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Sheridan: Shumps people want a deal
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dk7th
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2/17/2013  10:45 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
holfresh wrote:
jaydh wrote:I don't get why we just don't start Felton/Shump/Brewer/Anthony/Chandler. We don't need Brewer to shoot but we need his D and scrapiness. Then Shump goes back to his natural position. Shump is a special player, I would hate to see him go.

I think Amare comes back to the starting line up and Shrump moves to the 2..I think that's always been the plan but the NY media likes drama..

This x 100000000

You don't keep $100mil on the bench

you do when key players don't mesh and the result is subtraction by addition. this has been the issue since february 2011.... the knicks have deep, perhaps even systemic, issues no matter what they try and do.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
AUTOADVERT
mrKnickShot
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2/17/2013  10:45 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
holfresh wrote:
jaydh wrote:I don't get why we just don't start Felton/Shump/Brewer/Anthony/Chandler. We don't need Brewer to shoot but we need his D and scrapiness. Then Shump goes back to his natural position. Shump is a special player, I would hate to see him go.

I think Amare comes back to the starting line up and Shrump moves to the 2..I think that's always been the plan but the NY media likes drama..

This x 100000000

You don't keep $100mil on the bench

I don't see how money directly correlates to starting / playing time.
Vmart
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2/17/2013  10:46 AM
misterearl wrote:Exactly

CashMoney wrote:Shump isn't going anywhere. Would love to see him at SG though....he's not a SF.

Felton
Shumpert
Novak (yeah, I said it)
Anthony
Chandler

You are putting a defense that would be a huge liability. You might want to insert Amare and get back to conventional basketball. Like it or not Shumpert is nowhere near starting material. He needs to recover from his injury if you saw last game he was heavily favoring his knee when going to the ground. Clyde always say the game of basketball is mental and Shumpert isn't there.

There is no way I would start Novack he is a offensive liability too as well as defensive. That starting spot is Amare' s. MELO IS NOT A PF. Once Woody comes to grips with that the team will get better quick. If for some reason Shumpert wants out then send him to Orland in a deal for Affalo.
gunsnewing
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2/17/2013  10:52 AM
dk7th wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
holfresh wrote:
jaydh wrote:I don't get why we just don't start Felton/Shump/Brewer/Anthony/Chandler. We don't need Brewer to shoot but we need his D and scrapiness. Then Shump goes back to his natural position. Shump is a special player, I would hate to see him go.

I think Amare comes back to the starting line up and Shrump moves to the 2..I think that's always been the plan but the NY media likes drama..

This x 100000000

You don't keep $100mil on the bench

you do when key players don't mesh and the result is subtraction by addition. this has been the issue since february 2011.... the knicks have deep, perhaps even systemic, issues no matter what they try and do.

Dantoni was the issue. The 3 of them play great together. Problem is neither can defend a lick. Except for Tyson every once in a while
mrKnickShot
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2/17/2013  10:55 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
dk7th wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
holfresh wrote:
jaydh wrote:I don't get why we just don't start Felton/Shump/Brewer/Anthony/Chandler. We don't need Brewer to shoot but we need his D and scrapiness. Then Shump goes back to his natural position. Shump is a special player, I would hate to see him go.

I think Amare comes back to the starting line up and Shrump moves to the 2..I think that's always been the plan but the NY media likes drama..

This x 100000000

You don't keep $100mil on the bench

you do when key players don't mesh and the result is subtraction by addition. this has been the issue since february 2011.... the knicks have deep, perhaps even systemic, issues no matter what they try and do.

Dantoni was the issue. The 3 of them play great together. Problem is neither can defend a lick. Except for Tyson every once in a while

I don't think that Amare and Tyson play well together. They get in each others way far too often.
VCoug
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2/17/2013  10:56 AM
smackeddog wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:I wonder how many on here will still say how Shumpert was a better pick than Faried

Just sayin

Shump was/is just another player/YUTE overrated by this fan base

Excellent defender (at least he was and will hopefully he will regain) / horrible offender

You realize you can win any draft with the benefit of hindsight?

OK, but wanting Faried isn't necessarily hindsight. Several of us, myself included, wanted Faried in that draft.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
gunsnewing
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2/17/2013  11:01 AM
Knicks need was at 2-guard. PF wasn't on their mind with Amare coming off a 26ppg season
knickscity
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2/17/2013  11:01 AM
VCoug wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:I wonder how many on here will still say how Shumpert was a better pick than Faried

Just sayin

Shump was/is just another player/YUTE overrated by this fan base

Excellent defender (at least he was and will hopefully he will regain) / horrible offender

You realize you can win any draft with the benefit of hindsight?

OK, but wanting Faried isn't necessarily hindsight. Several of us, myself included, wanted Faried in that draft.


Were you happy with Shumps performance last season? If you say yes, then it's hindsight.
mrKnickShot
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2/17/2013  11:04 AM
knickscity wrote:
VCoug wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:I wonder how many on here will still say how Shumpert was a better pick than Faried

Just sayin

Shump was/is just another player/YUTE overrated by this fan base

Excellent defender (at least he was and will hopefully he will regain) / horrible offender

You realize you can win any draft with the benefit of hindsight?

OK, but wanting Faried isn't necessarily hindsight. Several of us, myself included, wanted Faried in that draft.


Were you happy with Shumps performance last season? If you say yes, then it's hindsight.

