mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Lucky about what? that they are supremely talented? No

That they got to play with top flight HOFers like Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Gasol? Yes - they can thank their organizations for being competent and not making dumb signings that they would NEVER make - like Amare.

And yes ... Kobe alienated Shaq and PJax. Don't know why this is even a discussion.

or you can say the top flight HOFers got to play with them..... gasol was not a HOF player.. not before he came to play with Kobe, who was already established... there is no way to escape this bro.... adding gasol to carmelo doesn't get you rings.. adding wade to carmelo gets you nothing,..... the key is not getting carmelo help, but actually getting carmelo to help someone and he has shown that he really isn't in the business of helping anyone else but himself...

all conjecture that you are unable to qualify.

Can't say that he would win or is as good - I just can't/won't make statements like that unless I see it fail.

Spaghetti arguments will get you thrown out of court.

in the end bro.. those guys are winners.. carmelo= loser.. FACT.. end of story.. He hasn't gotten crap done, not on a team level and heck not even individually..... You can't run from that homie!

In the end, that is your argument. CONJECTURE / unqualified hot air.

I respect your hate / dislike for Carmelo. You have that right. However, using that to fit square arguments into round holes does not work.

Just say that you hate the guy - CASE CLOSED. No one can blame a fan for hating a player.

funny, your argument is based on..

Bad luck

He had no help

he needs gasol, shaq, etc

Lets wait and see

Who wouldn't want more money..

I dislike the guy for many reasons, but on top of that, he is overrated and doesn't win.. unless you can show me where I am wrong without using the " he didn't have", or " he needs another 20 years" argument then really, you don't have a valid defense here...

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Lucky about what? that they are supremely talented? No

That they got to play with top flight HOFers like Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Gasol? Yes - they can thank their organizations for being competent and not making dumb signings that they would NEVER make - like Amare.

And yes ... Kobe alienated Shaq and PJax. Don't know why this is even a discussion.

or you can say the top flight HOFers got to play with them..... gasol was not a HOF player.. not before he came to play with Kobe, who was already established... there is no way to escape this bro.... adding gasol to carmelo doesn't get you rings.. adding wade to carmelo gets you nothing,..... the key is not getting carmelo help, but actually getting carmelo to help someone and he has shown that he really isn't in the business of helping anyone else but himself...

all conjecture that you are unable to qualify.

Can't say that he would win or is as good - I just can't/won't make statements like that unless I see it fail.

Spaghetti arguments will get you thrown out of court.

in the end bro.. those guys are winners.. carmelo= loser.. FACT.. end of story.. He hasn't gotten crap done, not on a team level and heck not even individually..... You can't run from that homie!

In the end, that is your argument. CONJECTURE / unqualified hot air.

I respect your hate / dislike for Carmelo. You have that right. However, using that to fit square arguments into round holes does not work.

Just say that you hate the guy - CASE CLOSED. No one can blame a fan for hating a player.

funny, your argument is based on..

Bad luck

He had no help

he needs gasol, shaq, etc

Lets wait and see

Who wouldn't want more money..

I dislike the guy for many reasons, but on top of that, he is overrated and doesn't win.. unless you can show me where I am wrong without using the " he didn't have", or " he needs another 20 years" argument then really, you don't have a valid defense here...

I don't need to defend nor am I defending. I cannot defend him until he is in a valid situation that requires defending.

Other than team USA, I have never seen him surrounded with A-list talent. We all know how he did there. Kobe was awful and Tyson was not good enough to get on the floor.

That is not enough for me to go on. Trust me, I would be the first one to turn on him. I just don't see the evidence to do that at this point.

I have never seen him not give it his all in the playoffs. Sometimes all by himself. Some of his playoffs series, he shot a low pct but he was also triple and quadruple teamed. Sometimes he just did not shoot well.

I need evidence which is not there. There is no applicable case study other than Team USA which way too small of a sample size. Syracuse? Nah - won't go there. College is a different animal.

We have had this argument countless times. Let's put it to rest and agree to disagree.

