE handles the ball more than a PG. THINK ABOUT THAT!

LOVE this kid Toure Murry. I think he'd be perfect for this team and i'm pulling for him to make the training camp. I love big PG's that defend. I like his size and length, smooth handle and silky driving ability. He just looks like a Knicks already.

Tyler and Vargas have some intriguing talent IMO. It's gonna be interesting to watch them in these next games. No reason we can't have these guys in camp.

People are being too hard on the THJ pick. He's got talent and I think he's gonna be good. Don't let one game put you off. CJ Leslie needs some work, but I love his talent. You can see it whenever he decides to b aggressive. It's about getting him to be in that mode more often. I think you've got to force him to be involved by calling plays for him early and often. Some players are like that. He'll float on you if you don't get him involved.

Clean
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7/13/2013  2:39 PM
nixluva wrote:Grunwald is doing what WOODY wants. Woody never really like Lin and never really like Cope. Woody has his own views on what he likes in players. Glen is simply doing what he should do for his coach. If Woody LOVED Lin there's no way they let him get away. If Woody LOVED Cope they'd do whatever they could to keep him. In other words they offer contracts right away. I have no problem with that if that is how Woody feels. Every coach has his preference for what he wants in his players.

As for Shump I think people misunderstand the importance of him working on some PG skills and his BB IQ. It's only going to help him as a player. As a PG he's handling the ball FAR more than he would as a SG. He also gets to learn the offense from a higher level since he has to know what everyone else is doing and where to hit them with the pass. Shump will gain confidence handling the ball and eventually he'll get better running the PnR, which will be a big help. This wont' hurt his ability to be a scorer. It's going to enhance that, by allowing him to be used more. Shump will get a lot of extra looks off PnR where he can drive to the hoop. This won't stop him from getting off the ball looks as a SG, it's only going to add more looks when he has the ball as a PG. NO ONE handles the ball more than a PG. THINK ABOUT THAT!

LOVE this kid Toure Murry. I think he'd be perfect for this team and i'm pulling for him to make the training camp. I love big PG's that defend. I like his size and length, smooth handle and silky driving ability. He just looks like a Knicks already.

Tyler and Vargas have some intriguing talent IMO. It's gonna be interesting to watch them in these next games. No reason we can't have these guys in camp.

People are being too hard on the THJ pick. He's got talent and I think he's gonna be good. Don't let one game put you off. CJ Leslie needs some work, but I love his talent. You can see it whenever he decides to b aggressive. It's about getting him to be in that mode more often. I think you've got to force him to be involved by calling plays for him early and often. Some players are like that. He'll float on you if you don't get him involved.

I totally agree with you about our Gm doing what WOody wants. Remember Woody wanted only VETS! We then got the oldest team in NBA history. We also know that Woody was not a fan of cope at all.

We will agree to disagree about the shump PG thing though. I will wait for more Summer League action to make a verdict on the other Summer guys.

earthmansurfer
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7/13/2013  2:46 PM
nixluva wrote:Grunwald is doing what WOODY wants. Woody never really like Lin and never really like Cope. Woody has his own views on what he likes in players. Glen is simply doing what he should do for his coach. If Woody LOVED Lin there's no way they let him get away. If Woody LOVED Cope they'd do whatever they could to keep him. In other words they offer contracts right away. I have no problem with that if that is how Woody feels. Every coach has his preference for what he wants in his players.

As for Shump I think people misunderstand the importance of him working on some PG skills and his BB IQ. It's only going to help him as a player. As a PG he's handling the ball FAR more than he would as a SG. He also gets to learn the offense from a higher level since he has to know what everyone else is doing and where to hit them with the pass. Shump will gain confidence handling the ball and eventually he'll get better running the PnR, which will be a big help. This wont' hurt his ability to be a scorer. It's going to enhance that, by allowing him to be used more. Shump will get a lot of extra looks off PnR where he can drive to the hoop. This won't stop him from getting off the ball looks as a SG, it's only going to add more looks when he has the ball as a PG. NO ONE handles the ball more than a PG. THINK ABOUT THAT!

LOVE this kid Toure Murry. I think he'd be perfect for this team and i'm pulling for him to make the training camp. I love big PG's that defend. I like his size and length, smooth handle and silky driving ability. He just looks like a Knicks already.

