Knixkik wrote:Everyone seems to ignore Durant is going thru the same thing as Melo now that he doesn't have the star help. Just like Melo, Durant is good enough to get them this far, but will fall short without help. Melo and Durant are having the exact same success this playoffs.

really? are you watching any games outside of the knicks? Durant is actually playing very well. carmelo isn't, and for most of his playoff career he hasn't.. so really it has very little to do with "help"... carmelo has been very little help himself... Durant has performed as one would expect a star player to perform..

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:I can name 5 or 6 guys that have really let us down. Carmelo has been our best player. His teammates are letting him down, they are letting each other down.

My problem is this. We completely revamped the core of our team in order to acquire Melo. When we could have signed him or someone else as a free agent. Every move for the last two seasons was made with him in mind. We most likely consulted him beforehand as well. Now as putrid as chandler and smith and Kidd and woody have been I can't be angry at him for not winning this on his own. Indiana is too good for that

That being said. With everything I outlined above. I fully expect him to have a larger impact than Roy Hibbert

Saying we revamped the core to aquire Melo is partially true. We acquired Melo to pair him with Stat, another allstar. Stat has been MIA since Melo's arrival so I ask, what part does Stat play in this equation when you consider why Melo was brought here?

Amare has been a disaster and has not escaped criticism. He has been destroyed on this site. That being said, we did not trade 3/5 of our roster for Amare. Amare immediately accepted less shots, a bench role etc. ever since his original injury he has done as asked and expected. Lets not get it twisted, we are building around Melo.

Carmelo is our "superstar". Is it unfair to ask him to outperform Hibbert? I'm expecting that over the last three games

Either way, having a healthy Stat on the team allowed the Knicks to swing for the fences (rightly or wrongly) and dump 3/5's of the roster to acquire Melo because brass thought a combo of Stat and Melo, 2 allstars would land us amongst the elite. Without Stat in the mix, I doubt that trade goes down. Without a healthy Stat, this team resembles the Thunder without Westbrook. OKC is building around Durant, unfortunately we dont have anyone close to a reliable 2nd star player to play alongside him. (Before anyone jumps in, No I'm not comparing Melo to Durant)

I dont necessarily disagree with Melo being able to outperform Hibbert. However, I think its alot harder to dilute Hibberts impact on the game than it is Melo's. Hibbert share-size alone is tough enough, but he performs on the defensive and offensive boards, the defense is built around him as he stops penetration, he can score in the paint, etc.

Not trying to be evasive to your question, I do understand what your saying. In the grand scheme of things Melo is supposed to be the bigger star and should have the bigger iimpact, but for Melo to = what Hibbert is doing on both sides of the ball and on the boards, Melo would have to drop about 35 a game if not more....

I would buy that... I would. Honestly watching that game last night I thought Melo hit a lot of big shots to stop the bleeding and keep it managable. I was thinking if the Knicks make a run in this game it will be possible because Melo was hitting some shots and keeping it close.

The problem is the results, which are ALWAYS the same for Melo. Too many shots take, too many shots missed and lots of losses in the playoffs. Its not here or there. Its every year.

Melo has been a Knick 3 years. In 3 years of playoffs he's shot .375 .419 .391

MAybe after 5 years we say this wont work? 10? You tell me... how many playoff games does he have to jack 30 shots and miss 20 for folks to realize maybe there is a better player to build an offense around. You tell me mate.

In 2009, when he was paired with Billups in the playoffs, Melo averaged 27 pts, 6 rbs and 4 asts on 45% shooting, while Billups averaged 20 pts a game. Since becoming a Knick, Melo hasn't played with anyone remotely close to impacting the game the way Billups did in '09. Superstar or no, he needs a legit allstar running mate and with Stat being down the last 3 years, he hasn't had one since his arrival.....

BTW when he played with Billups in 09, he only jacked 20 shots per.....Give him an allstar and I'm sure he wont jack 30 shots....

ok fair enough. Ill bite. At the time Billups was a finals MVP coming off B2B years in the finals. Most would agree Billups was a top guard in the league on both sides of the ball. So how in gods name are we getting a player of that caliber? we have one marketable asset on this roster and thats Shumpert.

Also it wasnt just Billups. KMart, Camby, Nene were all in their prime on that roster no? That was a pretty loaded team.

Correction, Billups last appearance in the Finals was '05, the Pistons lost in the ECF 3 years in a row before trading Billups to the Nuggets. Thats neither here nor there but just wanted to put that out there. Now, we might not be getting a player of that calibre today, but when the trade went down, is hard to believe that Knick Brass thought they already had an elite level allstar player who can get them 20+ in the playoffs and be the second guy in Stat?

I agree with you about that Nuggs team. In fact, I disagreed with Melo when he made the statement that this was the best team he's played on from top to bottom. That Nuggets team was better than this Knick team....

3G4G wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:I can name 5 or 6 guys that have really let us down. Carmelo has been our best player. His teammates are letting him down, they are letting each other down.

