3G4G wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:

SlimChin wrote:

3G4G wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

tkf wrote:

SlimChin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:If those 2 guys can't play together because defenses can pack the paint and close out on the 3's quicker then why did Walsh & Dolan go after a SF/PF when he had a PF in Amare. Or were they expecting Amare to play Center for the rest of his career? Which the Knicks said they did not want and was the reason why they were developing Mozgov.

You think there is actually validity to this or is it a myth created by the talking heads in the media to bring the team down, sell papers and ratings?

Personally I don't think the 3 of them ever saw adaquate time together. Amare was a shell of his former self last year with the back injury. Clearly his knees are ok for now if they keep his minutes under 30.

Knicks are not beating the Heat with one guy shooting over 45% in the starting lineup. We will be down 20 before Before JR and Amare step on the court and the series will end in 4-5 games again. Same with the Bulls and Pacers. They will collapse on Melo while Kidd and co brick open shots. On the other end they will overpower Melo with their size and physical play leading to Melo either not defending or picking up fouls. Not good

Start building chemistry now before its too late. Start:
Tyson
Amare(under 30mins)
Melo
Shumpert
Felton

Dolan wanted Melo and they cleared the cupboards to get him so D'Antoni and Woodson had to shoehorn them both in the lineup. you can't justify having a 60 million dollar player come off the bench so it was kind of "convenient" that STAT got injured. whether or not they can play together, STAT's defense is always going to be a liability—which is going to hurt the knicks in the playoffs.

i KNOW people really want them to work, but sometimes things just don't mix... amare and carmelo are both poor defenders and passers... can't have two guys who touch the ball that much, who play that many minutes be that poor in both areas.... plain and simple...

That's why you need a very good PG that can create and distribute. Without that piece then this duo can't work. Just too many warts.

Except one player doesn't particularly care for a high quality point guard governing his touches

very true. it's definitely an indication that melo has some maturing to do. what's it going to take a high caliber PG like a CP3? then the knicks are contenders?

Yeah Melo wants that player to be in "THE NBA CIRCLE" or be "ELITE" you know "EARN STRIPES".... it's like you got some nerve how about you get more "STRIPES a.k.a BADGES" on your uniform

Melo's all star jersey looks identical to CP3's. Guess Paul sucks too huh?

CP3 had a patch representing ROY and then went and won All-Star MVP to add another....CP3 also isn't going around telling contemporaries to Earn Stripes either.

Nice Try Playing...... It's Gonna Take More Than A Qrt Next Time

Melo lost ROY to Lebron. All star MVP LOL. Earn stripes?

knickscity wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

fishmike wrote:I seem to remember Amare and Melo playing pretty good last year with Lin running the ship.

But we couldnt resign him because of money.

BUT we could pay (in 2013-2014)
Kidd $3.1mm (41 y/0)
Camby $4.2mm (40 y/o)
Novak $3.4mm
Felton $4.3mm

So... we couldnt envision a way to sign a player who galvanized this franchise and proved he could play with our stars, BUT we could spend that same money on two ancient relics who cant play now (much less in 2 years) and two clearly inferior players in Felton and Novak.

I love Felton but he's not at a discount. He's exactly at market value, which is middle of the road NBA point guard.

Knicks are out of tricks. They are out of guys who can be asked to step up. What you see is what you get. This team has tuned out Woodson. He yells to defend, Knicks get to it when they get to it (wait, I thought our poor defense was MDAs fault). Who on this team is going to step it up? Amare cant get more minutes and dude's shooting over 55%. Melo's idea for stepping it up is shooting more. Ug. Chandler needs others to get more involved. Kidd and JR havent hit a 3 since Santa came to town and Novak wont even shoot it if he doesnt have the needed space. Where is the help coming from?

This. Wat he said.
AND the fact that we missed the golden opportunity to amnesty Amare when it was handed to us on a silver platter.
Decisions have consequences, bad decisions usually have bad consequences.

They weren't amnestying 80 million dollars....i dont even know why this convo continues to come up.

Brilliant point that DOES always get ovelooked. Big difference in paying Billups $28m instead of Amare's $80m to not play for us

3G4G wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

3G4G wrote:

SlimChin wrote:

3G4G wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

tkf wrote:

SlimChin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:If those 2 guys can't play together because defenses can pack the paint and close out on the 3's quicker then why did Walsh & Dolan go after a SF/PF when he had a PF in Amare. Or were they expecting Amare to play Center for the rest of his career? Which the Knicks said they did not want and was the reason why they were developing Mozgov.

You think there is actually validity to this or is it a myth created by the talking heads in the media to bring the team down, sell papers and ratings?

Personally I don't think the 3 of them ever saw adaquate time together. Amare was a shell of his former self last year with the back injury. Clearly his knees are ok for now if they keep his minutes under 30.

