mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Obviously written well before the pre-season started...

AS IT SHOULD BE.. OR are you telling me they should put a lot of stock in pre-season games?

or are you saying after these stunning two preseason wins he should now change his tune to 55 wins?

Well yeah...I'm actually looking at Felton and think he is key to what we want to do this season...He has run an efficiently offense thus far and more importantly he is in shape...I think that was a big question mark going in...Now let's get Melo, Amare, Chandler and Felton on the same page...Let's rock this motha...I'm pumped...What's huge is that we will be playing defense as a team...If u saw the end of last season, we won games we usually lost because our defensive intensity was much higher...I'm looking at a 50 win team in my opinion...

a reasonable analyst and journalist should not be making real observations based on pre-season.. if felton is key and you want someone to drastically change their view of your team, then felton needs to be burning through preseason, and he just hasn't... again, even if felton sucked, I would not take so much from preseason...

tell me, how many wins did you have the warriors having this year? 30-35? well they are 3-1, denver is 3-0, the kings are 2-0.. what should we take from that? miami is 1-2, boston is 1-3, are they slippin?

so far in 2 games, felton is average 7/7 and shooting 31%.... last year deron williams aveaged 21/8 shot 40% and someone (i forgot who) said that was Horrendous...

go figure.. right? felton is not playing that well bro..

Come now son, you have been watching basketball for some time now..At least I have that impression...Preseason isn't about wins and losses, it's about getting in basketball shape...Felton is there...He was throwing the alley hoops that you thought only Lin could do...Felton was in command of the offense, huge...It's what we need...We are seeing glimpses of what could be...Now we will spend the next two or three months establishing an offensive identity behind our defense...It won't happen day one or even a month into the season...This is about finding a way to win as a team, it isn't about individual accolades...

good point.. so then why do you so strongly cosign the carmelo trade that shredded this team of talent and picks.. at team that was establishing an identity.. you see son, it is so easy to throw out these cliche's another thing to truly mean it... I have seen enough of felton to know and understand that by mid season you will be screaming another tune... either that or lying to yourself about him and this team........ still..

Name the talent we lost...Gallo, 15 pt per game guy??...Will the same??..We were a .500 team with them...Amare and Felton were our two best players that year...Are we not better now than we were before the trade??...Felton was awesome last time he was here..Borderline all star...I'm not sure why u think I would change my tune...He was beloved last time he was here...I really don't get where the Felton dislike comes from, well I do get it , but it makes no sense....

GREAT ok, lets talk about record first of all that team was 28-26 that is above .500, not .500.... with carmelo we finished the season 36-30, we know carmelo missed most of linsanity, we know he didn't play during that 8-1 stretch, actually he played 65 minutes of that utah game.... so if you factor that in to the overall record with melo we are 28-29 and the year prior to when we made this "ridiculous"trade we were 14-14 with melo... add that up... that is 42-43 below .500

And lets not bring felton into this.. I really don't like or dislike felton, what I don't like is how you guys are now hyping him up in a feeble attempt to downplay letting lin go.....

28 games pre trade

12-16

final 28 games - post trade

14-14

Priceless!

This post doesn't make any sense....

The team prior to the Melo trade was 28-26 after 54gms since then Melo had played approximately 85gms give or take 2-3gms and the team overall record is 42-43.

So with a 31gm difference between 1 team compared to two different Melo led teams and 2 off-seasons of moves I guess the pre-trade team wasn't going get better. Which means none of you had any confidence in that team or mgmt to improve it going forward.

Now ask yourself how is that any different than how current fans who aren't feeling this team feel?

Math is math. Numbers don't lie. And if we wanted to makes excuses there were a couple to be made for the first team but I won't because I don't make excuses as a fan.

The team prior to the trade was in a downward spiral - if you don't choose to remember that, thats fine. Amare was spent.

sorry but the worst part of that team was in fact the felton/stat combination. felton was not and is not a true floor general. his decision-making skills are sub-par. his court vision is not good at all and... he has a hard time maintaining his dribble because his left hand is not developed. even if he had the will to spread the ball around, outside of a crappy pick and roll game with stat, he does not possess the skills and the talent to do so. expecting him to make it all work with this group is asking too much and we will see very similar results this season if the past is prelude to the present. he also can't fight over picks to save his life.

it's the reason why walsh was wise to keep him on a two-year contract as he angled for an upgrade at the point guard position should felton not pan out, a position vital to the plan he was making to build around d'antoni and stoudemire. this after two years of onerous roster flush in the hopes of landing a true franchise player in lebron. so when you invest 100 million in a deeply flawed player like stoudemire you had best be about building around that player, and in this situation that is getting a top-flight point guard, garbage men, floor spreaders, and defenders.

and now felton is being lauded in his return to new york. i swear the willful ignorance and amnesia in knick nation.

