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OT: NO ELECTION THREADS?
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mrKnickShot
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9/7/2012  1:39 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:Just watched Obama's acceptance speech. He is a truly gifted speaker.

If only he could be as good of a president as he is a speaker.

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SupremeCommander
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9/7/2012  1:48 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Just watched Obama's acceptance speech. He is a truly gifted speaker.

If only he could be as good of a president as he is a speaker.

he would be a natural at a beer or sneaker company... his marketing campaigns are awesome

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
mrKnickShot
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9/7/2012  2:02 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Just watched Obama's acceptance speech. He is a truly gifted speaker.

If only he could be as good of a president as he is a speaker.

he would be a natural at a beer or sneaker company... his marketing campaigns are awesome

He would make a solid GM for the knicks.

SupremeCommander
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9/7/2012  2:13 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Just watched Obama's acceptance speech. He is a truly gifted speaker.

If only he could be as good of a president as he is a speaker.

he would be a natural at a beer or sneaker company... his marketing campaigns are awesome

He would make a solid GM for the knicks.

Dolan would love him... Obama would make grand promises to the press, get everyone buying what he's selling, get the fans pumped, and then point the finger at the opposition when it doesn't work out and make statements like 'it could be so much worse. seriously, it was bad here before and I inherited that, but trust me, it could be worse. put someone else in charge that has a different plan and it probably--no, definitely--0would be worse. YES WE CAN'

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
VCoug
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9/7/2012  2:43 PM
Yes, it's Obama's fault that Republicans have been negotiating in bad faith for 4 years.
Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
SupremeCommander
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9/7/2012  2:57 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/7/2012  2:58 PM
lol... if you say something against the Democratic party and the smug following, that's the typical type of discourse you get. BTW, I voted for Obama in the last election and probably will in this one too. But that's because Romney may or may not be the anti-Christ. That doesn't mean Obama has delivered on any of his many grandiose promises
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
mrKnickShot
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9/7/2012  3:00 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:lol... if you say something against the Democratic party and the smug following, that's the typical type of discourse you get. BTW, I voted for Obama in the last election and probably will in this one too. But that's because Romney may or may not be the anti-Christ. That doesn't mean Obama has delivered on any of his many grandiose promises

Well said. Same here.

jrodmc
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9/7/2012  3:26 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:lol... if you say something against the Democratic party and the smug following, that's the typical type of discourse you get. BTW, I voted for Obama in the last election and probably will in this one too. But that's because Romney may or may not be the anti-Christ. That doesn't mean Obama has delivered on any of his many grandiose promises

Oh, but sure he will now! He's campaigning again! Hope and Change...errr..wait...Hope and ummmm...the Same! Yeah, that's it: Hope and More Hope!

The greatest one-shot orator ever who got elected to a job he had absolutely no experience for. No matter, four years from now, it will STILL be the Republican's fault! Being a Dem is so frickin simple!

Bonn1997
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9/7/2012  3:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/7/2012  3:35 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Just watched Obama's acceptance speech. He is a truly gifted speaker.

If only he could be as good of a president as he is a speaker.


I think he's adequate - not outstanding but not nearly as bad as the Republicans portray him as. I think he has to get at least a C+ for his performance, while Bush gets an F and Romney is just Bush on steroids.
JesseDark
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9/7/2012  6:36 PM
I disagree with you here about promises. The list of promises kept is longer than that of broken promises. Democrates have learned to fight fire with fire. By that I mean the Obama team throws a couple of punches and sharp elbows just like republicans have done for years.
Health care..check
End Iraqi war..check
Osama...check
Auto industry...check
tax cuts...check

What I want from the president in the next 4 years is to be more firm with congress. I think they were playing him taking his kindness as a weakness.

SupremeCommander wrote:lol... if you say something against the Democratic party and the smug following, that's the typical type of discourse you get. BTW, I voted for Obama in the last election and probably will in this one too. But that's because Romney may or may not be the anti-Christ. That doesn't mean Obama has delivered on any of his many grandiose promises
Bring back dee-fense
mrKnickShot
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9/7/2012  6:59 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Just watched Obama's acceptance speech. He is a truly gifted speaker.

If only he could be as good of a president as he is a speaker.


I think he's adequate - not outstanding but not nearly as bad as the Republicans portray him as. I think he has to get at least a C+ for his performance, while Bush gets an F and Romney is just Bush on steroids.

