mrKnickShot wrote:I think that many here would be happy with BEAUTIFUL playoff-less basketball

As long as our players were young and sexy

Why would any fan think that? When we had the kids and Amar'e we expected playoffs and progress from them. Prior to the seasons before, that's what we were showing. Go look at the season's prior to and find out how long it took us to get to 28wins

The same thing stated in CrushAlot's post Melo era

Here's the difference since Melo is considered so much greater than the sum of previous parts STANDARDS ARE MUCH HIGHER than when we had the kids

Baby Stepping is unacceptable in every set of circumstance going forward

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I think that many here would be happy with BEAUTIFUL playoff-less basketball

As long as our players were young and sexy

Why would any fan think that? When we had the kids and Amar'e we expected playoffs and progress from them. Prior to the seasons before, that's what we were showing. Go look at the season's prior to and find out how long it took us to get to 28wins

The same thing stated in CrushAlot's post Melo era

Here's the difference since Melo is considered so much greater than the sum of previous parts STANDARDS ARE MUCH HIGHER than when we had the kids

Baby Stepping is unacceptable in every set of circumstance going forward

exactly.... no need to make one of the biggest deals in NBA history that shortens your window, and then now talk baby steps.... NO, standards are much higher as you said...

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I think that many here would be happy with BEAUTIFUL playoff-less basketball

As long as our players were young and sexy

Why would any fan think that? When we had the kids and Amar'e we expected playoffs and progress from them. Prior to the seasons before, that's what we were showing. Go look at the season's prior to and find out how long it took us to get to 28wins

The same thing stated in CrushAlot's post Melo era

Here's the difference since Melo is considered so much greater than the sum of previous parts STANDARDS ARE MUCH HIGHER than when we had the kids

Baby Stepping is unacceptable in every set of circumstance going forward

We got better because we made the dumb "VERY SHORT SIGHTED / SMALL WINDOW" move to sign a talented yet brittle as a bird - Amare.

If we waited a bit longer and were not so impatient, we could have possible gotten a 5 year 100 million dollar player who can actually give us 5 productive seasons (or at least more than .5 seasons)

I know - he made us relevant. Relevant in that we made the dumbest signing in the NBA since Allen Houston. No other offers other than PHX's 3 year offer - yet we decided to be buffoons. Shouldn't this arch a brow?

Talk about all in!

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I think that many here would be happy with BEAUTIFUL playoff-less basketball

As long as our players were young and sexy

Why would any fan think that? When we had the kids and Amar'e we expected playoffs and progress from them. Prior to the seasons before, that's what we were showing. Go look at the season's prior to and find out how long it took us to get to 28wins

The same thing stated in CrushAlot's post Melo era

Here's the difference since Melo is considered so much greater than the sum of previous parts STANDARDS ARE MUCH HIGHER than when we had the kids

Baby Stepping is unacceptable in every set of circumstance going forward

We got better because we made the dumb "VERY SHORT SIGHTED / SMALL WINDOW" move to sign a talented yet brittle as a bird - Amare.

If we waited a bit longer and were not so impatient, we could have possible gotten a 5 year 100 million dollar player who can actually give us 5 productive seasons (or at least more than .5 seasons)

I know - he made us relevant. Relevant in that we made the dumbest signing in the NBA since Allen Houston. No other offers other than PHX's 3 year offer - yet we decided to be buffoons. Shouldn't this arch a brow?

Talk about all in!

Never liked the Amar'e signing. If anyone paid attention to his season leading to 2010 he had so many underwhelming performances for someone who wanted to claim $100mil. Unfortunately Lebron played us harder than a fiddle we began to scramble for anyone who'd sign. No choice but to save face. It happened to be him. But let's give Amar'e credit in that he had an incredible half season run and we were beating teams like the Spurs/Bulls/Miami/OKC/Denver and he got run into the ground like no other by D'AnToni. He simply wasn't a horse you hitch your wagon to. To be honest I think of all the things that saved us(sorta) it was the Amnesty Provision by the CBA not the Melo trade.