"amare spent": why? it wasn't because he felt he had to put the team on his back and go into beast mode. this is video game thinking. the fact is he can't play any other way if he wants to win a few regular-season games. just imagine if he actually knew how to pass the ball, share the ball, make others better. but because he was stuck with felton (he wanted ridnour) the team underachieved and he felt compelled to go one on three, serving to wear himself out while promoting a disjointed atmosphere on the floor.

still, 28-26 and a seventh seed was not a downward spiral and the team did not warrant the vast overhaul it received either. walsh was building something methodically in the wake of lebron, planning on upgrading where it was most important to-- point guard. and now, i repeat, the knicks are stuck with the same point guard walsh was only willing to give two years to.

WOW

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Obviously written well before the pre-season started...

AS IT SHOULD BE.. OR are you telling me they should put a lot of stock in pre-season games?

or are you saying after these stunning two preseason wins he should now change his tune to 55 wins?

Well yeah...I'm actually looking at Felton and think he is key to what we want to do this season...He has run an efficiently offense thus far and more importantly he is in shape...I think that was a big question mark going in...Now let's get Melo, Amare, Chandler and Felton on the same page...Let's rock this motha...I'm pumped...What's huge is that we will be playing defense as a team...If u saw the end of last season, we won games we usually lost because our defensive intensity was much higher...I'm looking at a 50 win team in my opinion...

a reasonable analyst and journalist should not be making real observations based on pre-season.. if felton is key and you want someone to drastically change their view of your team, then felton needs to be burning through preseason, and he just hasn't... again, even if felton sucked, I would not take so much from preseason...

tell me, how many wins did you have the warriors having this year? 30-35? well they are 3-1, denver is 3-0, the kings are 2-0.. what should we take from that? miami is 1-2, boston is 1-3, are they slippin?

so far in 2 games, felton is average 7/7 and shooting 31%.... last year deron williams aveaged 21/8 shot 40% and someone (i forgot who) said that was Horrendous...

go figure.. right? felton is not playing that well bro..

Come now son, you have been watching basketball for some time now..At least I have that impression...Preseason isn't about wins and losses, it's about getting in basketball shape...Felton is there...He was throwing the alley hoops that you thought only Lin could do...Felton was in command of the offense, huge...It's what we need...We are seeing glimpses of what could be...Now we will spend the next two or three months establishing an offensive identity behind our defense...It won't happen day one or even a month into the season...This is about finding a way to win as a team, it isn't about individual accolades...

good point.. so then why do you so strongly cosign the carmelo trade that shredded this team of talent and picks.. at team that was establishing an identity.. you see son, it is so easy to throw out these cliche's another thing to truly mean it... I have seen enough of felton to know and understand that by mid season you will be screaming another tune... either that or lying to yourself about him and this team........ still..

Name the talent we lost...Gallo, 15 pt per game guy??...Will the same??..We were a .500 team with them...Amare and Felton were our two best players that year...Are we not better now than we were before the trade??...Felton was awesome last time he was here..Borderline all star...I'm not sure why u think I would change my tune...He was beloved last time he was here...I really don't get where the Felton dislike comes from, well I do get it , but it makes no sense....

GREAT ok, lets talk about record first of all that team was 28-26 that is above .500, not .500.... with carmelo we finished the season 36-30, we know carmelo missed most of linsanity, we know he didn't play during that 8-1 stretch, actually he played 65 minutes of that utah game.... so if you factor that in to the overall record with melo we are 28-29 and the year prior to when we made this "ridiculous"trade we were 14-14 with melo... add that up... that is 42-43 below .500

And lets not bring felton into this.. I really don't like or dislike felton, what I don't like is how you guys are now hyping him up in a feeble attempt to downplay letting lin go.....

