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That damn woodson has got it made, did he really make MDA look bad
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FoeDiddy
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8/8/2012  11:20 PM
I dont' care what Dantoni did in the past or what he does in the Future..All I know is he did a terrible job as a KNICKS coach. That's all I care about. He sucks in my book.
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CrushAlot
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8/8/2012  11:47 PM
CashMoney wrote:The simple truth of the matter is that us Knicks fans tend to have short memories.

We had no illuisons of winning anything in MDA's first 2 years on the job. The plan was to have Walsh clear cap space to set us up for a run at Lebron. His first 2 years on the job were throw away years. We all know that yet MDA haters find it necessary to point to his losing record during that time.

Here comes year 3 and we have STAT playing like a damn superhero for the Knicks to play .500 ball although many here will have memories of a championship caliber team who only started to falter due to trade rumors that were around since the start of the year.

At the start of last season, MDA himself stated that the Knicks had the talent to compete for a championship. This is where things become amusing to me. The Knicks were 6-4 leading up to the Memphis game, 2 games without STAT and TD runnng point. I did a game by game breakdown of the season in another thread so I'm not getting back into that but the Knicks record stood at 8-15 going into the Nets game (Start of Linsanity.) With Melo returning against the Nets, the Knicks record is at 16-16 and they close out the month of February going 2-2 and now have a record of 18-18

The Knicks open of the month of March going 0-6, 2 games without Tyson (Spurs & Bucks) leading up to MDA resignation and Woody taking over against the Blazers. STAT was in beast mode during the losing streak; 19.3 PTS, 8.3 RBDS, 1.1 BLKS, .548 FG%. Melo not so much; 20.5 PTS, 2.3 AST, 6.5 RBDS, .83 STLS, .388 FG%. As Melo is the man, he's going to get the blame...comes with the title. There is no denying that he did not play well. He was still putting up 18 shots a game but was hitting at only 38%.

However, this is what leaves me with a big question mark. Lin during the same 6 game stretch; 16.1 PTS, 7.3 ASTS, 3.8 TO, 2.5 STLS, .390 FG% Melo didn't shoot well but neither did Lin. Another big question mark during that stretch is that STAT is our 2nd best player yet he averaged 13.6 FGA's per game compared to Lin's 14.5 FGA per game. I'm not pointing this out to place blame on Lin!

Against the Celts and Mavs, Melo shoots 10 for 33, Lin shoots 10 for 29 and STAT shoots 17 for 34. Next game Melo goes 12-24, Lin goes 7 for 15 and STAT goes 6 for 12. Why in the hell is Lin taking more shots then STAT? Against the Sixers, Lin took the most shots on the team going 5 for 18. The issue that I have always had with MDA is the equal opporunity BS. You put the ball in your best players hands and have them take a majority of the shots. If STAT is an equal to Melo or our 2nd best player on the team why is he taking less shots per game than Lin? Melo should be taking a majority of the shots with STAT not too far behind.

Woodson had STAT, Melo and Lin for a total of 7 games and the Knicks go 6-1. Than as if by magic Melo become a better player. Hmmmm....interesting.

Melo during that 7 game stretch

14 PTS (6.5 points less)
1.5 STL (.67 more steals)
4.3 AST (2 assist more)
5.4 RBD (1.1 less)
.393 FG% (1.3% better)
13.4 FGA per game (4.6 less attempts per game)
Melo must have quit on Woody as well. He scored less, took less shots, didn't rebound as well as was still shooting less than 40% but become a more team oriented player becuase of the 2 additonal assists per game? Melo new found defensive intensity must not have carried over to hitting the boards either.

LIN
13.2 PTS (2.9 points less)
5.4 AST (1.9 less)
3.71 TO (.09 less)
1 STL (1.5 less)
.428 FG% (3.8% better)
9 FGA per game (5.5 less per game)

STAT
16.8 PTS (2.5 less)
8.1 RBD (.2 less)
1 BLK (same)
.578 FG% (3 % better)
10.8 FGA per game (2.8 less)

Seems to me that Woody made adjustements within the offense with regard to Melo & Lin and fine tuned things a bit with STAT. People can attribute the 6-1 record to the coaching change if they like but that also dismisses the 18-6 record over 36% of the season as well as his 9-4 (.692) record without Lin and without STAT.

Did Woody make MDA look bad? You're damn right he did.

Awesome post. Game, set, match.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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8/9/2012  12:52 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
CashMoney wrote:The simple truth of the matter is that us Knicks fans tend to have short memories.

We had no illuisons of winning anything in MDA's first 2 years on the job. The plan was to have Walsh clear cap space to set us up for a run at Lebron. His first 2 years on the job were throw away years. We all know that yet MDA haters find it necessary to point to his losing record during that time.

Here comes year 3 and we have STAT playing like a damn superhero for the Knicks to play .500 ball although many here will have memories of a championship caliber team who only started to falter due to trade rumors that were around since the start of the year.

At the start of last season, MDA himself stated that the Knicks had the talent to compete for a championship. This is where things become amusing to me. The Knicks were 6-4 leading up to the Memphis game, 2 games without STAT and TD runnng point. I did a game by game breakdown of the season in another thread so I'm not getting back into that but the Knicks record stood at 8-15 going into the Nets game (Start of Linsanity.) With Melo returning against the Nets, the Knicks record is at 16-16 and they close out the month of February going 2-2 and now have a record of 18-18

The Knicks open of the month of March going 0-6, 2 games without Tyson (Spurs & Bucks) leading up to MDA resignation and Woody taking over against the Blazers. STAT was in beast mode during the losing streak; 19.3 PTS, 8.3 RBDS, 1.1 BLKS, .548 FG%. Melo not so much; 20.5 PTS, 2.3 AST, 6.5 RBDS, .83 STLS, .388 FG%. As Melo is the man, he's going to get the blame...comes with the title. There is no denying that he did not play well. He was still putting up 18 shots a game but was hitting at only 38%.