Knicks are not beating the Heat with one guy shooting over 45% in the starting lineup. We will be down 20 before Before JR and Amare step on the court and the series will end in 4-5 games again. Same with the Bulls and Pacers. They will collapse on Melo while Kidd and co brick open shots. On the other end they will overpower Melo with their size and physical play leading to Melo either not defending or picking up fouls. Not good

Start building chemistry now before its too late. Start:
Tyson
Amare(under 30mins)
Melo
Shumpert
Felton

Dolan wanted Melo and they cleared the cupboards to get him so D'Antoni and Woodson had to shoehorn them both in the lineup. you can't justify having a 60 million dollar player come off the bench so it was kind of "convenient" that STAT got injured. whether or not they can play together, STAT's defense is always going to be a liability—which is going to hurt the knicks in the playoffs.

i KNOW people really want them to work, but sometimes things just don't mix... amare and carmelo are both poor defenders and passers... can't have two guys who touch the ball that much, who play that many minutes be that poor in both areas.... plain and simple...

That's why you need a very good PG that can create and distribute. Without that piece then this duo can't work. Just too many warts.

Except one player doesn't particularly care for a high quality point guard governing his touches

very true. it's definitely an indication that melo has some maturing to do. what's it going to take a high caliber PG like a CP3? then the knicks are contenders?

Yeah Melo wants that player to be in "THE NBA CIRCLE" or be "ELITE" you know "EARN STRIPES".... it's like you got some nerve how about you get more "STRIPES a.k.a BADGES" on your uniform

Melo's all star jersey looks identical to CP3's. Guess Paul sucks too huh?

CP3 had a patch representing ROY and then went and won All-Star MVP to add another....CP3 also isn't going around telling contemporaries to Earn Stripes either.

Nice Try Playing...... It's Gonna Take More Than A Qrt Next Time

Melo lost ROY to Lebron. All star MVP LOL. Earn stripes?

Shall we add All-NBA honors?

Shall we add championships? Last time I checked CP3 has won any either. But yeah he's great and Melo sucks....I get it.

DurzoBlint wrote:Cash, if you like Melo your accused of being a homer. If you say something positive about the team your considered a homer and will have someone come and rebut your post. Its has become a lose, lose situation and I for one have been visiting here less because of it. Everything has become a tug of war, going from entertaining banter to out right virtual fights up in here. Really crazy for a Knicks Forum.

knickscity wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Cash, if you like Melo your accused of being a homer. If you say something positive about the team your considered a homer and will have someone come and rebut your post. Its has become a lose, lose situation and I for one have been visiting here less because of it. Everything has become a tug of war, going from entertaining banter to out right virtual fights up in here. Really crazy for a Knicks Forum.

The team can win a title and some of these dudes will complain about how it was won.

Yes but the complaints will be at a higher level!

Lets win a title first then figure the rest out.

I think the arguement is not so much the player but he level of love he gets from some.

My "Mooby" depiction is not a knock on Melo himself (his play speaks for itself) but instant love he received as a savior by starstruck fans.

Sometimes the "knock" is not the player but the fan who builds him up with obvious bias to justify their view.

NYKMentality is a perfect example of this. He even points to Denver's record under Nick Van Excel and says how great Melo ALONE has helped that franchise.

Melo if not for Lebron or Detroits ignorance in most years would be the no. 1 overall selection. With great fanfair he has had a very very good career and with that comes very high expectations. He entertains but his contribution to winning is questioned. Does he make those around him better? ETC etc........and many threads and thousands of posts on this subject.

IN the end, he is what his stats and team record are. When his team advances and perhaps wins a chip he will be elevated to a higher status.

Until then he is Glenn Robinson, Glenn Rice, and Bernard King who were very very successful players who scored a lot of points. With his NCAA chip and two gold metals Melo is likely a HOF player if he can sustain this level of play for a few more years.

Maybe its just expectations that he can't fulfil that drives the critics against him? Ewing walked a similar path because he was drafted no. 1 and played in NY. Difference is Ewing was ours from day one as our draft pick. Melo came at a price that not all agreed with.

Nalod wrote:

knickscity wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Cash, if you like Melo your accused of being a homer. If you say something positive about the team your considered a homer and will have someone come and rebut your post. Its has become a lose, lose situation and I for one have been visiting here less because of it. Everything has become a tug of war, going from entertaining banter to out right virtual fights up in here. Really crazy for a Knicks Forum.

The team can win a title and some of these dudes will complain about how it was won.

Yes but the complaints will be at a higher level!

Lets win a title first then figure the rest out.

I think the arguement is not so much the player but he level of love he gets from some.

My "Mooby" depiction is not a knock on Melo himself (his play speaks for itself) but instant love he received as a savior by starstruck fans.

Sometimes the "knock" is not the player but the fan who builds him up with obvious bias to justify their view.

