Kobe is a great player, but is extremely overrated. They are cut from the same mold. He was fortunate enough to have shaq and gasol/bynum.

However, 2-7 with 3 turnovers in the forth is what people will remember, he average 1.4 assists in the series. He is a good passer, but just isolates everyone with his offense. He carried the team, but sometimes the team needs a guy to box out, make the extra pass. You can't put the whole thing on the guy, when Smith, Chandler, Kidd were awful the entire series, when Mike Woodsen foolishly benches Copeland and allows Smith to lose his man, take awful shots and kill the offense.

The problem is we can't get better. Our GM ****ed up with the amnesty, Chandler is overpaid, Amare is useless and 44MM is tied to guys (Kidd, Novak, Chandler, Amare, Camby) that bring little to the table. So the only thing to do is rebuild the team by moving the guy with the most value.

NardDogNation wrote:This pessimism is starting to get ridiculous. We just jumped from an 8th seed last year, to having the 6th best record in the league with major injuries all season, and somehow the sky is falling down. We were literally a Kenyon Martin no-call foul away from advancing to Eastern Conference Finals and that's with our no.2 (JR Smith) no.3 (Tyson Chandler) and no.4 (Amare) best players playing the worst ball of their careers. So let's just sit back and dial down the negativity because its clearly an overreaction considering the changes that can be made in the offseason by a GM that has proven to be a pretty resourceful guy.

+ 10000000000 thank you ... I understand sometimes when people are annoyed by Knicks fans
One of the key thing in having a winning team is stability and smart decisions. I know that smartness has often lacked in managing the Knicks but stability even more ... And by reading some of the posters here we should blow it up again because we didn't win it all on the team first try (with the actual roster) and because the future is hopeless except if we blow it up and so on ...

Lets improve the team with some smart cheap signing to build the team around a stable nucleus for a change maybe it can work (I can assure the blow it up every two years has proved to just suck, I'm still scratching my head on how some still thinks it is the way to go)

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

MS wrote:Listen this team is ****ed. He was going to get his money if he let things play out in denver and the knicks would have likely had the same team they do now without tyson and had Gallo and Wilson along with Felton to pair with Melo. All he needed was some additional talent around him. But, it was in his best interest to force a trade midseason and make it about him. Dwight Howard did the same thing. The Knicks will never make it out of the second round as long as melo is on the team. and the knicks will never make a move because he is a star and stars sell tickets and there is an illusion that the knicks can make noise. We sucked in the playoffs this year, struggled against boston and would have likely been out of the first round had rondo been healhty. There is limited to no talent out there to bring in.

Chandler to Denver for Wilson/Moz? or Iggy/Moz is probably the best deal we could hope for. Maybe PHX for dudley/gortat if we include a first 3MM and Chandler. We need some quick guys off the bench that have a first step to at least get an open shot for some folks. Unless that happens and Shumpert turns into a bonofide star it's over.

What Melo trade? I thought we signed him as a free agent? Why has the board never discussed this topic before today?!

If melo really cared about the fans, he'd have forgone millions and risked much by being a FA!

Melo cares, just not enough to make stupid business decisions.

Fans still flock to MSG, love the Mooby, and he has endorsements!

We got out of the first round, his legacy is ok!

Wow, this forfeit tens of millions of dollars, and risk hundreds of millions of dollars if you get injured before you become a free agent thing sounds like a great idea- lots of nba players must do it, right?

Exactly, this is why I don't get the selfish part and can't take most of these arguments serious. Dudes living in a fantasy world lol.

dk7th wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:This pessimism is starting to get ridiculous. We just jumped from an 8th seed last year, to having the 6th best record in the league with major injuries all season, and somehow the sky is falling down. We were literally a Kenyon Martin no-call foul away from advancing to Eastern Conference Finals and that's with our no.2 (JR Smith) no.3 (Tyson Chandler) and no.4 (Amare) best players playing the worst ball of their careers. So let's just sit back and dial down the negativity because its clearly an overreaction considering the changes that can be made in the offseason by a GM that has proven to be a pretty resourceful guy.

