3G4G wrote:I repeat

Youth

Earl Clark
Terrence Williams
Cole Aldrich
B.J. Mullens
Anthony Murrow
Dominique Jones
Austin Daye
Brandan Wright
Wesley Johnson
Chase Buddinger
DeJuan Blair
Greg Smith
Nolan Smith

Vets

Corey Brewer
Ton Allen
Andray Blatche
Marco Belli
Teen Wolf
Dorrell Wright
J.J. Redick
Nick Young
Jose Calderon
C.J. Watson
Demarre Carroll
Carlos Delfino
Shaun Livingston
Francisco Garcia
Matt Barnes
Ryan Hollins
Martell Webster

You maybe able to add Pierce to that Vets list real soon. Although, I see him going to the Clippers followed by Garnett in a trade.

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:the last thing the knicks need are more unprofessional employees or low-character employees. trouble is dolan is exactly like this: unprofessional and low-character. so he will attract these sorts of people inexorably. what compounds the issue is that dolan insists on having lackeys under him, lackeys like grunwald and woodson. it's got to be hard to do your job when you are in fear of dolan like grunwald is or in fear of carmelo anthony like woodson is. you can see the effect this has on the team.

if they are going to improve they will need to find people NOT like jr smith and NOT like michael beasley. grunwald is going to have to stand up to dolan when necessary (he did nothing about lin) and woodson is going to have to bench carmelo anthony when necessary, whether in response to bad shot selection and selfishness, or lousy defense, or general lack of conditioning. what kind of leader can you be if you cannot discipline all your players?

the culture of the franchise needs to become healthier. it's obviously not healthy right now and you don't want to alienate what quality people you happen to have, like shumpert and chandler.

Who are these players you suggest the Knicks get that will be "high character" professionals?

of the names i recognize i would look into acquiring blair. he played for popovich. austin daye has length and is young and he plays for lionel hollins.

tony allen same; he plays for hollins
marco bellinelli plays for thiboudeux
jj redick would be a good pickup for the knicks too.

You know dam well the Knicks could barely afford 1 of those players man. The Knicks cannot perform S&T's either.

As I figured, you dont have real solutions just pie in the sky fantasies.

BTW, Austin Daye is TRASH.

this is where your pal grunwald earns his paycheck. the knicks need rebounders and defenders, and guys who bring professional attitudes to the team. people who don't need phony mentoring from a lousy leader like woodson. supercool bease is just another version of smiff the whiff. pure distraction and does not defend a lick.

the knicks are in deep doodoo thanks to february 2011 and summer 2012 and if the best they can do is shyte players like beasley well we know how we got here.

More like July 2010 preluded the other deals....

started like this.....

to go to this.....

to this .....

then this....

and this...

and way too much of this....

Amare had surgery in 2005. Knicks signed him in summer of 2010. This was what was known at the time.

It’s that “when healthy” qualifier that is the problem. When Stoudemire had microfracture surgery with the Suns in 2005, doctors warned the team that the procedure had probably given Stoudemire another six or seven years. That’s why the Suns were willing to let Stoudemire go back in the summer of ’10—they didn’t want to overpay for a guy whose knee came with an expiration date.

That expiration date is past. The best thing for all involved would be for Stoudemire to walk away.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2013-03-13/amare-stoudemire-injury-update-knicks-aching-knee-cba-wont-prevent-star-breakups
Knicks signed Amare to a max deal when doctors were saying he had 1-2 years left. You can't make this stuff up. There was only 1 star on the court in the playoffs.

I was never a fan of Donnie Walsh and especially the Amar'e signing but it may have been a necessary evil since Walsh backed us into a corner. We had no other options having disregarded the draft, traded away capable players and future draft picks. When the 2010 free agent well dried up, we had no other choice but to try and build with what was left e.g. Amar'e. His clout in the league and level head made him a solid gamble albeit a bet that needed hedging. We all knew something had to be wrong with him; why else would Phoenix let an elite 29 year old PF walk in a league where championship aspirations were defined by the caliber of PF a franchise had (Mavs with Dirk, KG with Boston, Gasol with LAL, Spurs with Duncan, etc.). We needed to protect ourselves by offering him a shorter contract and/or FRONT LOADING HIS DEAL TO MAKE HIM EASIER TO OFFLOAD when his body began breaking down. Walsh being the GM did none of that, which has lead to the situation we're in now. Its why I can't understand the blind allegiance people still have for the man with hindsight now available. Moving forward, we can only learn from his, Isiah's and Layden's mistakes. There are 3 tools for building a franchise: (1)trades (2) free agency and (3) the draft. Bad GM's like we have had only use one of those tools at the expense of others. Teams like the Spurs use all 3 and is why they can build a contender without spending a fortune like we do. I think the key to us unlocking all 3 tools/maximizing them is via the draft, where we can both bring in assets to trade and players that can contribute on the cheap. All in all, it'll lower how much we spend, which should free up money to sign worthwild free agents.

you're post is filled with bias and half truths. first, if you're not a fan of walsh then you run the risk of reading into his decisions the worst possible intentions. for instance, acquiring stoudemire was a necessary evil (a phrase which i have used in discussing walsh) because the plan was to go after lebron james, just as other teams were trying to do. what made his acquisition a necessary evil was that (1)lebron had in mind what he was going to do all along and (2)the fanbase had to be handed something to root for after being asked to wait patiently for two long and "competitive" seasons of roster flush, clearing out the garbage contracts that the franchise had been isaiahed-- er laydened-- with.