I voted for him and hoped for better. C+ is about right and of course, any politician is never as bad as he is portrayed by the opposition.

holfresh
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9/7/2012  8:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/7/2012  8:28 PM
Let's see...Avoid a global depression..Save the U.S./global banking system, Save the auto industry, when everyone tells u the contrary and GM now sell the most cars on the planet, Killed Osama our primary nemesis the last twenty years with two other Presidents failing didn't pull the trigger when they needed to...Simmered the Arab hatred towards the U.S. garnered over the previous 8 years...enacted a Healthcare bill that Presidents the last 60 years couldn't pull off... the DOW went from 7,000 up to 13,000, ...Stabilized a job market that was losing 700k per month to now making about 100k per month...Changed the face of Global warfare against Al Qaeda primarily using drones...Carefully and correctly navigated the Arab Spring without deep U.S. involvement contrary to what most Republicans wanted...Successfully negotiated an additional Nuclear reduction treaty with Russia...Got BP to fork over 20 billion to help with Gulf clean up and business re-reimbursement...Gays in the military, equal pay for women, Children get healthcare automatically...All that and he gets a C+...All in the face of stiff and absolute( not one congressman voting for his bills) Republican opposition as a strategy to win the 2012 general election...All that!!!..In the face of Europe on the brink of collapse...C+...Wow...Tough crowd...
Bonn1997
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9/7/2012  8:33 PM
According to the Gallup daily tracking poll, Obama got a seven point bounce in terms of job approval.
loweyecue
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9/7/2012  9:06 PM
holfresh wrote:Let's see...Avoid a global depression..Save the U.S./global banking system, Save the auto industry, when everyone tells u the contrary and GM now sell the most cars on the planet, Killed Osama our primary nemesis the last twenty years with two other Presidents failing didn't pull the trigger when they needed to...Simmered the Arab hatred towards the U.S. garnered over the previous 8 years...enacted a Healthcare bill that Presidents the last 60 years couldn't pull off... the DOW went from 7,000 up to 13,000, ...Stabilized a job market that was losing 700k per month to now making about 100k per month...Changed the face of Global warfare against Al Qaeda primarily using drones...Carefully and correctly navigated the Arab Spring without deep U.S. involvement contrary to what most Republicans wanted...Successfully negotiated an additional Nuclear reduction treaty with Russia...Got BP to fork over 20 billion to help with Gulf clean up and business re-reimbursement...Gays in the military, equal pay for women, Children get healthcare automatically...All that and he gets a C+...All in the face of stiff and absolute( not one congressman voting for his bills) Republican opposition as a strategy to win the 2012 general election...All that!!!..In the face of Europe on the brink of collapse...C+...Wow...Tough crowd...

Well said my good man. I have been very critical of him early on. I don't think he used the advantage he had the first two years to its fullest extent. I think he tried too hard to be bi-partisan but he did show he has nuts of steel on the healthcare situation and more so on the fiscal cliff standoff. Given the Republican blanket opposition to everything I would give him a solid A-.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
VCoug
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9/7/2012  11:00 PM
loweyecue wrote:
holfresh wrote:Let's see...Avoid a global depression..Save the U.S./global banking system, Save the auto industry, when everyone tells u the contrary and GM now sell the most cars on the planet, Killed Osama our primary nemesis the last twenty years with two other Presidents failing didn't pull the trigger when they needed to...Simmered the Arab hatred towards the U.S. garnered over the previous 8 years...enacted a Healthcare bill that Presidents the last 60 years couldn't pull off... the DOW went from 7,000 up to 13,000, ...Stabilized a job market that was losing 700k per month to now making about 100k per month...Changed the face of Global warfare against Al Qaeda primarily using drones...Carefully and correctly navigated the Arab Spring without deep U.S. involvement contrary to what most Republicans wanted...Successfully negotiated an additional Nuclear reduction treaty with Russia...Got BP to fork over 20 billion to help with Gulf clean up and business re-reimbursement...Gays in the military, equal pay for women, Children get healthcare automatically...All that and he gets a C+...All in the face of stiff and absolute( not one congressman voting for his bills) Republican opposition as a strategy to win the 2012 general election...All that!!!..In the face of Europe on the brink of collapse...C+...Wow...Tough crowd...

Well said my good man. I have been very critical of him early on. I don't think he used the advantage he had the first two years to its fullest extent. I think he tried too hard to be bi-partisan but he did show he has nuts of steel on the healthcare situation and more so on the fiscal cliff standoff. Given the Republican blanket opposition to everything I would give him a solid A-.

I agree with that. I think that he believed there would be some Republicans that would negotiate in good faith but they've been on a downward trajectory since Nixon was in office.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
Bonn1997
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9/8/2012  9:42 AM
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Just watched Obama's acceptance speech. He is a truly gifted speaker.