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Lucky about what? that they are supremely talented? No

That they got to play with top flight HOFers like Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Gasol? Yes - they can thank their organizations for being competent and not making dumb signings that they would NEVER make - like Amare.

And yes ... Kobe alienated Shaq and PJax. Don't know why this is even a discussion.

or you can say the top flight HOFers got to play with them..... gasol was not a HOF player.. not before he came to play with Kobe, who was already established... there is no way to escape this bro.... adding gasol to carmelo doesn't get you rings.. adding wade to carmelo gets you nothing,..... the key is not getting carmelo help, but actually getting carmelo to help someone and he has shown that he really isn't in the business of helping anyone else but himself...

all conjecture that you are unable to qualify.

Can't say that he would win or is as good - I just can't/won't make statements like that unless I see it fail.

Spaghetti arguments will get you thrown out of court.

in the end bro.. those guys are winners.. carmelo= loser.. FACT.. end of story.. He hasn't gotten crap done, not on a team level and heck not even individually..... You can't run from that homie!

In the end, that is your argument. CONJECTURE / unqualified hot air.

I respect your hate / dislike for Carmelo. You have that right. However, using that to fit square arguments into round holes does not work.

Just say that you hate the guy - CASE CLOSED. No one can blame a fan for hating a player.

funny, your argument is based on..

Bad luck

He had no help

he needs gasol, shaq, etc

Lets wait and see

Who wouldn't want more money..

I dislike the guy for many reasons, but on top of that, he is overrated and doesn't win.. unless you can show me where I am wrong without using the " he didn't have", or " he needs another 20 years" argument then really, you don't have a valid defense here...

I don't need to defend nor am I defending. I cannot defend him until he is in a valid situation that requires defending.

Other than team USA, I have never seen him surrounded with A-list talent. We all know how he did there. Kobe was awful and Tyson was not good enough to get on the floor.

That is not enough for me to go on. Trust me, I would be the first one to turn on him. I just don't see the evidence to do that at this point.

I have never seen him not give it his all in the playoffs. Sometimes all by himself. Some of his playoffs series, he shot a low pct but he was also triple and quadruple teamed. Sometimes he just did not shoot well.

I need evidence which is not there. There is no applicable case study other than Team USA which way too small of a sample size. Syracuse? Nah - won't go there. College is a different animal.

We have had this argument countless times. Let's put it to rest and agree to disagree.

i ALREADy moved on.. better things to talk about than that clown.....

I agree, to dissagree..

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Lucky about what? that they are supremely talented? No

That they got to play with top flight HOFers like Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Gasol? Yes - they can thank their organizations for being competent and not making dumb signings that they would NEVER make - like Amare.

And yes ... Kobe alienated Shaq and PJax. Don't know why this is even a discussion.

or you can say the top flight HOFers got to play with them..... gasol was not a HOF player.. not before he came to play with Kobe, who was already established... there is no way to escape this bro.... adding gasol to carmelo doesn't get you rings.. adding wade to carmelo gets you nothing,..... the key is not getting carmelo help, but actually getting carmelo to help someone and he has shown that he really isn't in the business of helping anyone else but himself...

all conjecture that you are unable to qualify.

Can't say that he would win or is as good - I just can't/won't make statements like that unless I see it fail.

Spaghetti arguments will get you thrown out of court.

in the end bro.. those guys are winners.. carmelo= loser.. FACT.. end of story.. He hasn't gotten crap done, not on a team level and heck not even individually..... You can't run from that homie!

In the end, that is your argument. CONJECTURE / unqualified hot air.

I respect your hate / dislike for Carmelo. You have that right. However, using that to fit square arguments into round holes does not work.

Just say that you hate the guy - CASE CLOSED. No one can blame a fan for hating a player.

funny, your argument is based on..

Bad luck

He had no help

he needs gasol, shaq, etc

Lets wait and see

Who wouldn't want more money..

I dislike the guy for many reasons, but on top of that, he is overrated and doesn't win.. unless you can show me where I am wrong without using the " he didn't have", or " he needs another 20 years" argument then really, you don't have a valid defense here...

