NUPE wrote:This debate is getting so boring. Most know where I stand. I an going to try to limit my posting to game threads. Spent entirely too much time on this board yesterday! Looking forward to tonight's game.

Bonn1997 wrote:

NUPE wrote:This debate is getting so boring. Most know where I stand. I an going to try to limit my posting to game threads. Spent entirely too much time on this board yesterday! Looking forward to tonight's game.

+1. Same here.

Go a little lighter on the statical calculating, and you might have more time to enjoy life!

Bonn1997 wrote:You bumped this thread just to remind people that we've gotten off to a much better start than Denver has? That reeks of an "I told you"

This is a New York Knicks fan site. Right?

So, since when aren't we allowed to keep up with our Knicks/Nuggets trade and/or how both franchises are moving (direction wise) since the trade?

The Nuggets lost their last game while falling one game below .500 during their first full season without Carmelo Anthony leading the way, while our current Knicks team have gotten off to our strongest start since 1993-1994 (19 years to be exact) during our first full season with Melo leading the charge (as our franchise player).

No one asked you to click this link. No one asked you to take the time to view it. No one asked you to take the time to respond. But, that doesn't change the fact that I'll continue following both the Knicks and Nuggets very closely from here on out.

I'm not the one who's saying "I told you so" but our front office along with Carmelo Anthony is...

Bonn1997 wrote:You seem to have ignored the trivia question

You wanna ask trivia questions? Fine, create a thread for it.

NYKMentality wrote:At the time of the trade...
The Nuggets were 32-25 overall. 7 games above .500.
The Knicks were 28-26 overall. 2 games above .500.

Fast forward 21 months later during New York's first full season with Melo and/or Denver's first full season without Melo...

The Knicks are currently 15-5 overall. 10 games above .500. 1st seed of the East.
The Nuggets are currently 10-11 overall. 1 game below .500. 9th seed of the West.

Need I say more in regards to which franchise came out on top during this trade or should we dig a little deeper?

Let's take a look at player personnel (dating back to the trade when compared to as of right now). Where are they now?

The Knicks pretty much moved Raymond Felton, Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari and Timofey Mozgov (to Denver) along with both Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry (to Minnesota) in exchange for Carmelo Anthony himself. What a steal when taking an in depth analysis into the trade.

Maybe some of these naysaying negative critics and/or trade experts can explain to us all, in full detail, how and/or what the Knicks "lost" during our trade for Melo? Because let's be honest here, that's all we heard after the trade; Which was 'how much the Knicks lost'. Let's take a closer look, no?

* Did we "lose" Eddy Curry? Where's Curry as of right now? My guess is that Curry is a free agent after being released by San Antonio. Did we still "lose" Eddy Curry?

* What about AR15? Did we also "lose" Anthony Randolph? What has Anthony Randolph as a Denver Nugget done here in 2012-2013? Try an average of only 6.3 minutes, 1.0 points, 1.0 boards, 0.8 assists, 0.3 blocks and 0.8 turnovers per game. AR ranks dead last on Denver's team in regards to minutes per game. 13th man off their bench. Did we still "lose" Anthony Randolph? The experts said we did.

* Lets talk Timofey Mozgov. At the time of the trade we (actually) had Knick fans against the Melo trade, all because a rookie project Center from Russia in Mozgov was included as a 'throw in'. Here in 2012-2013 Mozgov has only averaged 13.6 minutes per game as Denver's 3rd string Center behind both Kosta Koufos and JaVale McGee. Only averaging 3.5 points, 4.5 boards and 0.6 blocks per game. Did we still "lose" a career backup/3rd stringer in Timofey Mozgov? Those negative critics said we did.

(Still trying to figure out exactly what "we lost" during the trade for an elite talent in Melo who's now became our franchise leader as the center piece of a currently 1st seed Knicks team). Because it wasn't Curry, Mozgov or Randolph.

* Did we also "lose" Wilson Chandler? Because the last time I checked Wilson Chandler is now 25 years of age, only played 8 games last season and has only recorded 70 minutes of playing time here in 2012-2013. Wilson Chandler has only played in 4 games due to injury. During these 4 games he's only averaged 6.5 points and 5.0 boards off 10/32 shooting (.313%). Did we still "lose" Wilson Chandler?