28 games pre trade

12-16

final 28 games - post trade

14-14

Priceless!

This post doesn't make any sense....

The team prior to the Melo trade was 28-26 after 54gms since then Melo had played approximately 85gms give or take 2-3gms and the team overall record is 42-43.

So with a 31gm difference between 1 team compared to two different Melo led teams and 2 off-seasons of moves I guess the pre-trade team wasn't going get better. Which means none of you had any confidence in that team or mgmt to improve it going forward.

Now ask yourself how is that any different than how current fans who aren't feeling this team feel?

Math is math. Numbers don't lie. And if we wanted to makes excuses there were a couple to be made for the first team but I won't because I don't make excuses as a fan.

The team prior to the trade was in a downward spiral - if you don't choose to remember that, thats fine. Amare was spent.

sorry but the worst part of that team was in fact the felton/stat combination. felton was not and is not a true floor general. his decision-making skills are sub-par. his court vision is not good at all and... he has a hard time maintaining his dribble because his left hand is not developed. even if he had the will to spread the ball around, outside of a crappy pick and roll game with stat, he does not possess the skills and the talent to do so. expecting him to make it all work with this group is asking too much and we will see very similar results this season if the past is prelude to the present. he also can't fight over picks to save his life.

it's the reason why walsh was wise to keep him on a two-year contract as he angled for an upgrade at the point guard position should felton not pan out, a position vital to the plan he was making to build around d'antoni and stoudemire. this after two years of onerous roster flush in the hopes of landing a true franchise player in lebron. so when you invest 100 million in a deeply flawed player like stoudemire you had best be about building around that player, and in this situation that is getting a top-flight point guard, garbage men, floor spreaders, and defenders.

and now felton is being lauded in his return to new york. i swear the willful ignorance and amnesia in knick nation.

"amare spent": why? it wasn't because he felt he had to put the team on his back and go into beast mode. this is video game thinking. the fact is he can't play any other way if he wants to win a few regular-season games. just imagine if he actually knew how to pass the ball, share the ball, make others better. but because he was stuck with felton (he wanted ridnour) the team underachieved and he felt compelled to go one on three, serving to wear himself out while promoting a disjointed atmosphere on the floor.

still, 28-26 and a seventh seed was not a downward spiral and the team did not warrant the vast overhaul it received either. walsh was building something methodically in the wake of lebron, planning on upgrading where it was most important to-- point guard. and now, i repeat, the knicks are stuck with the same point guard walsh was only willing to give two years to.

WOW

I am not a Felton and I partially agree with your take on him. I am not a Stat fan though when healthy he is an excellent and efficient scorer.

you say 28-26 but look how they were playing at that point.

Anji wrote:I don't understand the Hyperbole when it comes to Felton. The guy is a good point guard that kknows how to run a team and push the ball.

The thing is he really doesn't. http://gothicginobili.com/?p=4646 <---That's a good article that summarizes the problems with Felton. What everyone here seems to believe is that Felton is much closer to the player he was here two years ago for about 25-30 games and not the player he's been in his entire 8 year career. Even when he was here he only put up good numbers for a short amount of time, his play had started tanking sometime around December/January. What it really comes down to is if you went down the list of every team in the league Felton wouldn't be able to start for the majority of them.

VCoug wrote:

Anji wrote:I don't understand the Hyperbole when it comes to Felton. The guy is a good point guard that kknows how to run a team and push the ball.

The thing is he really doesn't. http://gothicginobili.com/?p=4646 <---That's a good article that summarizes the problems with Felton. What everyone here seems to believe is that Felton is much closer to the player he was here two years ago for about 25-30 games and not the player he's been in his entire 8 year career. Even when he was here he only put up good numbers for a short amount of time, his play had started tanking sometime around December/January. What it really comes down to is if you went down the list of every team in the league Felton wouldn't be able to start for the majority of them.

BigDaddyG wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Anji wrote:I don't understand the Hyperbole when it comes to Felton. The guy is a good point guard that kknows how to run a team and push the ball.

The thing is he really doesn't. http://gothicginobili.com/?p=4646 <---That's a good article that summarizes the problems with Felton. What everyone here seems to believe is that Felton is much closer to the player he was here two years ago for about 25-30 games and not the player he's been in his entire 8 year career. Even when he was here he only put up good numbers for a short amount of time, his play had started tanking sometime around December/January. What it really comes down to is if you went down the list of every team in the league Felton wouldn't be able to start for the majority of them.