If only he could be as good of a president as he is a speaker.


I think he's adequate - not outstanding but not nearly as bad as the Republicans portray him as. I think he has to get at least a C+ for his performance, while Bush gets an F and Romney is just Bush on steroids.

I voted for him and hoped for better. C+ is about right and of course, any politician is never as bad as he is portrayed by the opposition.


I think Bush was. Yeah, I did hope for better too, though - no doubt.
arkrud
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9/8/2012  10:59 AM
The crisis in US is not local it is a global trend in all industrialized countries.
The time of bureaucracy is coming to the end. Bureaucrats were serving the progress and helped to increase wealth on nations after taking over from aristocrats and religious states. But now they became a cancer of the society themselves. On the government level (federal and local), in corporations, public and non-for-profit companies the army of bureaucrats is growing in uncontrollable fashion. This people do not produce anything anymore but consume more and more. This is not sustainable. The technocrats must take over. I am not toking about engineers and scientists but about professionals in any area who produce wealth. Both Dems and Reps are representing bureaucracy and so cannot solve any of the problems we have as a society.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
loweyecue
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9/8/2012  11:41 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Bush II was the worst president in my lifetime, and Obama is easily the most disappointing. I voted for the president in 08', but I won't be voting for either him or Romney. Some reasons why...

Barack Obama is a brand. And the Obama brand is designed to make us feel good about our government while corporate overlords loot the Treasury, our elected officials continue to have their palms greased by armies of corporate lobbyists, our corporate media diverts us with gossip and trivia and our imperial wars expand in the Middle East. Brand Obama is about being happy consumers. We are entertained. We feel hopeful. We like our president. We believe he is like us. But like all branded products spun out from the manipulative world of corporate advertising, we are being duped into doing and supporting a lot of things that are not in our interest. Chris Hedges


http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/54351480-82/corporations-tpp-foreign-trade.html.csp


This may be one of the most important stories ever ignored by the media. It’s unlikely you’re losing sleep over U.S. trade negotiations, but the unfolding agreement between the United States and eight Pacific nations — the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) — should cause every U.S. citizen, from the Sierra Club to the tea party to get their pitchforks and torches out of the closet and prepare to "storm the Bastille."

The TPP negotiations have been going on for two years under extreme secrecy, no information has been made available to either the press or Congress about the U.S. position. But on June 12 a document was leaked to the watchdog group, Public Citizen, revealing the current U.S. position and the reason for the secrecy. The contents are surreal and shocking.
Photos


The leaked document reveals that the trade agreement would give unprecedented political authority and legal protection to foreign corporations.

Specifically, TPP would (1) severely limit regulation of foreign corporations operating within U.S. boundaries, giving them greater rights than domestic firms, (2) extend incentives for U.S. firms to move investments and jobs to lower-wage countries, (3) establish an alternative legal system that gives foreign corporations and investors new rights to circumvent U.S. courts and laws, allowing them to sue the U.S. government before foreign tribunals and demand compensation for lost revenue due to U.S. laws they claim undermine their TPP privileges or their investment "expectations."

Despite NAFTA’s failures, corporations are arm-twisting the federal government to pursue trade agreements as inevitable and necessary for economic progress. But 26 of the 28 chapters of this agreement have nothing to do with trade. TPP was drafted with the oversight of 600 representatives of multinational corporations, who essentially gave themselves whatever they wanted; the environment, public health, worker safety, further domestic job losses be damned.

http://rt.com/usa/news/tpp-obama-corporations-trade-725/


Last month, Senator Ron Wyden (D-Oregon) introduced legislation that specifically targets the Obama administration by demanding that the White House open up on details about the proposed TPP. Despite serving as chair of the United States Senate Finance Subcommittee on International Trade, Customs, and Global Competitiveness, Sen. Wyden has been largely left uninformed about the details of the TPP all while the White House has opened up to the multinational corporations expected to profit through the proposal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html

This should be big news. Even while President Obama was saying that he thought a public option was a good idea and encouraging supporters to believe his healthcare plan would include one, he had promised for-profit hospital lobbyists that there would be no public option in the final bill.


http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/04/obamas-secret-plan-to-prop-up-housing-prices/


Private Equity firms are piling in to the housing market to take advantage of bargain basement prices on distressed inventory. The Obama administration is stealthily selling homes to big investors who are required to sign non-disclosure agreements to ensure that the public remains in the dark as to the magnitude of the giveaway. Aside from the steep discounts on the homes themselves, the government is also providing “synthetic financing to reduce the up-front capital required if they agree to form a joint venture with Fannie Mae and share proceeds from the rental or sale of properties.” (Businessweek)

In other words, US-taxpayers are providing extravagant financing for deep-pocket speculators who want to reduce their risk while maximizing their profits via additional leverage. The plan resembles Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner’s Public-Private Partnership Investment Program, (PPIP) which Columbia University professor Joseph Stiglitz denounced in an op-ed in the New York Times. Here’s what he said:

“The Obama administration’s $500 billion or more proposal to deal with America’s ailing banks has been described by some in the financial markets as a win-win-win proposal. Actually, it is a win-win-lose proposal: the banks win, investors win — and taxpayers lose.”