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I think that many here would be happy with BEAUTIFUL playoff-less basketball

As long as our players were young and sexy

Why would any fan think that? When we had the kids and Amar'e we expected playoffs and progress from them. Prior to the seasons before, that's what we were showing. Go look at the season's prior to and find out how long it took us to get to 28wins

The same thing stated in CrushAlot's post Melo era

Here's the difference since Melo is considered so much greater than the sum of previous parts STANDARDS ARE MUCH HIGHER than when we had the kids

Baby Stepping is unacceptable in every set of circumstance going forward

We got better because we made the dumb "VERY SHORT SIGHTED / SMALL WINDOW" move to sign a talented yet brittle as a bird - Amare.

If we waited a bit longer and were not so impatient, we could have possible gotten a 5 year 100 million dollar player who can actually give us 5 productive seasons (or at least more than .5 seasons)

I know - he made us relevant. Relevant in that we made the dumbest signing in the NBA since Allen Houston. No other offers other than PHX's 3 year offer - yet we decided to be buffoons. Shouldn't this arch a brow?

Talk about all in!

Never liked the Amar'e signing. If anyone paid attention to his season leading to 2010 he had so many underwhelming performances for someone who wanted to claim $100mil. Unfortunately Lebron played us harder than a fiddle we began to scramble for anyone who'd sign. No choice but to save face. It happened to be him. But let's give Amar'e credit in that he had an incredible half season run and we were beating teams like the Spurs/Bulls/Miami/OKC/Denver and he got run into the ground like no other by D'AnToni. He simply wasn't a horse you hitch your wagon to. To be honest I think of all the things that saved us(sorta) it was the Amnesty Provision by the CBA.

Fair enough.

I just can't give a guy "credit" when he plays .5 seasons out of a 5 year 100 million dollar contract.

CBA / amnesty helped us but it might hurt us down the line - and is also a bit short sighted. It was the ultimate "all in" move though it may have been the correct one. I am mixed on this.

That 2010 team was spiraling fast - we all saw that.

As far as the Melo signing, not my type of player and I REALLY wanted Deron.

Looking at it now, Melo is/was the better choice (though he is still frustrating). I have come to like Deron's game less and less.

If you would take a survey of NBA scouts today, they would unanimously say that the knicks did extremely well in the Melo trade. Denver did okay (not great - time will tell). They also drafted the manimal and opened up a spot for Ty Lawson which both helped them stay a good team. Gallo is good but far below scouts original expectations. I LOVED chandler but he has been a complete no show.

People don't like him and say he forced his way here? And that he should have waited until the off season? That he bamboozled MDA? Maybe, maybe not. Some true and some not.

We are a far better team today for whatever reason.

Lets MAXIMIZE are shot during this small window.

I look at the Knicks/Nugz trade much like the Grizz/Lakers trade. The big difference the Lakers had championship pedigree on the team already and their window was still open for business. Yes Lakers instantly got the better piece but as time has gone by the Grizzlies have become a stronger force year after year and the Lakers are waning. If the Lakers played the Grizzlies in a 7gm series right now they'd lose.

We don't have a window like theirs that's wide open for business, it's barely cracked enough to let the morning breeze in. We added some championship pedigree type players but they aren't all peak, we have limited room for improvement and small margin of error. See the Lakers could lose a player like Bynum and still get to the Finals something like that couldn't happen to us.

Denver's schedule

Here's something to note about Denver. According to the NBA RPI(SOS) they have played the 4rth toughest schedule in the NBA. I've followed it since about the 2nd week of the season and they've been in the Top 7 all year. For the record we're currently tied for 15th and have been just above Top 10 but near middle all year. Denver played 12 of their first 17gms on the road...when they get to game 32 of the season they will have played 22 of 32gms on the road and of those 32gms 18 of them are currently against playoff teams or teams who have been near playoff team all season...BRUTALITY at it's finest in terms of scheduling....