* Did we also "lose" Raymond Felton? He's actually returned to the Knicks while currently averaging 16.5 points and 6.8 assists per game. Only committing 2.3 turnovers per game.

To each his/her own, but if you believe that we lost Raymond Felton, I'd mention the fact that Felton has returned to our Knicks only 21 months later. If you believe that we lost Wilson Chandler, I'll rebuttal with J.R Smith who's (thus far) performed as a contender for the NBA's 6th Man of the Year award. If you truthfully believe that we lost out on Mozgov, I'll bring up the fact that we landed a championship winning Center in Tyson Chandler, a true defensive force, an impact Center along with being our reigning Defensive Player of the Year (landing Tyson Chandler only 10 months after the Melo trade). What has Mozgov since done? 13.6 minutes, 3.5 points, 4.5 boards and 0.6 blocks per game would be the correct answer. Now, if you (still) believe we lost out on the likes of Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry, I'll simply mention tough veterans such as Kurt Thomas and Rasheed Wallace and/or Marcus Camby when healthy.

This only leaves Danilo Gallinari as a player that we could've "lost" during our trade for Melo, but when in all actual reality we've gained an enormous amount of talent, potential and overall franchise hope in Carmelo Anthony. We replaced an overrated (soft) European player in Gallo with one of (if not) the greatest pure scorer this Knicks franchise has ever seen in Melo. Not even Ewing could score at Melo's rate. We landed a true franchise player. One of the best basketball players in the world (see the Olympics). A player in which we could begin to build our franchise around (as we have) in hopes for a championship title. Melo's the type of talent/star that every championship winning team must feature. A go-to-man. Take tonight's victory over Denver for example. With the game on the line, Melo stood out as an impact player and physically abused/destroyed Gallo during the 4th quarter. Melo went 5/6 for 11 points, 2 boards and 1 assist during the 4th quarter. Melo won this game during the clutch; which was the 4th quarter. The Knicks had (and have) our go-to-star during the closing moments. Denver's still looking for theirs... Because it's not Gallo.

We pretty much replaced Gallo with Melo. Melo's currently in the running for the leagues MVP here in 2012-2013. If only Gallo could ever say the same...

Melo: 26.4 points, 6.7 boards, 2.1 assists, 0.9 steals & 0.9 blocks per game. .457 FG% (.435 3PT%.
Gallo: 15.2 points, 6.1 boards, 2.8 assists, 0.6 steals & 0.6 blocks per game. .375 FG%. (.286 3PT%).

So once again... What have the Knicks "lost" during our trade for Carmelo Anthony? Melo's became our franchise leader. The center piece of a currently 15-5 Knicks team. Melo's by far the greatest player on a team that holds the number one seed here in the Eastern Conference.

Raymond Felton has returned to New York.
J.R Smith has replaced Wilson Chandler.
Tyson Chandler has replaced Timofey Mozgov.
Rasheed Wallace has replaced Anthony Randolph.
Kurt Thomas has replaced Eddy Curry.
Carmelo Anthony has replaced Danilo Gallinari.

So, once again, what exactly have we "lost" during our trade for our franchise player in Carmelo Anthony? If you mention our 2014 first round draft pick, I'll just mention the likes of Jason Kidd, Steve Novak, Ronnie Brewer and/or Iman Shumpert.

Once again, at the time of the trade...

The Nuggets were 32-25 overall. 7 games above .500.
The Knicks were 28-26 overall. 2 games above .500.

21 months later during New York's first full season with Melo and/or Denver's first full season without Melo...

The Knicks are currently 15-5 overall. 10 games above .500. 1st seed of the East.
The Nuggets are currently 10-11 overall. 1 game below .500. 9th seed of the West.

Seems like two franchises in which are moving in different directions...

First add some insight and/or knowledge, and then question me...

Not one Knicks fan who was and/or has been against the trade for Melo has been able to explain to me, in full detail, how the Knicks "lost the trade".

NYKMentality wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You seem to have ignored the trivia question

You wanna ask trivia questions? Fine, create a thread for it.

NYKMentality wrote:At the time of the trade...
The Nuggets were 32-25 overall. 7 games above .500.
The Knicks were 28-26 overall. 2 games above .500.

Fast forward 21 months later during New York's first full season with Melo and/or Denver's first full season without Melo...