Tyler and Vargas have some intriguing talent IMO. It's gonna be interesting to watch them in these next games. No reason we can't have these guys in camp.

People are being too hard on the THJ pick. He's got talent and I think he's gonna be good. Don't let one game put you off. CJ Leslie needs some work, but I love his talent. You can see it whenever he decides to b aggressive. It's about getting him to be in that mode more often. I think you've got to force him to be involved by calling plays for him early and often. Some players are like that. He'll float on you if you don't get him involved.

Nice post Nixluva. Very well said about Woody. And, it is worth saying Woody is an ISO guy, so that adds credence to my and your argument as it relates to players we sign. (But damn, I just loved Lin breaking things down late in games (with intelligence too boot) and miss that on this team.)

No argument regarding Shump.

Thanks for the Toure Murry commment. I've heard others mention him as well. I really liked Mardy Collins actually and don't know what happened to him, but he defended very well, saw the floor well and for a while was turning into something and then bamm (was it the trade or Isiah hiring, I forget, he just started sucking and never came back). Goes to show you the mental aspect of the game.
I look forward to watching Toure play. Couldn't find a working link last night though.

I have hope for Tyler, I like the idea that he is very athletic and can rebound and is super young. Centers take time - might be a worthy gamble. Two year, not one year, contract.

Yeah, we are being hard on the THJr pick. I don't hate the guy, but am a bit iffy on him. Shump said it best though, he learns quick and knows how to play in a system. His bad shooting % will probably be corrected by taking better shots, really. Just wish he was a 2 way player. I liked Franklin there...

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Markji
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7/13/2013  3:12 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:
nixluva wrote:Grunwald is doing what WOODY wants. Woody never really like Lin and never really like Cope. Woody has his own views on what he likes in players. Glen is simply doing what he should do for his coach. If Woody LOVED Lin there's no way they let him get away. If Woody LOVED Cope they'd do whatever they could to keep him. In other words they offer contracts right away. I have no problem with that if that is how Woody feels. Every coach has his preference for what he wants in his players.

As for Shump I think people misunderstand the importance of him working on some PG skills and his BB IQ. It's only going to help him as a player. As a PG he's handling the ball FAR more than he would as a SG. He also gets to learn the offense from a higher level since he has to know what everyone else is doing and where to hit them with the pass. Shump will gain confidence handling the ball and eventually he'll get better running the PnR, which will be a big help. This wont' hurt his ability to be a scorer. It's going to enhance that, by allowing him to be used more. Shump will get a lot of extra looks off PnR where he can drive to the hoop. This won't stop him from getting off the ball looks as a SG, it's only going to add more looks when he has the ball as a PG. NO ONE handles the ball more than a PG. THINK ABOUT THAT!

LOVE this kid Toure Murry. I think he'd be perfect for this team and i'm pulling for him to make the training camp. I love big PG's that defend. I like his size and length, smooth handle and silky driving ability. He just looks like a Knicks already.

Tyler and Vargas have some intriguing talent IMO. It's gonna be interesting to watch them in these next games. No reason we can't have these guys in camp.

People are being too hard on the THJ pick. He's got talent and I think he's gonna be good. Don't let one game put you off. CJ Leslie needs some work, but I love his talent. You can see it whenever he decides to b aggressive. It's about getting him to be in that mode more often. I think you've got to force him to be involved by calling plays for him early and often. Some players are like that. He'll float on you if you don't get him involved.

Nice post Nixluva. Very well said about Woody. And, it is worth saying Woody is an ISO guy, so that adds credence to my and your argument as it relates to players we sign. (But damn, I just loved Lin breaking things down late in games (with intelligence too boot) and miss that on this team.)

No argument regarding Shump.

Thanks for the Toure Murry commment. I've heard others mention him as well. I really liked Mardy Collins actually and don't know what happened to him, but he defended very well, saw the floor well and for a while was turning into something and then bamm (was it the trade or Isiah hiring, I forget, he just started sucking and never came back). Goes to show you the mental aspect of the game.
I look forward to watching Toure play. Couldn't find a working link last night though.

I have hope for Tyler, I like the idea that he is very athletic and can rebound and is super young. Centers take time - might be a worthy gamble. Two year, not one year, contract.

