3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

NUPE wrote:
My point has always been to evaluate the totality of situations, to be fair and to be realistic. This is how I approach everything in life. I have no agenda for or against any player. I just call a spade a spade. I am still waiting for you to point out a team from the West that made the Finals with a trash roster like LeBron's Cavs. Waits again......

Also, only trolls resort to calling facts and logic excuses.

Still Waiting 3G4G.....

The Finals comparisons went over your head. I already explained to you why I posted Finals appearances. What I'm saying is if you use a trash roster as an excuse a player like Lebron and Iverson took their trash rosters to the Finals(against very competitive teams btw(better than the Clippers and Jazz team's Melo lost to in the first round) therefore Melo should have been capable of getting his out of the First Round more consistently, not necessarily taking them to the Finals.

Or to simplify Melo never maxmized while the other 2 players I listed as examples did. Melo is more status quo

It's real simple stuff here, not complicated at all.....

So, what you are saying is that you can not name such a team which proves my point. Further, since you can't name such a team you have opted to post an irrelevant Youtube video in hopes of distracting me. #Fail #Iseewhatyouaredoing #Youareatroll

Now, I guess I have made my point which is:

Pointing out that LeBron made the Finals through the crappy Eastern Conference in attempt to disparage and sully Melo is absurd because Melo played in the West which all reasonable people admit was vastly superior to the East from top to bottom for a number of years...

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Both Teams Made the Finals yet we have Fairies in this thread making roster excuses as to why a So-Called Superstar who's as good as Kobe/Wade/Peirce "BY THE NUMBERS" had too difficult of a time getting out of the first round

POOF

POW

BAM

BE GONE!

The teams you noted made the Finals through the Eastern Conference which was TERRIBLE back then. Show me a team as TERRIBLE as those Eastern Conference teams that made the Finals coming from the West. Please do.

I'll wait....

Now the argument is changing again...now it's how bad other teams were in comparison. Here's where your argument fails. The gap between getting out of the first round and getting to the Finals IS A WIDE MARGIN therefore any discrepancies in rosters had by players vs who they were playing, evens the field. No one said Melo should have taken the Nuggets to the Finals. By me showing the above examples he most certainly should have beaten the Clippers and Jazz then folded in the next round.

But what I'll will do is tell you Lebron demolished the Pistons on his way to the Finals a proven Championship Contending team who won over 50gms that season. Oh and they had the great SHEED, you know? Are you going to say the Utah Jazz and Clippers were better than those Pistons? Lebron also eliminated a very savvy Wizard team that year and Nets team with the then 33yr old Kidd(our not so old boy) and Carter and Jefferson

Iverson beat the Bucks with Sam Cassell/Ray Allen/Glen Robinson/Tim Thomas, he beat a Pacers team with Reggie/Jermaine O'neal/Jalen Rose/Jeff Foster, he beat a Raptors team with Vince Carter/Antonio Davis/Oakley/Childs/Mo Pete/Jerome Williams
I'm beginning to think you have zero knowledge about this game

What cyclical excuses......

Iverson had a brilliant coach that built the offense around him. He played with a backcourt mate in Eric Snow that fit in a unique way that balanced Iverson's strengths and weaknesses. Nothing like that has been done for Melo in NY. His strengths certainly weren't emphasized by the previous coach.

Don't call LB brilliant now because in 2005-2006 he was being put down in favor of Marbury and the crew. But when you do things like this you only use your own argument to back you into a corner plastic knife against a gun.

Lebron beat the Pistons who were coached by Mike Brown (far from brilliant) who everyone has been saying the past 5yrs has no clue how to coach. You know all the funny Mike Brown gifs of him standing on the sideline doing nothing while his ast draws up plays!

Iverson beat a Bucks a team coached by George Karl(Karl had on his resume at the time a Finals appearance)

Iverson beat a Pacers team(he swept them actually) who if I'm not mistaken went to the Finals the previous season against the Lakers coached by Bird(who proved to be a very damn good coach)

So what you're saying is....

Melo has to have at least 1 Max player on his team if not 2 and a helluva bench

Melo can't face anyone in the first round with a better record than his team or a team who has maybe an extra Max Cat

Melo has to have a brilliant coach

Then maybe just maybe he won't have first round woes. Name me a player who doesn't need this?

