gunsnewing wrote:I saw a different knick team when kmart was out there. We are back to trading baskets and giving up 100+ since Tysons minutes increased

Tyson is a matador. Everytime I see the DPOY allow a pg an uncontested layup out of pure disinterest I cringe a little. I get that the advanced stats say our defense is good with him on the floor, and I have seen him play great defense in spurts, however he too often just looks indifferent out there, taking entire games off. To blame it all on the pgs and sgs is to live in fantasyland, denying reality so as to not expose Tyson from his vaunted position as defensive juggernaut. The guy is inconsistent and often lazy, once you take off the DPOY glasses and honestly evaluate Tyson it's plain to see. Why people waste their energy fooling themselves into believing Tyson to be some type of superman, I do not know.

Dagger wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I saw a different knick team when kmart was out there. We are back to trading baskets and giving up 100+ since Tysons minutes increased

Tyson is a matador. Everytime I see the DPOY allow a pg an uncontested layup out of pure disinterest I cringe a little. I get that the advanced stats say our defense is good with him on the floor, and I have seen him play great defense in spurts, however he too often just looks indifferent out there, taking entire games off. To blame it all on the pgs and sgs is to live in fantasyland, denying reality so as to not expose Tyson from his vaunted position as defensive juggernaut. The guy is inconsistent and often lazy, once you take off the DPOY glasses and honestly evaluate Tyson it's plain to see. Why people waste their energy fooling themselves into believing Tyson to be some type of superman, I do not know.

+5000

Tyson does takes plays off. He's clearly not the same as last year. Instead of risking foul trouble contesting penetration, he'll allow the layup or dunk. Also, when he switches to a guard, it's an automatic bucket. Same can't be said when Kmart is out there, he'll actually chase the little guys around the court. This is just on defense. On offense, Tyson gotta have the most butterfingered handle for a center out there. Without "The Gotham Lob" with Felton earlier in the season, his offensive numbers wouldn't be quite the same.

Not knocking Tyson, just overall observation on what his play has been like this season.

dk7th wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:It's no excuse. Focal points of the offense get more defensive attention. It turns average to above average offensive players into momentum killing chuckers who shoot 40% from the field. You think if teams keyed on stopping Tyson Chandler he'd have a high FG%? He's an afterthought. Melo's usuage is high because he's good. If he wasn't he'd be a J Craw back when he was a Knick or JR Smith for most of the season. No he's not Lebron or Durant. But that's doesn't mean he's the most overpaid player.

dk7th wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Lots of overpaid players in the league but Melo is tops. He only does one thing well that is to SCORE and he is not efficient at it. Its not that hard. Naming a bunch of injured players means nothing - Strawman argument because it doesn't in anyway address the points made in the article. Clearly there are people even outside of UK board who thinks Melo is the most overpaid player in the NBA - deal with it.

Few top scorers have really high FG% like Durant or James. But 44% with the usage he gets is actually pretty decent. This number is actually probably higher for practical purposes(not by a huge amount) from all the offensive rebounds and put backs of his own shots that Melo gets. I wouldn't call him inefficient. Not sure how Joe Johnson who makes more money per the article is less overpaid than Melo too.

"with the usage he gets"

what does this really mean? given his lack of actual playmaking for others this statement is a misleading excuse. his usage is high because he doesn't have the playmaking skills to create. happily for his fans he is actually moving the ball much much better over the last good number of games. so while not actually creating to justify his usage he at least is creating some cohesion for the team as opposed to destroying it.

this is the best we can expect from him and it might be enough to put the team over the top. but the better teams have a number of games to adjust. i still have visions of lebron james's ball denial from last year and i wonder what woodson and melo are going to cook up this time around, should the knicks make it to the ecf.

"good" as in "hot." as long as the shots are falling then the usage is justified. but when either (a) melo cools off or (b) the defense is stifling, then melo is not so good.

similarly, the knicks offense has been "good" as in "hot" lately. yet the defense has been just average. what happens when the knicks cool off, as they probably will? two things have to happen: (a) the defense has to get better and (b) both melo and jr need to get to the line more and pass the ball more.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:That's what was most striking to me. Joe Johnson scores less, at a lower FG%, worse in almost every category but Melo is tops. It's possible he didn't even use a formula and just made Melo on the top to be controversial and dupe people like us into reading his article.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You mean you feel the formula they used is a joke, right? The article was just reporting the results of the formula.