Offense? NOT

Defense? Certainly
VCoug
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2/17/2013  11:05 AM
gunsnewing wrote:Knicks need was at 2-guard. PF wasn't on their mind with Amare coming off a 26ppg season

You never draft for need, always draft for talent.

knickscity wrote:
VCoug wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:I wonder how many on here will still say how Shumpert was a better pick than Faried

Just sayin

Shump was/is just another player/YUTE overrated by this fan base

Excellent defender (at least he was and will hopefully he will regain) / horrible offender

You realize you can win any draft with the benefit of hindsight?

OK, but wanting Faried isn't necessarily hindsight. Several of us, myself included, wanted Faried in that draft.


Were you happy with Shumps performance last season? If you say yes, then it's hindsight.

No, that's not hindsight. Hindsight is if I had wanted Shump more than Faried and now, two years later, regretting that we didn't draft Faried.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
dk7th
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2/17/2013  11:05 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
dk7th wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
holfresh wrote:
jaydh wrote:I don't get why we just don't start Felton/Shump/Brewer/Anthony/Chandler. We don't need Brewer to shoot but we need his D and scrapiness. Then Shump goes back to his natural position. Shump is a special player, I would hate to see him go.

I think Amare comes back to the starting line up and Shrump moves to the 2..I think that's always been the plan but the NY media likes drama..

This x 100000000

You don't keep $100mil on the bench

you do when key players don't mesh and the result is subtraction by addition. this has been the issue since february 2011.... the knicks have deep, perhaps even systemic, issues no matter what they try and do.

Dantoni was the issue. The 3 of them play great together. Problem is neither can defend a lick. Except for Tyson every once in a while

as i have said, when your core group is not comprised of complete players, legit two-way players, it really doesn't matter what you do tradewise. who among the core of the team is a complete, two-way player?

this is the problem. good news is that we saw some promising basketball the first 10 games. i really don't know why we dropped off after that but woodson is the coach so.... anyway we get back to that level then we are going to be able to achieve our goals.

if we don't then woodson should be fired and dolan should consider smashing his shiny toy.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
dk7th
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2/17/2013  11:07 AM
VCoug wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Knicks need was at 2-guard. PF wasn't on their mind with Amare coming off a 26ppg season

You never draft for need, always draft for talent.

knickscity wrote:
VCoug wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:I wonder how many on here will still say how Shumpert was a better pick than Faried

Just sayin

Shump was/is just another player/YUTE overrated by this fan base

Excellent defender (at least he was and will hopefully he will regain) / horrible offender

You realize you can win any draft with the benefit of hindsight?

OK, but wanting Faried isn't necessarily hindsight. Several of us, myself included, wanted Faried in that draft.


Were you happy with Shumps performance last season? If you say yes, then it's hindsight.

No, that's not hindsight. Hindsight is if I had wanted Shump more than Faried and now, two years later, regretting that we didn't draft Faried.

is there any scenario where you do draft for need in basketball? not a rhetorical question here, i want to know what's behind the statement.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
gunsnewing
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2/17/2013  11:12 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/17/2013  11:13 AM
and Shumpert gave the Knicks a 2nd ball handler which Fields was not
gunsnewing
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2/17/2013  11:14 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/17/2013  11:24 AM
I wanted Ron Artest over Frederic Weis and Rondo over Balkman and Bynum over Frye

Hindsight sucks
gunsnewing
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2/17/2013  11:15 AM
At least Shumpert isn't a bum like Weis, Balkman and Frye
Bonn1997
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2/17/2013  11:15 AM
smackeddog wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:I wonder how many on here will still say how Shumpert was a better pick than Faried

Just sayin

Shump was/is just another player/YUTE overrated by this fan base

Excellent defender (at least he was and will hopefully he will regain) / horrible offender

You realize you can win any draft with the benefit of hindsight?


Look at the win shares per 48 min (the last column) for the college performances of the players from the 2011 draft. Faried was #1. It was clear that he'd have a very good chance of succeeding in the NBA.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2011.html
gunsnewing
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2/17/2013  11:16 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/17/2013  11:17 AM
Faried was looked at as being another undersized role player. Not only by the Knicks but by 29 other teams
StarksEwing1
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2/17/2013  11:19 AM
It was bad luck that the ACL tear happened. I remember thinking right after it happened that it was gonna be a while until shump can get back to what he was. Sure he was never a big offensive threat but his quickness and tremendous defense made us a better team. I dont want to trade him but i fear he may not ever get back to being 100% and if certain teams are willing to offer something good we have to look into it
MSG3
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2/17/2013  11:19 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:I wonder how many on here will still say how Shumpert was a better pick than Faried

Just sayin

Shump was/is just another player/YUTE overrated by this fan base

Excellent defender (at least he was and will hopefully he will regain) / horrible offender

You realize you can win any draft with the benefit of hindsight?


Look at the win shares per 48 min (the last column) for the college performances of the players from the 2011 draft. Faried was #1. It was clear that he'd have a very good chance of succeeding in the NBA.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2011.html

Still very disappointed we didn't take Faried over Shump. I like Shump, but he's not untouchable by any stretch. I just worry we're going to give him away in a panic move. Him for Dudley straight up is an example of giving him away.
mrKnickShot
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2/17/2013  11:20 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/17/2013  11:20 AM
gunsnewing wrote:I wanted Ron Artest over Frederic Weiss and Rondo over Balkman and Bynum over Frye

Hindsight sucks

Check out this poll

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=41929&page=2

Check out the date

Guess who you voted for ...

This has nothing to do with hindsight. We all saw them both for a year.
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