Bonn1997 wrote:

ActionJackson wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:
And if that happens, THEN you can build a slight case that we have a closer, etc., although winning one playoff series really doesn't make you a great closer, proven playoff performer, etc.
This is like a fat guy saying he's in great shape because he bought a treadmill and weight set. No, you gotta consistently work out hard first and then you get to praise yourself.

So Melo winning a chip in college, transforming the Nuggets from sad sack losers into a perennial playoff team & taking them to the WCF in 2008/09 doesn't really count in the Winner/Closer ledger does it??? You %$@)(*^ people and your revisionist history astound me.

No, perennial 1st round playoff exits don't and success in college almost by definition do not make someone a proven playoff performer. It looks desperate to have to go back ten years - when he was playing against amateurs rather than professional players - to cite a meaningful team accomplishment.

A fan can think whatever they want to think and use the rationale that applies.

Some think the Knicks should have kept Lin, personally i think because of his history, which is proven, he's the Miami Heat's bitch, and would be an absolute hinderance to the team going to higher places.

But I'm sure someone would think he can overcome that, even though there is zero evidence.

Kevin Garnett prior to Boston? First round maid

Chris Paul who's never sniffed the conference finals, guess he'll never get there either.

bottom line...play the games, but anyone can talk about what they expect to happen.

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ActionJackson wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:
And if that happens, THEN you can build a slight case that we have a closer, etc., although winning one playoff series really doesn't make you a great closer, proven playoff performer, etc.
This is like a fat guy saying he's in great shape because he bought a treadmill and weight set. No, you gotta consistently work out hard first and then you get to praise yourself.

So Melo winning a chip in college, transforming the Nuggets from sad sack losers into a perennial playoff team & taking them to the WCF in 2008/09 doesn't really count in the Winner/Closer ledger does it??? You %$@)(*^ people and your revisionist history astound me.

No, perennial 1st round playoff exits don't and success in college almost by definition do not make someone a proven playoff performer. It looks desperate to have to go back ten years - when he was playing against amateurs rather than professional players - to cite a meaningful team accomplishment.

This is pretty poor reasoning.

A fan can think whatever they want to think and use the rationale that applies.

Some think the Knicks should have kept Lin, personally i think because of his history, which is proven, he's the Miami Heat's bitch, and would be an absolute hinderance to the team going to higher places.

But I'm sure someone would think he can overcome that, even though there is zero evidence.

Kevin Garnett prior to Boston? First round maid

Chris Paul who's never sniffed the conference finals, guess he'll never get there either.

bottom line...play the games, but anyone can talk about what they expect to happen.

Papabear wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ActionJackson wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:
And if that happens, THEN you can build a slight case that we have a closer, etc., although winning one playoff series really doesn't make you a great closer, proven playoff performer, etc.
This is like a fat guy saying he's in great shape because he bought a treadmill and weight set. No, you gotta consistently work out hard first and then you get to praise yourself.

So Melo winning a chip in college, transforming the Nuggets from sad sack losers into a perennial playoff team & taking them to the WCF in 2008/09 doesn't really count in the Winner/Closer ledger does it??? You %$@)(*^ people and your revisionist history astound me.

No, perennial 1st round playoff exits don't and success in college almost by definition do not make someone a proven playoff performer. It looks desperate to have to go back ten years - when he was playing against amateurs rather than professional players - to cite a meaningful team accomplishment.

Papabear Says

What the hell do you want us to do??? Tank the team?? Tar and feather Melo?? Melo is playing the best ball in his life right now. If you don't like what he brings that's on you. One question? what does Melo have to do to convince you that he is a superstar??? Or maybe your hate is so deep that there is nothing he can do. SPEAK UP!