Yea I agree with Guns. This article and the formula are both jokes.

If Joe Johnson ($19.75 million ) isn't the tops of the list with mediocre stats by even Joe Johnson's standards let alone elite 2 guard status, then there's no way he's 3rd on the list behind Anthony($19.4 million).

Article and formula debunked.

For his position, Johnson is better than Melo at most things. You can't ignore position. You don't get a PG to block shots or a center to lead your team in assists.
Melo is playing much better than Johnson this year for sure. Are the data from this year or previous years?

This year, thus this year's contract($19.75 for Joe Johnson to Melo's $19.4). I won't even mention Kobe Bryant who definitely should be on this list at $27.8 million or Dwight Howard at $19.5 million. That tandem alone should really be 1 and 1a on this list if Wins Shares per 48 minutes is the standard(Hint neither Kobe or Dwight crack the top 20 in win shares/48).

nyk4ever wrote:**** the formula. obviously the formula is stupid, i'm not carmelo's #1 fan but to say he's the most overpaid player in the league is beyond stupid. let's just be real here, you can make stats look and tell whatever you want, which is clearly what the author of this article has done.

yellowboy90 wrote:According to the formula Ronnie Brewer has contributed to more wins than Melo. Wow.

And at a infitesimal fraction of the price! Blow it up now, and get me 5 Ronnie Brewers from the draft and free agency!

dk7th wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:No good as in very skilled. If he was just streaky and pretty good the FG% and TS% would be alot lower. Think like a Brandon Jennings or Rudy Gay.

dk7th wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:It's no excuse. Focal points of the offense get more defensive attention. It turns average to above average offensive players into momentum killing chuckers who shoot 40% from the field. You think if teams keyed on stopping Tyson Chandler he'd have a high FG%? He's an afterthought. Melo's usuage is high because he's good. If he wasn't he'd be a J Craw back when he was a Knick or JR Smith for most of the season. No he's not Lebron or Durant. But that's doesn't mean he's the most overpaid player.

dk7th wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Lots of overpaid players in the league but Melo is tops. He only does one thing well that is to SCORE and he is not efficient at it. Its not that hard. Naming a bunch of injured players means nothing - Strawman argument because it doesn't in anyway address the points made in the article. Clearly there are people even outside of UK board who thinks Melo is the most overpaid player in the NBA - deal with it.

Few top scorers have really high FG% like Durant or James. But 44% with the usage he gets is actually pretty decent. This number is actually probably higher for practical purposes(not by a huge amount) from all the offensive rebounds and put backs of his own shots that Melo gets. I wouldn't call him inefficient. Not sure how Joe Johnson who makes more money per the article is less overpaid than Melo too.

"with the usage he gets"

what does this really mean? given his lack of actual playmaking for others this statement is a misleading excuse. his usage is high because he doesn't have the playmaking skills to create. happily for his fans he is actually moving the ball much much better over the last good number of games. so while not actually creating to justify his usage he at least is creating some cohesion for the team as opposed to destroying it.

this is the best we can expect from him and it might be enough to put the team over the top. but the better teams have a number of games to adjust. i still have visions of lebron james's ball denial from last year and i wonder what woodson and melo are going to cook up this time around, should the knicks make it to the ecf.

"good" as in "hot." as long as the shots are falling then the usage is justified. but when either (a) melo cools off or (b) the defense is stifling, then melo is not so good.

similarly, the knicks offense has been "good" as in "hot" lately. yet the defense has been just average. what happens when the knicks cool off, as they probably will? two things have to happen: (a) the defense has to get better and (b) both melo and jr need to get to the line more and pass the ball more.

he might be actually developing into a better player-- i am skeptical-- this season but his numbers for his career up until now scream mediocrity.

his FG% for his career is 45.6% and his FG% this season is even lower at 44.8%.
his TS% for his career is 54.5% and his TS% this season is up to a satisfactory but by no means elite 56.1%

you may be smitten with this latest hot streak of 49.7%FG and 59.3%TS but the career numbers don't lie and this hot streak should not erase his career averages in anyone's mind. what can be seen is that he is really starting to move the ball much much better than i can recall him doing and that is great to see.

but as i said lets all hope he can stay hot for the playoffs.