My problem is this. We completely revamped the core of our team in order to acquire Melo. When we could have signed him or someone else as a free agent. Every move for the last two seasons was made with him in mind. We most likely consulted him beforehand as well. Now as putrid as chandler and smith and Kidd and woody have been I can't be angry at him for not winning this on his own. Indiana is too good for that

That being said. With everything I outlined above. I fully expect him to have a larger impact than Roy Hibbert

Saying we revamped the core to aquire Melo is partially true. We acquired Melo to pair him with Stat, another allstar. Stat has been MIA since Melo's arrival so I ask, what part does Stat play in this equation when you consider why Melo was brought here?

Amare has been a disaster and has not escaped criticism. He has been destroyed on this site. That being said, we did not trade 3/5 of our roster for Amare. Amare immediately accepted less shots, a bench role etc. ever since his original injury he has done as asked and expected. Lets not get it twisted, we are building around Melo.

Carmelo is our "superstar". Is it unfair to ask him to outperform Hibbert? I'm expecting that over the last three games

Either way, having a healthy Stat on the team allowed the Knicks to swing for the fences (rightly or wrongly) and dump 3/5's of the roster to acquire Melo because brass thought a combo of Stat and Melo, 2 allstars would land us amongst the elite. Without Stat in the mix, I doubt that trade goes down. Without a healthy Stat, this team resembles the Thunder without Westbrook. OKC is building around Durant, unfortunately we dont have anyone close to a reliable 2nd star player to play alongside him. (Before anyone jumps in, No I'm not comparing Melo to Durant)

I dont necessarily disagree with Melo being able to outperform Hibbert. However, I think its alot harder to dilute Hibberts impact on the game than it is Melo's. Hibbert share-size alone is tough enough, but he performs on the defensive and offensive boards, the defense is built around him as he stops penetration, he can score in the paint, etc.

Not trying to be evasive to your question, I do understand what your saying. In the grand scheme of things Melo is supposed to be the bigger star and should have the bigger iimpact, but for Melo to = what Hibbert is doing on both sides of the ball and on the boards, Melo would have to drop about 35 a game if not more....

I would buy that... I would. Honestly watching that game last night I thought Melo hit a lot of big shots to stop the bleeding and keep it managable. I was thinking if the Knicks make a run in this game it will be possible because Melo was hitting some shots and keeping it close.

The problem is the results, which are ALWAYS the same for Melo. Too many shots take, too many shots missed and lots of losses in the playoffs. Its not here or there. Its every year.

Melo has been a Knick 3 years. In 3 years of playoffs he's shot .375 .419 .391

MAybe after 5 years we say this wont work? 10? You tell me... how many playoff games does he have to jack 30 shots and miss 20 for folks to realize maybe there is a better player to build an offense around. You tell me mate.

In 2009, when he was paired with Billups in the playoffs, Melo averaged 27 pts, 6 rbs and 4 asts on 45% shooting, while Billups averaged 20 pts a game. Since becoming a Knick, Melo hasn't played with anyone remotely close to impacting the game the way Billups did in '09. Superstar or no, he needs a legit allstar running mate and with Stat being down the last 3 years, he hasn't had one since his arrival.....

BTW when he played with Billups in 09, he only jacked 20 shots per.....Give him an allstar and I'm sure he wont jack 30 shots....

ok fair enough. Ill bite. At the time Billups was a finals MVP coming off B2B years in the finals. Most would agree Billups was a top guard in the league on both sides of the ball. So how in gods name are we getting a player of that caliber? we have one marketable asset on this roster and thats Shumpert.

Also it wasnt just Billups. KMart, Camby, Nene were all in their prime on that roster no? That was a pretty loaded team.

Correction, Billups last appearance in the Finals was '05, the Pistons lost in the ECF 3 years in a row before trading Billups to the Nuggets. Thats neither here nor there but just wanted to put that out there. Now, we might not be getting a player of that calibre today, but when the trade went down, is hard to believe that Knick Brass thought they already had an elite level allstar player who can get them 20+ in the playoffs and be the second guy in Stat?

I agree with you about that Nuggs team. In fact, I disagreed with Melo when he made the statement that this was the best team he's played on from top to bottom. That Nuggets team was better than this Knick team....

Which makes you question his basketball mind in general...

Also if that Nuggets team was better then it proves Melo has played with good players and not a bunch a bums as some of you fans like to suggest. Denver won 50gms or more a few times with Melo and I would say it had a lot to do with his teammates and coach and not all him.

Of course it wasn't all him, I never suggested that he did anything on his own win or lose. But, I think you can challenge the idea that you cant win with him as the main piece when in '09 whether you wanna admit it or not, he was the center piece of that team and they advanced to the WCF and lost to the better Star (Kobe) and the better team (Lakers). My argument is, if Melo had a legit allstar runningmate, that he could/would have much more success in the playoffs and possibly beyond just like any other star player who needs that second in command (see Durant)

As far as his comments about this being the best team he's played on, I think his outlook of this team included a healthy Stat, which didn't happen this year. Also, I think he, just like Chris Bosh who was gushing about our team in the off-season aswell, got caught up with the names on paper without realizing how much those names have either regressed due to age on injuries. Kidd, Chandler, Stat, Melo, Felton, looks like a finals contender........5 years ago......