Denver's Player Assets

They have talented wings still relatively young only 1 with a red flag at the moment in Chandler(25)(talented bad hip)...Jordan Hamilton(22)(talented) Evan Fournier(20)(talented), Anthony Randolph(23)(talented), Gallo(24)(talented), Corey Brewer(26)(talented), Iggy(28)(talented)

Denver's Pick(s)

2013

1rst
Their Own

2nd
Blazers Top 40 protected
Warriors
Their own Top 40 protected to Lakers

2014

1rst
Less favorable of their pick vs ours to Magic

2nd
Their own if not conveyed to Lakers in 2013
Blazers unprotected

2015

1rst
Their Own

2nd
Clippers

2016

1rst
More favorable of their pick vs ours

2nd
Grizzlies
Their Own

Now ask yourself what would stop the Nuggets from being relevant for yrs to come or improve from where they are at now with all of this on the table, considering they are currently a playoff caliber team?

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I think that many here would be happy with BEAUTIFUL playoff-less basketball

As long as our players were young and sexy

Why would any fan think that? When we had the kids and Amar'e we expected playoffs and progress from them. Prior to the seasons before, that's what we were showing. Go look at the season's prior to and find out how long it took us to get to 28wins

The same thing stated in CrushAlot's post Melo era

Here's the difference since Melo is considered so much greater than the sum of previous parts STANDARDS ARE MUCH HIGHER than when we had the kids

Baby Stepping is unacceptable in every set of circumstance going forward

We got better because we made the dumb "VERY SHORT SIGHTED / SMALL WINDOW" move to sign a talented yet brittle as a bird - Amare.

If we waited a bit longer and were not so impatient, we could have possible gotten a 5 year 100 million dollar player who can actually give us 5 productive seasons (or at least more than .5 seasons)

I know - he made us relevant. Relevant in that we made the dumbest signing in the NBA since Allen Houston. No other offers other than PHX's 3 year offer - yet we decided to be buffoons. Shouldn't this arch a brow?

Talk about all in!

Never liked the Amar'e signing. If anyone paid attention to his season leading to 2010 he had so many underwhelming performances for someone who wanted to claim $100mil. Unfortunately Lebron played us harder than a fiddle we began to scramble for anyone who'd sign. No choice but to save face. It happened to be him. But let's give Amar'e credit in that he had an incredible half season run and we were beating teams like the Spurs/Bulls/Miami/OKC/Denver and he got run into the ground like no other by D'AnToni. He simply wasn't a horse you hitch your wagon to. To be honest I think of all the things that saved us(sorta) it was the Amnesty Provision by the CBA.

Fair enough.

I just can't give a guy "credit" when he plays .5 seasons out of a 5 year 100 million dollar contract.

CBA / amnesty helped us but it might hurt us down the line - and is also a bit short sighted. It was the ultimate "all in" move though it may have been the correct one. I am mixed on this.

That 2010 team was spiraling fast - we all saw that.

As far as the Melo signing, not my type of player and I REALLY wanted Deron.

Looking at it now, Melo is/was the better choice (though he is still frustrating). I have come to like Deron's game less and less.

If you would take a survey of NBA scouts today, they would unanimously say that the knicks did extremely well in the Melo trade. Denver did okay (not great - time will tell). They also drafted the manimal and opened up a spot for Ty Lawson which both helped them stay a good team. Gallo is good but far below scouts original expectations. I LOVED chandler but he has been a complete no show.

People don't like him and say he forced his way here? And that he should have waited until the off season? That he bamboozled MDA? Maybe, maybe not. Some true and some not.

We are a far better team today for whatever reason.

Lets MAXIMIZE are shot during this small window.