The Knicks are currently 15-5 overall. 10 games above .500. 1st seed of the East.
The Nuggets are currently 10-11 overall. 1 game below .500. 9th seed of the West.

Need I say more in regards to which franchise came out on top during this trade or should we dig a little deeper?

Let's take a look at player personnel (dating back to the trade when compared to as of right now). Where are they now?

The Knicks pretty much moved Raymond Felton, Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari and Timofey Mozgov (to Denver) along with both Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry (to Minnesota) in exchange for Carmelo Anthony himself. What a steal when taking an in depth analysis into the trade.

Maybe some of these naysaying negative critics and/or trade experts can explain to us all, in full detail, how and/or what the Knicks "lost" during our trade for Melo? Because let's be honest here, that's all we heard after the trade; Which was 'how much the Knicks lost'. Let's take a closer look, no?

* Did we "lose" Eddy Curry? Where's Curry as of right now? My guess is that Curry is a free agent after being released by San Antonio. Did we still "lose" Eddy Curry?

* What about AR15? Did we also "lose" Anthony Randolph? What has Anthony Randolph as a Denver Nugget done here in 2012-2013? Try an average of only 6.3 minutes, 1.0 points, 1.0 boards, 0.8 assists, 0.3 blocks and 0.8 turnovers per game. AR ranks dead last on Denver's team in regards to minutes per game. 13th man off their bench. Did we still "lose" Anthony Randolph? The experts said we did.

* Lets talk Timofey Mozgov. At the time of the trade we (actually) had Knick fans against the Melo trade, all because a rookie project Center from Russia in Mozgov was included as a 'throw in'. Here in 2012-2013 Mozgov has only averaged 13.6 minutes per game as Denver's 3rd string Center behind both Kosta Koufos and JaVale McGee. Only averaging 3.5 points, 4.5 boards and 0.6 blocks per game. Did we still "lose" a career backup/3rd stringer in Timofey Mozgov? Those negative critics said we did.

(Still trying to figure out exactly what "we lost" during the trade for an elite talent in Melo who's now became our franchise leader as the center piece of a currently 1st seed Knicks team). Because it wasn't Curry, Mozgov or Randolph.

* Did we also "lose" Wilson Chandler? Because the last time I checked Wilson Chandler is now 25 years of age, only played 8 games last season and has only recorded 70 minutes of playing time here in 2012-2013. Wilson Chandler has only played in 4 games due to injury. During these 4 games he's only averaged 6.5 points and 5.0 boards off 10/32 shooting (.313%). Did we still "lose" Wilson Chandler?

* Did we also "lose" Raymond Felton? He's actually returned to the Knicks while currently averaging 16.5 points and 6.8 assists per game. Only committing 2.3 turnovers per game.

To each his/her own, but if you believe that we lost Raymond Felton, I'd mention the fact that Felton has returned to our Knicks only 21 months later. If you believe that we lost Wilson Chandler, I'll rebuttal with J.R Smith who's (thus far) performed as a contender for the NBA's 6th Man of the Year award. If you truthfully believe that we lost out on Mozgov, I'll bring up the fact that we landed a championship winning Center in Tyson Chandler, a true defensive force, an impact Center along with being our reigning Defensive Player of the Year (landing Tyson Chandler only 10 months after the Melo trade). What has Mozgov since done? 13.6 minutes, 3.5 points, 4.5 boards and 0.6 blocks per game would be the correct answer. Now, if you (still) believe we lost out on the likes of Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry, I'll simply mention tough veterans such as Kurt Thomas and Rasheed Wallace and/or Marcus Camby when healthy.

This only leaves Danilo Gallinari as a player that we could've "lost" during our trade for Melo, but when in all actual reality we've gained an enormous amount of talent, potential and overall franchise hope in Carmelo Anthony. We replaced an overrated (soft) European player in Gallo with one of (if not) the greatest pure scorer this Knicks franchise has ever seen in Melo. Not even Ewing could score at Melo's rate. We landed a true franchise player. One of the best basketball players in the world (see the Olympics). A player in which we could begin to build our franchise around (as we have) in hopes for a championship title. Melo's the type of talent/star that every championship winning team must feature. A go-to-man. Take tonight's victory over Denver for example. With the game on the line, Melo stood out as an impact player and physically abused/destroyed Gallo during the 4th quarter. Melo went 5/6 for 11 points, 2 boards and 1 assist during the 4th quarter. Melo won this game during the clutch; which was the 4th quarter. The Knicks had (and have) our go-to-star during the closing moments. Denver's still looking for theirs... Because it's not Gallo.