The article makes some good points, but it also misses the boat on a few things. We shouldnt gamble on big contract for Lin just because we don't know what his ceiling will be. I feel more than comfortable letting Houston take that gamble. I don't want to get in a big argument over what Dolan's motivations. The only things I care about is that it eventually led to a sound decision. Also, it's hard to look at Felton's career as a point guard without acknowledging the years he spent playing out of position at shooting guard under Larry Brown's kookie offensive schemes. I'm not say Felton is a world beater at PG, but I think his advanced stats look better once you take into account minutes played. As far Felton's career, he's only signed for three years, so I don't car if he loses athleticism. He'll be gone by then. Plus, unlike Ln's deal, I can state with confidence that we will be able to unload Felton's contract in a trade.
Felton did fall off a bit during his first stint with the Knicks. He also played the most minutes per game in his career and we didn't have a decent backup PG at the time. That should't be the case this year.

I've gone over the contract situation before. Lin's contract wouldn't have restricted player movement for us, it would only have cost Dolan more money, something he's never cared about before.

djsunyc wrote:why the nets and the heat are better postseason teams than the knicks (if everyone is healthy):

they both possess 2 players that can play make and create for others. they both have 2 guys that can run the pick and roll and make defenses have to adjust. the knicks do not have a reliable play maker to break defenses down when the game is on the line. lebron + wade do that. deron + jj do that.

so the knicks must overcome that with tremendous defense and must get contributions from everyone on the roster. they must play the game like the dallas mavericks (who really faced a lebron that was not ready to lead.) defense from all players and hope, as a unit, the team can hit timely baskets.

the celtics are still better constructed for the postseason b/c they still have a guy that can attack at will with rondo.

melo is a scorer but doesn't create for others (think dirk)...he is not one to take it at the top, dribble drive and find others. he is the one that scores the basket. he is this generations nique. and the player that doesn't really fit into either the mavericks or celtics model is amare. doesn't provide defense and needs to be the pick and roll man.

the # of wins in the regular season doesn't really mean too much with this squad.

just my 2 cents. and yes, chalk this cameo up to being bored as hell at work.

I thought cameo was a porn star from the early '90's?

Maybe not.

holfresh wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Obviously written well before the pre-season started...

AS IT SHOULD BE.. OR are you telling me they should put a lot of stock in pre-season games?

or are you saying after these stunning two preseason wins he should now change his tune to 55 wins?

Well yeah...I'm actually looking at Felton and think he is key to what we want to do this season...He has run an efficiently offense thus far and more importantly he is in shape...I think that was a big question mark going in...Now let's get Melo, Amare, Chandler and Felton on the same page...Let's rock this motha...I'm pumped...What's huge is that we will be playing defense as a team...If u saw the end of last season, we won games we usually lost because our defensive intensity was much higher...I'm looking at a 50 win team in my opinion...

a reasonable analyst and journalist should not be making real observations based on pre-season.. if felton is key and you want someone to drastically change their view of your team, then felton needs to be burning through preseason, and he just hasn't... again, even if felton sucked, I would not take so much from preseason...

tell me, how many wins did you have the warriors having this year? 30-35? well they are 3-1, denver is 3-0, the kings are 2-0.. what should we take from that? miami is 1-2, boston is 1-3, are they slippin?

so far in 2 games, felton is average 7/7 and shooting 31%.... last year deron williams aveaged 21/8 shot 40% and someone (i forgot who) said that was Horrendous...

go figure.. right? felton is not playing that well bro..

Come now son, you have been watching basketball for some time now..At least I have that impression...Preseason isn't about wins and losses, it's about getting in basketball shape...Felton is there...He was throwing the alley hoops that you thought only Lin could do...Felton was in command of the offense, huge...It's what we need...We are seeing glimpses of what could be...Now we will spend the next two or three months establishing an offensive identity behind our defense...It won't happen day one or even a month into the season...This is about finding a way to win as a team, it isn't about individual accolades...

good point.. so then why do you so strongly cosign the carmelo trade that shredded this team of talent and picks.. at team that was establishing an identity.. you see son, it is so easy to throw out these cliche's another thing to truly mean it... I have seen enough of felton to know and understand that by mid season you will be screaming another tune... either that or lying to yourself about him and this team........ still..

