RonRon wrote:Gallo is still worthy of a 1st round pick
Wilson Chandler is still worthy of a 1st round pick
Felton was traded for Andre Miller and a 1st round pick

The cap space Denver saved in the deal was 30m + NOT INCLUDING the tax that would have been 70-80m, this is worth more than a 1st round pick
Baron Davis from Clippers to Cleveland *TOP 5 projected to save 2 years of salary*
Ben Gordon from Detroit to Bobcats for *TOP 5 projected pick this summer*
Jeffries from NY to Houston cost us 1st round pick, Jordan Hill *who was drafted as a top 10 pick and was traded to Lakers for a 1st round pick*, and a swap which didn't make a difference
Rudy Gay was traded for mainly CAP SPACE and not assets
All these deals are NOTHING compared to the money we saved Denver from with 30m saved + taxes

MoSGov and AR were worth a 2nd round pick each
Koufous is also worthy of a 2nd round pick that they got from the trade

We also added in 1 1st round pick, swap of a 1st round pick, and 2 GS 2nd round picks *one of which was projected high 2nd rounder and turned out to be Evan Fournier

4 starters on the Knicks were traded for 1 player in addition to picks, cap space/flexability, and a swap of a PG that could penetrate a PG that has aged to a SG that could not penetrate

So essentially
Gallo
Wilson Chandler
Felton
CAP SPACE to save money

our own 1st rounder for next year and swap of 1st rounder in 2016 *the year after the large FA pool*

6+ 1st round picks and a swap in 2016

Mosgov
AR
Koufous
2 2nd round picks from GS

5 2nd round picks

So 6+ 1st round picks and at least 5 2nd round picks is the price we payed for Melo in addition to the amnesty we loss to tried to build on the fly with the junk we had left

No Melo is not responsible for the trade but he could have saved the assets needed to allow us to build a team had we not worried about his "legacy as a future LEGEND that is still playing"
he was a piece that we did not NEED to pay at that price and is the reason why we are unable to add/build the players needed be LEGIT contenders

Most of what you're saying is pure conjecture and I actually agree with some of your key points. I think Melo should've signed with the Knicks during the 2011 offseason. Like you, I felt that we should've saved our assets for a guy under contract e.g. Chris Paul, Dwight Howard or Deron Williams (preference obviously for Paul), which would've been the better move for the franchise and a guy supposedly interested in winning a championship. Unfortunately, Melo wanted the trade and we had a terrible pokerface, so the rest is history. In the end, it might have been for the best given how badly burnt we were in 2010 following the same strategy.

I personally prefer having Melo than what we gave up. I could understand how the potential tag adds a degree of intrigue but those guys (Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov, etc.) are merely rotation players on a middling team. Could they get you first round picks? Maybe but they certainly won't be lottery picks in any good draft, which makes me question trading them in the first place since you likely won't find a better player than them in the later stages of the draft. On the flip side, Melo can single handedly win you games and/or make you good enough to be a middling playoff team without much help. That kind of skill is not something you find in very many drafts, so like I said, I personally prefer having Melo than a bunch of "what ifs".

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

I disagree. You attractive stars with other stars (see Wade attracting Bosh and LeBron). None of the guys you mentioned have star potential/or will be stars by 2015. The safer bet is to keep Melo, to at least facilitate a sign and trade for a member of the 2015 group I mentioned.

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

I disagree. You attractive stars with other stars (see Wade attracting Bosh and LeBron). None of the guys you mentioned have star potential/or will be stars by 2015. The safer bet is to keep Melo, to at least facilitate a sign and trade for a member of the 2015 group I mentioned.

You have to keep Melo. In 2015 at the latest, give him another star to play with. Melo will be older and hopefully start transitioning into a 1B or #2 option with the addition of a true star player. Grass really isn't always greener. You can't just trade Melo. We saw what happened to OKC with Durant on his own too. Be patient and happy that we are a good, but not great team. Much better than being a lotto team. It is not that easy to rebuild. In 2015 if things are still the same we can sign another star to join Melo, Shumpert, and Felton. It should be a given around here that Melo isn't going anywhere, nor should he, so start focusing on how to improve with him in the plans.

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

I disagree. You attractive stars with other stars (see Wade attracting Bosh and LeBron). None of the guys you mentioned have star potential/or will be stars by 2015. The safer bet is to keep Melo, to at least facilitate a sign and trade for a member of the 2015 group I mentioned.