The same rule applies here. Speculators are getting lavish incentives (gov financing, low rates, and severe discounts) in secret deals to buy distressed inventory which should be available to the public at market prices. If that’s not a ripoff, then what is?

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/obama-goes-all-out-for-dirty-banker-deal-20110824

A power play is underway in the foreclosure arena, according to the New York Times.

On the one side is Eric Schneiderman, the New York Attorney General, who is conducting his own investigation into the era of securitizations – the practice of chopping up assets like mortgages and converting them into saleable securities – that led up to the financial crisis of 2007-2008.

On the other side is the Obama administration, the banks, and all the other state attorneys general.

This second camp has cooked up a deal that would allow the banks to walk away with just a seriously discounted fine from a generation of fraud that led to millions of people losing their homes.

The idea behind this federally-guided “settlement” is to concentrate and centralize all the legal exposure accrued by this generation of grotesque banker corruption in one place, put one single price tag on it that everyone can live with, and then stuff the details into a titanium canister before shooting it into deep space.

This is all about protecting the banks from future enforcement actions on both the civil and criminal sides. The plan is to provide year-after-year, repeat-offending banks like Bank of America with cost certainty, so that they know exactly how much they’ll have to pay in fines (trust me, it will end up being a tiny fraction of what they made off the fraudulent practices) and will also get to know for sure that there are no more criminal investigations in the pipeline.


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/obama-and-geithner-government-enron-style-20111220

The notion that what Wall Street firms did was merely unethical and not illegal is not just mistaken but preposterous: most everyone who works in the financial services industry understands that fraud right now is not just pervasive but epidemic, with many of the biggest banks committing entire departments to the routine commission of fraud and perjury – every single one of the major banks, for instance, devotes significant manpower to robosigning affidavits for foreclosures and credit card judgments, acts which are openly and inarguably criminal.

Banks and hedge funds routinely withhold derogatory information about the instruments they sell, they routinely trade on insider information or ahead of their own clients’ orders, and corrupt accounting is so rampant now that industry analysts have begun to figure in estimated levels of fraud in their examinations of the public disclosures of major financial companies.

Beyond that, as Jeff points out, Obama is simply not telling the truth about the supposedly insufficient penalties available to regulators. Employing the famous "mistakes were made" use of the passive tense, Obama copped out in his December 6 speech by saying that “penalties are too weak." As Jeff points out, what Obama should have said is that "the penalties my own regulators chose to dish out were too weak":

Moreover, the President is misleading us when he says that Wall Street firms violate anti-fraud law because the penalties are too weak. Repeat financial fraudsters don't pay relatively paltry -- and therefore painless -- penalties because of statutory caps on such penalties. Rather, regulatory officials, appointed by Obama, negotiated these comparatively trifling fines. This week, the F.D.I.C. settled a suit against Washington Mutual officials for just $64 million, an amount that will be covered mostly by insurance policies WaMu took out on behalf of executives, who themselves will pay just $400,000. And recently a federal judge rejected the S.E.C.'s latest settlement with Citigroup, an action even the Wall Street Journal called "a rebuke of the cozy relationship between regulators and the regulated that too often leaves justice as an orphan."

What makes Obama’s statements so dangerous is that they suggest an ongoing strategy of covering up the Wall Street crimewave. There is ample evidence out there that the Obama administration has eased up on prosecutions of Wall Street as part of a conscious strategy to prevent a collapse of confidence in our financial system, with the expected 50-state foreclosure settlement being the landmark effort in the cover-up, intended mainly to bury a generation of fraud. Here’s how Jeff puts it:

In Ron Suskind's book, Confidence Men, he quotes Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner as saying, "The confidence in the system is so fragile still... a disclosure of a fraud... could result in a run, just like Lehman." The Obama Administration is pushing hard for a 50-state settlement with the major banks for their fraudulent foreclosure practices, even though several state attorneys general have rejected this approach because, in their view, it would shield too much wrongdoing. Regrettably, Obama's top officials and lawyers seem more eager to restore the financial sector to health than establish criminal accountability among the executives who were in charge.

