gunsnewing wrote:Im more interested in seeing if Woodson will sit Amare when he is not trying to defend the opposing pf and insert camby for defense. He will never sit melo because melo gives effort on both sides for woodson. If he sits amare then I know for a fact woodson will sit anyone who doesnt give effort

haha, we were thinking the same thing there. I did see woodson pick on fields, for the life of me, I am not sure why he seemed to have it in for fields, but fields was on a short leash, while JR smith had carte blanche to jack up these playground shots it seemed...

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Smart? Someone said smart? We want Marbiry 2 on the team? AGAIN?
That WOULD be smart, indeed. We will soon be left smarting for more!

The guy who always wanted Isiah and Gilbert Arenas also wants T-Max, what else do you need to know
This whole "TOUGH" image people have created for Woodson is so tired and lame. He will be hard pressed to just handle MelO and JR. Now we have Kidd on top of that. What he WAS is irrelevant, what he IS, is what we will GET.

Woodson had no problem getting in JR's face in front of everyone when he f'ed up so I don't see him having any trouble handling him. As for Melo, I don't see him having issues with Woodson since he plans on making the most of the skills Anthony brings to the table. I can't remember the last time Kidd had issues with a coach. Trees, yes, coaches no.

Getting in someone's face doesn't resolve the problem. Especially with people who are already multi-millionaires. This is why the old school coaching mindset no longer fits. Woodson will eventually go the Larry Brown route. He can get in people's faces all he wants once a course guys tune him out we won't be able to get rid of him fast enough. Not saying that's how it should be. But "toughness" don't mean jack when you can't back it up and Dolan won't let Woodson mess with his favorite toys.

You're right, that alone doesn't do it, Woodson will also sit a player who doesn't perform. Case in point, right after Woodson took the head coaching job, when Lin was the talk of the NBA and a huge moneymaker for the Knicks, Jeremy was turning the ball over like he was under MDA and Woodson wasn't having it. He was pulling Lin early in the first, yelling at him, and it paid off because after getting pulled a few times, Lin's turnovers started to drop and he played under control. As far as that approach being old school, it worked for Rick Carlisle. His problem was knowing when to back off which is why he kept getting fired despite having a great track record. Pops still gets in people's faces so its not like that way of doing things is dead and gone. Woodson has backed it up. If he is willing to sit a cash cow like Lin to make a point, I don't believe he will having any problem sitting anyone else.

As far as McGrady, I never suggested it was necessarily a good move but it wouldn't bother me because I don't believe if he did cause problems that he would have the same effect as say a Marbury who was the face of the franchise. Can we do better? Yes. I don't see it as a move that will adversely affect the Knicks and its a low risk gamble IMO.

I will believe woodson when he sits carmelo and amare for not playing defense.

Fair enough. Its a deeper squad this year so Woodson should be more willing to do that this time around.

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Smart? Someone said smart? We want Marbiry 2 on the team? AGAIN?
That WOULD be smart, indeed. We will soon be left smarting for more!

The guy who always wanted Isiah and Gilbert Arenas also wants T-Max, what else do you need to know
This whole "TOUGH" image people have created for Woodson is so tired and lame. He will be hard pressed to just handle MelO and JR. Now we have Kidd on top of that. What he WAS is irrelevant, what he IS, is what we will GET.

Woodson had no problem getting in JR's face in front of everyone when he f'ed up so I don't see him having any trouble handling him. As for Melo, I don't see him having issues with Woodson since he plans on making the most of the skills Anthony brings to the table. I can't remember the last time Kidd had issues with a coach. Trees, yes, coaches no.

Getting in someone's face doesn't resolve the problem. Especially with people who are already multi-millionaires. This is why the old school coaching mindset no longer fits. Woodson will eventually go the Larry Brown route. He can get in people's faces all he wants once a course guys tune him out we won't be able to get rid of him fast enough. Not saying that's how it should be. But "toughness" don't mean jack when you can't back it up and Dolan won't let Woodson mess with his favorite toys.

You're right, that alone doesn't do it, Woodson will also sit a player who doesn't perform. Case in point, right after Woodson took the head coaching job, when Lin was the talk of the NBA and a huge moneymaker for the Knicks, Jeremy was turning the ball over like he was under MDA and Woodson wasn't having it. He was pulling Lin early in the first, yelling at him, and it paid off because after getting pulled a few times, Lin's turnovers started to drop and he played under control. As far as that approach being old school, it worked for Rick Carlisle. His problem was knowing when to back off which is why he kept getting fired despite having a great track record. Pops still gets in people's faces so its not like that way of doing things is dead and gone. Woodson has backed it up. If he is willing to sit a cash cow like Lin to make a point, I don't believe he will having any problem sitting anyone else.