However, this is what leaves me with a big question mark. Lin during the same 6 game stretch; 16.1 PTS, 7.3 ASTS, 3.8 TO, 2.5 STLS, .390 FG% Melo didn't shoot well but neither did Lin. Another big question mark during that stretch is that STAT is our 2nd best player yet he averaged 13.6 FGA's per game compared to Lin's 14.5 FGA per game. I'm not pointing this out to place blame on Lin!

Against the Celts and Mavs, Melo shoots 10 for 33, Lin shoots 10 for 29 and STAT shoots 17 for 34. Next game Melo goes 12-24, Lin goes 7 for 15 and STAT goes 6 for 12. Why in the hell is Lin taking more shots then STAT? Against the Sixers, Lin took the most shots on the team going 5 for 18. The issue that I have always had with MDA is the equal opporunity BS. You put the ball in your best players hands and have them take a majority of the shots. If STAT is an equal to Melo or our 2nd best player on the team why is he taking less shots per game than Lin? Melo should be taking a majority of the shots with STAT not too far behind.

Woodson had STAT, Melo and Lin for a total of 7 games and the Knicks go 6-1. Than as if by magic Melo become a better player. Hmmmm....interesting.

Melo during that 7 game stretch

14 PTS (6.5 points less)
1.5 STL (.67 more steals)
4.3 AST (2 assist more)
5.4 RBD (1.1 less)
.393 FG% (1.3% better)
13.4 FGA per game (4.6 less attempts per game)
Melo must have quit on Woody as well. He scored less, took less shots, didn't rebound as well as was still shooting less than 40% but become a more team oriented player becuase of the 2 additonal assists per game? Melo new found defensive intensity must not have carried over to hitting the boards either.

LIN
13.2 PTS (2.9 points less)
5.4 AST (1.9 less)
3.71 TO (.09 less)
1 STL (1.5 less)
.428 FG% (3.8% better)
9 FGA per game (5.5 less per game)

STAT
16.8 PTS (2.5 less)
8.1 RBD (.2 less)
1 BLK (same)
.578 FG% (3 % better)
10.8 FGA per game (2.8 less)

Seems to me that Woody made adjustements within the offense with regard to Melo & Lin and fine tuned things a bit with STAT. People can attribute the 6-1 record to the coaching change if they like but that also dismisses the 18-6 record over 36% of the season as well as his 9-4 (.692) record without Lin and without STAT.

Did Woody make MDA look bad? You're damn right he did.

Awesome post. Game, set, match.

"Game, Set, Match"? Really?

So the big point here is that for the 7 games Woody had Lin, STAT and Melo he was 6-1 and it was because of all the changes in strategy that Woody made? REALLY?

Just what changes did Woody make on the very day that MDA resigned and the subsequent 7 games with almost no practice time to make any changes? ESPECIALLY offensive changes! Every statement made by the players and Woody himself expressed that he made next to NO CHANGES in those early days, so what was the real reason for the sudden improvement and on what side of the ball did the bulk of the improvement come? ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE and not the offensive side. In addition they didn't change the defense either!!!

Besides, Woodson said, he barely has any time to tinker with D’Antoni’s offense so for the time being he’ll leave well enough alone, adding his own wrinkles here and there. But when asked if he had anything specifically planned for Anthony in hopes of lifting him out of his offensive funk, Woodson sounded almost defiant.

“I’m not concerned with Melo getting a whole bunch of shots. There’s enough shots for our team and enough good players that can make a difference,” said Woodson. “I’m not taking anything away from Melo. We’re still doing some of the things that Mike D’Antoni put in here. I’d be crazy to change everything right now [because] there’s not enough time in the day to change everything. … But I like [when] the opposing team doesn’t know where it’s going to come from.”

Ultimately, Woodson said, it’s about his specialty and he can only hope that guys continue to buy into his scheme.

“My main concern is defense and rebounding. We’ll figure it out offensively as we go along,” Woodson said.

“I think now we’re playing at a different level, a very high level,” Anthony said. “Guys seem like they’re committed on every possession, taking every possession serious. We want to go into Philly and take on that challenge.”

Said Steve Novak, “If we play defense like this, we can beat anybody.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/new_coach_win_streak_rolls_on_joy_SwhKE5p3VsmxDA5LeW4YtN#ixzz231JB35Od

According to Woodson, the key to the sudden spike in performance has been that all the players have bought in — something that allegedly wasn’t happening behind the scenes during D’Antoni’s reign: “Everyone is starting to buy in. And that’s what winning does. That’s the beauty of 14-15 guys making a commitment. … I just think we’re playing for something again and the energy level has really gone up. We needed that because we were sinking a little bit. It’s been a total team effort on our part and they’re making sure everyone understands our defense assignments. Our offense has even picked up because we’re generating offense through our defense.”

After one memorable week as the Knicks’ interim coach, Mike Woodson would agree — even if Woodson “can’t explain” why Carmelo Anthony had little interest in hustling for Mike D’Antoni but has exerted himself for Woodson during a winning streak that reached five games Wednesday night with a fiercely contested 82-79 win over the 76ers.

Isn’t it obvious why? Anthony has had no choice after using his credibility lifeline to win his war of wills with D’Antoni.

It had to become D’Antoni’s fault that Anthony’s debut in New York, while not lacking in pomp, had precipitated an extraordinary and unflattering set of circumstances. After Anthony introduced himself by firing up jumpers as if Madison Square Garden were Rucker Park, the production of several teammates diminished and the Knicks failed to win a playoff game. About a third of the way through this lockout-shortened season, D’Antoni handed Anthony’s ball to Jeremy Lin.

Could Melo admit that any of the Knicks’ maladroitness was his fault? Not unless he was ready to be accountable for himself as well as for how much his apparent pouting affected the team.

His recent statement — “The last three games, my focus was to have an energy that I haven’t had so far this season” — was really quite amazing, coming from a player making $18.5 million this season, or the eighth-highest salary in the N.B.A. It may also have been the most honest thing he has said since becoming a Knick last season.