In other words, Geithner and Obama are behaving like Lehman executives before the crash of Lehman, not disclosing the full extent of the internal problem in order to keep investors from fleeing and creditors from calling in their chits. It’s worth noting that this kind of behavior – knowingly hiding the derogatory truth from the outside world in order to prevent a run on the bank – is, itself, fraud!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/20/us-drones-strikes-target-rescuers-pakistan

The US government has long maintained, reasonably enough, that a defining tactic of terrorism is to launch a follow-up attack aimed at those who go to the scene of the original attack to rescue the wounded and remove the dead. Morally, such methods have also been widely condemned by the west as a hallmark of savagery. Yet, as was demonstrated yet again this weekend in Pakistan, this has become one of the favorite tactics of the very same US government.

I am not worried about private equity buying foreclosed homes. If the government gets to make money out of it, that's ok too. People in general are completely averse to home buying compared to the available supply. Letting the homes sit a d rot isn't going to help anyone. And the piece is written like a conspiracy theory and makes me skeptical. The Govt is not in the business of dictating home values. Fannie-Freddie hold large number of foreclosures and need to get rid of them.

The one about the TPP really worried me though. I will do more research on that and try to read up on it. Doesn't look like the election will not impact that outcome since they both seem to be wanting to sign it. I will look to find some independent corroboration of that. Thanks for posting the links on these articles. I had no line of sight to the TPP thing before.

As for accusations of Fraud, I would just ask these people if they really WANT full disclosure??? Do people really want a run on banks? Collapse of the financial system? These same conspiracy theorists would turn on a dime to blame Obama for letting it happen.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Moonangie
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9/8/2012  12:53 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:lol... if you say something against the Democratic party and the smug following, that's the typical type of discourse you get. BTW, I voted for Obama in the last election and probably will in this one too. But that's because Romney may or may not be the anti-Christ. That doesn't mean Obama has delivered on any of his many grandiose promises

I understand and agree with the sentiments people here have expressed about how the President has come up short on his promises. But I still believe in him. He did not anticipate (nor should he have) the level of obstructionism the House Republicans would bring. That has never happened before. He also has to face the issue of getting re-elected: No first term President can throw all of his political capital into the game in his first term and hope to get re-elected. We have a sharply divided population (i.e., social wedge issues anyone?) and that prevents the sort of big idea implementations the country needed since 2008. Second term? That's a different story, at least as far as Obama is concerned. Then it becomes about his place in history, and I think he cares deeply about that.

BRIGGS, please vote. If you think that not voting is simply an act of conscience (it may be) please don't think that it has no bearing on the election outcome. Sitting on the fence won't help you or anyone else in this country. Yes, Obama has been somewhat underwhelming, but given the circumstances, he did a bang-up job. I think the economy will start to grow above 3% in the next four years, maybe a lot more. He will have an opportunity to reap the rewards of his patient approach. Please reconsider your position and vote. It matters so much.

Moonangie
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9/8/2012  12:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/8/2012  12:59 PM
holfresh wrote:Let's see...Avoid a global depression..Save the U.S./global banking system, Save the auto industry, when everyone tells u the contrary and GM now sell the most cars on the planet, Killed Osama our primary nemesis the last twenty years with two other Presidents failing didn't pull the trigger when they needed to...Simmered the Arab hatred towards the U.S. garnered over the previous 8 years...enacted a Healthcare bill that Presidents the last 60 years couldn't pull off... the DOW went from 7,000 up to 13,000, ...Stabilized a job market that was losing 700k per month to now making about 100k per month...Changed the face of Global warfare against Al Qaeda primarily using drones...Carefully and correctly navigated the Arab Spring without deep U.S. involvement contrary to what most Republicans wanted...Successfully negotiated an additional Nuclear reduction treaty with Russia...Got BP to fork over 20 billion to help with Gulf clean up and business re-reimbursement...Gays in the military, equal pay for women, Children get healthcare automatically...All that and he gets a C+...All in the face of stiff and absolute( not one congressman voting for his bills) Republican opposition as a strategy to win the 2012 general election...All that!!!..In the face of Europe on the brink of collapse...C+...Wow...Tough crowd...

Kudos holfesh! That was one of your better posts. +10000 to what you said very clearly.

Obama deserves a B+ or even an A-. I think he will bring his GPA up in the second term and establish an enduring legacy.

OT: NO ELECTION THREADS?

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