tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:Grunwald is gonna need to come up with an actual plan for building up the rest of the roster with players that will fill the needs on this team.

1. Melo is still the core piece but after that you really don't have much.
2. Love Shump and expect him to improve next year. He made a really good come back from ACL surgery.
3. Wish we could upgrade the PG spot. Felton is OK, but hes not a real setup PG and Prigs is a solid backup PG.
4. Wish we had a real SG too. JR is just not the answer from what i've seen. I'd like a player we could trust to make good decisions. Just don't know how we get that kind of player.
5. The Bigs situation is really rough. We've got old guys and not much else. our bigs are really weak too.

With all of that said, I don't feel like this team is that far away from being better. It's not like we had nothing working at all. A lot went right. It just seems bad with all these old guys signed to contracts that we can't play and can't trade.

#1 is our main problem bro.. but you guys just fail to see that.. but whatever..

even if you think he is a great basketball player, he is not the kind of guy you build around.. he is extremely difficult to build around and just should not be done...

Yes and no. It's hard to say we've seen the best we can do to build around Melo when Amar'e's huge contract handcuffs Grunwald from doing so. It's clear they don't complement each other at all. At the same time, I do agree that this attempt to sign old vets in order to maximize Melo's output and win a scoring title has resulted in nothing promising. It really is hard to build solely around a one way player who is not a leader. Melo needs a PG who is going to lead this team, dictate the offense, and get on him to focus on defense. So, I guess it depends on whether you still consider that 'building around' Melo.

toad wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:Grunwald is gonna need to come up with an actual plan for building up the rest of the roster with players that will fill the needs on this team.

1. Melo is still the core piece but after that you really don't have much.
2. Love Shump and expect him to improve next year. He made a really good come back from ACL surgery.
3. Wish we could upgrade the PG spot. Felton is OK, but hes not a real setup PG and Prigs is a solid backup PG.
4. Wish we had a real SG too. JR is just not the answer from what i've seen. I'd like a player we could trust to make good decisions. Just don't know how we get that kind of player.
5. The Bigs situation is really rough. We've got old guys and not much else. our bigs are really weak too.

With all of that said, I don't feel like this team is that far away from being better. It's not like we had nothing working at all. A lot went right. It just seems bad with all these old guys signed to contracts that we can't play and can't trade.

#1 is our main problem bro.. but you guys just fail to see that.. but whatever..

even if you think he is a great basketball player, he is not the kind of guy you build around.. he is extremely difficult to build around and just should not be done...

Yes and no. It's hard to say we've seen the best we can do to build around Melo when Amar'e's huge contract handcuffs Grunwald from doing so. It's clear they don't complement each other at all. At the same time, I do agree that this attempt to sign old vets in order to maximize Melo's output and win a scoring title has resulted in nothing promising. It really is hard to build solely around a one way player who is not a leader. Melo needs a PG who is going to lead this team, dictate the offense, and get on him to focus on defense. So, I guess it depends on whether you still consider that 'building around' Melo.

carmelo doesn't want any guard who dominates the ball more than him, which is why LIN is gone... and really, at this point in his career, if we have to get babysitters to make him focus on defense, then why bother, at that point he becomes just as much of a liability as amare's contract..

loweyecue wrote:Melo is not a leader just like Kobe wasn't for most part. But PJAX finally got him there. Melo needs to be coached not coddled - Woody doesn't have the balls or the credibility to get Melo to do what he needs to do. When your mindset coming into game 6 of a playoff is that you need to score 60 points for the team to win - you will never be a leader. Somebody needs to tell this him that he gets paid to play basketball for the NEW YORK KNICKS - and this is not all about Melo and his own greatness.

KnicksChick wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Melo is not a leader just like Kobe wasn't for most part. But PJAX finally got him there. Melo needs to be coached not coddled - Woody doesn't have the balls or the credibility to get Melo to do what he needs to do. When your mindset coming into game 6 of a playoff is that you need to score 60 points for the team to win - you will never be a leader. Somebody needs to tell this him that he gets paid to play basketball for the NEW YORK KNICKS - and this is not all about Melo and his own greatness.

You can't teach someone how to lead. You are either a leader or not. I felt Melo did his best to lead. Maybe it wasn't what you and I wanted to see, but I saw him fighting to win, not arguing calls, getting technicals, or tying his shoe in late game situations (ahem J.R.).