Papabear Says

You know what? I think I may need a vacation from this forum. The Knicks are playing the best ball in years and still that ain't enough. We got a star from Denver and still it ain't good enough. What I believe is that ain't nothing this team can do can make a hater stop hating because they will always have an excuse. Ive been a Knicks fan before some of you were born. Take a look at some of the teams in the NBA who never won a championship yet thier fans keep coming.

Bonn1997 wrote:
He'd have to do almost all of those for me to call him a superstar.

and do these criteria also apply to Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov or the two future Larry Bird/Magic Johnson type draft picks

If he does just a few of them, I'll praise him for the improvement though.

Bull*%$#

If he does most of them, I will buy several Melo jerseys and become his biggest fan.

again Bull*%$#

It's nothing personal with Melo.

Thrice more i say unto thee Bull*%$#

These are the same criteria I have for evaluating every player.

For the last & final time...Bull*%$#

I don't expect you or others to agree with this.

AGREED

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ActionJackson wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:
And if that happens, THEN you can build a slight case that we have a closer, etc., although winning one playoff series really doesn't make you a great closer, proven playoff performer, etc.
This is like a fat guy saying he's in great shape because he bought a treadmill and weight set. No, you gotta consistently work out hard first and then you get to praise yourself.

So Melo winning a chip in college, transforming the Nuggets from sad sack losers into a perennial playoff team & taking them to the WCF in 2008/09 doesn't really count in the Winner/Closer ledger does it??? You %$@)(*^ people and your revisionist history astound me.

No, perennial 1st round playoff exits don't and success in college almost by definition do not make someone a proven playoff performer. It looks desperate to have to go back ten years - when he was playing against amateurs rather than professional players - to cite a meaningful team accomplishment.

This is pretty poor reasoning.

A fan can think whatever they want to think and use the rationale that applies.

Some think the Knicks should have kept Lin, personally i think because of his history, which is proven, he's the Miami Heat's bitch, and would be an absolute hinderance to the team going to higher places.

But I'm sure someone would think he can overcome that, even though there is zero evidence.

Kevin Garnett prior to Boston? First round maid

Chris Paul who's never sniffed the conference finals, guess he'll never get there either.

bottom line...play the games, but anyone can talk about what they expect to happen.

I think you're just misinterpreting my statements. My only goal in the previous comment was to point out that it doesn't make sense to criticize Denver for having no proven playoff closers/heroes/clutch players, etc., unless you also say that we don't have one. I've consistently said that I don't judge players based on team performance, or at least it has only a minor impact on my judgment. It definitely wouldn't be a central point in my evaluation of Carmelo.

One of your main arguments against Melo has been his teams don't make it out the first round..How is that not viewed as team performance??

Also, Melo is not a PF..Having force into the position doesn't make u a power forward..His rebounding numbers for a small forward is more than adequate...

Nalod wrote:
Beleave? Got to have faith. chase your tail around and round!

It's so much easier to snipe at everything your "own" team does & if/when they achieve success you then say "I knew it all along" or "well Melo/A-Rod finally started doing the things that i said he should do" which of course translates into I was never wrong about anything he just needed to listen to me & play the right way...blah, blah, blah

What i find reaaaaallly interesting here in UK land is that the people who have the most negativity to spew never have the stones to show up in person at the bar get togethers or the actual B-Ball games we sometimes have, instead preferring to hide behind the anonymity of the net to tell everybody how badly the team sucks according to some nerd numerology (( seriously dude sabre-friggin-metrics??? were you also one of those kids that preferred flipping baseball cards or strat-o-matic to actually playing the game?)).

The only thing you said that was mildly relevant and I actually think it was a typo, was the word Beleave.
Which should forever be used in the new Clyde Frazier'esque UK Motto "Orange & Blue Fever...Believe or Beleavin!!!"

ActionJackson wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Beleave? Got to have faith. chase your tail around and round!