these two gm's were burdened with the mandate by the owner to field a winning team no matter what. walsh had a mandate to clear out the mess that the owner's mandate created. that is the central difference between walsh and the two prior gm's. apples to oranges.

if you want to lay responsibility at walsh's feet the error he made was to hire mike d'antoni as a coach.

your assertion that the league's successful franchise have elite power forwards is besides the point and not really true anyway. dirk was drafted, kg and gasol came to their championship teams through gm collusion. at least walsh acquired stat only as a free agent. apples and oranges. moreover the most important aspect of any good pickup is that he have the ability to mesh with others. it's a team game and you make it sound like success or failure depends on one "elite" position.

the only player that was worth hanging on to was zach randolph. but he had an awful contract and was not a player that could work in d'antoni's uptempo style that featured the pick and roll.

nice try lumping in walsh with the other two though.

oh and the worst thing he did was acquire carmelo anthony-- and i am pretty sure he didn't make that move with anynsort of genuine autonomy.

again, nice try-- but i'm not buying it.

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

Walsh's job was to clear the terrible contracts and make the Knicks an attractive place again, so yes, he could have just sat there once the cap was cleared.....Amare was not needed, it was a panic move because they knew Lebron wasn't coming.

Walsh sold Dolan on amare, just like he did with Melo.

Walsh was entertaining the Melo trade from the start when he blabbed about how much he was willing to give up (two of the three youngins).

End result? The worst contract in the NBA, that everyone knew was bad including the Phx Suns.

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

How was 2010-2011 the first year? Walsh prepared for two years of losing and those years count as well.

Walsh's job was to clear the terrible contracts and make the Knicks an attractive place again, so yes, he could have just sat there once the cap was cleared.....Amare was not needed, it was a panic move because they knew Lebron wasn't coming.

Walsh sold Dolan on amare, just like he did with Melo.

Walsh was entertaining the Melo trade from the start when he blabbed about how much he was willing to give up (two of the three youngins).

End result? The worst contract in the NBA, that everyone knew was bad including the Phx Suns.

Walsh did kind of tell on himself early in trade negotiations....Remember there were only reports of Denver dealing with New Jersey and Walsh publicly made the comments that apparently Denver doesn't want to negotiate with us because they don't like our young players, but I like our young players and we're willing to keep them?

Anyone remember those comments?

Evidence is that he was way before the meeting with melo and Dolan.

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

How was 2010-2011 the first year? Walsh prepared for two years of losing and those years count as well.

Walsh's job was to clear the terrible contracts and make the Knicks an attractive place again, so yes, he could have just sat there once the cap was cleared.....Amare was not needed, it was a panic move because they knew Lebron wasn't coming.

Walsh sold Dolan on amare, just like he did with Melo.

Walsh was entertaining the Melo trade from the start when he blabbed about how much he was willing to give up (two of the three youngins).

End result? The worst contract in the NBA, that everyone knew was bad including the Phx Suns.

Walsh did kind of tell on himself early in trade negotiations....Remember there were only reports of Denver dealing with New Jersey and Walsh publicly made the comments that apparently Denver doesn't want to negotiate with us because they don't like our young players, but I like our young players and we're willing to keep them?

Anyone remember those comments?

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

Walsh still made serious blunders devoid of Dolan mettling

he turned the team around and had them heading for the playoffs in two years. they were 28-26 and trending to the 7th or 8th seed, with youth and money. few gm's would be able to do better in two years. his tenure was not mistake-free.

knickscity wrote:Why sign amare to a five year deal, when no one was even offering anything above 3?

Walsh papinted himself into a corner. If we came up empty in 2010 he was DONE.

I recall Phoenix was willing to give him more years. They just wanted them to be team options.

dk7th wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

Walsh still made serious blunders devoid of Dolan mettling

he turned the team around and had them heading for the playoffs in two years. they were 28-26 and trending to the 7th or 8th seed, with youth and money. few gm's would be able to do better in two years. his tenure was not mistake-free.

dk7th wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:DK...If Walsh sat on his hands and did nothing..Those contracts that Walsh was supposedly burdened with came off the books the year after LeBron..Your necessary evil theory is garbage...

he wasn't given a mandate to sit on his hands. when the commissioner of the league asserts that the kicks are not a model of intelligent management then a gm who comes in has a mandate to use his intelligence to right the ship. it was basically about dolan not interfering because every time he does he does harm. layden could only do harm with what his boss demanded of him. thomas the same thing. the latter also had the added wrinkle of blind conceit-- he actually believed in the mandate his boss gave him!

lastly, because walsh was not handcuffed by dolan, it meant that walsh could actually formulate a plan of action.

at the end of the day the team we had going in to the 2010-2011 season was year 1 of the walsh era-- ruined almost immediately by dolan not allowing a competent adult to do his job.

Walsh still made serious blunders devoid of Dolan mettling

he turned the team around and had them heading for the playoffs in two years. they were 28-26 and trending to the 7th or 8th seed, with youth and money. few gm's would be able to do better in two years. his tenure was not mistake-free.

Now the team won 54 games with a guy you are suggesting that Walsh never wanted. How does that help your argument?

AnubisADL wrote:

knickscity wrote:Why sign amare to a five year deal, when no one was even offering anything above 3?

Walsh papinted himself into a corner. If we came up empty in 2010 he was DONE.

I recall Phoenix was willing to give him more years. They just wanted them to be team options.

Yep and for it to be insured....