We pretty much replaced Gallo with Melo. Melo's currently in the running for the leagues MVP here in 2012-2013. If only Gallo could ever say the same...

Melo: 26.4 points, 6.7 boards, 2.1 assists, 0.9 steals & 0.9 blocks per game. .457 FG% (.435 3PT%.
Gallo: 15.2 points, 6.1 boards, 2.8 assists, 0.6 steals & 0.6 blocks per game. .375 FG%. (.286 3PT%).

So once again... What have the Knicks "lost" during our trade for Carmelo Anthony? Melo's became our franchise leader. The center piece of a currently 15-5 Knicks team. Melo's by far the greatest player on a team that holds the number one seed here in the Eastern Conference.

Raymond Felton has returned to New York.
J.R Smith has replaced Wilson Chandler.
Tyson Chandler has replaced Timofey Mozgov.
Rasheed Wallace has replaced Anthony Randolph.
Kurt Thomas has replaced Eddy Curry.
Carmelo Anthony has replaced Danilo Gallinari.

So, once again, what exactly have we "lost" during our trade for our franchise player in Carmelo Anthony? If you mention our 2014 first round draft pick, I'll just mention the likes of Jason Kidd, Steve Novak, Ronnie Brewer and/or Iman Shumpert.

Once again, at the time of the trade...

The Nuggets were 32-25 overall. 7 games above .500.
The Knicks were 28-26 overall. 2 games above .500.

21 months later during New York's first full season with Melo and/or Denver's first full season without Melo...

The Knicks are currently 15-5 overall. 10 games above .500. 1st seed of the East.
The Nuggets are currently 10-11 overall. 1 game below .500. 9th seed of the West.

Seems like two franchises in which are moving in different directions...

First add some insight and/or knowledge, and then question me...

Not one Knicks fan who was and/or has been against the trade for Melo has been able to explain to me, in full detail, how the Knicks "lost the trade".

ChuckBuck wrote:Read this on ESPN 5 for 5 this morning about Deron vs Melo, thought it was interesting.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-121219/nba-brooklyn-nets-vs-new-york-knicks

Fact or Fiction: The Knicks won the trade for Melo in 2011.

Gutierrez: Fact. This is kind of an easy one. It might not have looked like a slam dunk until this season, but Melo is a franchise-altering player and he has been playing like one of late. And just as a bonus, they got Raymond Felton back and playing like he did the first time around.

Hall: Fact, but trick question. Denver also did well in the trade -- the Nuggets are in nice shape after picking up Danilo Gallinari, et al. The Melo trade alone isn't a huge win without the follow-up wins: Resisting the urge to cash in on Linsanity, sticking with Mike Woodson, and this from July 12, 2012: Signed G Jason Kidd. Re-signed F Steve Novak.

Mason: Fact. Boy, did I get this wrong. I never saw Melo mutating into the unstoppable monster he has become. Meanwhile the players they gave up, most disappointingly Danilo Gallinari, haven't progressed as many expected. Pass the crow, please! I'll take mine extra crispy.

Silverman: Fact. I was a fairly outspoken critic of the James Dolan-led bidding frenzy (and it boggles the mind how good the Knicks might be if Melo had waited until free agency to take his talents to Times Square), but I'm pleased as punch to admit I was wrong. There isn't a Knicks fan alive with an operant cerebral cortex that wouldn't redo that deal in a heartbeat.

Wade: Fact. In a sport where only five players are allowed on the court at once, no package of assets headlined by Danilo Gallinari is worth more than Carmelo. In the NBA, there is the elite and then there is everyone else. Anthony is not everyone else. On the contrary, there is no one else like him.

Not that I'm surprised, just found it interesting that it was a unanimous "Fact" the Knicks won the trade amongst respected NBA journalists.

Gallo can't seem to catch a break.

"There isn't a Knicks fan alive with an operant cerebral cortex that wouldn't redo that deal in a heartbeat."

haha

I guess that you are NOT a Knick fan if you would not "redo" that deal.