I don't need to defend nor am I defending. I cannot defend him until he is in a valid situation that requires defending.

Other than team USA, I have never seen him surrounded with A-list talent. We all know how he did there. Kobe was awful and Tyson was not good enough to get on the floor.

That is not enough for me to go on. Trust me, I would be the first one to turn on him. I just don't see the evidence to do that at this point.

I have never seen him not give it his all in the playoffs. Sometimes all by himself. Some of his playoffs series, he shot a low pct but he was also triple and quadruple teamed. Sometimes he just did not shoot well.

I need evidence which is not there. There is no applicable case study other than Team USA which way too small of a sample size. Syracuse? Nah - won't go there. College is a different animal.

We have had this argument countless times. Let's put it to rest and agree to disagree.

i ALREADy moved on.. better things to talk about than that clown.....

I agree, to dissagree..

Great. Lets talk about other knick things and hope they win this season. Is it possible to follow them without harping on him?

If they are winning, great if not, let's deal with that when/if it happens. I think we all would like to try to enjoy the season. It is what it is.

tkf is just a hater

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Lucky about what? that they are supremely talented? No

That they got to play with top flight HOFers like Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Gasol? Yes - they can thank their organizations for being competent and not making dumb signings that they would NEVER make - like Amare.

And yes ... Kobe alienated Shaq and PJax. Don't know why this is even a discussion.

or you can say the top flight HOFers got to play with them..... gasol was not a HOF player.. not before he came to play with Kobe, who was already established... there is no way to escape this bro.... adding gasol to carmelo doesn't get you rings.. adding wade to carmelo gets you nothing,..... the key is not getting carmelo help, but actually getting carmelo to help someone and he has shown that he really isn't in the business of helping anyone else but himself...

all conjecture that you are unable to qualify.

Can't say that he would win or is as good - I just can't/won't make statements like that unless I see it fail.

Spaghetti arguments will get you thrown out of court.

in the end bro.. those guys are winners.. carmelo= loser.. FACT.. end of story.. He hasn't gotten crap done, not on a team level and heck not even individually..... You can't run from that homie!

In the end, that is your argument. CONJECTURE / unqualified hot air.

I respect your hate / dislike for Carmelo. You have that right. However, using that to fit square arguments into round holes does not work.

Just say that you hate the guy - CASE CLOSED. No one can blame a fan for hating a player.

funny, your argument is based on..

Bad luck

He had no help

he needs gasol, shaq, etc

Lets wait and see

Who wouldn't want more money..

I dislike the guy for many reasons, but on top of that, he is overrated and doesn't win.. unless you can show me where I am wrong without using the " he didn't have", or " he needs another 20 years" argument then really, you don't have a valid defense here...

I don't need to defend nor am I defending. I cannot defend him until he is in a valid situation that requires defending.

Other than team USA, I have never seen him surrounded with A-list talent. We all know how he did there. Kobe was awful and Tyson was not good enough to get on the floor.

That is not enough for me to go on. Trust me, I would be the first one to turn on him. I just don't see the evidence to do that at this point.

I have never seen him not give it his all in the playoffs. Sometimes all by himself. Some of his playoffs series, he shot a low pct but he was also triple and quadruple teamed. Sometimes he just did not shoot well.I need evidence which is not there. There is no applicable case study other than Team USA which way too small of a sample size. Syracuse? Nah - won't go there. College is a different animal.We have had this argument countless times. Let's put it to rest and agree to disagree.

But Dirk Nowitzki didn’t have an A-list talent either, when he won Championship in Dallas; he did have Chandler and Kidd which is exactly what Melo has now.

I agree that Melo does play hard in the playoff, the guy can be an amazing player sometimes, unfortunately playoff games and championships are won wayyyyyyyyyy before that, in the offseason.

Last, while I agree that mostly you do need more than one super star in order to win a championship, I have seen many TRUE SUPER STAR (Dwight , Nowitzki Lebrom, Iverson) carrying their team every year deep into the playoffs without another A talent on the team.
This is all I’m asking from Melo, if he is as good as some make him out to be, he should make the Knicks matter again, even if we don’t win the ultimate price.

