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Is melo back in the M.V.P race
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knicks1248
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4/7/2013  11:15 AM
how can you say that melo is better then wade, thats like say kareem is better then magic.

I never compare two players who play entirely 2 different positions.

ES
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Bonn1997
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4/7/2013  11:17 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/7/2013  11:18 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Why? The only thing Melo does better than Wade is get lots of PPG, and that's just because he takes more shots.

Melo also gets more rebounds. Wade has Lebron to take the heat off of him, who does Melo have? Melo has been breaking one record after another this year, give the man his due.


Obviously you have to adjust for position. 5 rebs a game for an SG is MUCH better than 6 from a PF.
I've already indicated what Melo or any player has to do for me to give credit.

And its easier for a guard to get his when the best player on the planet is on the floor with him. What metric are you going to use to factor that in?


There's no reason to factor it in. Player advanced stats are remarkably stable regardless of the level of your teammates.
yellowboy90
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4/7/2013  11:27 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Why? The only thing Melo does better than Wade is get lots of PPG, and that's just because he takes more shots.

Melo also gets more rebounds. Wade has Lebron to take the heat off of him, who does Melo have? Melo has been breaking one record after another this year, give the man his due.


Obviously you have to adjust for position. 5 rebs a game for an SG is MUCH better than 6 from a PF.
I've already indicated what Melo or any player has to do for me to give credit.

So you adjust for position but not circumstances and style? The Knicks are coached to get back on D instead of O reb. Also dude is not LeBron who is the size of most PFs. Ehat is Melo's rebound differential? If he is boxing out creating opportunities for hid teammates then I am good.

Anyway, wade is nice.
VCoug
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4/7/2013  11:30 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Why? The only thing Melo does better than Wade is get lots of PPG, and that's just because he takes more shots.

Melo also gets more rebounds. Wade has Lebron to take the heat off of him, who does Melo have? Melo has been breaking one record after another this year, give the man his due.


Obviously you have to adjust for position. 5 rebs a game for an SG is MUCH better than 6 from a PF.
I've already indicated what Melo or any player has to do for me to give credit.

So you adjust for position but not circumstances and style? The Knicks are coached to get back on D instead of O reb. Also dude is not LeBron who is the size of most PFs. Ehat is Melo's rebound differential? If he is boxing out creating opportunities for hid teammates then I am good.

Anyway, wade is nice.

So is Miami.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
GustavBahler
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4/7/2013  12:06 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Why? The only thing Melo does better than Wade is get lots of PPG, and that's just because he takes more shots.

Melo also gets more rebounds. Wade has Lebron to take the heat off of him, who does Melo have? Melo has been breaking one record after another this year, give the man his due.


Obviously you have to adjust for position. 5 rebs a game for an SG is MUCH better than 6 from a PF.
I've already indicated what Melo or any player has to do for me to give credit.

And its easier for a guard to get his when the best player on the planet is on the floor with him. What metric are you going to use to factor that in?


There's no reason to factor it in. Player advanced stats are remarkably stable regardless of the level of your teammates.

Are the wins and losses stable? I doubt that Wade would last an entire season at his age and health being the number one option without LeBron. He'd have to work harder for pts and it would take its toll on him like it has in the past.

Melo has dealt with his own injuries, and more injuries to starters (and bench players) than maybe any other squad. He's been instrumental in keeping us 2nd place in the east (for now). Like I said, other seasons I would agree that Wade showed he was the better player. This season Melo has had more obstacles to overcome and is still doing things like scoring 3 40pt + games in a row to keep us in the hunt.
knicks1248
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4/7/2013  1:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/7/2013  1:18 PM
as long as we keep winning he should be right there
ES
babyKnicks
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4/7/2013  2:07 PM
Every time I see a graphic of Knicks injuries and games missed and see us in second place and winning streaks and second in scoring.

Melo is more and more in the discussion.

Let's go Knicks. That's amare
Nalod
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4/7/2013  2:25 PM

Melo MVP.......

Like getting a hand job.

SOmbers and Haters want one from the prettiest girl in the class.
Lovers think a hand job from any of the other girls is really good.

When your getting one the girl looks better and better!

Melo is the hand job you getting now. Either enjoy it or don't.
babyKnicks
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4/7/2013  4:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/7/2013  4:09 PM
No idea what that means.
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
OGkush121
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4/7/2013  9:10 PM
Seriously...Wade over Melo now?

What won't these people think of...that statement was probably true a couple years ago but even Wade himself at this point would tell you Melo's better.

Take a look at the Olympics and what Melo was doing (and that was coming off the bench), he shot a high percentage shot and made a lot of them because he wasn't constantly getting double or triple teamed, but had someone else to rely on.
Not taking anything away from Wade because he's a terrific player and he was capable of driving the Heat towards a title before LeBron came along (and he was rightfuly the better player at that point), but if you can't understand that playing with so many players of such a high caliber who demand constant attention and double/triple teaming makes your job a lot easier.

I hardly think Wade would be shooting over 50% had LeBron not been there for example.

Besides, I don't wanna put Wade down or anything that dude's amazing, but you can try to argue however you want, only a Melo hater/Wade "lover" would put Wade ahead of Melo at this point, Melo's a certified top 5 player in the NBA, arguably top 3 (but I won't get into that as I don't want to waste too much time arguing on here with people I don't know or have ever met)
knicks1248
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4/7/2013  9:22 PM
babyKnicks wrote:No idea what that means.

