nykshaknbake wrote:Your giving external reasons other than the Lakers said so reveals that you don't have confidence in your previous post. I'm not saying they will fire him, but it's certainly possible. Especially after a underwhelming season they just had and oh, running the face of the franchise into the ground which may ultimately cost the Lakers much more than a coach's salary next year. Who fires a coach after 5 games? Yet they did. As far as established..I would say both their reputations are probably graded as marginal currently.

3G4G wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Talk is cheap. They weren't going to undermine his authority right in the begininng of the season. What did you expect them to say? You think its impossible he doesn't return? How many times have we heard that the team stands behind their coach and then they get canned? Is it ever the case that a team hires a coach and after a few weeks tells the press he's on the chopping block?

3G4G wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:I can understand why MDA did it. This Lakers gig is really his last chance to prove he can coach at a professional level. Kobe is their best player. If the Lakers don't make the playoffs and he gets fired he's finished. If KObe is willing why not roll the dice? If he doesn't, the Lakers don't make the playoffs and he likely gets fired. If he does and this happened he's in the same amount of danger of getting fired anyway. It's a risk free move from his perspective.

Lakers already said he's coming back next yr, this was with them out of the playoff picture early in the season. Kuptchak said it would be up to the players to figure out how to get it done as they have the talent to be better. Not saying I agree with MK, but providing you with an understanding D'AnToni wasn't in any real danger coaching wise with the organization. He had some rope just based on the player injury factor alone and coming into a difficult situation....

But to take a page out of Isiah Thomas' Book.....

YOU CAN TAKE THAT'S WHY HE GETS PAID THE BIG BUCKS TO THE BANK!!!!!!

Really they don't have to say anything to that end but ask yourself why would an organization speak on it's players with onus and not the coach? I'll tell you why.....

IMO it was "expensive talk"..... not cheap talk.... as they fired a coach who probably shouldn't have been with money still left on a deal...paid an over the hill point guard $30mil while giving up picks in the process during the summer, traded for a DBag who isn't a Max Player with a bad back who they said is their future, and then hired a replacement coach at premium dollars. The talk was what it was, an organization trying to justify the decisions they made, well I hope they fill very much justified now.

Ask yourself what organization fires 2 established coaches in 1 yr? I don't think we've even accomplished such a feat.

No they were not going to fire him in his first yr and for you to say it's "cheap talk" shows you have no grounds or evidence they would. Here's what we have history of...No professional basketball team fires 2 established coaches in 1 season or let's say rare. I'm providing facts and statements from the organization, you're providing speculation and assuming what would happen if so and so happens. Your argument was weak from jump ball.

holfresh wrote:Well it's going to be interesting in Lakerland...And just like that, this is no longer Kobe's team...This is Dwight's team and MDA doesn't coach to big men getting the ball down low...

The problems for the Lakers have mostly been their inability to defend smaller and quicker teams. They struggle with speed as you might imagine with older player, 2 huge bigs and then throw in MWP. The problem with the team is that it's not really designed for the modern game. The funny thing is that MDA was the one who really ushered in the way teams are tending to play now. Smaller and more mobile bigs that can score from the perimeter and yet defend better against quick teams.

Everything worked best when Kobe played more like a PG/SG and looked to setup his teammates early and often and then as the game moved on he would start to score more and more. MDA has Pau play high post and D12 in the low post and it works well since Pau is a good and willing passer. Without Kobe it still can work if they can get good ball movement and keep Blake, MWP and Meeks out on the perimeter to spread the floor. Then you still have Jamison and Clark as players that can hit from the perimeter and keep the paint open for D12 or Pau. If they can get Nash back that will help a lot. In the end it's still a team you can win with.

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:For the past two games, Bryant had refused to sit a minute.

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

No one is saying its all his fault but if D'Antoni lets Kobe play until the wheels come off, he has to take his share of the blame for letting him have his way. Nothing unreasonable about any coach taking responsibility for the decisions he makes.

both player and coach want to win, want to make the playoffs. bryant knows his own body and d'antoni is not a mindreader.

you have to feel badly for bryant but there's no need to drag in d'antoni for guilt by association.

lots of knick posters enjoy making d'antoni a whipping boy. sheesh

nykshaknbake wrote:My argument is that I don't think MDA thinks he's completely safe from firing. Your contention is that MDA is completely safe and should have no fears that he won't be back to coach the Lakers next season. Since my argument is more broad(multiple NBA coaches have a reasonable possibility of losing their job every season) you have the tougher battle and that's before we even look at this season.

The main thing that gets coaches fired is team underachievement and perception of culpability in the team underachivement. Though the latter isn't always necessary.

The Lakers have underachieved massively. They were more than a few people's pick to challenge and win the Championship from the Heat going into the season. There are few who would doubt this fact.