KnicksChick wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Melo is not a leader just like Kobe wasn't for most part. But PJAX finally got him there. Melo needs to be coached not coddled - Woody doesn't have the balls or the credibility to get Melo to do what he needs to do. When your mindset coming into game 6 of a playoff is that you need to score 60 points for the team to win - you will never be a leader. Somebody needs to tell this him that he gets paid to play basketball for the NEW YORK KNICKS - and this is not all about Melo and his own greatness.

You can't teach someone how to lead. You are either a leader or not. I felt Melo did his best to lead. Maybe it wasn't what you and I wanted to see, but I saw him fighting to win, not arguing calls, getting technicals, or tying his shoe in late game situations (ahem J.R.).

I completely disagree. You can absolutely teach leadership. Leaders are made not born, it's not something genetic you inherit from your parents. When you work with adult professionals at this level as a coach - you are expected and required to teach them to lead. You are not supposed to be teaching them how to play basketball. Unfortunately this culture of hero worship has created adult professionals with the maturity of teenagers. Accepting sub par results and saying they tried is exactly the type of thing that incrementally gets us to this point.

We suck because we accept sucking - as long as Melo gets to be scoring champ or whatever.

AnubisADL wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Melo is not a leader just like Kobe wasn't for most part. But PJAX finally got him there. Melo needs to be coached not coddled - Woody doesn't have the balls or the credibility to get Melo to do what he needs to do. When your mindset coming into game 6 of a playoff is that you need to score 60 points for the team to win - you will never be a leader. Somebody needs to tell this him that he gets paid to play basketball for the NEW YORK KNICKS - and this is not all about Melo and his own greatness.

nixluva wrote:

blkexec wrote:

nixluva wrote:Grunwald rolled the dice on old players and he lost! Can't do that again next year. Gotta find some younger options. Don't know how they'll do that with no money, but that's his job.

Very happy with Melo's effort, Prigs, Shump, Felton, Cope and KMart. They all had good moments in the playoffs. We really aren't sufficiently deep with quality 2 way players. JR really killed us after the elbow. Imagine if he would've played anywhere near his normal output?

The problem is that JR was allowed to ruin the series by Woodson. Woody didn't respond to the needs of the team. Played Cope too late in the series. Never even got things settled at all. The Pacers never changed what they do and have done as a team. That was really a well coached team. They had a strong series from top to bottom.

Indy played to their strength, which happens to be our weakness...OFFENSE AND DEFENSE IN THE POST!

Yes but even with all of that, if you execute at a high level you can beat a team like the Pacers. We had a TON of poorly executed plays all series. We blanked out on D way too may times all series. We didn't even play our style of BB for MOST of the playoffs. That's a coaching problem. When you have a team full of guys that have shot the 3 all year and they you leave a few of those guys on the bench it makes no sense.

Hey nixluva come on now all the best coaching in the world would not have beaten the Pacers. They had a better team than us. You keep blaming the coach. Phil Jackson would not have been able the beat the Pacers. I know that you have a problem with the coach but man look at the knicks. The Pacers is our nightmare as far as match ups so stop blaming the coach. I will say that he should have took JR out but who was he going to replace him with. Woody is a stubborn man and we should have used Novak and I don't want to say he didn't use Novak because of defense. Hell the Pacers was scoring at will.
We was just not as good a the Pacers. What worrys me is that the way Melo is getting beat up he may be done sooner that we think. JR Smith is not a second option player. We don't have a second option player. It is just the way it is.

JamesKPolk wrote:The following need to go if we are to have any future playoff success:

Smith
Felton
Chandler
Woodson

We will be a better team if these individuals are subtracted from the team. No question that this series was a complete disappointment. They were outhustled in nearly every game and outplayed defensively. They were also outcoached and outclassed by an opponent who is good, but not this good. The Pacers are not this type of powerhouse team. A better supporting cast and a different coach beat this team. But Woodson chose to bench Prigioni numerous times and stick with Smith and Felton down the stretch. This core has failed. It's time to break it up and bring in some new pieces because this team as currently constructed and coached will not advance past round 2 in the future.

Felton is worth keeping his contract is reasonable. Where do u think a a starting PG is coming from if we get rid of him

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I heard an interview on the radio today with a guy from nba tv who said that the Knicks really weren't that good and that Woodson had done an incredible job coaching up the team and managing personalities. I agree but think he will have a better, more cohesive roster next year.

I don't think the problem is that Woodson is a bad coach. That much is reflected in his success with both the Hawks and Knicks during the regular season when his predecessors failed. The problem is that he never learns from his mistakes and has the originality of a boy band. That consistency works well for turning a lottery team around but not a contender that makes their living in the playoffs, which is contingent on teams making adjustments and countering their opponents adjustments.