+ 10000000000 thank you ... I understand sometimes when people are annoyed by Knicks fans
One of the key thing in having a winning team is stability and smart decisions. I know that smartness has often lacked in managing the Knicks but stability even more ... And by reading some of the posters here we should blow it up again because we didn't win it all on the team first try (with the actual roster) and because the future is hopeless except if we blow it up and so on ...

Lets improve the team with some smart cheap signing to build the team around a stable nucleus for a change maybe it can work (I can assure the blow it up every two years has proved to just suck, I'm still scratching my head on how some still thinks it is the way to go)

the team was blown up february 2011 and went into win-now mode with a guy who has been a loser and who you cannot possibly build a true contender around with him as the main piece. clock is ticking. 3 playoff fails and counting. it's never melo's fault.

come on now.

knick fans are the one who are annoyed. dolan is a dipsh!t and attracts the wrong people to new york. he can't help himself. heck stern saw that and we had two years of an adult running things before the infantile owner grew impatient and wanted his toy back.

By your theory then it's Durant's fault or Kobe's fault without Shaq or Gasol..It's Wade's fault without Bron..It's Chris Paul's fault...What ever player stands in there and play on while the rest of the team craters around him, it his fault...

dk7th wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:This pessimism is starting to get ridiculous. We just jumped from an 8th seed last year, to having the 6th best record in the league with major injuries all season, and somehow the sky is falling down. We were literally a Kenyon Martin no-call foul away from advancing to Eastern Conference Finals and that's with our no.2 (JR Smith) no.3 (Tyson Chandler) and no.4 (Amare) best players playing the worst ball of their careers. So let's just sit back and dial down the negativity because its clearly an overreaction considering the changes that can be made in the offseason by a GM that has proven to be a pretty resourceful guy.

+ 10000000000 thank you ... I understand sometimes when people are annoyed by Knicks fans
One of the key thing in having a winning team is stability and smart decisions. I know that smartness has often lacked in managing the Knicks but stability even more ... And by reading some of the posters here we should blow it up again because we didn't win it all on the team first try (with the actual roster) and because the future is hopeless except if we blow it up and so on ...

Lets improve the team with some smart cheap signing to build the team around a stable nucleus for a change maybe it can work (I can assure the blow it up every two years has proved to just suck, I'm still scratching my head on how some still thinks it is the way to go)

the team was blown up february 2011 and went into win-now mode with a guy who has been a loser and who you cannot possibly build a true contender around with him as the main piece. clock is ticking. 3 playoff fails and counting. it's never melo's fault.

come on now.

knick fans are the one who are annoyed. dolan is a dipsh!t and attracts the wrong people to new york. he can't help himself. heck stern saw that and we had two years of an adult running things before the infantile owner grew impatient and wanted his toy back.

You have good arguments and seems knowledgeable about basketball
But sorry there isn't one unique formula to build a championship team
and perfection doesn't exist ... Only one team succeed every year and this is a combination of talent (the Knicks do have some talent now, maybe not the ones that you prefer), luck (injuries), stability....

And I prefer to be in a win now mode rather than being stuck in the past 10 years misery
Most of the teams with young talent never win the championship so before you can prove to me that the formula is better (and I ask proofs not perception and subjectivity), I will keep an open mind on the actual Knicks team and appreciate the fact that there were still playing meaningful basketball 2 days ago

Feel free to complain about Melo, perfection and so on ... I prefer to see the half-full glass

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:This pessimism is starting to get ridiculous. We just jumped from an 8th seed last year, to having the 6th best record in the league with major injuries all season, and somehow the sky is falling down. We were literally a Kenyon Martin no-call foul away from advancing to Eastern Conference Finals and that's with our no.2 (JR Smith) no.3 (Tyson Chandler) and no.4 (Amare) best players playing the worst ball of their careers. So let's just sit back and dial down the negativity because its clearly an overreaction considering the changes that can be made in the offseason by a GM that has proven to be a pretty resourceful guy.