There is also evidence that MDA is culpable to some degree for this.
1) Large minutes to his stars and ignoring obvious signs of impending injury, contributing to the possible end of the career of one of the greatest Lakers in history. (see video above)

2) mismanagemnt of Pau Gasol's interior skills leading to one of his worst seasons.

3) One of the worst defenses in the NBA

4) General Laker fan perception that MDA is bad coach(more on the preception part than anything else)

The above point to a coach that is NOT safe.

3G4G wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Your giving external reasons other than the Lakers said so reveals that you don't have confidence in your previous post. I'm not saying they will fire him, but it's certainly possible. Especially after a underwhelming season they just had and oh, running the face of the franchise into the ground which may ultimately cost the Lakers much more than a coach's salary next year. Who fires a coach after 5 games? Yet they did. As far as established..I would say both their reputations are probably graded as marginal currently.

3G4G wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Talk is cheap. They weren't going to undermine his authority right in the begininng of the season. What did you expect them to say? You think its impossible he doesn't return? How many times have we heard that the team stands behind their coach and then they get canned? Is it ever the case that a team hires a coach and after a few weeks tells the press he's on the chopping block?

3G4G wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:I can understand why MDA did it. This Lakers gig is really his last chance to prove he can coach at a professional level. Kobe is their best player. If the Lakers don't make the playoffs and he gets fired he's finished. If KObe is willing why not roll the dice? If he doesn't, the Lakers don't make the playoffs and he likely gets fired. If he does and this happened he's in the same amount of danger of getting fired anyway. It's a risk free move from his perspective.

Lakers already said he's coming back next yr, this was with them out of the playoff picture early in the season. Kuptchak said it would be up to the players to figure out how to get it done as they have the talent to be better. Not saying I agree with MK, but providing you with an understanding D'AnToni wasn't in any real danger coaching wise with the organization. He had some rope just based on the player injury factor alone and coming into a difficult situation....

But to take a page out of Isiah Thomas' Book.....

YOU CAN TAKE THAT'S WHY HE GETS PAID THE BIG BUCKS TO THE BANK!!!!!!

Really they don't have to say anything to that end but ask yourself why would an organization speak on it's players with onus and not the coach? I'll tell you why.....

IMO it was "expensive talk"..... not cheap talk.... as they fired a coach who probably shouldn't have been with money still left on a deal...paid an over the hill point guard $30mil while giving up picks in the process during the summer, traded for a DBag who isn't a Max Player with a bad back who they said is their future, and then hired a replacement coach at premium dollars. The talk was what it was, an organization trying to justify the decisions they made, well I hope they fill very much justified now.

Ask yourself what organization fires 2 established coaches in 1 yr? I don't think we've even accomplished such a feat.

No they were not going to fire him in his first yr and for you to say it's "cheap talk" shows you have no grounds or evidence they would. Here's what we have history of...No professional basketball team fires 2 established coaches in 1 season or let's say rare. I'm providing facts and statements from the organization, you're providing speculation and assuming what would happen if so and so happens. Your argument was weak from jump ball.

the situation was set up for them to succeed. the only reservation would be bryant's ego. and he was true to form for the most part.

it's that same ego that drove him to continue the night he got hurt.

d'antoni's job is safe. kuptchak knows what kind of an ego bryant has-- the good side is it fuels his will to win, but there is clearly a bad side. you don't fire a coach over that.

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:For the past two games, Bryant had refused to sit a minute.

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

No one is saying its all his fault but if D'Antoni lets Kobe play until the wheels come off, he has to take his share of the blame for letting him have his way. Nothing unreasonable about any coach taking responsibility for the decisions he makes.

both player and coach want to win, want to make the playoffs. bryant knows his own body and d'antoni is not a mindreader.

you have to feel badly for bryant but there's no need to drag in d'antoni for guilt by association.

lots of knick posters enjoy making d'antoni a whipping boy. sheesh

Obviously he doesn't, otherwise his season wouldn't be over right now. It's funny how posters simply overlook facts and actual happenings. Kobe's will to win often times supersedes logic and rationale, someone within the organization has to be his better conscience no one closer than the coach. I'll put some blame on the organization too because in the past when Kobe supposedly as you said knew his body this happened

"This is probably the best I've played in a while," Bryant said after practice Monday. "I've had years the last few years where I've felt pretty good but we kept my minutes down so the numbers didn't look the same, but this year I feel pretty good."

Along with Bryant's improved scoring and efficiency, he's playing 38.7 minutes per game, slightly up from the 38.5 minutes he played last season under Mike Brown and significantly higher than the 33.9 minutes per game he logged in his final season under Phil Jackson.