You have to keep Melo. In 2015 at the latest, give him another star to play with. Melo will be older and hopefully start transitioning into a 1B or #2 option with the addition of a true star player. Grass really isn't always greener. You can't just trade Melo. We saw what happened to OKC with Durant on his own too. Be patient and happy that we are a good, but not great team. Much better than being a lotto team. It is not that easy to rebuild. In 2015 if things are still the same we can sign another star to join Melo, Shumpert, and Felton. It should be a given around here that Melo isn't going anywhere, nor should he, so start focusing on how to improve with him in the plans.

Melo's my favorite ballplayer so I'd love to see us win with him. Even so, I'm a bigger Knick fan than I am of any individual player and would be hesitant to sign a 30 year old scorer to a long-term, dollar-heavy deal in 2015. He's had trouble staying in front of 3's his whole career and I shutter to think of how slow his lateral quickness will be when his athleticism begins to go. Aside from putting the ball in the basket, he is a fairly one dimensional player so I don't see his transition out of "superstardom" to be pretty. I think he'll still be living off his name/reputation at 2015 and the better bet is to leverage it to attract multiple free agent stars before trading him.

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

I disagree. You attractive stars with other stars (see Wade attracting Bosh and LeBron). None of the guys you mentioned have star potential/or will be stars by 2015. The safer bet is to keep Melo, to at least facilitate a sign and trade for a member of the 2015 group I mentioned.

You have to keep Melo. In 2015 at the latest, give him another star to play with. Melo will be older and hopefully start transitioning into a 1B or #2 option with the addition of a true star player. Grass really isn't always greener. You can't just trade Melo. We saw what happened to OKC with Durant on his own too. Be patient and happy that we are a good, but not great team. Much better than being a lotto team. It is not that easy to rebuild. In 2015 if things are still the same we can sign another star to join Melo, Shumpert, and Felton. It should be a given around here that Melo isn't going anywhere, nor should he, so start focusing on how to improve with him in the plans.

I agree that Melo is top talent...but here is the rub. How do you get capable players to play with him? We are handicapped right now with Amare's contract. Tyson is proving to be a bad match in the frontline with Melo. You need a C that can actually hit an outside shot and rebounds at a high clip. How are you getting this? That is 3 contracts that will stop us from improving. I was actually wearing my Knick Colored glasses when that trio was introduced. I thought it was a great match. Dang...I was wrong. I like Melo's game minus the blackhole part, but if you can't get him the right pieces then he becomes an asset. That roster I suggested would actually get you to the playoffs.

Would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a geriatric group or would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a yoothier core with a mixture of established veterans that has a better future? I would take the latter.

With the Wizards, Raptors and Pistons looming as playoff threats the next few seasons, I doubt the playoffs would be a guarantee for your roster. The appreciation of young talent comes from what they can become and seldom on what they actually are. Those guys will likely have flashes of brilliance during the season but flashes of anything does not produce the effort needed to build a winning team. Its the main reason why seasoned coaches are reluctant to play young players. I for one, am tired of looking at marginal talents like Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza, Nate Robinson, Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, while listening to Knick fans trying to make an argument that these guys will be perennial all-star caliber players.

Trading away Carmelo is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yes, we don't have very much flexibility for improving the team but that doesn't mean that we don't have options. I personally think that most of our guys have market value and that is most of the battle when it comes to making a good trade. We just need to be crafty, which Grunwald has proven to be. The one thing he should look to improve upon, however, is to groom young talent in the back-end of the roster like what Briggs has been suggesting. You never know when you might be able to stumble across a Marc Gasol, Nikola Pekovic, Marcin Gortat, etc.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

I disagree. You attractive stars with other stars (see Wade attracting Bosh and LeBron). None of the guys you mentioned have star potential/or will be stars by 2015. The safer bet is to keep Melo, to at least facilitate a sign and trade for a member of the 2015 group I mentioned.

You have to keep Melo. In 2015 at the latest, give him another star to play with. Melo will be older and hopefully start transitioning into a 1B or #2 option with the addition of a true star player. Grass really isn't always greener. You can't just trade Melo. We saw what happened to OKC with Durant on his own too. Be patient and happy that we are a good, but not great team. Much better than being a lotto team. It is not that easy to rebuild. In 2015 if things are still the same we can sign another star to join Melo, Shumpert, and Felton. It should be a given around here that Melo isn't going anywhere, nor should he, so start focusing on how to improve with him in the plans.

I agree that Melo is top talent...but here is the rub. How do you get capable players to play with him? We are handicapped right now with Amare's contract. Tyson is proving to be a bad match in the frontline with Melo. You need a C that can actually hit an outside shot and rebounds at a high clip. How are you getting this? That is 3 contracts that will stop us from improving. I was actually wearing my Knick Colored glasses when that trio was introduced. I thought it was a great match. Dang...I was wrong. I like Melo's game minus the blackhole part, but if you can't get him the right pieces then he becomes an asset. That roster I suggested would actually get you to the playoffs.