Name the talent we lost...Gallo, 15 pt per game guy??...Will the same??..We were a .500 team with them...Amare and Felton were our two best players that year...Are we not better now than we were before the trade??...Felton was awesome last time he was here..Borderline all star...I'm not sure why u think I would change my tune...He was beloved last time he was here...I really don't get where the Felton dislike comes from, well I do get it , but it makes no sense....

GREAT ok, lets talk about record first of all that team was 28-26 that is above .500, not .500.... with carmelo we finished the season 36-30, we know carmelo missed most of linsanity, we know he didn't play during that 8-1 stretch, actually he played 65 minutes of that utah game.... so if you factor that in to the overall record with melo we are 28-29 and the year prior to when we made this "ridiculous"trade we were 14-14 with melo... add that up... that is 42-43 below .500

And lets not bring felton into this.. I really don't like or dislike felton, what I don't like is how you guys are now hyping him up in a feeble attempt to downplay letting lin go.....

28 games pre trade

12-16

final 28 games - post trade

14-14

Priceless!

This post doesn't make any sense....

The team prior to the Melo trade was 28-26 after 54gms since then Melo had played approximately 85gms give or take 2-3gms and the team overall record is 42-43.

So with a 31gm difference between 1 team compared to two different Melo led teams and 2 off-seasons of moves I guess the pre-trade team wasn't going get better. Which means none of you had any confidence in that team or mgmt to improve it going forward.

Now ask yourself how is that any different than how current fans who aren't feeling this team feel?

Math is math. Numbers don't lie. And if we wanted to makes excuses there were a couple to be made for the first team but I won't because I don't make excuses as a fan.

The team prior to the trade was in a downward spiral - if you don't choose to remember that, thats fine. Amare was spent.

sorry but the worst part of that team was in fact the felton/stat combination. felton was not and is not a true floor general. his decision-making skills are sub-par. his court vision is not good at all and... he has a hard time maintaining his dribble because his left hand is not developed. even if he had the will to spread the ball around, outside of a crappy pick and roll game with stat, he does not possess the skills and the talent to do so. expecting him to make it all work with this group is asking too much and we will see very similar results this season if the past is prelude to the present. he also can't fight over picks to save his life.

it's the reason why walsh was wise to keep him on a two-year contract as he angled for an upgrade at the point guard position should felton not pan out, a position vital to the plan he was making to build around d'antoni and stoudemire. this after two years of onerous roster flush in the hopes of landing a true franchise player in lebron. so when you invest 100 million in a deeply flawed player like stoudemire you had best be about building around that player, and in this situation that is getting a top-flight point guard, garbage men, floor spreaders, and defenders.

and now felton is being lauded in his return to new york. i swear the willful ignorance and amnesia in knick nation.

"amare spent": why? it wasn't because he felt he had to put the team on his back and go into beast mode. this is video game thinking. the fact is he can't play any other way if he wants to win a few regular-season games. just imagine if he actually knew how to pass the ball, share the ball, make others better. but because he was stuck with felton (he wanted ridnour) the team underachieved and he felt compelled to go one on three, serving to wear himself out while promoting a disjointed atmosphere on the floor.

still, 28-26 and a seventh seed was not a downward spiral and the team did not warrant the vast overhaul it received either. walsh was building something methodically in the wake of lebron, planning on upgrading where it was most important to-- point guard. and now, i repeat, the knicks are stuck with the same point guard walsh was only willing to give two years to.

WOW

I am not a Felton and I partially agree with your take on him. I am not a Stat fan though when healthy he is an excellent and efficient scorer.

you say 28-26 but look how they were playing at that point.

It must be political season...Revisionist history...STAT and Felton was the worst part of that team huh...Turns out at the time STAT was league MVP before the trade and Felton at 17 and 9 was talked about making the all star team...Spin it all you want dk7...facts are the facts...

i am telling you what was evident from watching them play, empirical evidence.

you respond with some tin-plated non-award for stat and empty statistics for felton.

anyone actually watching those 54 games-- and digesting what they were watching-- would conclude that felton was not up to point guard standards and stat knew how to play only for himself.