Say this for Woodson: He put Anthony’s dereliction of duty in its proper context when he noted that the Knicks “probably wouldn’t be sitting here in this position fighting for the playoffs” if Anthony had not used D’Antoni to shield himself from the pressure of the New York stage. And since Woodson was putatively in charge of the defense when Anthony decided he didn’t have to play any, the immediate turnaround should not solely be a referendum on D’Antoni.

FoeDiddy
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8/9/2012  1:50 AM
Yeah Game Set Match..that article says nothing but a writers opinion. CashMoney wins that debate with a wild idea to actually use facts and numbers. Mind boggling.
nixluva
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8/9/2012  2:37 AM
FoeDiddy wrote:Yeah Game Set Match..that article says nothing but a writers opinion. CashMoney wins that debate with a wild idea to actually use facts and numbers. Mind boggling.

Reading is fundamental. You seem to have missed all of the quotes from Woody and players and I have more quotes saying the same things. Not much changed except finally Melo started to play harder and he and his teammates realized they needed to play harder. Same offense and same defense MDA had them playing, just more effort and sacrifice. You know the same things they were doing during Linsanity before Melo came back. The proof is right in front of your eyes but you won't look. You'd rather close your eyes and lie to yourself that somehow with no practice Woody just magically changed everything and that's why the team won those early games. Ignore the fact that the team had a heavy schedule with back to backs and the coach himself said he couldn't make any changes. The coach himself said he was at a loss to explain the sudden change in energy. It's OK keep deluding yourself and hearing what you want to hear and seeing what you want to see.

infinitilov100
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8/9/2012  3:01 AM
knicks1248 wrote:When you think about it, he's walking into a situation that has a core, and now has a team and a full training camp of his type of players. No player on the roster is worried about being shipped out, everybody is coming in with there roles defined..

If MDA had what Woodson has now...I see MDA as the best coach (or one of the best) to coach a knick team..I hated MDA for his defensive switching philosophy, hated him for giving role players the green light so much, and hated him for what he did to Steph when we were desperate for a pg(didn't like steph much either) and had one of the better ones in the league (talent wise) in our locker room

But the one thing I could say, MDA is a very good coach who completely got shafted for 4 yrs and never had a lagit shot at all..here comes woodson to reap the rewards..

I say woodson gets fired if this team is not top 4 in the league. Were going to go from a team that played no defense and could score with anybody, to a team with excellent defense that can't score 90 pts and will have the worse shooting % in the league..

The Media and fans alike will be clamoring for his head..The only Thing that will save woodson IS MDA's PLAYBOOK..Trust and Believe that half court style will not work with amare, felton and melo..

The 18-6 run was MDA's playbook for the most part, and he said it in almost every post game..

Yes go ahead and blame him for all MDA's failure. There are pictures of Woodson showing up at Amar'es workout with Olajuwon. Do you think in your wildest dreams that MDA would show up at players workouts?

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8/9/2012  3:05 AM
Nalod wrote:Woodson gets fired if he underperforms.

But underperform AND have a sexual harassment suit pending and you get extended.

Thats how it works.

infinitilov100
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8/9/2012  3:07 AM
Nalod wrote:Woodson gets fired if he underperforms.

But underperform AND have a sexual harassment suit pending and you get extended.

Thats how it works.

that's why Lebron did not want to come here. He did not want to play for a coach who does not play defense.

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8/9/2012  3:13 AM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:I always hear how great MDA was...What a great coach, LB was great too...Just not in NY...That Dolan!!!!...MDA got out coached at every turn in the playoffs against Boston...I'm not even comparing players..Doc made him look...Don't get me started!!!!

You really think you can just blatantly state GARBAGE and get away with it? For one thing Doc had a Championship level SL with players that actually fit together and had been thru the wars together. MDA was coaching a team that had just been thrown together and wasn't nearly as good. Then you have the injuries to key players... But let's just ignore the f'n facts. Man GTFO with this BS!
Don't say another word in this thread if you're gonna spew this crap.

the fact is that defense wins games everytime.
infinitilov100
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8/9/2012  3:21 AM
foosballnick wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:When you think about it, he's walking into a situation that has a core, and now has a team and a full training camp of his type of players. No player on the roster is worried about being shipped out, everybody is coming in with there roles defined..

If MDA had what Woodson has now...I see MDA as the best coach (or one of the best) to coach a knick team..I hated MDA for his defensive switching philosophy, hated him for giving role players the green light so much, and hated him for what he did to Steph when we were desperate for a pg(didn't like steph much either) and had one of the better ones in the league (talent wise) in our locker room

But the one thing I could say, MDA is a very good coach who completely got shafted for 4 yrs and never had a lagit shot at all..here comes woodson to reap the rewards..

I say woodson gets fired if this team is not top 4 in the league. Were going to go from a team that played no defense and could score with anybody, to a team with excellent defense that can't score 90 pts and will have the worse shooting % in the league..

The Media and fans alike will be clamoring for his head..The only Thing that will save woodson IS MDA's PLAYBOOK..Trust and Believe that half court style will not work with amare, felton and melo..

The 18-6 run was MDA's playbook for the most part, and he said it in almost every post game..

Couple problems with this premis.....

If MDA was the best Knick Coach and could not win with the talent (or lack of) that was given to him, what does that make Walsh? According to your line of thought he would have to be a really crappy GM.

If MDA was the best Knick coach, why was Woodson able to lead the team to a much better record, with the same roster and same playbook? You may point to Melo not giving 100% as an answer, however, a coach is paid to win games. Part of that may be to have to motivate players or make adjustments based on the type of talent a roster has.

MDA may be a good coach, but he failed here and then quit on the team mid-year. Think about it as if a prominent player elsewhere is brought to the Knicks and in his 4th year decides he no longer wants to play for a team and benches himself mid year and ride out his contract on the pines. Would we be praising that player as the best Knick ever?


MDA was alergic to defense. He loved to wait until the team's down by 20 before calling a timeout. When he does call a timeout he only uses two words to the players. The two words are Let's go! and they don't go nowhere...
infinitilov100
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8/9/2012  3:23 AM
misterearl wrote:Mike Woodson was drafted by the Knicks

Woodson also played under Red Holzman and is guided by Red's pearls as a coach.