NYKMentality is a perfect example of this. He even points to Denver's record under Nick Van Excel and says how great Melo ALONE has helped that franchise.

Melo if not for Lebron or Detroits ignorance in most years would be the no. 1 overall selection. With great fanfair he has had a very very good career and with that comes very high expectations. He entertains but his contribution to winning is questioned. Does he make those around him better? ETC etc........and many threads and thousands of posts on this subject.

IN the end, he is what his stats and team record are. When his team advances and perhaps wins a chip he will be elevated to a higher status.

Until then he is Glenn Robinson, Glenn Rice, and Bernard King who were very very successful players who scored a lot of points. With his NCAA chip and two gold metals Melo is likely a HOF player if he can sustain this level of play for a few more years.

Maybe its just expectations that he can't fulfil that drives the critics against him? Ewing walked a similar path because he was drafted no. 1 and played in NY. Difference is Ewing was ours from day one as our draft pick. Melo came at a price that not all agreed with.

I dont think anyone on this board praises Melo more than the folks that dont' care for him.

It's definitely outnumbered.

But i agree had been drafted as a Knick the feelings would be different.

knickscity wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knickscity wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Cash, if you like Melo your accused of being a homer. If you say something positive about the team your considered a homer and will have someone come and rebut your post. Its has become a lose, lose situation and I for one have been visiting here less because of it. Everything has become a tug of war, going from entertaining banter to out right virtual fights up in here. Really crazy for a Knicks Forum.

The team can win a title and some of these dudes will complain about how it was won.

Yes but the complaints will be at a higher level!

Lets win a title first then figure the rest out.

I think the arguement is not so much the player but he level of love he gets from some.

My "Mooby" depiction is not a knock on Melo himself (his play speaks for itself) but instant love he received as a savior by starstruck fans.

Sometimes the "knock" is not the player but the fan who builds him up with obvious bias to justify their view.

NYKMentality is a perfect example of this. He even points to Denver's record under Nick Van Excel and says how great Melo ALONE has helped that franchise.

Melo if not for Lebron or Detroits ignorance in most years would be the no. 1 overall selection. With great fanfair he has had a very very good career and with that comes very high expectations. He entertains but his contribution to winning is questioned. Does he make those around him better? ETC etc........and many threads and thousands of posts on this subject.

IN the end, he is what his stats and team record are. When his team advances and perhaps wins a chip he will be elevated to a higher status.

Until then he is Glenn Robinson, Glenn Rice, and Bernard King who were very very successful players who scored a lot of points. With his NCAA chip and two gold metals Melo is likely a HOF player if he can sustain this level of play for a few more years.

Maybe its just expectations that he can't fulfil that drives the critics against him? Ewing walked a similar path because he was drafted no. 1 and played in NY. Difference is Ewing was ours from day one as our draft pick. Melo came at a price that not all agreed with.

I dont think anyone on this board praises Melo more than the folks that dont' care for him.

It's definitely outnumbered.

But i agree had been drafted as a Knick the feelings would be different.

Im not quite sure about that. They are redundant so they seem like there are more of them. I call it "Lumping".

A lot of that goes on from both sides. I think I did a poll months ago and we kind of figured there were only 6 true haters of the Melo. Its not always melo hate but distain for the franchise that empowered him. Granted, he is not evil or abusive like when the Franchise empowered Marbury and he about took it apart!

I don't really know how many "Moobyites" there are.

Gallo got a lot of love for the same reason Melo gets his, the home town hero. Gallo we hoped woud fulfil that role. Melo was a star so its natural in NY to embrace that, even to the extreme.

NYKBocker wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Cash, if you like Melo your accused of being a homer. If you say something positive about the team your considered a homer and will have someone come and rebut your post. Its has become a lose, lose situation and I for one have been visiting here less because of it. Everything has become a tug of war, going from entertaining banter to out right virtual fights up in here. Really crazy for a Knicks Forum.

I don't remember such a player in Knick history that has divided the fan base so much. Obviously, it has a lot to do with how he was acquired. If Dolan let Donnie manage the team then I think Melo would have been seen in a better light with all Knick fans.

I have been a homer since I can remember but the last couple of year of mismanagement has taken out a lot of the luster. From Spree to KVH to DLee to Gallo to Lin. It was a slow march but when I got there I was numb.

I still want the Knicks to win but if they get tossed in the 1st round then they need to blow this up quick. The fastest way to blow it up is by lighting the biggest keg and that is Melo.

bingo... THis is exactly how I feel, especially the part in bold.. All of this has allowed me to step back and look at this team a bit more objectively, and honestly it has been the best thing for me, when it comes to rooting for this organization....

The fastest way to blow it up is by lighting the biggest keg and that is Melo.