+ 10000000000 thank you ... I understand sometimes when people are annoyed by Knicks fans
One of the key thing in having a winning team is stability and smart decisions. I know that smartness has often lacked in managing the Knicks but stability even more ... And by reading some of the posters here we should blow it up again because we didn't win it all on the team first try (with the actual roster) and because the future is hopeless except if we blow it up and so on ...

Lets improve the team with some smart cheap signing to build the team around a stable nucleus for a change maybe it can work (I can assure the blow it up every two years has proved to just suck, I'm still scratching my head on how some still thinks it is the way to go)

the team was blown up february 2011 and went into win-now mode with a guy who has been a loser and who you cannot possibly build a true contender around with him as the main piece. clock is ticking. 3 playoff fails and counting. it's never melo's fault.

come on now.

knick fans are the one who are annoyed. dolan is a dipsh!t and attracts the wrong people to new york. he can't help himself. heck stern saw that and we had two years of an adult running things before the infantile owner grew impatient and wanted his toy back.

By your theory then it's Durant's fault or Kobe's fault without Shaq or Gasol..It's Wade's fault without Bron..It's Chris Paul's fault...What ever player stands in there and play on while the rest of the team craters around him, it his fault...

bryant is an overrated douche who has benefitted from shaq, and then a west/kupchack collusion to land gasol. bryant could not adjust his game because of his ego and the team suffered. dude has always been less than meets the eye. inefficient scorer and overrated defender. not to be mentioned in the same sentence as jordan but always is. and yet he is head and shoulders more valuable than carmelo. problem is that bryant has legions of nut-garglers but i am not fooled.

westbrook is overrated but he still provides just enough stuff to be useful to his team. durant is a positive-sum player regardless. they lost this year because of bad matchups. gasol is elite and randolph can do his thing when there is no length to stop him.

all anthony does is score, and inefficiently. he doesn't defend and he doesn't make plays off drives. footwork is subpar but his nut-garglers marvel at his "bullyball." lmao how'd that work out against indiana?!? he needs a reality check: supreme conditioning, improve your ball handling skills and footwork so you can make plays off of drives like pierce does, and draw foukls off of ball and head fakes in addition to ball and head fakes!!! you know, the shot i have been wanting to see from him all season long. the best he could muster is woodson running him off of a couple of screens midrange and at that he excelled... but nothing else.

bottom line neither the lakers nor the thunder GUTTED their rosters and threw away future draft picks to acquire durant or bryant or gasol or shaq.

there is no theorizing here. the only theorizing is being done by someone who insists on com apring apples to oranges to justify the presence of a fool's gols player as the centerpiece of the knicks.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:This pessimism is starting to get ridiculous. We just jumped from an 8th seed last year, to having the 6th best record in the league with major injuries all season, and somehow the sky is falling down. We were literally a Kenyon Martin no-call foul away from advancing to Eastern Conference Finals and that's with our no.2 (JR Smith) no.3 (Tyson Chandler) and no.4 (Amare) best players playing the worst ball of their careers. So let's just sit back and dial down the negativity because its clearly an overreaction considering the changes that can be made in the offseason by a GM that has proven to be a pretty resourceful guy.

+ 10000000000 thank you ... I understand sometimes when people are annoyed by Knicks fans
One of the key thing in having a winning team is stability and smart decisions. I know that smartness has often lacked in managing the Knicks but stability even more ... And by reading some of the posters here we should blow it up again because we didn't win it all on the team first try (with the actual roster) and because the future is hopeless except if we blow it up and so on ...

Lets improve the team with some smart cheap signing to build the team around a stable nucleus for a change maybe it can work (I can assure the blow it up every two years has proved to just suck, I'm still scratching my head on how some still thinks it is the way to go)

the team was blown up february 2011 and went into win-now mode with a guy who has been a loser and who you cannot possibly build a true contender around with him as the main piece. clock is ticking. 3 playoff fails and counting. it's never melo's fault.

come on now.

knick fans are the one who are annoyed. dolan is a dipsh!t and attracts the wrong people to new york. he can't help himself. heck stern saw that and we had two years of an adult running things before the infantile owner grew impatient and wanted his toy back.