Mike Woodson is simply a better person than Mike D'Antoni and players respond to that.

It ain't that deep.

Good Man. Happy Players.

+1000000000000000000

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8/9/2012  3:26 AM
CashMoney wrote:
Did Woody make MDA look bad? You're damn right he did.

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8/9/2012  3:31 AM
jrodmc wrote:
FoeDiddy wrote:
CashMoney wrote:The simple truth of the matter is that us Knicks fans tend to have short memories.

We had no illuisons of winning anything in MDA's first 2 years on the job. The plan was to have Walsh clear cap space to set us up for a run at Lebron. His first 2 years on the job were throw away years. We all know that yet MDA haters find it necessary to point to his losing record during that time.

Here comes year 3 and we have STAT playing like a damn superhero for the Knicks to play .500 ball although many here will have memories of a championship caliber team who only started to falter due to trade rumors that were around since the start of the year.

At the start of last season, MDA himself stated that the Knicks had the talent to compete for a championship. This is where things become amusing to me. The Knicks were 6-4 leading up to the Memphis game, 2 games without STAT and TD runnng point. I did a game by game breakdown of the season in another thread so I'm not getting back into that but the Knicks record stood at 8-15 going into the Nets game (Start of Linsanity.) With Melo returning against the Nets, the Knicks record is at 16-16 and they close out the month of February going 2-2 and now have a record of 18-18

The Knicks open of the month of March going 0-6, 2 games without Tyson (Spurs & Bucks) leading up to MDA resignation and Woody taking over against the Blazers. STAT was in beast mode during the losing streak; 19.3 PTS, 8.3 RBDS, 1.1 BLKS, .548 FG%. Melo not so much; 20.5 PTS, 2.3 AST, 6.5 RBDS, .83 STLS, .388 FG%. As Melo is the man, he's going to get the blame...comes with the title. There is no denying that he did not play well. He was still putting up 18 shots a game but was hitting at only 38%.

However, this is what leaves me with a big question mark. Lin during the same 6 game stretch; 16.1 PTS, 7.3 ASTS, 3.8 TO, 2.5 STLS, .390 FG% Melo didn't shoot well but neither did Lin. Another big question mark during that stretch is that STAT is our 2nd best player yet he averaged 13.6 FGA's per game compared to Lin's 14.5 FGA per game. I'm not pointing this out to place blame on Lin!

Against the Celts and Mavs, Melo shoots 10 for 33, Lin shoots 10 for 29 and STAT shoots 17 for 34. Next game Melo goes 12-24, Lin goes 7 for 15 and STAT goes 6 for 12. Why in the hell is Lin taking more shots then STAT? Against the Sixers, Lin took the most shots on the team going 5 for 18. The issue that I have always had with MDA is the equal opporunity BS. You put the ball in your best players hands and have them take a majority of the shots. If STAT is an equal to Melo or our 2nd best player on the team why is he taking less shots per game than Lin? Melo should be taking a majority of the shots with STAT not too far behind.

Woodson had STAT, Melo and Lin for a total of 7 games and the Knicks go 6-1. Than as if by magic Melo become a better player. Hmmmm....interesting.

Melo during that 7 game stretch

14 PTS (6.5 points less)
1.5 STL (.67 more steals)
4.3 AST (2 assist more)
5.4 RBD (1.1 less)
.393 FG% (1.3% better)
13.4 FGA per game (4.6 less attempts per game)
Melo must have quit on Woody as well. He scored less, took less shots, didn't rebound as well as was still shooting less than 40% but become a more team oriented player becuase of the 2 additonal assists per game? Melo new found defensive intensity must not have carried over to hitting the boards either.

LIN
13.2 PTS (2.9 points less)
5.4 AST (1.9 less)
3.71 TO (.09 less)
1 STL (1.5 less)
.428 FG% (3.8% better)
9 FGA per game (5.5 less per game)

STAT
16.8 PTS (2.5 less)
8.1 RBD (.2 less)
1 BLK (same)
.578 FG% (3 % better)
10.8 FGA per game (2.8 less)

Seems to me that Woody made adjustements within the offense with regard to Melo & Lin and fine tuned things a bit with STAT. People can attribute the 6-1 record to the coaching change if they like but that also dismisses the 18-6 record over 36% of the season as well as his 9-4 (.692) record without Lin and without STAT.

Did Woody make MDA look bad? You're damn right he did.

You are wasting your time with this incredible post. MDA Lovers, Lin Worshippers & Melo haters will ignore this and continue with their rants.

I was listening to Dino Costa on the radio the other day..people really do hate Melo..You would think Melo slapped his mother. He stated Melo will never win anything, Melo only cares about Melo and he was jealous of Lin.

i really hope the Knicks shut people up this year.


I wouldn't worry about it. If the KnYou will notice not one of them will respond to this either. Posting coherent, logical positivism usually gets you ignored.
icks do shut people up this coming season, all these Melo haters will have long moved on to the Nyets board.

Or Denver, right after the first time Gallo puts up at least 20 points in a game.

Or Houston to follow Linsanity II or Atlanta, to watch Atkinson turn into PhilJax...


+1000000000
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8/9/2012  8:19 AM
Woodson got the most out of the players MDA didn't, thats what it comes down to. Woodson challenged and put the players in position to succeed and MDA didn't.

I wouldn't be suprised If Woodson is the one that put it in Amare's head to work with Hakeem and develop the post game and is taking the time to check up on the progress. Wouldn't be suprised if Woodson is the one that has the players motivated and hungry and looking to get in great shape during the offseason.

It would be a dream if Woodson can get Melo and Amare to get a 2 man game down either off the PNR or with Amare out of the post.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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8/9/2012  9:34 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/9/2012  9:51 AM
Summer Vacation

newyorknewyork wrote:Woodson got the most out of the players MDA didn't, thats what it comes down to. Woodson challenged and put the players in position to succeed and MDA didn't.