It's so much easier to snipe at everything your "own" team does & if/when they achieve success you then say "I knew it all along" or "well Melo/A-Rod finally started doing the things that i said he should do" which of course translates into I was never wrong about anything he just needed to listen to me & play the right way...blah, blah, blah

What i find reaaaaallly interesting here in UK land is that the people who have the most negativity to spew never have the stones to show up in person at the bar get togethers or the actual B-Ball games we sometimes have, instead preferring to hide behind the anonymity of the net to tell everybody how badly the team sucks according to some nerd numerology (( seriously dude sabre-friggin-metrics??? were you also one of those kids that preferred flipping baseball cards or strat-o-matic to actually playing the game?)).

The only thing you said that was mildly relevant and I actually think it was a typo, was the word Beleave.
Which should forever be used in the new Clyde Frazier'esque UK Motto "Orange & Blue Fever...Believe or Beleavin!!!"

I showed up in person to one of the first get togethers. I live about 10 hours away from NYC now.

dk7th wrote:if the knicks make it to the 2nd round it will be only the second time in carmelo's entire professional career that he can claim some measure of genuine professional success. for his legion's of fans i hope this happens and for the rest of the knick fanbase i also hope it happens.

however if the knicks fail to make it out of the first round or get spanked in the second round i wonder what the excuses and rationalizations are going to be.

surely not "melo did his job but his teammates just didn't step up."

and then there's defense-- good teams give the kind of defensive effort that keeps them in games and prevents blowouts. good coaches preserve solidarity by dint of their will and force of personality.

the knicks are completely unproven and i look forward to see what this team really is, since the crucible of the playoffs tears off all masks.

and by "playoffs" i mean the second round of course. first round success means nothing much.

Homers don't waste your time with these sick dude's. I call them FAKERS! They are angry sick FAKERS. They could never accept this team. Or should I say a Melo type personality. Profile the type of players they love. With them it's not really about winning it's about the personality of the player. I will give you an example the NBA star The Mail man and John Stalkton in thier whole career went to the Championship game just once I believe. Their fans however love them. Charles Barkley went to the championship game just once.None of these guys ever got a ring and only went to the big one once. Never an NCAA title. But Melo did. The hate have nothing to do about basketball. Just profile the way they write and profile their usage of their vocabulary where they think they are smarter then anyone else. They probably was the towel boy or water boy on a basketball team. Just profile what they say and you will understand that debating them about the Knicks is useless. The best way to put them down is just keep enjoying the Knicks the rest of the games and the playoffs. Write about it and every positive thing you say or negative concerns will blow them away. You see they can't stand to see us happy they want us miserable like them and these last 11 games have been the saddest time of their life. Especially with Melo scoring like he has and his rebounds, and leadership. They can't stand it. They are trolling just waiting and praying for a loss so they can jump back on the forum and start posting like crazy. THEY WON'T TAKE MY JOY. GO KNICKS!

Bonn1997 wrote:

ActionJackson wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Beleave? Got to have faith. chase your tail around and round!

It's so much easier to snipe at everything your "own" team does & if/when they achieve success you then say "I knew it all along" or "well Melo/A-Rod finally started doing the things that i said he should do" which of course translates into I was never wrong about anything he just needed to listen to me & play the right way...blah, blah, blah

What i find reaaaaallly interesting here in UK land is that the people who have the most negativity to spew never have the stones to show up in person at the bar get togethers or the actual B-Ball games we sometimes have, instead preferring to hide behind the anonymity of the net to tell everybody how badly the team sucks according to some nerd numerology (( seriously dude sabre-friggin-metrics??? were you also one of those kids that preferred flipping baseball cards or strat-o-matic to actually playing the game?)).

The only thing you said that was mildly relevant and I actually think it was a typo, was the word Beleave.
Which should forever be used in the new Clyde Frazier'esque UK Motto "Orange & Blue Fever...Believe or Beleavin!!!"

I showed up in person to one of the first get togethers. I live about 10 hours away from NYC now.

Gotta give you credit for that one lol

Unfortunately I missed that one