I look at the Knicks/Nugz trade much like the Grizz/Lakers trade. The big difference the Lakers had championship pedigree on the team already and their window was still open for business. Yes Lakers instantly got the better piece but as time has gone by the Grizzlies have become a stronger force year after year and the Lakers are waning. If the Lakers played the Grizzlies in a 7gm series right now they'd lose.

We don't have a window like theirs that's wide open for business, it's barely cracked enough to let the morning breeze in. We added some championship pedigree type players but they aren't all peak, we have limited room for improvement and small margin of error. See the Lakers could lose a player like Bynum and still get to the Finals something like that couldn't happen to us.

Denver's schedule

Here's something to note about Denver. According to the NBA RPI(SOS) they have played the 4rth toughest schedule in the NBA. I've followed it since about the 2nd week of the season and they've been in the Top 7 all year. For the record we're currently tied for 15th and have been just above Top 10 but near middle all year. Denver played 12 of their first 17gms on the road...when they get to game 32 of the season they will have played 22 of 32gms on the road and of those 32gms 18 of them are currently against playoff teams or teams who have been near playoff team all season...BRUTALITY at it's finest in terms of scheduling....

Denver's Player Assets

They have talented wings still relatively young only 1 with a red flag at the moment in Chandler(25)(talented bad hip)...Jordan Hamilton(22)(talented) Evan Fournier(20)(talented), Anthony Randolph(23)(talented), Gallo(24)(talented), Corey Brewer(26)(talented), Iggy(28)(talented)

Denver's Pick(s)

2013

1rst
Their Own

2nd
Blazers Top 40 protected
Warriors
Their own Top 40 protected to Lakers

2014

1rst
Less favorable of their pick vs ours to Magic

2nd
Their own if not conveyed to Lakers in 2013
Blazers unprotected

2015

1rst
Their Own

2nd
Clippers

2016

1rst
More favorable of their pick vs ours

2nd
Grizzlies
Their Own

Now ask yourself what would stop the Nuggets from being relevant for yrs to come or improve from where they are at now with all of this on the table, considering they are currently a playoff caliber team?

good work 3g.. very good work..

DurzoBlint wrote:TKF, you actually read all of that. Me, guess I'm too lazy cause when I see such a wordy post, my eyes glaze over and then the yawning starts

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G,

Didn't we lose our 100 million dollar superstar and we are still contending?

We have no idea how the Denver swaps will go.

They have talented but no championship type players.

Again, I ask you ... poll all the GM's and ask them if they would make the trade today and what do you (honestly) think the outcome would be?

Also, poll them if they would have made the Amare signing (that killed us). Do you wonder what that outcome would be? How about if we polled them prior to the 2010 season?

I think Denver made good moves and is a good franchise. However, I am not sure if they are or will be better than a 1st round playoff team.

Randolph? No need to even bring him up. Gallo? Big letdown. Iggy? A good player who has under performed. Faried? We should have drafted him (who knew?). Chandler is talented - very talented but always injured. I like lawson but not sure if he is a good enough to be the best player on a team - would love to have him over Felton - DUH!

Will we do better? I sure as hell hope so.

Right now we're 18-5 but prior to when we lost our $100mil star and we lost in the playoffs in back-to-back post seasons, near sweep fashion some were told Melo/Knicks didn't succeed because Amar'e had a bad back against Boston and Billups bum legs, the following post-season because the $100mil man punched a fire extinguisher and a rookie twisted up his knee.

Now that the $100mil man is possibly on his way back....the masses are nervous of his effect on current team success

So which is it MKS?

Is this a living in the moment while projecting out with guarantee of end results? I know you're not an Amar'e fan but come on this doesn't make sense to me.

Really you think I can poll GMs and get responses from them?

As far as what you think of the Nuggets young talent it may not be what other GMs think, especially GMs on teams who could use them like Washington/Bobcats/Sacramento/Hornets/Cleveland/Toronto/Pistons/Orlando and possibly a few fringe playoff teams like Lakers/Rockets/Portland

That is exactly the point.

