Knixkik wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

Hey Fishy,
I'm normally with you, your posts are usually a voice of reason around here between the haters and the dreamers, but I have to disagree with you here. This team could not have done what it has over the last 3 games without a dominant scorer. Carmelo has been a huge part of the current run. When he's out, you can see the drop off on the offensive floor. Paul Pierce, maybe. But the other two you mentioned would not have had the offensive juice to give us that firepower.

Melo has become one of the most dangerous scorers in the post area. He draws the defense like few other players can. Teams prepare to defend him, not the other players mentioned above.

We are winning because the Knicks share the ball, take care of the ball and are defending great. Melo has certainly been a part of that. I predicted this team would win 50 games. The problem is this formula wont win in the playoffs. Never does.

Take away Melo's 3 and he's shooting 50% and with his rebounding and early commitment to defense he would be playing at an MVP level. Shot selection matters its the weak link in this guys game. Look at his FG%s in the playoffs. He shoots his teams out of games all the time. Heat game is perfect example... totally dominat first qtr and Melo shoots 4-18 the rest of the game. Thats the scoring we ride in the playoffs? There is a reason his teams always lose in the first round.

Look Im happy we are winning, but Phili looked awful, Mia didnt want to play and Melo is the same he always is. We have seen a spirited effort on defense before. His teams usually win about 50 games. Its what happens after that is a reason skeptical folks such as myself hope to see a different blue print. 3 games doesnt erase 10 years of getting **** on by this team!

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

Hey Fishy,
I'm normally with you, your posts are usually a voice of reason around here between the haters and the dreamers, but I have to disagree with you here. This team could not have done what it has over the last 3 games without a dominant scorer. Carmelo has been a huge part of the current run. When he's out, you can see the drop off on the offensive floor. Paul Pierce, maybe. But the other two you mentioned would not have had the offensive juice to give us that firepower.

Melo has become one of the most dangerous scorers in the post area. He draws the defense like few other players can. Teams prepare to defend him, not the other players mentioned above.

100% correct. I could not agree more. So why is he taking 6 threes a game? Because he's LAZY. Same players as always been. Talent is there, but so is the Antoine Walker shot selection.

We are winning because the Knicks share the ball, take care of the ball and are defending great. Melo has certainly been a part of that. I predicted this team would win 50 games. The problem is this formula wont win in the playoffs. Never does.

Take away Melo's 3 and he's shooting 50% and with his rebounding and early commitment to defense he would be playing at an MVP level. Shot selection matters its the weak link in this guys game. Look at his FG%s in the playoffs. He shoots his teams out of games all the time. Heat game is perfect example... totally dominat first qtr and Melo shoots 4-18 the rest of the game. Thats the scoring we ride in the playoffs? There is a reason his teams always lose in the first round.

Look Im happy we are winning, but Phili looked awful, Mia didnt want to play and Melo is the same he always is. We have seen a spirited effort on defense before. His teams usually win about 50 games. Its what happens after that is a reason skeptical folks such as myself hope to see a different blue print. 3 games doesnt erase 10 years of getting **** on by this team!

I agree he has not had success, but it was a loaded western conference all those years, much more than this eastern conference. I believe Lebron's Cavs would have struggled to get out of the 1st round as well. Melo's nuggets would have made it out of the 1st round a couple of those years in the east, that's a fact.

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

Hey Fishy,
I'm normally with you, your posts are usually a voice of reason around here between the haters and the dreamers, but I have to disagree with you here. This team could not have done what it has over the last 3 games without a dominant scorer. Carmelo has been a huge part of the current run. When he's out, you can see the drop off on the offensive floor. Paul Pierce, maybe. But the other two you mentioned would not have had the offensive juice to give us that firepower.

Melo has become one of the most dangerous scorers in the post area. He draws the defense like few other players can. Teams prepare to defend him, not the other players mentioned above.

100% correct. I could not agree more. So why is he taking 6 threes a game? Because he's LAZY. Same players as always been. Talent is there, but so is the Antoine Walker shot selection.

We are winning because the Knicks share the ball, take care of the ball and are defending great. Melo has certainly been a part of that. I predicted this team would win 50 games. The problem is this formula wont win in the playoffs. Never does.

Take away Melo's 3 and he's shooting 50% and with his rebounding and early commitment to defense he would be playing at an MVP level. Shot selection matters its the weak link in this guys game. Look at his FG%s in the playoffs. He shoots his teams out of games all the time. Heat game is perfect example... totally dominat first qtr and Melo shoots 4-18 the rest of the game. Thats the scoring we ride in the playoffs? There is a reason his teams always lose in the first round.