By your theory then it's Durant's fault or Kobe's fault without Shaq or Gasol..It's Wade's fault without Bron..It's Chris Paul's fault...What ever player stands in there and play on while the rest of the team craters around him, it his fault...

bryant is an overrated douche who has benefitted from shaq, and then a west/kupchack collusion to land gasol. bryant could not adjust his game because of his ego and the team suffered. dude has always been less than meets the eye. inefficient scorer and overrated defender. not to be mentioned in the same sentence as jordan but always is. and yet he is head and shoulders more valuable than carmelo. problem is that bryant has legions of nut-garglers but i am not fooled.

westbrook is overrated but he still provides just enough stuff to be useful to his team. durant is a positive-sum player regardless. they lost this year because of bad matchups. gasol is elite and randolph can do his thing when there is no length to stop him.

all anthony does is score, and inefficiently. he doesn't defend and he doesn't make plays off drives. footwork is subpar but his nut-garglers marvel at his "bullyball." lmao how'd that work out against indiana?!? he needs a reality check: supreme conditioning, improve your ball handling skills and footwork so you can make plays off of drives like pierce does, and draw foukls off of ball and head fakes in addition to ball and head fakes!!! you know, the shot i have been wanting to see from him all season long. the best he could muster is woodson running him off of a couple of screens midrange and at that he excelled... but nothing else.

bottom line neither the lakers nor the thunder GUTTED their rosters and threw away future draft picks to acquire durant or bryant or gasol or shaq.

there is no theorizing here. the only theorizing is being done by someone who insists on com apring apples to oranges to justify the presence of a fool's gols player as the centerpiece of the knicks.

you nailed it dk... people keep bringing up names like kobe, Durant, wade.. well first of all, they are heads and shoulders better than carmelo, so I really don't see the point and on top of that as you said, their teams didn't gut the franchise to acquire them....

Everything you mentioned is correct, carmelo is just a volume shooter.... thats it, the other aspects of the game he seems to care very little about simply because he is already GREAT in his own mind.... until that changes, nothing else ever will with him..

knicks1248 wrote:I DON'T THINK I CAN FORGIVE MELO FOR AVG 1 FNKG ASSIST in 2 playoff series..Thats the most embarrassing stat coming from a all star..

IT makes you look like a damn fool when you say this is the best talent you ever played with.

JR is struggling and I didn't see one screen set for this guy, no slashing, no fast breaks, just one on one, pause hold ball, watch melo, pause hold ball watch jr, no easy buckets for guys stuggling with there shot, thats mostly on woodson, but melo has the ball and woodson has no playbook, so he should at least create for others..

I got one question

WHO HAS BECOME A BETTER PLAYER PLAYING WITH MELO?? He makes everybody worst to the point you questioning (specifically this season) the once promising talent around him..No one can get into a rhythm consistantly..Shump gets going then he doesn't see the ball for like 7 minutes, Felton gets going and melo starts calling for the ball..

REMEMBER JORDANS PICTURE PERFECT PASS (after getting double team) TO KERR FOR THE GAME WINNING 3.. I can remember quite a few times MJ was use as a decoy, or him just making a smart play..

MJ made most of his role players look way better then they were, so does LBJ, ask yourself does melo do that at all..Score, score, score I must shoot the ball mentality will get us bounce out the playoffs..

either trade melo or fire woodson

how about both

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:This pessimism is starting to get ridiculous. We just jumped from an 8th seed last year, to having the 6th best record in the league with major injuries all season, and somehow the sky is falling down. We were literally a Kenyon Martin no-call foul away from advancing to Eastern Conference Finals and that's with our no.2 (JR Smith) no.3 (Tyson Chandler) and no.4 (Amare) best players playing the worst ball of their careers. So let's just sit back and dial down the negativity because its clearly an overreaction considering the changes that can be made in the offseason by a GM that has proven to be a pretty resourceful guy.

+ 10000000000 thank you ... I understand sometimes when people are annoyed by Knicks fans
One of the key thing in having a winning team is stability and smart decisions. I know that smartness has often lacked in managing the Knicks but stability even more ... And by reading some of the posters here we should blow it up again because we didn't win it all on the team first try (with the actual roster) and because the future is hopeless except if we blow it up and so on ...

