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Need to surround Melo with mobile skilled scorers with good charchater
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gunsnewing
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3/13/2013  1:47 PM
Boston drafted pierce. Dallas drafted dirk. We drafted ewing
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dk7th
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3/13/2013  1:51 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Amares health is the biggest reason we are in this mess. Every thread suggests. What exactly are u talking about? As flawed as melo and tyson arenat least they are on the court for the most part. Amare is approaching Dice levels of bustness
I agree. If you want to be really negative you could point to the fact that the two years preparing to acquire Amare cost the Knicks good young players and draft picks and Amare's deal handcuffs the Knicks for the future. Amare didn't even stay healthy as long as the Suns doctors thought he would.

1) go back in the stewie time machine and take walsh's place in 2008 and tell me what you would have done.

2) go back in the stewie time machine and take walsh's place in the summer of lebron and tell me what you would have done.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
knicks1248
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3/13/2013  2:07 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/13/2013  2:13 PM
Knixkik wrote:
tkf wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:
Knixkik wrote:What do you mean it didn't work? They went to the WCF in the difficult west. That team would have made the finals in the east. You act like 6 teams win the title every year or if you don't win it all it was an unsuccessful season. Melo led that team to a great season. Many many stars did not win nba championships in their careers. Are you going to discredit Malone stockton Barkley etc and say it never really worked for them?

If the Knicks end up with Carmelo for 7 seasons and get knocked out in the first round for 6 of them, is that success to you?

The one year they really got Melo talent they went to the WCF. The rest of the years there just wasn't a great supporting cast which was what the argument is. Old iverson wasn't a good fit. They had a small window with Billups still in his prime and they were a contender. So to answer your question I would not be happy but I don't blame Melo if we fail to give him a good supporting cast.

you have it backwards. melo doesn't make others better he makes them worse. so the notion of surrounding him with enough talent-- a good enough "supporting cast" LOL-- as though he is an elite team player... is a recipe for failure. what melo needs is an already very very strong playoff team to join, one with a great coach and with a culture of success.

I agree, thats why im confused by the ppl who wish we signed lin

I hope im wrong but melo may not win a championship until he becomes a role player and he's thesupporting cast

bingo!

If you think thats the case then its fine. But trading him isn't the answer. Try to build a team like the Celtics did with Pierce or the Mavs did with Dirk. You are more likely to win a title that way then the rebuild method.


Here's my point, I don't think Melo is a selfish player at all, he believes that the only way this team will win is if he scores or gets to the FT line, to add on to that his teammates constantly look for Him to score..how many times have you seen players defer to him rather then create for themselves or someone else other then melo.

But as the leader and best player he has to give up the ball to give his teammates confidence, he has to play defense every minute, not just when were down, or trying close out aclose game..

Sacrifice your game for the better, if your hot and got it going the ball will find you, if you play relentless D, your mates will follow you..

He came into the season Like YO, IM DONE TRYING TO SCORE A BUNCH OF POINTS, and for for a minute we thought he finally figured it out..then he does the complete opposite, thats a hippocracy

ES
StarksEwing1
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3/13/2013  2:19 PM
Melo is a great scorer. In fact he is one of the top 3 scorers in the game. However he just isnt a complete elite player like lebron durant dirk or any of those guys who have had playoff success. Its not a knock on melo. In fact if melo played a little better defense and got his team more involved like we saw at the beginning of the season he would win multiple mvps. Melo mental toughness is something that he has lacked in his career.
jrodmc
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3/13/2013  2:33 PM
knickstorrents wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Papabear Says

I heard Melo has done a lot for his community. He has given up his time and money to help people. So you choose to like Lin who if Houston would have offered Lin 25 million in the begining Dolan would have matched it but Lin was slick. He didn't want to come back to New York. You like him and that's just fine. But you don't really know him or Melo. I only know that Melo has put his money where his mouth is in poor communities where he used to live and other places. Personally I like them both.