Dirk was a bit of an exception but he is also better than Melo. Can't argue with that.

He also had a far better team - not just Chandler.

Marion - lets not forgot that he was a pivotal part for them and PHX - great defender and VERY solid player
Kidd - is now older
Terry - a scorer and shooter - who is our Terry? JR? Not really
Barea - played great for them

Great defensive team (Marion and Tyson)

Having said that, it was still an exception. Detroit was an exception too but they had an excellent team all around and sick defensively.

Dwight, Lebronm, Dirk - are all in a diff class.

Iverson had one great run and that was a crazy defensive team (Dikembe, Ratliff ...). He scored 31 ppg on over 25 shots, shot 42pct from the field. He was one of the most inefficient scorers I have ever seen. Crazy talent though a bit wasted. That team one mainly due to defense.

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Lucky about what? that they are supremely talented? No

That they got to play with top flight HOFers like Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Gasol? Yes - they can thank their organizations for being competent and not making dumb signings that they would NEVER make - like Amare.

And yes ... Kobe alienated Shaq and PJax. Don't know why this is even a discussion.

or you can say the top flight HOFers got to play with them..... gasol was not a HOF player.. not before he came to play with Kobe, who was already established... there is no way to escape this bro.... adding gasol to carmelo doesn't get you rings.. adding wade to carmelo gets you nothing,..... the key is not getting carmelo help, but actually getting carmelo to help someone and he has shown that he really isn't in the business of helping anyone else but himself...

all conjecture that you are unable to qualify.

Can't say that he would win or is as good - I just can't/won't make statements like that unless I see it fail.

Spaghetti arguments will get you thrown out of court.

in the end bro.. those guys are winners.. carmelo= loser.. FACT.. end of story.. He hasn't gotten crap done, not on a team level and heck not even individually..... You can't run from that homie!

In the end, that is your argument. CONJECTURE / unqualified hot air.

I respect your hate / dislike for Carmelo. You have that right. However, using that to fit square arguments into round holes does not work.

Just say that you hate the guy - CASE CLOSED. No one can blame a fan for hating a player.

funny, your argument is based on..

Bad luck

He had no help

he needs gasol, shaq, etc

Lets wait and see

Who wouldn't want more money..

I dislike the guy for many reasons, but on top of that, he is overrated and doesn't win.. unless you can show me where I am wrong without using the " he didn't have", or " he needs another 20 years" argument then really, you don't have a valid defense here...

I don't need to defend nor am I defending. I cannot defend him until he is in a valid situation that requires defending.

Other than team USA, I have never seen him surrounded with A-list talent. We all know how he did there. Kobe was awful and Tyson was not good enough to get on the floor.

That is not enough for me to go on. Trust me, I would be the first one to turn on him. I just don't see the evidence to do that at this point.

I have never seen him not give it his all in the playoffs. Sometimes all by himself. Some of his playoffs series, he shot a low pct but he was also triple and quadruple teamed. Sometimes he just did not shoot well.

I need evidence which is not there. There is no applicable case study other than Team USA which way too small of a sample size. Syracuse? Nah - won't go there. College is a different animal.

We have had this argument countless times. Let's put it to rest and agree to disagree.

i ALREADy moved on.. better things to talk about than that clown.....

I agree, to dissagree..

Great. Lets talk about other knick things and hope they win this season. Is it possible to follow them without harping on him?

If they are winning, great if not, let's deal with that when/if it happens. I think we all would like to try to enjoy the season. It is what it is.

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Lucky about what? that they are supremely talented? No

That they got to play with top flight HOFers like Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Gasol? Yes - they can thank their organizations for being competent and not making dumb signings that they would NEVER make - like Amare.

And yes ... Kobe alienated Shaq and PJax. Don't know why this is even a discussion.

or you can say the top flight HOFers got to play with them..... gasol was not a HOF player.. not before he came to play with Kobe, who was already established... there is no way to escape this bro.... adding gasol to carmelo doesn't get you rings.. adding wade to carmelo gets you nothing,..... the key is not getting carmelo help, but actually getting carmelo to help someone and he has shown that he really isn't in the business of helping anyone else but himself...

all conjecture that you are unable to qualify.