Lets improve the team with some smart cheap signing to build the team around a stable nucleus for a change maybe it can work (I can assure the blow it up every two years has proved to just suck, I'm still scratching my head on how some still thinks it is the way to go)

the team was blown up february 2011 and went into win-now mode with a guy who has been a loser and who you cannot possibly build a true contender around with him as the main piece. clock is ticking. 3 playoff fails and counting. it's never melo's fault.

come on now.

knick fans are the one who are annoyed. dolan is a dipsh!t and attracts the wrong people to new york. he can't help himself. heck stern saw that and we had two years of an adult running things before the infantile owner grew impatient and wanted his toy back.

By your theory then it's Durant's fault or Kobe's fault without Shaq or Gasol..It's Wade's fault without Bron..It's Chris Paul's fault...What ever player stands in there and play on while the rest of the team craters around him, it his fault...

bryant is an overrated douche who has benefitted from shaq, and then a west/kupchack collusion to land gasol. bryant could not adjust his game because of his ego and the team suffered. dude has always been less than meets the eye. inefficient scorer and overrated defender. not to be mentioned in the same sentence as jordan but always is. and yet he is head and shoulders more valuable than carmelo. problem is that bryant has legions of nut-garglers but i am not fooled.

westbrook is overrated but he still provides just enough stuff to be useful to his team. durant is a positive-sum player regardless. they lost this year because of bad matchups. gasol is elite and randolph can do his thing when there is no length to stop him.

all anthony does is score, and inefficiently. he doesn't defend and he doesn't make plays off drives. footwork is subpar but his nut-garglers marvel at his "bullyball." lmao how'd that work out against indiana?!? he needs a reality check: supreme conditioning, improve your ball handling skills and footwork so you can make plays off of drives like pierce does, and draw foukls off of ball and head fakes in addition to ball and head fakes!!! you know, the shot i have been wanting to see from him all season long. the best he could muster is woodson running him off of a couple of screens midrange and at that he excelled... but nothing else.

bottom line neither the lakers nor the thunder GUTTED their rosters and threw away future draft picks to acquire durant or bryant or gasol or shaq.

there is no theorizing here. the only theorizing is being done by someone who insists on com apring apples to oranges to justify the presence of a fool's gols player as the centerpiece of the knicks.

you nailed it dk... people keep bringing up names like kobe, Durant, wade.. well first of all, they are heads and shoulders better than carmelo, so I really don't see the point and on top of that as you said, their teams didn't gut the franchise to acquire them....

Everything you mentioned is correct, carmelo is just a volume shooter.... thats it, the other aspects of the game he seems to care very little about simply because he is already GREAT in his own mind.... until that changes, nothing else ever will with him..

Dude, just change your name from TKF to I HATE MELO! There is not one player in the damn NBA that can win it all on his own. For all this CRAP about Lebron taking the Cavs to the Finals people fail to mention that he didn't win a ring until he teamed with DHole and Bosh.

Kobe won rings as 2nd fiddle to the best player in the league and won a ring once the Lakers were able to steal Gasol from Memphis.

Funny, Durant gets knocked out in the 2nd round with no Westbrook but he lost because of the matchup. Dude stop faking jacks and jump ship already.

WOW! Cash Money you are sooo on point. enough said

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Red1976 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:This pessimism is starting to get ridiculous. We just jumped from an 8th seed last year, to having the 6th best record in the league with major injuries all season, and somehow the sky is falling down. We were literally a Kenyon Martin no-call foul away from advancing to Eastern Conference Finals and that's with our no.2 (JR Smith) no.3 (Tyson Chandler) and no.4 (Amare) best players playing the worst ball of their careers. So let's just sit back and dial down the negativity because its clearly an overreaction considering the changes that can be made in the offseason by a GM that has proven to be a pretty resourceful guy.