I wouldn't be suprised If Woodson is the one that put it in Amare's head to work with Hakeem and develop the post game and is taking the time to check up on the progress. Wouldn't be suprised if Woodson is the one that has the players motivated and hungry and looking to get in great shape during the offseason.

nyny - The fact Woodson is in Houston, taking notes at the Olajuwon Boot Camp, tells us that Woodson is engaged with his players during the off season in ways that Mike 'Antoni NEVER demonstrated.

Is it a coincidence that all three of the Knicks leaders are working their collective butts off over the summer?

Carmelo, Chandler (and Prigioni) are in London. Amar'e is paying his way to work with a hall of famer.

Forget the freakin' playbook. Forget the detailed and persuasive stat work of CashMoney (nice job) for a moment.

Mike Woodson understands the mindset of the contemporary pro player and how to motivate them. He supports them by being clear about his expectations. It is not about strategy or tactics. "You work hard for me, I promise to support you." In the case of Amar'e, Woodson's presence in Houston says, "I will be there for you...I care about what you are doing, no matter where - I'm on a plane to support your efforts."

That is huge.

nixluva - Many times, it simply distills down to whether the player embraces that a coach is being genuine and fair. When a player trusts the assessment of his head coach, that player will ignore any obstacle to winning.

Good Person. Happy Players.

once a knick always a knick
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8/9/2012  9:48 AM
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
CashMoney wrote:The simple truth of the matter is that us Knicks fans tend to have short memories.

We had no illuisons of winning anything in MDA's first 2 years on the job. The plan was to have Walsh clear cap space to set us up for a run at Lebron. His first 2 years on the job were throw away years. We all know that yet MDA haters find it necessary to point to his losing record during that time.

Here comes year 3 and we have STAT playing like a damn superhero for the Knicks to play .500 ball although many here will have memories of a championship caliber team who only started to falter due to trade rumors that were around since the start of the year.

At the start of last season, MDA himself stated that the Knicks had the talent to compete for a championship. This is where things become amusing to me. The Knicks were 6-4 leading up to the Memphis game, 2 games without STAT and TD runnng point. I did a game by game breakdown of the season in another thread so I'm not getting back into that but the Knicks record stood at 8-15 going into the Nets game (Start of Linsanity.) With Melo returning against the Nets, the Knicks record is at 16-16 and they close out the month of February going 2-2 and now have a record of 18-18

The Knicks open of the month of March going 0-6, 2 games without Tyson (Spurs & Bucks) leading up to MDA resignation and Woody taking over against the Blazers. STAT was in beast mode during the losing streak; 19.3 PTS, 8.3 RBDS, 1.1 BLKS, .548 FG%. Melo not so much; 20.5 PTS, 2.3 AST, 6.5 RBDS, .83 STLS, .388 FG%. As Melo is the man, he's going to get the blame...comes with the title. There is no denying that he did not play well. He was still putting up 18 shots a game but was hitting at only 38%.

However, this is what leaves me with a big question mark. Lin during the same 6 game stretch; 16.1 PTS, 7.3 ASTS, 3.8 TO, 2.5 STLS, .390 FG% Melo didn't shoot well but neither did Lin. Another big question mark during that stretch is that STAT is our 2nd best player yet he averaged 13.6 FGA's per game compared to Lin's 14.5 FGA per game. I'm not pointing this out to place blame on Lin!

Against the Celts and Mavs, Melo shoots 10 for 33, Lin shoots 10 for 29 and STAT shoots 17 for 34. Next game Melo goes 12-24, Lin goes 7 for 15 and STAT goes 6 for 12. Why in the hell is Lin taking more shots then STAT? Against the Sixers, Lin took the most shots on the team going 5 for 18. The issue that I have always had with MDA is the equal opporunity BS. You put the ball in your best players hands and have them take a majority of the shots. If STAT is an equal to Melo or our 2nd best player on the team why is he taking less shots per game than Lin? Melo should be taking a majority of the shots with STAT not too far behind.

Woodson had STAT, Melo and Lin for a total of 7 games and the Knicks go 6-1. Than as if by magic Melo become a better player. Hmmmm....interesting.

Melo during that 7 game stretch

14 PTS (6.5 points less)
1.5 STL (.67 more steals)
4.3 AST (2 assist more)
5.4 RBD (1.1 less)
.393 FG% (1.3% better)
13.4 FGA per game (4.6 less attempts per game)
Melo must have quit on Woody as well. He scored less, took less shots, didn't rebound as well as was still shooting less than 40% but become a more team oriented player becuase of the 2 additonal assists per game? Melo new found defensive intensity must not have carried over to hitting the boards either.

LIN
13.2 PTS (2.9 points less)
5.4 AST (1.9 less)
3.71 TO (.09 less)
1 STL (1.5 less)
.428 FG% (3.8% better)
9 FGA per game (5.5 less per game)

STAT
16.8 PTS (2.5 less)
8.1 RBD (.2 less)
1 BLK (same)
.578 FG% (3 % better)
10.8 FGA per game (2.8 less)

Seems to me that Woody made adjustements within the offense with regard to Melo & Lin and fine tuned things a bit with STAT. People can attribute the 6-1 record to the coaching change if they like but that also dismisses the 18-6 record over 36% of the season as well as his 9-4 (.692) record without Lin and without STAT.

Did Woody make MDA look bad? You're damn right he did.

Awesome post. Game, set, match.

"Game, Set, Match"? Really?

So the big point here is that for the 7 games Woody had Lin, STAT and Melo he was 6-1 and it was because of all the changes in strategy that Woody made? REALLY?

Just what changes did Woody make on the very day that MDA resigned and the subsequent 7 games with almost no practice time to make any changes? ESPECIALLY offensive changes! Every statement made by the players and Woody himself expressed that he made next to NO CHANGES in those early days, so what was the real reason for the sudden improvement and on what side of the ball did the bulk of the improvement come? ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE and not the offensive side. In addition they didn't change the defense either!!!

Besides, Woodson said, he barely has any time to tinker with D’Antoni’s offense so for the time being he’ll leave well enough alone, adding his own wrinkles here and there. But when asked if he had anything specifically planned for Anthony in hopes of lifting him out of his offensive funk, Woodson sounded almost defiant.