Wow do people really believe this?

Anyway back to the original topic, Denver actually did try to surround Melo with those pieces.... Nene very mobile scorer, Chauncey Billups character guy, Andre Miller not very mobile but very good floor general/ good character, Camby rock solid defender, probably best defensive center in the league for a while. Oh K-Mart and JR Smith (haha) too, I never really liked them but some people do. Probably the player I liked most from those days was Earl Boykins - mobile, high character, ice under pressure, but he's probably retired.

It never really did work out, even with all those pieces did it? I'm not sure you can surround an alpha player with players that you want him to emulate and have that work. It didn't work for Philly with Iverson either.

Earl Boykins? LOL. Yes, every Moobystar needs a 5'5" 14ppg PG who averages 4 assists a game, shoots worse and couldn't guard you.

He played last year in Houston! Oh, the irony.

This is becoming insane.
Just line up:

On the Left: I hate Melo. He is a stupid loser, and no one will ever convince me otherwise. If he and Dolan were extradited, life would be good.

On the Right: I love Melo. He gives me flashes of the BK I thought I forgot all about. He will turn the tide for this franchise.

In the Lumpy Center: Melo's a starphucque, and like all such things, you have to sit and watch the games. History will explain itself, and justify the righteous. However, the Nets are still a better model.

holfresh
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3/13/2013  4:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/13/2013  4:54 PM
The title of this thread is interesting...Most posters here seek "high character" guys like Lin, LeBron, DHow, Wade, Bosh etc...But of all those guys, Melo was the only honest guy with his own organization letting them know exactly his intentions in the off season, so they could get something in return...But his type of character isn't desirable..Go figure...
Bonn1997
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3/13/2013  4:58 PM
holfresh wrote:The title of this thread is interesting...Most posters here seek "high character" guys like Lin, LeBron, DHow, Wade, Bosh etc...But of all those guys, Melo was the only honest guy with his own organization letting them know exactly his intentions in the off season, so they could get something in return...But his type of character isn't desirable..Go figure...

I agree on the ambiguity of "good character." Jason Kidd has had DUIs and domestic violence incidents but I'd take him in his prime on any team I ran. Garnett is a dickhead but I'd take him too.
dk7th
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3/13/2013  5:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/13/2013  5:31 PM
holfresh wrote:The title of this thread is interesting...Most posters here seek "high character" guys like Lin, LeBron, DHow, Wade, Bosh etc...But of all those guys, Melo was the only honest guy with his own organization letting them know exactly his intentions in the off season, so they could get something in return...But his type of character isn't desirable..Go figure...

a contract is a contract. he fulfilled his contractual obligations-- almost.

he didn't care that he decimated the team he was going to.

he wanted his money and would have been okay playing anywhere as long as he was paid.

then dolan parlayed that honesty into this latest iteration of futility.

dolan and melo are soulmates. they bonded in las vegas.

and what goes on in vegas... stays in vegas.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
GodSaveTheKnicks
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3/13/2013  6:02 PM
Character issues aside here's the most compelling reason to let Melo walk.

Years in NBA1 Defined maximum salary 2011-12 2012-13
0 - 6 25% of cap $12,922,194 $13,668,750
7 - 9 30% of cap $15,506,632 $16,402,500
10+ 35% of cap $18,091,071 $19,136,250

Melo was drafted in 2003, so he'd qualify for the real max a player with 10+ years would command.

It may be easier to build a team around a premier FA in the lower tiers of experience who will be FAs after the 2014/201 season. Marc Gasol, Rondo, Kevin Love, etc.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
holfresh
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3/13/2013  6:14 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/13/2013  6:17 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:The title of this thread is interesting...Most posters here seek "high character" guys like Lin, LeBron, DHow, Wade, Bosh etc...But of all those guys, Melo was the only honest guy with his own organization letting them know exactly his intentions in the off season, so they could get something in return...But his type of character isn't desirable..Go figure...

a contract is a contract. he fulfilled his contractual obligations-- almost.

he didn't care that he decimated the team he was going to.

he wanted his money and would have been okay playing anywhere as long as he was paid.

then dolan parlayed that honesty into this latest iteration of futility.

dolan and melo are soulmates. they bonded in las vegas.

and what goes on in vegas... stays in vegas.