I myself am worried that our 100 million dollar mega-bust will hurt us but does that not show something that we survived him?

You can't poll the GM's - sorry. It was meant as a what if - no need to avoid the question.

We lost in the post season in back to back years because we were awful. We had no guard play and Amare was what GM's thought he would be. Blame Melo because its convenient. Whatever.

What pct GM's (do you believe) would make that trade again???

Please answer this specific question.

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G,

Didn't we lose our 100 million dollar superstar and we are still contending?

We have no idea how the Denver swaps will go.

They have talented but no championship type players.

Again, I ask you ... poll all the GM's and ask them if they would make the trade today and what do you (honestly) think the outcome would be?

Also, poll them if they would have made the Amare signing (that killed us). Do you wonder what that outcome would be? How about if we polled them prior to the 2010 season?

I think Denver made good moves and is a good franchise. However, I am not sure if they are or will be better than a 1st round playoff team.

Randolph? No need to even bring him up. Gallo? Big letdown. Iggy? A good player who has under performed. Faried? We should have drafted him (who knew?). Chandler is talented - very talented but always injured. I like lawson but not sure if he is a good enough to be the best player on a team - would love to have him over Felton - DUH!

Will we do better? I sure as hell hope so.

Right now we're 18-5 but prior to when we lost our $100mil star and we lost in the playoffs in back-to-back post seasons, near sweep fashion some were told Melo/Knicks didn't succeed because Amar'e had a bad back against Boston and Billups bum legs, the following post-season because the $100mil man punched a fire extinguisher and a rookie twisted up his knee.

Now that the $100mil man is possibly on his way back....the masses are nervous of his effect on current team success

So which is it MKS?

Is this a living in the moment while projecting out with guarantee of end results? I know you're not an Amar'e fan but come on this doesn't make sense to me.

Really you think I can poll GMs and get responses from them?

As far as what you think of the Nuggets young talent it may not be what other GMs think, especially GMs on teams who could use them like Washington/Bobcats/Sacramento/Hornets/Cleveland/Toronto/Pistons/Orlando and possibly a few fringe playoff teams like Lakers/Rockets/Portland

That is exactly the point.

I myself am worried that our 100 million dollar mega-bust will hurt us but does that not show something that we survived him?

You can't poll the GM's - sorry. It was meant as a what if - no need to avoid the question.

We lost in the post season in back to back years because we were awful. We had no guard play and Amare was what GM's thought he would be. Blame Melo because its convenient. Whatever.

What pct GM's (do you believe) would make that trade again???

Please answer this specific question.

I think 50/50 especially if you go back to the beginning of the season. Last year if same question was in play what percentage would it have been say prior to Linsanity.

See what I did there?

Stop with the current scoreboard watching King Kong chest thumping. Knicks aren't going 72-10 and I doubt the Nuggets go 41-41 by the time the season ends.

I think it would have been (possibly) 50/50 under MDA.

Now? Probably 90/10.

Listen, you don't like the guy and believe it was a bad move? I can respect that. There are many players I can't stand. I don't even love Melo - he is not my type of player. I do love that he scares the shyt out of other teams and wish he can be smarter since he has all the gifts.

You don't like him or the trade and you will never give him any credit unless he wins it all (or maybe not even then)

I am hoping to reach the ECF. If that happens, It was a successful season for me (though I will be extremely pissed)

If you follow my posting, I am far from a homer and often can even be called a hater, I just disagree with the level of disdain that I don't see. If he is just your "hate" guy? Thats fine.

jrodmc wrote:Wow, a Somber hangout thread/mutual admiration society!

I almost wish I could join, but apparently you need to constantly relive the past while stating that's not what you're doing while posting in the present. And then seconding each other's motions.
Too complicated.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Youtube Melo thread.

astute!