+1

ES
Dagger
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4/7/2013  10:28 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
babyKnicks wrote:No idea what that means.

+1


+2
Dagger
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4/7/2013  10:35 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
VCoug wrote:
Dagger wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
VCoug wrote:No, and it's not even close. The only way Lebron might not win his 4th MVP in 5 years is if he sits out most of the rest of the season and Durant goes on a tear and OKC finishes 1st in the West. No one else is even in the discussion.

I don't think that would be enough. Lebron would have to play and have a lot of 0 for 10 shooting nights!

Papabear Says

Look at it this way. If Lebron was on the Knicks with the same team we have now and Melo was on the Heat what would be Lebron's chances of winning a ring and then what would Melo's chances be with the heat with Wade and Bosh???
You see so if Melo brings the Knicks close out season with the Knicks responding well it would mean Melo took a team with less talent than the Heat and put them on his back and made his game and thier game better.


If that happened, I believe the Knicks would be the front-runners to win the championship and the Heat would be about a .600 team. It would be a dream come true for us.

The heat would be a juggernaut, and still be the favorite over us. Lebron without another superstar is not the same lebron we see today.

Yeah, those 2 MVPs he won in Cleveland and carrying a terrible, terrible Cleveland team to a Finals appearance was, what, luck?

+1. I don't know where Dagger is getting this belief from. Here Lebron would have an all-star center and some very good role players.

And how many championships did those Lebron-run cavs teams get? I distinctly remember a predictable team of crappy role players that absolutely floundered in the late rounds of the playoffs. Chandler is not an attraction for potential free agents, you think people would come to NY for Chandler alone? Good one. 35 year old minimum-contract Kenyon Martin has been a more dynamic player than Chandler this season.
Nalod
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4/7/2013  11:42 PM
Dagger wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
babyKnicks wrote:No idea what that means.

+1


+2

+3
CrushAlot
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4/7/2013  11:46 PM
I am hoping for finals mvp.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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4/8/2013  12:02 AM
Sheridan has Melo rated 2nd behind lbj.
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/04/07/sheridan-hoops-mvp-rankings-after-week-23/2/
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
technomaster
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4/8/2013  12:36 AM
LBJ, as long as he remains healthy, is going to be hard to beat as MVP for the foreseeable future. He's just so versatile and can hurt you in just about every way. If anything, his only relative weakness is his average FT% (under 80%). The new improved Lebron shoots over 55% and gets a good shot for himself or a teammate pretty much whenever the heck he feels like it.

The folks who vote for MVP would have to be pretty bored of greatness to vote for anyone other than him.

I see Durant as a solid #2 *this season*, though you might argue that Westbrook has had just as much an impact on the team's success - both have played every game this season. That guy gets no love.

Carmelo has missed 12 games so far - that factor alone pretty much rules him out of the MVP race - he'll miss a minimum 15% of his games this season. I mean, if the Knicks won at a 90% clip with him playing, perhaps that'd be the only thing that'd convince voters otherwise (that's not the case).

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Bonn1997
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4/8/2013  1:29 AM
Dagger wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
VCoug wrote:
Dagger wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
VCoug wrote:No, and it's not even close. The only way Lebron might not win his 4th MVP in 5 years is if he sits out most of the rest of the season and Durant goes on a tear and OKC finishes 1st in the West. No one else is even in the discussion.

I don't think that would be enough. Lebron would have to play and have a lot of 0 for 10 shooting nights!

Papabear Says

Look at it this way. If Lebron was on the Knicks with the same team we have now and Melo was on the Heat what would be Lebron's chances of winning a ring and then what would Melo's chances be with the heat with Wade and Bosh???
You see so if Melo brings the Knicks close out season with the Knicks responding well it would mean Melo took a team with less talent than the Heat and put them on his back and made his game and thier game better.


If that happened, I believe the Knicks would be the front-runners to win the championship and the Heat would be about a .600 team. It would be a dream come true for us.

The heat would be a juggernaut, and still be the favorite over us. Lebron without another superstar is not the same lebron we see today.

Yeah, those 2 MVPs he won in Cleveland and carrying a terrible, terrible Cleveland team to a Finals appearance was, what, luck?

+1. I don't know where Dagger is getting this belief from. Here Lebron would have an all-star center and some very good role players.

And how many championships did those Lebron-run cavs teams get? I distinctly remember a predictable team of crappy role players that absolutely floundered in the late rounds of the playoffs. Chandler is not an attraction for potential free agents, you think people would come to NY for Chandler alone? Good one. 35 year old minimum-contract Kenyon Martin has been a more dynamic player than Chandler this season.

Lebron with NBDL roster = Finals appearance
Lebron with Tyson, Kidd, Smith, and others = championship front-runners
Nalod
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4/8/2013  7:14 AM

Melo has a reputation that can only be cured by a few deep runs in the playoffs. MVP should be about the regular season. Should also be about the current season and not reputation.

Maybe if we go deep and maybe next year Lebron has a bad injury that keeps him out for a while then Melo can elevate to greater consideration with a year like he is having.

He is having a great season and worthy of praise.
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