As far as McGrady, I never suggested it was necessarily a good move but it wouldn't bother me because I don't believe if he did cause problems that he would have the same effect as say a Marbury who was the face of the franchise. Can we do better? Yes. I don't see it as a move that will adversely affect the Knicks and its a low risk gamble IMO.

I will believe woodson when he sits carmelo and amare for not playing defense.

Fair enough. Its a deeper squad this year so Woodson should be more willing to do that this time around.

I actually have no problem with T-mac.. is he a shell of his former self? yes he is, but the same can be said for kurt Thomas, camby and kidd.. but those guys are still smart and skilled players.. as is T-mac... for me, these are some of the guys you add on a short term basis to a young team.. which is why I thought for sure we would have kidd here to mentor lin, and a guy like T-mac could really work to help guys like shumpert....

gunsnewing wrote:Whats going on with Brandon Roy? Has he signed with a team yet?

He signed a deal with the TWolves.... 2 years a little over $10 mil.

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Smart? Someone said smart? We want Marbiry 2 on the team? AGAIN?
That WOULD be smart, indeed. We will soon be left smarting for more!

The guy who always wanted Isiah and Gilbert Arenas also wants T-Max, what else do you need to know
This whole "TOUGH" image people have created for Woodson is so tired and lame. He will be hard pressed to just handle MelO and JR. Now we have Kidd on top of that. What he WAS is irrelevant, what he IS, is what we will GET.

Woodson had no problem getting in JR's face in front of everyone when he f'ed up so I don't see him having any trouble handling him. As for Melo, I don't see him having issues with Woodson since he plans on making the most of the skills Anthony brings to the table. I can't remember the last time Kidd had issues with a coach. Trees, yes, coaches no.

Getting in someone's face doesn't resolve the problem. Especially with people who are already multi-millionaires. This is why the old school coaching mindset no longer fits. Woodson will eventually go the Larry Brown route. He can get in people's faces all he wants once a course guys tune him out we won't be able to get rid of him fast enough. Not saying that's how it should be. But "toughness" don't mean jack when you can't back it up and Dolan won't let Woodson mess with his favorite toys.

You're right, that alone doesn't do it, Woodson will also sit a player who doesn't perform. Case in point, right after Woodson took the head coaching job, when Lin was the talk of the NBA and a huge moneymaker for the Knicks, Jeremy was turning the ball over like he was under MDA and Woodson wasn't having it. He was pulling Lin early in the first, yelling at him, and it paid off because after getting pulled a few times, Lin's turnovers started to drop and he played under control. As far as that approach being old school, it worked for Rick Carlisle. His problem was knowing when to back off which is why he kept getting fired despite having a great track record. Pops still gets in people's faces so its not like that way of doing things is dead and gone. Woodson has backed it up. If he is willing to sit a cash cow like Lin to make a point, I don't believe he will having any problem sitting anyone else.

As far as McGrady, I never suggested it was necessarily a good move but it wouldn't bother me because I don't believe if he did cause problems that he would have the same effect as say a Marbury who was the face of the franchise. Can we do better? Yes. I don't see it as a move that will adversely affect the Knicks and its a low risk gamble IMO.

I will believe woodson when he sits carmelo and amare for not playing defense.

That's pretty much the point I am trying to make. Woodson talks a tough game, but he is not going to hold Melo and Amare accountable because he doesn't have the nuts to do it and he loves his job too much.

Gustav, everything you are saying is one form of punitive action or another. Players today need motivators and coaches who can help them visualize the promised land of championship glory. I don't think Woodson has any ability at all as a motivator or a energizer. Punishment goes only so far, one dimensional coaches make piss poor leaders. Check exhibit A - our last coach.

This is why it was so important to go after the few guys who can do both - like Pjax, Sloan etc.
Woodson will be exposed soon enough.

loweyecue wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Smart? Someone said smart? We want Marbiry 2 on the team? AGAIN?
That WOULD be smart, indeed. We will soon be left smarting for more!

The guy who always wanted Isiah and Gilbert Arenas also wants T-Max, what else do you need to know
This whole "TOUGH" image people have created for Woodson is so tired and lame. He will be hard pressed to just handle MelO and JR. Now we have Kidd on top of that. What he WAS is irrelevant, what he IS, is what we will GET.