“I’m not concerned with Melo getting a whole bunch of shots. There’s enough shots for our team and enough good players that can make a difference,” said Woodson. “I’m not taking anything away from Melo. We’re still doing some of the things that Mike D’Antoni put in here. I’d be crazy to change everything right now [because] there’s not enough time in the day to change everything. … But I like [when] the opposing team doesn’t know where it’s going to come from.”

Ultimately, Woodson said, it’s about his specialty and he can only hope that guys continue to buy into his scheme.

“My main concern is defense and rebounding. We’ll figure it out offensively as we go along,” Woodson said.

“I think now we’re playing at a different level, a very high level,” Anthony said. “Guys seem like they’re committed on every possession, taking every possession serious. We want to go into Philly and take on that challenge.”

Said Steve Novak, “If we play defense like this, we can beat anybody.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/new_coach_win_streak_rolls_on_joy_SwhKE5p3VsmxDA5LeW4YtN#ixzz231JB35Od

According to Woodson, the key to the sudden spike in performance has been that all the players have bought in — something that allegedly wasn’t happening behind the scenes during D’Antoni’s reign: “Everyone is starting to buy in. And that’s what winning does. That’s the beauty of 14-15 guys making a commitment. … I just think we’re playing for something again and the energy level has really gone up. We needed that because we were sinking a little bit. It’s been a total team effort on our part and they’re making sure everyone understands our defense assignments. Our offense has even picked up because we’re generating offense through our defense.”

After one memorable week as the Knicks’ interim coach, Mike Woodson would agree — even if Woodson “can’t explain” why Carmelo Anthony had little interest in hustling for Mike D’Antoni but has exerted himself for Woodson during a winning streak that reached five games Wednesday night with a fiercely contested 82-79 win over the 76ers.

Isn’t it obvious why? Anthony has had no choice after using his credibility lifeline to win his war of wills with D’Antoni.

It had to become D’Antoni’s fault that Anthony’s debut in New York, while not lacking in pomp, had precipitated an extraordinary and unflattering set of circumstances. After Anthony introduced himself by firing up jumpers as if Madison Square Garden were Rucker Park, the production of several teammates diminished and the Knicks failed to win a playoff game. About a third of the way through this lockout-shortened season, D’Antoni handed Anthony’s ball to Jeremy Lin.

Could Melo admit that any of the Knicks’ maladroitness was his fault? Not unless he was ready to be accountable for himself as well as for how much his apparent pouting affected the team.

His recent statement — “The last three games, my focus was to have an energy that I haven’t had so far this season” — was really quite amazing, coming from a player making $18.5 million this season, or the eighth-highest salary in the N.B.A. It may also have been the most honest thing he has said since becoming a Knick last season.

Say this for Woodson: He put Anthony’s dereliction of duty in its proper context when he noted that the Knicks “probably wouldn’t be sitting here in this position fighting for the playoffs” if Anthony had not used D’Antoni to shield himself from the pressure of the New York stage. And since Woodson was putatively in charge of the defense when Anthony decided he didn’t have to play any, the immediate turnaround should not solely be a referendum on D’Antoni.

Did Woodson make MDA look bad? Yes...how can you not see this?

Woodson said himself that the a major difference was that ALL PLAYERS bought in. The TEAM WAS SINKING.

This has nothing to do with changing offensive and defensive schemes. Woodson did/does many things that MDA did not. How many times have you seen Woody call a timeout after a 6-0 run and lace into players? Woodson let it be know from the onset that he was holding all players accountable!

It wasn't just Melo who was bringing more energy into the games. The ENITRE TEAM did.

Woodson did say that if Melo played with more energy "probably wouldn’t be sitting here in this position fighting for the playoffs”.... key word being probably. If MDA is not desperate and doesn't play Lin the Knicks PROBABLY don't make the playoffs. If STAT came into the season in better shape and could hit a jumper the Knicks PROBABLY wouldn't be fighting for a playoff spot. If the Knicks don't pick up Novak from waivers the Knicks PROBABLY don't make the playoffs.

Woodson let it be known that Melo and the rest of the team would be held accountable for their play. When did MDA EVER do this? Doesn't this in itself make MDA look bad?

Seriously, you can keep typing away about offensive and defensive schemes not being changed. You can place 100% of the blame on Melo for not playing with a higher energy level from the onset. The bottom line is that the team played MUCH HARDER for Woodson deserves credit for in game adjustments and substitution patterns.

As far as the article itself is concerned.....it's an opinion piece, nothing more. "After Anthony introduced himself by firing up jumpers as if Madison Square Garden were Rucker Park, the production of several teammates diminished and the Knicks failed to win a playoff game." What? Whose production diminished? Is this dude not aware that 4 starters were traded away by the Knicks? No mention that Melo was playing by his damn self after STAT and Billups went down with injuries.

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
CashMoney
Posts: 23145
Alba Posts: 4
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Member: #3374
USA
8/9/2012  9:50 AM
misterearl wrote:Summer Vacation

newyorknewyork wrote:Woodson got the most out of the players MDA didn't, thats what it comes down to. Woodson challenged and put the players in position to succeed and MDA didn't.

I wouldn't be suprised If Woodson is the one that put it in Amare's head to work with Hakeem and develop the post game and is taking the time to check up on the progress. Wouldn't be suprised if Woodson is the one that has the players motivated and hungry and looking to get in great shape during the offseason.

nyny - The fact Woodson is in Houston, taking notes at the Olajuwon Boot Camp, tells us that Woodson is engaged with his players during the off season in ways that Mike 'Antoni NEVER demonstrated.

Is it a coincidence that all three of the Knicks leaders are working their collective butts off over the summer?

Carmelo, Chandler (and Prigioni) are in London. Amar'e is paying his way to work with a hall of famer.

Forget the freakin' playbook. Forget the detailed and persuasive stat work of CashMoney (nice job) for a moment.

