callmened wrote:did you hear the man? no sign and trades. LOL. theyre gonna try to improve via draft pick and mini vet (younger) free agents

Music to my ears...There's real value here if they target the right players.

Yes to Beasley too if they can pull off a fair deal to get him.

at this point, any trade scenarios is just playing mental gymnastics because in reality none of it will happen

Finestrg wrote:So technically, we could package JR Smith in a S&T to PHX to get Beasley -- we can S&T one of our own FAs you're saying, right? I think I might do that...Then go out and get an adequate replacement 2G for JR on the cheap -- i.e. Erick Green in the draft, Jermaine Taylor, Jamelle Horne, Chris Douglas-Roberts, Dominique Jones, Scotty Hopson, Terrance Williams, etc..

Beasley wasn't good last year at all in PHX but was more than decent in previous stops (Minny, Miami). Still so young too -- about 4 yrs younger than JR Smith.

To me, Beasley/Taylor > JR Smith (+ Chris Smith apparently, a man I want no part of).

Knicks want to keep the core and add too it.

I dont see JR Smith going anywhere. I do see them adding guys though. Knicks had a very hard time scoring without Melo.

Beasely > Copeland

If the Knicks could flip Novak and Camby into contributors we'd be a better team.

but

I am not so sure anymore, his agent says the Knick's have to pick up his option for next year *so I am not sure if they can pick it up then trade him*
If we CANNOT TRADE HIM
He was a huge waste of a spot for the entire year, more importantly, we could have used a player to use in a sign and trade like a Gadzuric
It would have been nice to even have a player like Hakeem Warrick to utilize against Paul George so we could put our better defenders on Lance Stephenson when he got hot

Knixkik wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

callmened wrote:did you hear the man? no sign and trades. LOL. theyre gonna try to improve via draft pick and mini vet (younger) free agents

Music to my ears...There's real value here if they target the right players.

Yes to Beasley too if they can pull off a fair deal to get him.

Yeah buy-low, high-risk players like Beasley is the way to go.

Knixkik wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

callmened wrote:did you hear the man? no sign and trades. LOL. theyre gonna try to improve via draft pick and mini vet (younger) free agents

Music to my ears...There's real value here if they target the right players.

Yes to Beasley too if they can pull off a fair deal to get him.

Yeah buy-low, high-risk players like Beasley is the way to go.

I wanted Beasley as a FA but not if we had to give up assets to acquire him
I would prefer Dudley if we had to pick one because with JR, Melo, Beasley, they are all players that only play well with the ball and all make many mental mistakes
Would still love JO on a 20minute restriction role and out back to backs
So how much credit goes to Sun's medical staff rather than Jermaine O?
I actually also have interest in Hiddadyi as a mobile C and shot blocker

If we can trade Tyson Chandler to a team like Portland for some 2nd round picks *they picks 39,40,45 and the rights to our pick last summer* and a HUGE trade exemption 10-14m *would not mind JJ back either*
This would give us the ability to participate in sign and trades, have some assets to use with 2nd rounders in either development or trades, and gives us the opportunity to regain the 5m MLE vs 3m mini mle, and even possibly the 2m bi annual exemption
Chandler's production in the play offs was a 3rd string vet min at best
Of course, I would prefer resigning JR Smith FIRST at 5m *even if it comes with a package and waste of a spot, but I would just cut him and pay him half way in the season*

I know it is of course a little but I want to see who Bobcats draft and if a player like Sessions would be available as well because he would greatly help with his ability to penetrate/facilitate/hit a wide open 3pinter
He isn't known to be even an average defender though

If we can unload Novak or even Camby *I think he actually can still contribute but it comes down to Woodson not giving him the chance all year*
I don't want to give up Copeland but I don't think we can keep him with using our mini MLE so I don't mind trading him on draft night and acquiring some of 2nd round picks for this year/following years as they have plenty of 2nd rounders in the near future

Camby is at a all time low in terms of value, while JO has been it's highest since his younger days
But something like that with the Q, Barron, White, Brewer exemption, and with Novak/Camby

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

callmened wrote:did you hear the man? no sign and trades. LOL. theyre gonna try to improve via draft pick and mini vet (younger) free agents

Music to my ears...There's real value here if they target the right players.

Yes to Beasley too if they can pull off a fair deal to get him.

Yeah buy-low, high-risk players like Beasley is the way to go.