Can't say that he would win or is as good - I just can't/won't make statements like that unless I see it fail.

Spaghetti arguments will get you thrown out of court.

in the end bro.. those guys are winners.. carmelo= loser.. FACT.. end of story.. He hasn't gotten crap done, not on a team level and heck not even individually..... You can't run from that homie!

In the end, that is your argument. CONJECTURE / unqualified hot air.

I respect your hate / dislike for Carmelo. You have that right. However, using that to fit square arguments into round holes does not work.

Just say that you hate the guy - CASE CLOSED. No one can blame a fan for hating a player.

funny, your argument is based on..

Bad luck

He had no help

he needs gasol, shaq, etc

Lets wait and see

Who wouldn't want more money..

I dislike the guy for many reasons, but on top of that, he is overrated and doesn't win.. unless you can show me where I am wrong without using the " he didn't have", or " he needs another 20 years" argument then really, you don't have a valid defense here...

I don't need to defend nor am I defending. I cannot defend him until he is in a valid situation that requires defending.

Other than team USA, I have never seen him surrounded with A-list talent. We all know how he did there. Kobe was awful and Tyson was not good enough to get on the floor.

That is not enough for me to go on. Trust me, I would be the first one to turn on him. I just don't see the evidence to do that at this point.

I have never seen him not give it his all in the playoffs. Sometimes all by himself. Some of his playoffs series, he shot a low pct but he was also triple and quadruple teamed. Sometimes he just did not shoot well.

I need evidence which is not there. There is no applicable case study other than Team USA which way too small of a sample size. Syracuse? Nah - won't go there. College is a different animal.

We have had this argument countless times. Let's put it to rest and agree to disagree.

i ALREADy moved on.. better things to talk about than that clown.....

I agree, to dissagree..

Great. Lets talk about other knick things and hope they win this season. Is it possible to follow them without harping on him?

If they are winning, great if not, let's deal with that when/if it happens. I think we all would like to try to enjoy the season. It is what it is.

the sad thing, there is nothing to talk about much with this team... that isn't depressing..

Yeah - but if you can't enjoy the season. Why follow it if its just gonna rile you up (even if they are a really good team)?

I start every year with every team that I root for with a clean slate. I did this in the DLee days too. Then, when they went south, my interest waned.

That's me. And its just sports so I never get to depressed or pissed off. I just tune out.

I root for the knicks to win, despite have this bozo on our team, but Most likely I will spend a lot of time following the nuggets, rockets, warriors, even watching some nets games... I am also intrigued by the lakers as well.. so i will be spreading my ball watching time around...

my interest doesn't diminish if the team does bad... I root for the knicks and will watch win or lose if I can see a plan, if the team is fun to watch, if I can see a future with the team.. win or lose.. right now I don't see any of that with this team, I saw it with the previous team, hence the anger, and frustration with this sad , sack franchise...

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

arkrud wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Melo needs help. We have no scorers outside of Smith.

No one else can consistently create their own offense.

LOL melo needs help. you do realize he was instrumental in creating this entire situation... right?

Enough with blaming him for the trade. Its silly.

It is not a blame Melo thread.
It is accountability thread.
Melo is now solely responsible for the fortunes of the Knicks club.
This is a honor and a responsibility.
If he will put his talent and soul into it and make it for a great run (like Pat and other Knicks greats) he will be the King on NYC.
If he will fail the team will fail with him.
Yes - he will need help but is is up to him to play and act the way other players, coaches, and fans will be able to help him.

I do not disagree with this. He will go as they go. Get the fame and the blame, and that is fair since that is what star players need to live with. That is why they get paid.