Mike Woodson understands the mindset of the contemporary pro player and how to motivate them. He supports them by being clear about his expectations. It is not about strategy or tactics. "You work hard for me, I promise to support you." In the case of Amar'e, Woodson's presence in Houston says, "I will be there for you...I care about what you are doing, no matter where - I'm on a plane to support your efforts."

That is huge.

Many times, it simply distills down to whether the player embraces that a coach is being genuine and fair. When a player trusts the assessment of his head coach, that player will ignore any obstacle to winning.

Good Person. Happy Players.

Excellent!!

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851
Alba Posts: 11
Joined: 1/3/2012
Member: #3806
USA
8/9/2012  9:54 AM
CashMoney wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
CashMoney wrote:The simple truth of the matter is that us Knicks fans tend to have short memories.

We had no illuisons of winning anything in MDA's first 2 years on the job. The plan was to have Walsh clear cap space to set us up for a run at Lebron. His first 2 years on the job were throw away years. We all know that yet MDA haters find it necessary to point to his losing record during that time.

Here comes year 3 and we have STAT playing like a damn superhero for the Knicks to play .500 ball although many here will have memories of a championship caliber team who only started to falter due to trade rumors that were around since the start of the year.

At the start of last season, MDA himself stated that the Knicks had the talent to compete for a championship. This is where things become amusing to me. The Knicks were 6-4 leading up to the Memphis game, 2 games without STAT and TD runnng point. I did a game by game breakdown of the season in another thread so I'm not getting back into that but the Knicks record stood at 8-15 going into the Nets game (Start of Linsanity.) With Melo returning against the Nets, the Knicks record is at 16-16 and they close out the month of February going 2-2 and now have a record of 18-18

The Knicks open of the month of March going 0-6, 2 games without Tyson (Spurs & Bucks) leading up to MDA resignation and Woody taking over against the Blazers. STAT was in beast mode during the losing streak; 19.3 PTS, 8.3 RBDS, 1.1 BLKS, .548 FG%. Melo not so much; 20.5 PTS, 2.3 AST, 6.5 RBDS, .83 STLS, .388 FG%. As Melo is the man, he's going to get the blame...comes with the title. There is no denying that he did not play well. He was still putting up 18 shots a game but was hitting at only 38%.

However, this is what leaves me with a big question mark. Lin during the same 6 game stretch; 16.1 PTS, 7.3 ASTS, 3.8 TO, 2.5 STLS, .390 FG% Melo didn't shoot well but neither did Lin. Another big question mark during that stretch is that STAT is our 2nd best player yet he averaged 13.6 FGA's per game compared to Lin's 14.5 FGA per game. I'm not pointing this out to place blame on Lin!

Against the Celts and Mavs, Melo shoots 10 for 33, Lin shoots 10 for 29 and STAT shoots 17 for 34. Next game Melo goes 12-24, Lin goes 7 for 15 and STAT goes 6 for 12. Why in the hell is Lin taking more shots then STAT? Against the Sixers, Lin took the most shots on the team going 5 for 18. The issue that I have always had with MDA is the equal opporunity BS. You put the ball in your best players hands and have them take a majority of the shots. If STAT is an equal to Melo or our 2nd best player on the team why is he taking less shots per game than Lin? Melo should be taking a majority of the shots with STAT not too far behind.

Woodson had STAT, Melo and Lin for a total of 7 games and the Knicks go 6-1. Than as if by magic Melo become a better player. Hmmmm....interesting.

Melo during that 7 game stretch

14 PTS (6.5 points less)
1.5 STL (.67 more steals)
4.3 AST (2 assist more)
5.4 RBD (1.1 less)
.393 FG% (1.3% better)
13.4 FGA per game (4.6 less attempts per game)
Melo must have quit on Woody as well. He scored less, took less shots, didn't rebound as well as was still shooting less than 40% but become a more team oriented player becuase of the 2 additonal assists per game? Melo new found defensive intensity must not have carried over to hitting the boards either.

LIN
13.2 PTS (2.9 points less)
5.4 AST (1.9 less)
3.71 TO (.09 less)
1 STL (1.5 less)
.428 FG% (3.8% better)
9 FGA per game (5.5 less per game)

STAT
16.8 PTS (2.5 less)
8.1 RBD (.2 less)
1 BLK (same)
.578 FG% (3 % better)
10.8 FGA per game (2.8 less)

Seems to me that Woody made adjustements within the offense with regard to Melo & Lin and fine tuned things a bit with STAT. People can attribute the 6-1 record to the coaching change if they like but that also dismisses the 18-6 record over 36% of the season as well as his 9-4 (.692) record without Lin and without STAT.

Did Woody make MDA look bad? You're damn right he did.

Awesome post. Game, set, match.

"Game, Set, Match"? Really?

So the big point here is that for the 7 games Woody had Lin, STAT and Melo he was 6-1 and it was because of all the changes in strategy that Woody made? REALLY?

Just what changes did Woody make on the very day that MDA resigned and the subsequent 7 games with almost no practice time to make any changes? ESPECIALLY offensive changes! Every statement made by the players and Woody himself expressed that he made next to NO CHANGES in those early days, so what was the real reason for the sudden improvement and on what side of the ball did the bulk of the improvement come? ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE and not the offensive side. In addition they didn't change the defense either!!!

Besides, Woodson said, he barely has any time to tinker with D’Antoni’s offense so for the time being he’ll leave well enough alone, adding his own wrinkles here and there. But when asked if he had anything specifically planned for Anthony in hopes of lifting him out of his offensive funk, Woodson sounded almost defiant.

“I’m not concerned with Melo getting a whole bunch of shots. There’s enough shots for our team and enough good players that can make a difference,” said Woodson. “I’m not taking anything away from Melo. We’re still doing some of the things that Mike D’Antoni put in here. I’d be crazy to change everything right now [because] there’s not enough time in the day to change everything. … But I like [when] the opposing team doesn’t know where it’s going to come from.”

Ultimately, Woodson said, it’s about his specialty and he can only hope that guys continue to buy into his scheme.

“My main concern is defense and rebounding. We’ll figure it out offensively as we go along,” Woodson said.