"I think it's just the minutes," Bryant said. "I'm playing more. And I'm also extremely healthy. I had a whole summer to really be healthy, to be in shape, to get stronger and I think that has a lot to do with it. Diet has a lot to do with it, too. Watching what I eat."

Bryant said he was playing on "one leg" in Jackson's farewell season in 2010-11 and the Hall of Fame coach tried to manage Bryant's health by cutting his minutes, something that led critics to declare Bryant's career was on the decline.

"I played OK considering I was on one leg, but the minutes were also down too so the numbers were down," Bryant said. "It was one of the things that kind of frustrated me. Everybody said I was on the decline but the reality is my minutes were just fewer. That's something I took to heart and wanted to come back this season improved."

Phil didn't play that BS he sat Kobe's arse down.....that's what good coaches do

CHECK MATE!!!!

GOD BLESS

AND

GOOD NIGHT

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:For the past two games, Bryant had refused to sit a minute.

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

No one is saying its all his fault but if D'Antoni lets Kobe play until the wheels come off, he has to take his share of the blame for letting him have his way. Nothing unreasonable about any coach taking responsibility for the decisions he makes.

both player and coach want to win, want to make the playoffs. bryant knows his own body and d'antoni is not a mindreader.

you have to feel badly for bryant but there's no need to drag in d'antoni for guilt by association.

lots of knick posters enjoy making d'antoni a whipping boy. sheesh

Whipping boy? For saying that D'Antoni shares part of the blame as head coach for letting Kobe play all those minutes? Wow. It wasn't enough that people spent 4 years making excuses for him in NY. Always someone else's fault with D'Antoni.

knickscity wrote:The only "blame" you could give D'antoni is for the team not winning enough games early on so Kobe could get that rest.

But he didn't sign an injured Howard and an older nash, he had nothing to do witrh Pau's foot or Artest meniscus.

It was his call to let Kobe play those minutes. You make choices, you have to take responsibility for those choices. He took the job knowing Howard was hurt. Knowing his system was not center friendly.

D'Antoni obviously made the wrong decision regarding Kobe. He said himself before the injury that they were playing with fire letting Kobe play all those minutes. He knew it was a gamble and he lost. Not unfair for him to accept some responsibility, blame, whatever you want to call it.

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:For the past two games, Bryant had refused to sit a minute.

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

No one is saying its all his fault but if D'Antoni lets Kobe play until the wheels come off, he has to take his share of the blame for letting him have his way. Nothing unreasonable about any coach taking responsibility for the decisions he makes.

both player and coach want to win, want to make the playoffs. bryant knows his own body and d'antoni is not a mindreader.

you have to feel badly for bryant but there's no need to drag in d'antoni for guilt by association.

lots of knick posters enjoy making d'antoni a whipping boy. sheesh

Whipping boy? For saying that D'Antoni shares part of the blame as head coach for letting Kobe play all those minutes? Wow. It wasn't enough that people spent 4 years making excuses for him in NY. Always someone else's fault with D'Antoni.

four years? no. two years of roster flush don't count as making excuses for him, come on now. he waited for two years just to have a fresh start.

that fresh start lasted one half a season before the building plan for his style of ball was scrapped. then he left midway through the following season.

nobody is arguing that he does not have limitations as a coach, either. but to say he had 4 years upon which he should be judged is simply not fair.

4 seasons? no way.

With that said, I dont blame him for Kobe's injury.

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:For the past two games, Bryant had refused to sit a minute.

let's now take back the anti-d'antoni words here

No one is saying its all his fault but if D'Antoni lets Kobe play until the wheels come off, he has to take his share of the blame for letting him have his way. Nothing unreasonable about any coach taking responsibility for the decisions he makes.

both player and coach want to win, want to make the playoffs. bryant knows his own body and d'antoni is not a mindreader.

you have to feel badly for bryant but there's no need to drag in d'antoni for guilt by association.

lots of knick posters enjoy making d'antoni a whipping boy. sheesh

Whipping boy? For saying that D'Antoni shares part of the blame as head coach for letting Kobe play all those minutes? Wow. It wasn't enough that people spent 4 years making excuses for him in NY. Always someone else's fault with D'Antoni.

four years? no. two years of roster flush don't count as making excuses for him, come on now. he waited for two years just to have a fresh start.

that fresh start lasted one half a season before the building plan for his style of ball was scrapped. then he left midway through the following season.

nobody is arguing that he does not have limitations as a coach, either. but to say he had 4 years upon which he should be judged is simply not fair.

4 seasons? no way.

Fair enough, I gave him a pass for the first couple of seasons myself. Might have been that "whipping boy" comment. The only thing D'Antoni is getting hit with these days is dollar bills, lots of them. He's no martyr.