+ 10000000000 thank you ... I understand sometimes when people are annoyed by Knicks fans
One of the key thing in having a winning team is stability and smart decisions. I know that smartness has often lacked in managing the Knicks but stability even more ... And by reading some of the posters here we should blow it up again because we didn't win it all on the team first try (with the actual roster) and because the future is hopeless except if we blow it up and so on ...

Lets improve the team with some smart cheap signing to build the team around a stable nucleus for a change maybe it can work (I can assure the blow it up every two years has proved to just suck, I'm still scratching my head on how some still thinks it is the way to go)

the team was blown up february 2011 and went into win-now mode with a guy who has been a loser and who you cannot possibly build a true contender around with him as the main piece. clock is ticking. 3 playoff fails and counting. it's never melo's fault.

come on now.

knick fans are the one who are annoyed. dolan is a dipsh!t and attracts the wrong people to new york. he can't help himself. heck stern saw that and we had two years of an adult running things before the infantile owner grew impatient and wanted his toy back.

By your theory then it's Durant's fault or Kobe's fault without Shaq or Gasol..It's Wade's fault without Bron..It's Chris Paul's fault...What ever player stands in there and play on while the rest of the team craters around him, it his fault...

bryant is an overrated douche who has benefitted from shaq, and then a west/kupchack collusion to land gasol. bryant could not adjust his game because of his ego and the team suffered. dude has always been less than meets the eye. inefficient scorer and overrated defender. not to be mentioned in the same sentence as jordan but always is. and yet he is head and shoulders more valuable than carmelo. problem is that bryant has legions of nut-garglers but i am not fooled.

westbrook is overrated but he still provides just enough stuff to be useful to his team. durant is a positive-sum player regardless. they lost this year because of bad matchups. gasol is elite and randolph can do his thing when there is no length to stop him.

all anthony does is score, and inefficiently. he doesn't defend and he doesn't make plays off drives. footwork is subpar but his nut-garglers marvel at his "bullyball." lmao how'd that work out against indiana?!? he needs a reality check: supreme conditioning, improve your ball handling skills and footwork so you can make plays off of drives like pierce does, and draw foukls off of ball and head fakes in addition to ball and head fakes!!! you know, the shot i have been wanting to see from him all season long. the best he could muster is woodson running him off of a couple of screens midrange and at that he excelled... but nothing else.

bottom line neither the lakers nor the thunder GUTTED their rosters and threw away future draft picks to acquire durant or bryant or gasol or shaq.

there is no theorizing here. the only theorizing is being done by someone who insists on com apring apples to oranges to justify the presence of a fool's gols player as the centerpiece of the knicks.

you nailed it dk... people keep bringing up names like kobe, Durant, wade.. well first of all, they are heads and shoulders better than carmelo, so I really don't see the point and on top of that as you said, their teams didn't gut the franchise to acquire them....

Everything you mentioned is correct, carmelo is just a volume shooter.... thats it, the other aspects of the game he seems to care very little about simply because he is already GREAT in his own mind.... until that changes, nothing else ever will with him..

Dude, just change your name from TKF to I HATE MELO! There is not one player in the damn NBA that can win it all on his own. For all this CRAP about Lebron taking the Cavs to the Finals people fail to mention that he didn't win a ring until he teamed with DHole and Bosh.

Kobe won rings as 2nd fiddle to the best player in the league and won a ring once the Lakers were able to steal Gasol from Memphis.

Funny, Durant gets knocked out in the 2nd round with no Westbrook but he lost because of the matchup. Dude stop faking jacks and jump ship already.

how many teams have two superior low post players? one is a superlative passer and shotblocker and the other is a fantastic offensive rebounder who nobody realizes is a lefty. the thunder are a perimeter team and fastbreak team so when you lose westbrook you get a mismatch-- not competing styles but a mismatch.

pacers are flat out better than new york. one team defends the three, defends the rim, doesn't double team, and tries for offensive rebounds. the other relies on three point shooting and finishing at the rim and doesn't work on boxing out.

vogel has a better team and is the better coach. if i had more respect for woodson i would feel sorry for him. i respect him a little bit but he remains a fool's gold coach.