Yeah, we are being hard on the THJr pick. I don't hate the guy, but am a bit iffy on him. Shump said it best though, he learns quick and knows how to play in a system. His bad shooting % will probably be corrected by taking better shots, really. Just wish he was a 2 way player. I liked Franklin there...


I like giving Shump some time at PG.This is Summer League. The games don't count. It is practice/scrimmage and players like Shump get to work on a part of their game they are trying to develop. It's fine to give him the experience. Otherwise there would be no reason to have shump, a starting third yr player, play in SL.

I also like Tyler. Hope we keep him. The question always is - will will be patient and give a young player time to develop?

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Clean
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7/13/2013  4:08 PM
are people forgetting shump played multiple games in the actual nba as a PG and have not learned anything new yet? Why would doing it in summer league be any different? I don't have any problem with shumps handling. The only problem I have with shump is his offensive productivity. He is not getting any better with that playing PG. I rather him learn about backdoor cuts ,curls and creating proper spacing in the positions he will actually be in during real games.

I am sorry but you are not going to become a better center by playing small forward. This is essentially what you guys are saying. If you want to improve shumps handling like some of you say. Have the coaches give him plays where the SG handles the ball a little more than normal.

nykshaknbake
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7/13/2013  4:56 PM
playa2 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Anyone see how Bullock played for Atlanta? I noticed he was 8-15 with 3 steals. (He was picked right after Hardaway Jr and many preferred him over him.)
I hope once Hardaway Jr improves his shot selection he % goes up...

I believe I was the ONLY poster here on UK Lobbying hard for us to take Bullock at 24.

It seems to me that Knicks Brass doesn't want anybody to compete with Melo with needing the balls in their hands. First we get rid of Copeland(potential fan favorite) and now we passed on another lights out shooting rookie from a good program at North Carolina. Hmmm

It's a conspiracy! Does Melo have any government connections?

RonRon
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7/13/2013  5:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2013  5:51 PM
We have 5 positions left, included CJ Leslie as a spot but it is partial guaranteed so if he doesn't show up from now to training camp, there could be 6 spots


was really impressed with what I saw with Tourey Murray, I think we need 1 PG and 1 combo guard, and he would be a combo guard we should consider


Would prefer players that we would have leverage over with TEAM OPTIONS for 2nd year if the talent is similar

Filling out the roster

Positions we need to fill
===========================

2 PG (1 combo guard), 1-2 SF/PF, 1-2 C
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 PG (penetration, ability to finish, decent facilitating skills, and speed/quickness to stay in front of opponents PG's)------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

would give the rest of the MLE for Udrih and Nate

Ben Udrih
Nate Robinson


Patty Mills
AJ Price
Mo Williams
Brian Roberts


------------------
1 Combo Guard
------------------

Darrius Morris
Tourre Murray
Dwayne Davis *right handed James Harden*
Bobby Brown


Jannero Pargo
Aaron Brooks
Roddy Beaubois
Gary Neal

Dionte Christmas


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1-2 (depending on CJ Leslie) SF/PF vet min, nomore SG/SF's we have enough of those
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MWP
James Johnson
Stephen Jackson
Shawnee Williams

-----------
1 PF/C
-----------

Kmart
BJ Mullens *would give the rest of MLE for his potential*

Tolliver
Jeffries

Jamalle Haggins


------------------
1-2 Centers
------------------

Cole Aldrich
Jerome Jordan
Jeremy Tyler
Marcus Cousins

RonRon
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7/13/2013  5:47 PM
Realistic Trades
=====================
still have Brewer's trade exemption to make a small trade for about 1m

Isiah Thomas or some of the players above might be RFA
Wish we could have kept a 2nd round pick or gotten Toronto's 2nd round pick back for Barg's trade
Also if King's manage to improve greatly, we get their 2014 2nd round pick which is top 55 protected

In trades, also would be interested in

Brandon Rush
JJ Barea/Andre Miller


Rookie's
=============

Pierre Jackson
Archie Goodwin
Nate Wolters
Isiah Cannon
Ray Mccallam
Eric Green

Mike Muscula
Justin Hamilton

And we should look to see if there is interest in Tyson Chandler from around the league and see what kind of value he has and go from there

1st Summer league game

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