For me, that would be move number one!!! start there and work your way throughout the whole organization.. top to bottom... even change out the ball boys....

tkf wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Cash, if you like Melo your accused of being a homer. If you say something positive about the team your considered a homer and will have someone come and rebut your post. Its has become a lose, lose situation and I for one have been visiting here less because of it. Everything has become a tug of war, going from entertaining banter to out right virtual fights up in here. Really crazy for a Knicks Forum.

I don't remember such a player in Knick history that has divided the fan base so much. Obviously, it has a lot to do with how he was acquired. If Dolan let Donnie manage the team then I think Melo would have been seen in a better light with all Knick fans.

I have been a homer since I can remember but the last couple of year of mismanagement has taken out a lot of the luster. From Spree to KVH to DLee to Gallo to Lin. It was a slow march but when I got there I was numb.

I still want the Knicks to win but if they get tossed in the 1st round then they need to blow this up quick. The fastest way to blow it up is by lighting the biggest keg and that is Melo.

bingo... THis is exactly how I feel, especially the part in bold.. All of this has allowed me to step back and look at this team a bit more objectively, and honestly it has been the best thing for me, when it comes to rooting for this organization....

The fastest way to blow it up is by lighting the biggest keg and that is Melo.

For me, that would be move number one!!! start there and work your way throughout the whole organization.. top to bottom... even change out the ball boys....

I would be pissed if they flamed out in the 1st round but, I think the blow up should come not at the end of this season but, that we should suffer through the next because then, Amare and the other contracts actually become very, very valuable. If handled right, we could have draft picks and young talent the likes of which New York has NEVER SEEN.

CashMoney wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Cash, if you like Melo your accused of being a homer. If you say something positive about the team your considered a homer and will have someone come and rebut your post. Its has become a lose, lose situation and I for one have been visiting here less because of it. Everything has become a tug of war, going from entertaining banter to out right virtual fights up in here. Really crazy for a Knicks Forum.

The reason I joined this forum was that it seemed to be a great place for die hard fans who knew their basketball. Lately not so much. IMHO, it's turned into a Rockets/Nuggets forum where any joy derived from a W or supporting your players is seen as being a homer. We have 30 games left on the season and people are already talking about how we're going to lose in the 1st round and how the team should be blown up. Sad when this is the best team we've had since the 90's.

No doubt that the team has been struggling over our last 30 but the season is not over and the second season (playoffs) haven't started but the season is over? The Rockets are 4 games over .500 and yet they're on the right track. The Nuggets are a terrible road team but the a force to be reckoned with? I don't get it.

Here's all you need to know to live and get by in the new "UK":
1) Melo is sheehit. Pure and simple. Accept that "fact", forget the facts, and move on. Spend a little time in the mirror trying to instantly free associate any facial blemishes with "the trade".
2) Gallo, Wilson and Moz and Cap Space were the future. Bright, happy, ebullient. It's all gone because of #1. It will never come back before prostate pain sets in. Ponder it over and over until you can spout the exact salary impacts of Denver's draft picks/trade moves from memory. Houston's too. Think about OKC. Force yourself to equate an erection with the sound of "Durant"
3) Youth is all there is. Despite Boston, Dallas and SanTone, this is a young mans game. Always will be. This is another "fact".
4) Dolan is the tick feeding on #1. He will be the other cause of any of your facial blemishes, tics and personal hygeine problems.
5) The past cannot be forgotten. Misery is to be revisited and discussed endlessly, like poking fresh puzzy.
6) Any Knick win can be explained by the following:
----------> poor competition
----------> good competition with bad road record
----------> good competition bothered by hurricanes, horrible deaths, other current events
----------> competition playing too many games
----------> competition has injury problems
----------> poor ref performance
----------> actually should have been a loss, due to:
------------------> poor defensive effort
------------------> not winning by acceptable margin
------------------> not putting team away soon enough
------------------> not getting competition to forfeit by the 2 minute mark of the second quarter
------------------> relying too heavily on:
-------------------------> StarMooby and his idiotic, 3rd century shot selection/skill set
-------------------------> making three point shots
-------------------------> mimicing MDA when it's clearly not allowed
-------------------------> not moving the ball enough
-------------------------> too many hockey assists

This should keep you happy and posting for years to come!

Jmpasq wrote:Its just hard to build a team around Carmelo Anthony. How do u find the perfect niche forward to go along with him. U need a Forward thats quick enough to guard SF's and tall and strong enough to guard Bigger PF's and he has to hit 20 foot jump shots, good luck finding that. Wallace in his prime would of been a great fit probably why the Knicks played well when he was in the line up

I agree but Jared Dudley, Wilson Chandler, Marvin Williams, Channing Frye, AK47 among others are all attainable combo forwards that fit the bill in most ways. Not saying they all fit perfect, but these complimentary players are out there and can be had.