Its not always fair but thats life. He is not playing with Lebron, Wade, Shaq, KG, Duncan ... but that is life. Life is not always fair.

if he is in fact not playing with players equal to or better than he is then it's his own fault for creating a situation that results from his equating himself with those players he considers himself equal to or better than.

he got paid the max-- more than his actual worth whether he or his fans realize this-- and he enabled the decimation of the team he wanted to come to-- the decimation also being more than his actual worth... whether he or his supporters realize this-- because of a level of greed and an ego that were bigger than his actual skill and talent level.

all the negative shyt up to now and going forward traces itself back to his decisions and those of his business partners, dolan being primary among them, and including his moronic posse and ignoramus wife.

injuries to fellow players are part of melo's karma.

"not always fair" is a copout.

Now this is BS and I am sure you probably know that.

He is not the Knicks GM or Denvers. If the knicks decided to stupidly overpay, he was not the one who made that decision and the dopes that think he was are just that. Dopes.

Who is better than him on the team? And please don't give me a biased haters view. Lets discuss marketability around the league.

He has many faults and we know who's league he is not it - we don't need to regurgitate that. Top 15? Top 20? Sounds good - who cares.

I am not even a big Melo fan, I just hate bs arguments. I could care less if they traded him tomorrow (for fair value).

Did Ewing cripple this franchise? If yes, do you hate him for it? He did not make the dumb Rice trade. Let's not give these pawns to much credit.

stop with this argument that he isn't the GM.. if melo tells denver I am not signing the extension but waiting until the offseason to sign with the knicks.... it ends there... period.. Denver traded him because he asked out! and he limited the teams he would resign with, therefore limiting denvers ability to make a fair deal....

this is not a BS argument but a BS defense you guys are making for him.. if you are not a big melo fan you sure had me fooled...

Melo told Denver he wasn't signing the extension and Denver was going to trade him regardless. Do you seriously think that Denver would had let him walk for nothing?! Look how well that worked out for the Cavs. Melo wanting to go to the Knicks was the worst kept secret in the NBA. Melo wanted his money and got it!

Heck the Knicks gave Amare a max deal even though there were no other teams remotely close to offering him that deal. Guess that's Melo's fault as well....right?

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

arkrud wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Melo needs help. We have no scorers outside of Smith.

No one else can consistently create their own offense.

LOL melo needs help. you do realize he was instrumental in creating this entire situation... right?

Enough with blaming him for the trade. Its silly.

It is not a blame Melo thread.
It is accountability thread.
Melo is now solely responsible for the fortunes of the Knicks club.
This is a honor and a responsibility.
If he will put his talent and soul into it and make it for a great run (like Pat and other Knicks greats) he will be the King on NYC.
If he will fail the team will fail with him.
Yes - he will need help but is is up to him to play and act the way other players, coaches, and fans will be able to help him.

I do not disagree with this. He will go as they go. Get the fame and the blame, and that is fair since that is what star players need to live with. That is why they get paid.

Its not always fair but thats life. He is not playing with Lebron, Wade, Shaq, KG, Duncan ... but that is life. Life is not always fair.

if he is in fact not playing with players equal to or better than he is then it's his own fault for creating a situation that results from his equating himself with those players he considers himself equal to or better than.

he got paid the max-- more than his actual worth whether he or his fans realize this-- and he enabled the decimation of the team he wanted to come to-- the decimation also being more than his actual worth... whether he or his supporters realize this-- because of a level of greed and an ego that were bigger than his actual skill and talent level.

all the negative shyt up to now and going forward traces itself back to his decisions and those of his business partners, dolan being primary among them, and including his moronic posse and ignoramus wife.

injuries to fellow players are part of melo's karma.

"not always fair" is a copout.

Now this is BS and I am sure you probably know that.

He is not the Knicks GM or Denvers. If the knicks decided to stupidly overpay, he was not the one who made that decision and the dopes that think he was are just that. Dopes.

Who is better than him on the team? And please don't give me a biased haters view. Lets discuss marketability around the league.

He has many faults and we know who's league he is not it - we don't need to regurgitate that. Top 15? Top 20? Sounds good - who cares.

I am not even a big Melo fan, I just hate bs arguments. I could care less if they traded him tomorrow (for fair value).