Woodson had no problem getting in JR's face in front of everyone when he f'ed up so I don't see him having any trouble handling him. As for Melo, I don't see him having issues with Woodson since he plans on making the most of the skills Anthony brings to the table. I can't remember the last time Kidd had issues with a coach. Trees, yes, coaches no.

Getting in someone's face doesn't resolve the problem. Especially with people who are already multi-millionaires. This is why the old school coaching mindset no longer fits. Woodson will eventually go the Larry Brown route. He can get in people's faces all he wants once a course guys tune him out we won't be able to get rid of him fast enough. Not saying that's how it should be. But "toughness" don't mean jack when you can't back it up and Dolan won't let Woodson mess with his favorite toys.

You're right, that alone doesn't do it, Woodson will also sit a player who doesn't perform. Case in point, right after Woodson took the head coaching job, when Lin was the talk of the NBA and a huge moneymaker for the Knicks, Jeremy was turning the ball over like he was under MDA and Woodson wasn't having it. He was pulling Lin early in the first, yelling at him, and it paid off because after getting pulled a few times, Lin's turnovers started to drop and he played under control. As far as that approach being old school, it worked for Rick Carlisle. His problem was knowing when to back off which is why he kept getting fired despite having a great track record. Pops still gets in people's faces so its not like that way of doing things is dead and gone. Woodson has backed it up. If he is willing to sit a cash cow like Lin to make a point, I don't believe he will having any problem sitting anyone else.

As far as McGrady, I never suggested it was necessarily a good move but it wouldn't bother me because I don't believe if he did cause problems that he would have the same effect as say a Marbury who was the face of the franchise. Can we do better? Yes. I don't see it as a move that will adversely affect the Knicks and its a low risk gamble IMO.

I will believe woodson when he sits carmelo and amare for not playing defense.

That's pretty much the point I am trying to make. Woodson talks a tough game, but he is not going to hold Melo and Amare accountable because he doesn't have the nuts to do it and he loves his job too much.

Gustav, everything you are saying is one form of punitive action or another. Players today need motivators and coaches who can help them visualize the promised land of championship glory. I don't think Woodson has any ability at all as a motivator or a energizer. Punishment goes only so far, one dimensional coaches make piss poor leaders. Check exhibit A - our last coach.

This is why it was so important to go after the few guys who can do both - like Pjax, Sloan etc.
Woodson will be exposed soon enough.

Lol let the guy coach a full season before throwing him in the river. We gave MDA at least 3 and half years before we ran him out of town.

gunsnewing wrote:How did Larry Brown workout?

Brown had his own agenda separate from basketball. He was trying to get Isiah fired. When you start players whenever they're in their hometown you aren't being serious about coaching. Brown thought he could outlast Isiah but he had no understanding of the intense man love IT and Dolan shared. Brown has won on every level. First coach to win both a NCAA and a NBA championship so when you give him the talent and he's serious about getting the job done he can do great things. His downside is that he can be just as much of a diva as some of the the superstar athletes he coaches.

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:How did Larry Brown workout?

Brown had his own agenda separate from basketball. He was trying to get Isiah fired. When you start players whenever they're in their hometown you aren't being serious about coaching. Brown thought he could outlast Isiah but he had no understanding of the intense man love IT and Dolan shared. Brown has won on every level. First coach to win both a NCAA and a NBA championship so when you give him the talent and he's serious about getting the job done he can do great things. His downside is that he can be just as much of a diva as some of the the superstar athletes he coaches.

WHICH HAD he accomplished should have garnered him coach of the year honers, regardless of team record.. LOL..

I liked brown.... everyone knows how he operates. He tears down and then builds up.. Isiah and marbury had their own agenda as well.... Brown was too good for this dysfunctional organization...

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:How did Larry Brown workout?

Brown had his own agenda separate from basketball. He was trying to get Isiah fired. When you start players whenever they're in their hometown you aren't being serious about coaching. Brown thought he could outlast Isiah but he had no understanding of the intense man love IT and Dolan shared. Brown has won on every level. First coach to win both a NCAA and a NBA championship so when you give him the talent and he's serious about getting the job done he can do great things. His downside is that he can be just as much of a diva as some of the the superstar athletes he coaches.

I agree. Everything you said is spot on. I'm just trying to point out that bringing in PJax may not be the definitive answer. Not when you have James Dolan and his ego calling the shots and his manlove for Isiah like you said