Melo and .................?

PHUKIN JOKE!!!!!

Ewing never had his Robin!
Melo's Robin was supposed to be STAT but is now JR Smith (Starks 2.0)

CashMoney wrote:Magic, Worthy, Kareem
Bird, McHale, Parish
Thomas, Dumars, Mchale
Jordan, Pippen and Company
Billups, Rip, Wallace
Shaq, Kobe & Company
Duncan, Manu, Parker
Dirk, Kidd, Terry, Chandler
KG, PP, Ray Allen
Lebron, Wade, Bosh

Melo and .................?

PHUKIN JOKE!!!!!

Ewing never had his Robin!
Melo's Robin was supposed to be STAT but is now JR Smith (Starks 2.0)

Makes to much sense so it will be ignored.

Silverfuel wrote:Please Glen Grunwald, get Melo some help next season. And do something about Amare. That Amare contract is going to hurt like the Houston contract.

What could they do with it. We have no choice but to swallow it until 2015.The only option is take a longer bad contract but I dont want that. Fact is we need to start rebuilding for 2015. Trade the pieces we can. Tyson Chandler should be on the block for draft picks. Try to get some young players here so when or if we resign Melo we can get another star and have some young players to play with

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Melo did his part for the most part this season, he definitely needs a reliable 2nd option.Can't count on Amare to stay healthy, can't count on JR to come through when it matters.

Disappointing the way this may end, barring a miracle. With some tinkering and/or trades there's no reason why we can't be in a good position to advance next season.

Glenn Grunwald, vets are fine, but let's get them way under 40 this time please!!!

this is where I believe the Melo fans are just wrong. He doesnt need a 2nd option. He needs to BE the 2nd option. If you want to win playoff games you build around a high % scorer first. Not a guy who gives you 41% over nine years. It just doesnt work. If you want to kid yourselves enjoy. NBA basketball doesnt work like that. Its been 10 years. Maybe after 20 or 50 or 100 folks will realize.

You know Melo's best year shooting the ball? The ONLY year he DIDNT take the most shots on his team. Yup. Go look it up. The year Iverson led Denver in scoring Melo put up 25ppg on almost 50% (.491)

If we were getting that from Melo we would be looking to finish the Pacers off tomorrow, not fight for our lives. But folks dont want to accept that reality.

Melo's a great player, but he's not a #1. Build your team around 41% in the playoffs and your winning % is gonna match that. Ill keep saying it until its not true. I know folks hear really enjoy reading it over and over again.

I'd much rather see someone else running the offense and Melo taking about 15 to 18 high quality shots and focusing a lot on defense and rebounding. I don't see how we can pull off a trade to make that happen though.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Melo did his part for the most part this season, he definitely needs a reliable 2nd option.Can't count on Amare to stay healthy, can't count on JR to come through when it matters.

Disappointing the way this may end, barring a miracle. With some tinkering and/or trades there's no reason why we can't be in a good position to advance next season.

Glenn Grunwald, vets are fine, but let's get them way under 40 this time please!!!

this is where I believe the Melo fans are just wrong. He doesnt need a 2nd option. He needs to BE the 2nd option. If you want to win playoff games you build around a high % scorer first. Not a guy who gives you 41% over nine years. It just doesnt work. If you want to kid yourselves enjoy. NBA basketball doesnt work like that. Its been 10 years. Maybe after 20 or 50 or 100 folks will realize.

You know Melo's best year shooting the ball? The ONLY year he DIDNT take the most shots on his team. Yup. Go look it up. The year Iverson led Denver in scoring Melo put up 25ppg on almost 50% (.491)

If we were getting that from Melo we would be looking to finish the Pacers off tomorrow, not fight for our lives. But folks dont want to accept that reality.

Melo's a great player, but he's not a #1. Build your team around 41% in the playoffs and your winning % is gonna match that. Ill keep saying it until its not true. I know folks hear really enjoy reading it over and over again.

Very well put. Melo might be able to have a role on a championship team but you can't run the offense through him. You need someone who scores efficiently and moves the ball well. I've never heard of a team winning a championship with a guy scoring close to 30 PPG and getting less than 3 assists a game. That's too much 1 on 5 on offense.

I'd much rather see someone else running the offense and Melo taking about 15 to 18 high quality shots and focusing a lot on defense and rebounding. I don't see how we can pull off a trade to make that happen though.

+10000

Jmpasq wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Please Glen Grunwald, get Melo some help next season. And do something about Amare. That Amare contract is going to hurt like the Houston contract.

What could they do with it. We have no choice but to swallow it until 2015.The only option is take a longer bad contract but I dont want that. Fact is we need to start rebuilding for 2015. Trade the pieces we can. Tyson Chandler should be on the block for draft picks. Try to get some young players here so when or if we resign Melo we can get another star and have some young players to play with

The thing is, as long as you have a healthy Melo, you are a 50 win team regardless of the supporting cast. We just need to find the right combination of supporting players to help push this team into contending status. Still plenty of chances to do it, and if not, we will be a good team until 2015 when we can rebuild around him the right way by adding another real star that can push him off the ball, forcing less shots, and improving his efficiency.