Look Im happy we are winning, but Phili looked awful, Mia didnt want to play and Melo is the same he always is. We have seen a spirited effort on defense before. His teams usually win about 50 games. Its what happens after that is a reason skeptical folks such as myself hope to see a different blue print. 3 games doesnt erase 10 years of getting **** on by this team!

I agree he has not had success, but it was a loaded western conference all those years, much more than this eastern conference. I believe Lebron's Cavs would have struggled to get out of the 1st round as well. Melo's nuggets would have made it out of the 1st round a couple of those years in the east, that's a fact.

Dont bring Lebron's Cavs into this. When people said Lebron was a poor defender in a couple years he turned himself into the best in the league. He's won the individual awards.. the things you CAN control even if your in a tough conference. All NBA, all NBA defense... If Melo was a great player who (like Ewing vs. Jordan or KG on Sota) was just stuck behind loaded teams he would have the individual awards. He's got nothing but a group of people who ensure every excuse is made when he fails. Thats a fact. Maybe his Knick legacy is different. So far not so much. Im hoping mate.. I really am. Im just a jaded Knick fan. Gonna take me more that 3 games... sorry. Its a nice start though

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:I don't get the logic that Melo needs to win a championship or we need to rebuild when the guys we traded for him have limited playoff results and the draft picks you want during the rebuilding process have 0 playoff results.

The plan you guys want to follow is not a guranteed championship winner. Look at Denver when they traded Dice for Camby and a lotto pick landing Nene and Skeet. Then landing Melo the following yr making that 3 lotto picks in 2yrs. Then witht there huge cap space signing Kenyon Martin the highest rated free agent of that class. Now according to some of you guys logic Denver threw away 9yrs figuring out that Melo wasn't a franchise championship winning player. Following the same exact plan that you guys want to execute.

Melo needs to win a championship or bust coming from an organization that won its first playoff game in 13yrs last yr.

LET me ask you.. what would be the reason holding onto a soon to be 30 year old carmelo( by that time) who will be making 20+ million a year? Other than hoping and wishing he becomes the star player you envision after 10 years in the league, why hold onto him at that price with what he offers?

Because its better then any alternative that you have brought to the table. Whats the plan if we rebuild and the players we bring in don't get it done. Does that mean that we are going to tear it down and rebuild again and keep doing that until we find a championship team. When are we going to stop being in a transitional period, putting our players in positions to fail, villifying them then kicking them out of NY. When are we going to put our players in a position to succeed, put complimentary players around them and form some type of stability.

So unless you have some proven championship calibre players that are waiting in the wings for the Knicks to build there roster with y don't we follow through and put Melo in a position to succeed, form some stability and see what he is really made of.

No it isn't... understand the key is to win a title, right? so how do you do that with a guy making max money and you can't build a winner with him being the face of the franchise. Most keep saying carmelo played a role as "the other guy" on the olympic team.. well ok, if that is the case then he should be getting paid like an allstar role player.. but.. carmelo is not taking a pay cut to play in NY..

The alternative would be to start building a team with a true franchise talent, or better yet, build a team with the same attributes of this team.. Defense, sharing the ball, but do it with younger players, cheaper salaries and more flexibility to make moves to get that franchise talent...

that is better than the plan of keeping carmelo well into his 30's listening to him tell us how much he is willing to change every year....

3G4G wrote:

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

You can insert other players as you know the board is extremely sensitive about certain players...But to go on...

Swap Melo with

Luol Deng we lose nothing - No post game

Rudy Gay we lose nothing - No post game

Joe Johnson we lose nothing - Can't play 4 spot

Thaddeus Young we lose nothing - Can't run pick and roll with Chandler, no handle

Aaron Afflalo we lose nothing - No post game

Klay Thompson we lose nothing - No post game

Ray Allen we lose nothing - No post game

Kawhai Leonard we lose nothing - No post game

Corrected

3G4G wrote:

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

You can insert other players as you know the board is extremely sensitive about certain players...But to go on...

Swap Melo with

Luol Deng we lose nothing

Rudy Gay we lose nothing

Joe Johnson we lose nothing

Thaddeus Young we lose nothing

Aaron Afflalo we lose nothing

Klay Thompson we lose nothing

Ray Allen we lose nothing

Kawhai Leonard we lose nothing

Look Im happy we are winning, but I said this was a 50 win team. MElo has been MElo. Dude's a good player. We have seen nothing new from him. There's a reason he's a whatever time all star.

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

fishmike wrote:Im glad we are winning games rather than losing

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

Hey Fishy,
I'm normally with you, your posts are usually a voice of reason around here between the haters and the dreamers, but I have to disagree with you here. This team could not have done what it has over the last 3 games without a dominant scorer. Carmelo has been a huge part of the current run. When he's out, you can see the drop off on the offensive floor. Paul Pierce, maybe. But the other two you mentioned would not have had the offensive juice to give us that firepower.