You don't simply want to buy low. You want to buy low and then have the value go up. Beasley hasn't shown any signs the latter will occur. I'm sure there are better options. And you definitely don't want to buy low and then see the value go even lower. According to Dean Oliver's #s, per 100 possessions Beasley gives up 11.5 more points than he scores. That puts him 295th out of the 305 players with at least 50 games played last year. He has a unique combination of bad offense, worse defense, and somehow lasting five years in this league.

I'm with you, but I use him as an example of a player that can be had that still offers some upside. If he isn't that player that is fine, but there are guys out there that are.

I'd be willing to sign Beasley to the vet min but I definitely don't want to give up assets or use up any of our exceptions to get him.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

callmened wrote:did you hear the man? no sign and trades. LOL. theyre gonna try to improve via draft pick and mini vet (younger) free agents

Music to my ears...There's real value here if they target the right players.

Yes to Beasley too if they can pull off a fair deal to get him.

Yeah buy-low, high-risk players like Beasley is the way to go.

You don't simply want to buy low. You want to buy low and then have the value go up. Beasley hasn't shown any signs the latter will occur. I'm sure there are better options. And you definitely don't want to buy low and then see the value go even lower. According to Dean Oliver's #s, per 100 possessions Beasley gives up 11.5 more points than he scores. That puts him 295th out of the 305 players with at least 50 games played last year. He has a unique combination of bad offense, worse defense, and somehow lasting five years in this league.

I'm with you, but I use him as an example of a player that can be had that still offers some upside. If he isn't that player that is fine, but there are guys out there that are.

I think Copeland is as good a gamble as anyone. He showed a ton of skill. I don't know if he'd keep this up but he averaged 20 points per 36 minutes.

I'd be willing to sign Beasley to the vet min but I definitely don't want to give up assets or use up any of our exceptions to get him.

He's under contract in the 5-6m range over the next couple of seasons.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix.htm

If we want this kid, we'll have to export around the same amount of salary to PHX to get him....Best option is to sign JR Smith to the early-Bird max (slightly over $5M I believe, right?) and then flip him to PHX for Beasley, possibly with a little cash to balance the deal/sweeten the pot if we recover that benefit by then. Novak, Camby -- they're not gonna want those guys...They'll want Shumpert but I'm not giving that kid up. If we want Beasley, it'll have to be for Smith. Again, if we're allowed to do S&Ts for our own FAs, something I'm confused by in this thread. Can we or can't we???

I would do this trade btw.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

callmened wrote:did you hear the man? no sign and trades. LOL. theyre gonna try to improve via draft pick and mini vet (younger) free agents

Music to my ears...There's real value here if they target the right players.

Yes to Beasley too if they can pull off a fair deal to get him.

Yeah buy-low, high-risk players like Beasley is the way to go.

You don't simply want to buy low. You want to buy low and then have the value go up. Beasley hasn't shown any signs the latter will occur. I'm sure there are better options. And you definitely don't want to buy low and then see the value go even lower. According to Dean Oliver's #s, per 100 possessions Beasley gives up 11.5 more points than he scores. That puts him 295th out of the 305 players with at least 50 games played last year. He has a unique combination of bad offense, worse defense, and somehow lasting five years in this league.

I'm with you, but I use him as an example of a player that can be had that still offers some upside. If he isn't that player that is fine, but there are guys out there that are.

I think Copeland is as good a gamble as anyone. He showed a ton of skill. I don't know if he'd keep this up but he averaged 20 points per 36 minutes.

I'd be willing to sign Beasley to the vet min but I definitely don't want to give up assets or use up any of our exceptions to get him.

He's under contract in the 5-6m range over the next couple of seasons.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix.htm

If we want this kid, we'll have to export around the same amount of salary to PHX to get him....Best option is to sign JR Smith to the early-Bird max (slightly over $5M I believe, right?) and then flip him to PHX for Beasley, possibly with a little cash to sweeten if we recover that benefit by then. Novak, Camby -- they're not gonna want those guys...They'll want Shumpert but I'm not giving that kid up. If we want Beasley, it'll have to be for Smith. Again, if we're allowed to do S&Ts for our own FAs, something I'm confused by in this thread. Can we or can't we???

I would do this trade btw.

Oh. Then I'd like to stay a million miles away from Beasley. I'm not sure about S & Ts.
Do we have to use up our mini mid level exception or whatever it's called if we want to sign Copeland for more than the min?

It just depends on Cope. IF he wants 3 million then yes. if a team offers him over 3 million, a dollar over, the knicks can not match it. However, that doesn't mean he will sign with the other team.