No what I am saying is Melo hasn't been put in a situation in NY by a coach like Iverson was in Philly. Not sure where you got what I was saying about Melo when I posted about the unique situation created for Iverson that allowed him and his team to have so much success.

Look at Derrick Rose and the Bulls too, sometimes those kinds of blue collar teams around scores work great.

I fill this is the kinda team Melo is meant to play on. That sixers team reminds me of the knicks this season.

Woodson is a completely different coach then Melo has played under in yrs past, and this is a completely different roster then Melo has ever played with in his career. There is no telling given this current situation if Melo will excell or not.

But given the motivation he seems to be having, the talent on the roster, and the hard work the head coach and GM have been putting in all off season as well as the players I think there are a lot of good signs.

The only real questions are if the roster is balanced enough that everyone can maximize there strengths, can we stay healthy, and can we start and finish strong at the end of the season without wearing down.

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

3G4G wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:those are nice words. it shows he understands the concepts. perhaps now it is merely a question of willingness. but the probability is pretty high that even if he is willing he may not have the ability to do what he needs to do. i have always thought he had the skill and the talent but his bbiq limited him.

otherwise i believe he would have played this way by now. frankly he sounds like an alcoholic in the earliest stages of recovery.

yea... exactly. Talking about all the great things he will do, until he's not comfortable and goes back to his old ways.

Simple question: Why is Melo talking at all? If someone has something to prove, prove it. Just go win.

It's hard to root for players when they do things on their terms and not based on principle. In all honesty there are no more coaches for Melo to get fired, there are no more players who bear a threat to "I'm Coming Home", there is no more money for him to chase at the moment, there are no other major gigs he can help his wife land, he can't lose another playoff series in the first round and borrow time off of it, he's probably never going to beat Durant for the NBA scoring leader for the rest of his career even if he tried.....what else could he say other than I need to change my game for my teammates.

I know Denver is thanking all of what they managed to decide on in getting rid of him.

Just for a second, pretend there is no hate and look at the venue and the teams Melo has been on...Try to use logic to see where he has been and where he wants to go...He has been in a city(Denver) that needed to win to fill the seats...They brought in a scorer to fill the arena and it worked, Melo delivered...The supporting cast around him hasn't always been one that was built to win...As I showed in another posting, second tier players has been Voshon Leonard, Boykins, KMart, Andre Miller... They were the second best players on a team, trying to contend in the Western division against the Lakers and Spurs...Not the type of team built to make a run..Yet he is framed as a guy who can't get out the first round because of his deeds...You tell this kid go out there and carry us to a few victories and he did just that...The coach and organization didn't seem to have a problem until he wanted to leave...They did everything to make him stay...He was filling the seats...He obviously wanted more, he wanted to team up with others to make a run at a ring...He is stating he is willing to make the adjustments to do just that...The very thing Knick fans want as well, and he just get killed for it...Give him a chance?? NO, He cost us Gallo...Nothing will make u guys happy unless Gallo is hoisting it up from the three point line and flopping on the defensive end with MDA egging him on...Amazing...

Reasoning is pointless with people whose aim it is to be unreasonable...This kid wants to win and I want to watch him in a Knick uniform go for a ring...I know MDA and Gallo couldn't get us there against the likes of LeBron and KG...Some here don't and may not care as long as their favorites a jacking threes, running the pick and roll, who can give two ****s about defensive basketball...What can I say, keep moaning...Maybe this is the way its done with old dudes coming off the bench, I doubt having old dudes are better than having younger sparks off the bench but I'm rooting for them...You don't have to believe, just continue to be miserable until u see some victories then join the bandwagon and tell us all how u knew he could do it...My popcorn will be popping on Oct. 11 when the run begins..Tune in u might see a few good games and manage to smile under your frozen frowns...Go Knicks!!!!