Did Ewing cripple this franchise? If yes, do you hate him for it? He did not make the dumb Rice trade. Let's not give these pawns to much credit.

stop with this argument that he isn't the GM.. if melo tells denver I am not signing the extension but waiting until the offseason to sign with the knicks.... it ends there... period.. Denver traded him because he asked out! and he limited the teams he would resign with, therefore limiting denvers ability to make a fair deal....

this is not a BS argument but a BS defense you guys are making for him.. if you are not a big melo fan you sure had me fooled...

Melo told Denver he wasn't signing the extension and Denver was going to trade him regardless. Do you seriously think that Denver would had let him walk for nothing?! Look how well that worked out for the Cavs. Melo wanting to go to the Knicks was the worst kept secret in the NBA. Melo wanted his money and got it!

Heck the Knicks gave Amare a max deal even though there were no other teams remotely close to offering him that deal. Guess that's Melo's fault as well....right?

Right.

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

arkrud wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Melo needs help. We have no scorers outside of Smith.

No one else can consistently create their own offense.

LOL melo needs help. you do realize he was instrumental in creating this entire situation... right?

Enough with blaming him for the trade. Its silly.

It is not a blame Melo thread.
It is accountability thread.
Melo is now solely responsible for the fortunes of the Knicks club.
This is a honor and a responsibility.
If he will put his talent and soul into it and make it for a great run (like Pat and other Knicks greats) he will be the King on NYC.
If he will fail the team will fail with him.
Yes - he will need help but is is up to him to play and act the way other players, coaches, and fans will be able to help him.

I do not disagree with this. He will go as they go. Get the fame and the blame, and that is fair since that is what star players need to live with. That is why they get paid.

Its not always fair but thats life. He is not playing with Lebron, Wade, Shaq, KG, Duncan ... but that is life. Life is not always fair.

if he is in fact not playing with players equal to or better than he is then it's his own fault for creating a situation that results from his equating himself with those players he considers himself equal to or better than.

he got paid the max-- more than his actual worth whether he or his fans realize this-- and he enabled the decimation of the team he wanted to come to-- the decimation also being more than his actual worth... whether he or his supporters realize this-- because of a level of greed and an ego that were bigger than his actual skill and talent level.

all the negative shyt up to now and going forward traces itself back to his decisions and those of his business partners, dolan being primary among them, and including his moronic posse and ignoramus wife.

injuries to fellow players are part of melo's karma.

"not always fair" is a copout.

Now this is BS and I am sure you probably know that.

He is not the Knicks GM or Denvers. If the knicks decided to stupidly overpay, he was not the one who made that decision and the dopes that think he was are just that. Dopes.

Who is better than him on the team? And please don't give me a biased haters view. Lets discuss marketability around the league.

He has many faults and we know who's league he is not it - we don't need to regurgitate that. Top 15? Top 20? Sounds good - who cares.

I am not even a big Melo fan, I just hate bs arguments. I could care less if they traded him tomorrow (for fair value).

Did Ewing cripple this franchise? If yes, do you hate him for it? He did not make the dumb Rice trade. Let's not give these pawns to much credit.

stop with this argument that he isn't the GM.. if melo tells denver I am not signing the extension but waiting until the offseason to sign with the knicks.... it ends there... period.. Denver traded him because he asked out! and he limited the teams he would resign with, therefore limiting denvers ability to make a fair deal....

this is not a BS argument but a BS defense you guys are making for him.. if you are not a big melo fan you sure had me fooled...

Melo told Denver he wasn't signing the extension and Denver was going to trade him regardless. Do you seriously think that Denver would had let him walk for nothing?! Look how well that worked out for the Cavs. Melo wanting to go to the Knicks was the worst kept secret in the NBA. Melo wanted his money and got it!

Heck the Knicks gave Amare a max deal even though there were no other teams remotely close to offering him that deal. Guess that's Melo's fault as well....right?

what made you think that I said denver was going to let him walk for nothing?

Guess that's Melo's fault as well....right?

sure.. why not? according to you guys, he is just one unlucky fella...

He has bad karma...

....and Melanoma and Carcinogens and Bubonic Plague...