Melo has become one of the most dangerous scorers in the post area. He draws the defense like few other players can. Teams prepare to defend him, not the other players mentioned above.

100% correct. I could not agree more. So why is he taking 6 threes a game? Because he's LAZY. Same players as always been. Talent is there, but so is the Antoine Walker shot selection.

We are winning because the Knicks share the ball, take care of the ball and are defending great. Melo has certainly been a part of that. I predicted this team would win 50 games. The problem is this formula wont win in the playoffs. Never does.

Take away Melo's 3 and he's shooting 50% and with his rebounding and early commitment to defense he would be playing at an MVP level. Shot selection matters its the weak link in this guys game. Look at his FG%s in the playoffs. He shoots his teams out of games all the time. Heat game is perfect example... totally dominat first qtr and Melo shoots 4-18 the rest of the game. Thats the scoring we ride in the playoffs? There is a reason his teams always lose in the first round.

Look Im happy we are winning, but Phili looked awful, Mia didnt want to play and Melo is the same he always is. We have seen a spirited effort on defense before. His teams usually win about 50 games. Its what happens after that is a reason skeptical folks such as myself hope to see a different blue print. 3 games doesnt erase 10 years of getting **** on by this team!

I agree he has not had success, but it was a loaded western conference all those years, much more than this eastern conference. I believe Lebron's Cavs would have struggled to get out of the 1st round as well. Melo's nuggets would have made it out of the 1st round a couple of those years in the east, that's a fact.

the only fact is Melo's team fail in the playoffs and his supporters make more excuses for this player than I have ever heard. I read it all around here (my favorite is Melo = Kobe). I guess MElo has zero responsibility for his playoff failures? Zero responsibility for year after year of lousy post season shooting (go look up his Jamal Crawford like post season FG%). And why? Watch the games mate... he gets lazy and chucks shots. It happens time and time again.

Dont bring Lebron's Cavs into this. When people said Lebron was a poor defender in a couple years he turned himself into the best in the league. He's won the individual awards.. the things you CAN control even if your in a tough conference. All NBA, all NBA defense... If Melo was a great player who (like Ewing vs. Jordan or KG on Sota) was just stuck behind loaded teams he would have the individual awards. He's got nothing but a group of people who ensure every excuse is made when he fails. Thats a fact. Maybe his Knick legacy is different. So far not so much. Im hoping mate.. I really am. Im just a jaded Knick fan. Gonna take me more that 3 games... sorry. Its a nice start though

But even still those guys have not won, even as the man WITHOUT top talent themselves.

Jordan? No. Kobe? No. LeBron? No. Shaq? No.

Now whether Melo could have won with the same support those guys had? No way to know, but we do know those guys won nothing without top notch help.

The bar for me is winning, not the individual stuff, and it will always take a team to do it.

Do i think this team has it? Too soon to tell, but i won't knock what they have done so far, like some are.

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

You can insert other players as you know the board is extremely sensitive about certain players...But to go on...

Swap Melo with

Luol Deng we lose nothing - No post game

Rudy Gay we lose nothing - No post game

Joe Johnson we lose nothing - Can't play 4 spot

Thaddeus Young we lose nothing - Can't run pick and roll with Chandler, no handle

Aaron Afflalo we lose nothing - No post game

Klay Thompson we lose nothing - No post game

Ray Allen we lose nothing - No post game

Kawhai Leonard we lose nothing - No post game

Corrected

You realize we still score and shoot the 3ball at a high clip with Melo on the bench and no post player on the court right?

A credit to the 3 headed PG monster. Kidd rubbing off on everyone. Even JR dishes the rock to the open 3 ball shooter!

You can give credit to them..... it only supports my list above

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

You can insert other players as you know the board is extremely sensitive about certain players...But to go on...

Swap Melo with

Luol Deng we lose nothing - No post game

Rudy Gay we lose nothing - No post game

Joe Johnson we lose nothing - Can't play 4 spot

Thaddeus Young we lose nothing - Can't run pick and roll with Chandler, no handle

Aaron Afflalo we lose nothing - No post game

Klay Thompson we lose nothing - No post game

Ray Allen we lose nothing - No post game

Kawhai Leonard we lose nothing - No post game

Corrected

You realize we still score and shoot the 3ball at a high clip with Melo on the bench and no post player on the court right?

A credit to the 3 headed PG monster. Kidd rubbing off on everyone. Even JR dishes the rock to the open 3 ball shooter!

You can give credit to them..... it only supports my list above

No it doesn't, none of those guys are gameplanned for.

Exactly, no one doubles those players.