Holfresh while you continue to harp on guys like gallo and MDA it just shows how shallow you are thinking here... it is about a way of doing business, substitute gallo for any young player with potential, substitute lin for any young player with a lot of potential and it is the same exact thing.... we were far from a finished product with gallo, amare, chandler, MDA and crew, but we were a young crew above .500 with assets.. cap space, picks, etc to methodically improve this team to a point where we can make a sustained run at the top teams in the league...

no one is saying this team will suck, this team should be good, but we are no longer looking for "good" we were on our way there before the trade, this team needs to be great, championship great.. otherwise why make the trade? to see mello flop around in hsi sweet spot hoisting up shots, jab step, jab step, iso, iso.. all day? THIS IS what a lot of you want to see, 'THE BEST PUUUUUUUUURE SCORER".......If carmelo cared about winning he wouldn't wait until now to talk about doing the things it takes to win.. winners have that etched in their DNA.... as DK mentioned in his post.. melo has no more excuses, so what else is he going to say... there are no more coaches to get fired, no more money to make, no more threats to his "i'm coming home".......and msot likely no more scoring titles to win unless durant, lebron, wade, westbrook and a few others retire.. oh wait, did I say any more.. heck he hasn't one one.. my bad...

the key is, if you think that melo could not beat the spurs or lakers with that team in denver, why should it be any different facing two very good teams in the east, with a team of older guys and guys coming off career low years? where is the logic in that?

so while we all wait until this season starts some of us like to come in with a more realistic approach, and if the knicks win great.... I am sure none of us will jump on the so called "bandwagon" we were never off the knicks bandwagon, just not on the carmelo wagon, and win or lose, I am sure that will never change.. at least for me..... the question is, what happens if we don't win a ring? I am sure you will be right in here trying to sell that mortgaging our future was worth watching melo go ham, taking 40 shots but coming up just short to either the celts or heat.... so at night you can sit back starry eyed telling your kids how melo almost saved the knicks from getting swept in the second round, how great he was in the knicks 1 win.... how that game will go down next to the performace jordan had vs the jazz... doesn't matter if we lose.. We had 'THE BEST PUUUUUUURE SCORER".. DOING HIS thang in NY and that is all that mattered.. right?

The quicker you realize that rebuilding wasn't in the Knicks' game plans the quicker u will be able to move on...The Knicks didn't hire Donnie and MDA, pay them top dollar, to rebuild...The Knicks didn't pay Amare 100 mil per, to rebuild...Does Gallo or Lin look like the kind of players u build around to take on LeBron, Durant and Westbrook the next 10 years???..Be for real just once...

ok, lets be real.. so we chose to rebuild around a career loser? is this something I should be excited about? I am real.....all dolan brought in was another name who underachived, wrapped him up in a shiny new "i'm coming home" video and had you guys hook, line and sinker..

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

holfresh wrote:
The quicker you realize that rebuilding wasn't in the Knicks' game plans the quicker u will be able to move on...The Knicks didn't hire Donnie and MDA, pay them top dollar, to rebuild...The Knicks didn't pay Amare 100 mil per, to rebuild...Does Gallo or Lin look like the kind of players u build around to take on LeBron, Durant and Westbrook the next 10 years???..Be for real just once...

In TKF's mind: 1) Gallo is the next Larry Bird; 2)Mozgov is the next Ewing; 3) Lin is the next Stockton; 4) Melo is Renaldo Balkman AND the GM/Owner of the Knicks; and 5) Amar'e is Olden Polynice... LMAO

funny, in your mind, carmelo is the next kobe and lebron.. LOL....

and for the record, I am a huge amare fan, you are as clueless as your post indicate....

I am fine with amare... it is the self proclaimed leader of this team that can take a long walk off a short cliff.. him and his new" i am a changed man...AMEN!!" proclamations....

example

NUPE wrote:

NUPE wrote:
My point has always been to evaluate the totality of situations, to be fair and to be realistic. This is how I approach everything in life. I have no agenda for or against any player. I just call a spade a spade. I am still waiting for you to point out a team from the West that made the Finals with a trash roster like LeBron's Cavs. Waits again......

Also, only trolls resort to calling facts and logic excuses.

Still Waiting 3G4G.....

how does that make sense.. those teams didn't have lebron.. according to you guys, they had "TBPS".....

the key here obviously is lebron.. that was his point....

GodNa7ion wrote:Anytime someone says anything NEW about Melo people bring up OLD **** about Melo

He cant win

+1