“I think now we’re playing at a different level, a very high level,” Anthony said. “Guys seem like they’re committed on every possession, taking every possession serious. We want to go into Philly and take on that challenge.”

Said Steve Novak, “If we play defense like this, we can beat anybody.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/new_coach_win_streak_rolls_on_joy_SwhKE5p3VsmxDA5LeW4YtN#ixzz231JB35Od

According to Woodson, the key to the sudden spike in performance has been that all the players have bought in — something that allegedly wasn’t happening behind the scenes during D’Antoni’s reign: “Everyone is starting to buy in. And that’s what winning does. That’s the beauty of 14-15 guys making a commitment. … I just think we’re playing for something again and the energy level has really gone up. We needed that because we were sinking a little bit. It’s been a total team effort on our part and they’re making sure everyone understands our defense assignments. Our offense has even picked up because we’re generating offense through our defense.”

After one memorable week as the Knicks’ interim coach, Mike Woodson would agree — even if Woodson “can’t explain” why Carmelo Anthony had little interest in hustling for Mike D’Antoni but has exerted himself for Woodson during a winning streak that reached five games Wednesday night with a fiercely contested 82-79 win over the 76ers.

Isn’t it obvious why? Anthony has had no choice after using his credibility lifeline to win his war of wills with D’Antoni.

It had to become D’Antoni’s fault that Anthony’s debut in New York, while not lacking in pomp, had precipitated an extraordinary and unflattering set of circumstances. After Anthony introduced himself by firing up jumpers as if Madison Square Garden were Rucker Park, the production of several teammates diminished and the Knicks failed to win a playoff game. About a third of the way through this lockout-shortened season, D’Antoni handed Anthony’s ball to Jeremy Lin.

Could Melo admit that any of the Knicks’ maladroitness was his fault? Not unless he was ready to be accountable for himself as well as for how much his apparent pouting affected the team.

His recent statement — “The last three games, my focus was to have an energy that I haven’t had so far this season” — was really quite amazing, coming from a player making $18.5 million this season, or the eighth-highest salary in the N.B.A. It may also have been the most honest thing he has said since becoming a Knick last season.

Say this for Woodson: He put Anthony’s dereliction of duty in its proper context when he noted that the Knicks “probably wouldn’t be sitting here in this position fighting for the playoffs” if Anthony had not used D’Antoni to shield himself from the pressure of the New York stage. And since Woodson was putatively in charge of the defense when Anthony decided he didn’t have to play any, the immediate turnaround should not solely be a referendum on D’Antoni.

Did Woodson make MDA look bad? Yes...how can you not see this?

Woodson said himself that the a major difference was that ALL PLAYERS bought in. The TEAM WAS SINKING.

This has nothing to do with changing offensive and defensive schemes. Woodson did/does many things that MDA did not. How many times have you seen Woody call a timeout after a 6-0 run and lace into players? Woodson let it be know from the onset that he was holding all players accountable!

It wasn't just Melo who was bringing more energy into the games. The ENITRE TEAM did.

Woodson did say that if Melo played with more energy "probably wouldn’t be sitting here in this position fighting for the playoffs”.... key word being probably. If MDA is not desperate and doesn't play Lin the Knicks PROBABLY don't make the playoffs. If STAT came into the season in better shape and could hit a jumper the Knicks PROBABLY wouldn't be fighting for a playoff spot. If the Knicks don't pick up Novak from waivers the Knicks PROBABLY don't make the playoffs.

Woodson let it be known that Melo and the rest of the team would be held accountable for their play. When did MDA EVER do this? Doesn't this in itself make MDA look bad?

Seriously, you can keep typing away about offensive and defensive schemes not being changed. You can place 100% of the blame on Melo for not playing with a higher energy level from the onset. The bottom line is that the team played MUCH HARDER for Woodson deserves credit for in game adjustments and substitution patterns.

As far as the article itself is concerned.....it's an opinion piece, nothing more. "After Anthony introduced himself by firing up jumpers as if Madison Square Garden were Rucker Park, the production of several teammates diminished and the Knicks failed to win a playoff game." What? Whose production diminished? Is this dude not aware that 4 starters were traded away by the Knicks? No mention that Melo was playing by his damn self after STAT and Billups went down with injuries.

I nominate Cashmoney UK Poster of the Month!

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
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Member: #582
8/9/2012  11:12 AM
The only time Woody actually starting playing more to his style was when we got to the playoffs, he had a few days off to practice and guys were getting more and more familiar..But thats when melo ball really unfolded...ppl want to say melo was playing selfish, but it was woody who said, were going to run more ISO's for amare and melo. especially melo..Now all of a sudden, melo a selfish player because everytime down court, the coach is calling his number..

With MDA, he wanted to run the offense through melo for sure, but instead of just going 1 on 5, he was suppose to look for his teamates first and if no ones open, then it's on him, just like a nash or Lin..

I remember distinctively right before the season started, MDA said (on more then one occasion) MELO should avg close to a triple double with his abilty to pass, shoot and rebound, and for one game this season he did just that..

Woody on the other hand wants to ISO melo to death, and when that fails, ppl want to say melo is selfish...SMH

ES
misterearl
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Member: #799
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8/9/2012  11:27 AM
Really?

knicks1248 wrote:
Woody on the other hand wants to ISO melo to death, and when that fails, ppl want to say melo is selfish...SMH

knicks1248 - ISO Melo to death? Is that all you got?

...please, give it a rest. Do you think that Mike Woodson is more interested in placating Carmelo Anthony or winning basketball games?

You are projecting your own fears on to another person and it is not a favorable, or valid, point of view - unless you have some factorial evidence.

You also seem to be stuck on the the offense led by the aimless Toney Douglas, the beechwood aged Mike Bibby and the earthly remains of Baron Davis... with Carmelo asked to handle the ball by D'Antoni to play "point forward."

Nah, let's cast Ray Felton, Jason Kidd and Pablo Prigioni as personal caddies for number 7.

once a knick always a knick
That damn woodson has got it made, did he really make MDA look bad

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