Would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a geriatric group or would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a yoothier core with a mixture of established veterans that has a better future? I would take the latter.

Why does everyone act like we are cap strapped forever? It's 2 years. It could actually be less seeing how large contracts become assets in the final year. Until then let's just see what happens. We will be able to start things up again in 2 years or sooner and can enjoy a couple playoff runs until then. Rebuilding is not the answer.

THE SKY IS FALLING

Isn't it? This team was built to go to the ECF this year and to the Finals next year. You think we are getting there anytime soon? Unless somebody can flip the roster where they can actually help Melo next year get to the ECF then I would say that this path is not working.

Now if the plan is what Akrud has mentioned in another thread, then mission accomplished.

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Need to blow this **** up. Unfortunately, Melo is the only desirable asset we have. No one will touch Amare without a sweetener or even Chandler. Shump can be viewed now as damaged goods. JR is JR. Felton is just not that good.

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

Dude, no. Remember that the grass is always greener. We're no doubt a middling team but that is a better option than being perennially stuck in the lottery. All our contracts expire in 2015, so lets just sit tight, enjoy the show and begin making moves then if they are necessary. That free agent class has Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love and Paul George in it.

These moves will put us in play for the 2015 FA class.

I disagree. You attractive stars with other stars (see Wade attracting Bosh and LeBron). None of the guys you mentioned have star potential/or will be stars by 2015. The safer bet is to keep Melo, to at least facilitate a sign and trade for a member of the 2015 group I mentioned.

You have to keep Melo. In 2015 at the latest, give him another star to play with. Melo will be older and hopefully start transitioning into a 1B or #2 option with the addition of a true star player. Grass really isn't always greener. You can't just trade Melo. We saw what happened to OKC with Durant on his own too. Be patient and happy that we are a good, but not great team. Much better than being a lotto team. It is not that easy to rebuild. In 2015 if things are still the same we can sign another star to join Melo, Shumpert, and Felton. It should be a given around here that Melo isn't going anywhere, nor should he, so start focusing on how to improve with him in the plans.

I agree that Melo is top talent...but here is the rub. How do you get capable players to play with him? We are handicapped right now with Amare's contract. Tyson is proving to be a bad match in the frontline with Melo. You need a C that can actually hit an outside shot and rebounds at a high clip. How are you getting this? That is 3 contracts that will stop us from improving. I was actually wearing my Knick Colored glasses when that trio was introduced. I thought it was a great match. Dang...I was wrong. I like Melo's game minus the blackhole part, but if you can't get him the right pieces then he becomes an asset. That roster I suggested would actually get you to the playoffs.

Would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a geriatric group or would you rather be knocked out of the 1st/2nd round next year with a yoothier core with a mixture of established veterans that has a better future? I would take the latter.

With the Wizards, Raptors and Pistons looming as playoff threats the next few seasons, I doubt the playoffs would be a guarantee for your roster. The appreciation of young talent comes from what they can become and seldom on what they actually are. Those guys will likely have flashes of brilliance during the season but flashes of anything does not produce the effort needed to build a winning team. Its the main reason why seasoned coaches are reluctant to play young players. I for one, am tired of looking at marginal talents like Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza, Nate Robinson, Gallinari and Wilson Chandler, while listening to Knick fans trying to make an argument that these guys will be perennial all-star caliber players.

Trading away Carmelo is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yes, we don't have very much flexibility for improving the team but that doesn't mean that we don't have options. I personally think that most of our guys have market value and that is most of the battle when it comes to making a good trade. We just need to be crafty, which Grunwald has proven to be. The one thing he should look to improve upon, however, is to groom young talent in the back-end of the roster like what Briggs has been suggesting. You never know when you might be able to stumble across a Marc Gasol, Nikola Pekovic, Marcin Gortat, etc.

Very very well said. No point in trading Melo just to mix things up. You can develop talent behind him, you just have to be creative and lucky as well. These rebuilding teams won't guarantee playoffs. But again, as long as you have a healthy Melo you will get there, and what you develop next to him determines how far you go. We have Melo and a nice young talent in Shumpert, who is an elite defender and improving offensive player. The 3-pt shooting improvements are huge for him and for how he fits next to Melo. We also have a tough, cheap PG in Felton. We also have our own first round pick. We have a good start in our retooling efforts, just need to get creative.