If u want the be honest about the whole thing, it was a great trade for the Knicks...It's the Amare signing that has killed the Knicks..Do you deny if we some how swap out Amare with Chris Paul we would be challenging the Heat for the East or maybe for a Championship rings for years to come??

Papabear
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3/13/2013  6:24 PM
dk7th wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:
Knixkik wrote:What do you mean it didn't work? They went to the WCF in the difficult west. That team would have made the finals in the east. You act like 6 teams win the title every year or if you don't win it all it was an unsuccessful season. Melo led that team to a great season. Many many stars did not win nba championships in their careers. Are you going to discredit Malone stockton Barkley etc and say it never really worked for them?

If the Knicks end up with Carmelo for 7 seasons and get knocked out in the first round for 6 of them, is that success to you?

The one year they really got Melo talent they went to the WCF. The rest of the years there just wasn't a great supporting cast which was what the argument is. Old iverson wasn't a good fit. They had a small window with Billups still in his prime and they were a contender. So to answer your question I would not be happy but I don't blame Melo if we fail to give him a good supporting cast.

you have it backwards. melo doesn't make others better he makes them worse. so the notion of surrounding him with enough talent-- a good enough "supporting cast" LOL-- as though he is an elite team player... is a recipe for failure. what melo needs is an already very very strong playoff team to join, one with a great coach and with a culture of success.


Papabear Says

NO NO NO thats not true and you know it! I don't know why you keep saying that. The Nuggets never gave Melo the support he needed. And What about LeBron James?? (don't even go there) Did he make anyone better in Cleveland ? He even had Shaq. If LeBron made others better he wouldn't have gone to a ready made family aka the Heat. He went there because it would be less pressure and LeBron new his chances of winning a championship was far better. You see you got it wrong give Melo the right players around him and that means players who can shoot the rock drive to the basket and defend. Every time you unfairly jump on Melo I will call you out because you are unfair with your judgement of Melo. You hate melo so you can't judge him honestly. Everyone on this forum knows that and thats why I call you out.

Papabear
StarksEwing1
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3/13/2013  6:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/13/2013  6:25 PM
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:The title of this thread is interesting...Most posters here seek "high character" guys like Lin, LeBron, DHow, Wade, Bosh etc...But of all those guys, Melo was the only honest guy with his own organization letting them know exactly his intentions in the off season, so they could get something in return...But his type of character isn't desirable..Go figure...

a contract is a contract. he fulfilled his contractual obligations-- almost.

he didn't care that he decimated the team he was going to.

he wanted his money and would have been okay playing anywhere as long as he was paid.

then dolan parlayed that honesty into this latest iteration of futility.

dolan and melo are soulmates. they bonded in las vegas.

and what goes on in vegas... stays in vegas.

If u want the be honest about the whole thing, it was a great trade for the Knicks...It's the Amare signing that has killed the Knicks..Do you deny if we some how swap out Amare with Chris Paul we would be challenging the Heat for the East or maybe for a Championship rings for years to come??