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Lucky about what? that they are supremely talented? No

That they got to play with top flight HOFers like Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Gasol? Yes - they can thank their organizations for being competent and not making dumb signings that they would NEVER make - like Amare.

And yes ... Kobe alienated Shaq and PJax. Don't know why this is even a discussion.

or you can say the top flight HOFers got to play with them..... gasol was not a HOF player.. not before he came to play with Kobe, who was already established... there is no way to escape this bro.... adding gasol to carmelo doesn't get you rings.. adding wade to carmelo gets you nothing,..... the key is not getting carmelo help, but actually getting carmelo to help someone and he has shown that he really isn't in the business of helping anyone else but himself...

all conjecture that you are unable to qualify.

Can't say that he would win or is as good - I just can't/won't make statements like that unless I see it fail.

Spaghetti arguments will get you thrown out of court.

in the end bro.. those guys are winners.. carmelo= loser.. FACT.. end of story.. He hasn't gotten crap done, not on a team level and heck not even individually..... You can't run from that homie!

In the end, that is your argument. CONJECTURE / unqualified hot air.

I respect your hate / dislike for Carmelo. You have that right. However, using that to fit square arguments into round holes does not work.

Just say that you hate the guy - CASE CLOSED. No one can blame a fan for hating a player.

funny, your argument is based on..

Bad luck

He had no help

he needs gasol, shaq, etc

Lets wait and see

Who wouldn't want more money..

I dislike the guy for many reasons, but on top of that, he is overrated and doesn't win.. unless you can show me where I am wrong without using the " he didn't have", or " he needs another 20 years" argument then really, you don't have a valid defense here...

I don't need to defend nor am I defending. I cannot defend him until he is in a valid situation that requires defending.

Other than team USA, I have never seen him surrounded with A-list talent. We all know how he did there. Kobe was awful and Tyson was not good enough to get on the floor.

That is not enough for me to go on. Trust me, I would be the first one to turn on him. I just don't see the evidence to do that at this point.

I have never seen him not give it his all in the playoffs. Sometimes all by himself. Some of his playoffs series, he shot a low pct but he was also triple and quadruple teamed. Sometimes he just did not shoot well.I need evidence which is not there. There is no applicable case study other than Team USA which way too small of a sample size. Syracuse? Nah - won't go there. College is a different animal.We have had this argument countless times. Let's put it to rest and agree to disagree.

But Dirk Nowitzki didn’t have an A-list talent either, when he won Championship in Dallas; he did have Chandler and Kidd which is exactly what Melo has now.

I agree that Melo does play hard in the playoff, the guy can be an amazing player sometimes, unfortunately playoff games and championships are won wayyyyyyyyyy before that, in the offseason.

Last, while I agree that mostly you do need more than one super star in order to win a championship, I have seen many TRUE SUPER STAR (Dwight , Nowitzki Lebrom, Iverson) carrying their team every year deep into the playoffs without another A talent on the team.
This is all I’m asking from Melo, if he is as good as some make him out to be, he should make the Knicks matter again, even if we don’t win the ultimate price.

Dirk was a bit of an exception but he is also better than Melo. Can't argue with that.

He also had a far better team - not just Chandler.

Marion - lets not forgot that he was a pivotal part for them and PHX - great defender and VERY solid player
Kidd - is now older
Terry - a scorer and shooter - who is our Terry? JR? Not really
Barea - played great for them

Great defensive team (Marion and Tyson)

Having said that, it was still an exception. Detroit was an exception too but they had an excellent team all around and sick defensively.

Dwight, Lebronm, Dirk - are all in a diff class.

Iverson had one great run and that was a crazy defensive team (Dikembe, Ratliff ...). He scored 31 ppg on over 25 shots, shot 42pct from the field. He was one of the most inefficient scorers I have ever seen. Crazy talent though a bit wasted. That team one mainly due to defense.

If it was done before, I guess we have to agree that it’s not entirely the roster’s fault than, may be the star (Melo) hold some responsibility/blame for his lack of playoff success.

Not sure I get your point but sure - everyone gets blame when you lose. Some is deserved and some is just guilty by association. It is all based on context.