I agree with you about Amare. We should have used the amnesty clause on him. i like tyson but tyson isnt worth the amnesty clause and the money he is getting. In regards to the trade it worked out for both. Knicks got melo and denver got a lot of depth youth and draft picks. Denver is gonna be a good team for a while in the west
holfresh
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3/13/2013  6:58 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:The title of this thread is interesting...Most posters here seek "high character" guys like Lin, LeBron, DHow, Wade, Bosh etc...But of all those guys, Melo was the only honest guy with his own organization letting them know exactly his intentions in the off season, so they could get something in return...But his type of character isn't desirable..Go figure...

a contract is a contract. he fulfilled his contractual obligations-- almost.

he didn't care that he decimated the team he was going to.

he wanted his money and would have been okay playing anywhere as long as he was paid.

then dolan parlayed that honesty into this latest iteration of futility.

dolan and melo are soulmates. they bonded in las vegas.

and what goes on in vegas... stays in vegas.

So are u willing to take a pay cut so your company can add good, quality, "high character" individuals to the workforce to increase productivity??

TeamBall
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3/13/2013  7:14 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:The title of this thread is interesting...Most posters here seek "high character" guys like Lin, LeBron, DHow, Wade, Bosh etc...But of all those guys, Melo was the only honest guy with his own organization letting them know exactly his intentions in the off season, so they could get something in return...But his type of character isn't desirable..Go figure...

a contract is a contract. he fulfilled his contractual obligations-- almost.

he didn't care that he decimated the team he was going to.

he wanted his money and would have been okay playing anywhere as long as he was paid.

then dolan parlayed that honesty into this latest iteration of futility.

dolan and melo are soulmates. they bonded in las vegas.

and what goes on in vegas... stays in vegas.


He still preferred NY and on Dolan's part it was a business move. Yes the team got decimated but instead of thinking like a fan put yourself in both of their shoes. They wanted to make money in a business that puts making money before anything else.
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
CrushAlot
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3/13/2013  10:37 PM
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Amares health is the biggest reason we are in this mess. Every thread suggests. What exactly are u talking about? As flawed as melo and tyson arenat least they are on the court for the most part. Amare is approaching Dice levels of bustness
I agree. If you want to be really negative you could point to the fact that the two years preparing to acquire Amare cost the Knicks good young players and draft picks and Amare's deal handcuffs the Knicks for the future. Amare didn't even stay healthy as long as the Suns doctors thought he would.

1) go back in the stewie time machine and take walsh's place in 2008 and tell me what you would have done.

2) go back in the stewie time machine and take walsh's place in the summer of lebron and tell me what you would have done.

08 I hire MJax and draft bropez. 09 I go point guard in the draft and take Jennings. '10 not sure. Maybe I resign lee. I definitely don't trade bropez and a basically unprotected pick for mcgrady. What would you do as you have posted that an nba team would be wise to hire you for a front office position. Also, I wanted varied over shump. Shump's workout was supposed to be amazing so that isn't a decision I second guess a lot

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Vmart
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3/14/2013  4:56 AM
This team needs to get better. A deal that would make sense Bynum and Turner for Chandler and Shumpert
holfresh
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3/14/2013  5:05 AM
Vmart wrote:This team needs to get better. A deal that would make sense Bynum and Turner for Chandler and Shumpert

Yeah because STAT cap killing/bad knees contract will only take us 2015...We need another cap killing/bad knees contract to take us to 2018...

skeng
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Denmark
3/14/2013  5:08 AM
I just want healthy players...
Legalize di NBA
skeng
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Denmark
3/14/2013  5:09 AM
Andre Miller for example...
Legalize di NBA
nycisgreat
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3/14/2013  5:38 AM
Our bad play begins with Woodson. This is team has plenty of talent, but Woodson is so committed to playing these old guys(I know for the PG spot, Woody has are tied). Cope played very well early this season, but Woodson rarely give these young players a chance to play. Even when every one was healthy Woody wouldn't call any set plays, and he relied to heavily on half court offense. This guy's coaching skills are eons behind a Doc Rivers like coach. I am pretty sure if we had Doc Rivers he would've figured things out. I don't Woody even scratched the surface. To me what is going on now with the Knicks remind of Woody when he was coaching ATL. Now I won't be surprised if we get bumped first round.
Need to surround Melo with mobile skilled scorers with good charchater

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