There are ingredients present to run a very effective offense and have a strong defense. Will it work? Is Woodson the right coach? We'll see. Is it enough to beat the Heat or the Celtics? Eh. I hope so, but I think a lot of that will ride on Melo finally developing some chemistry with Amar'e. That's what this team boils down to now. Hopefully Kidd and Felton can help that process. We shall see.

I miss Gallo and Lin - very talented players who had almost no selfish ego or agenda. Same with Donnie and MDA. Those types never seem to last very long in the Garden. Oh well. It is what it is.

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Amare is NOT a post player - Malone was and he was a damn good one.

I did not say Amare can't bounce back, I just don't have confidence that he will just like many GM's and insurance companies felt/feel. You don't see the lack of explosiveness? The shots getting block at an alarming rate? THE MISSED JUMPERS (which I don't get)? I HOPE HE DOES and proves me wrong but I have low expectations - we will see ...

"fishmike hates Melo" - almost a third person reference which is a big No NO :-)

Again, the knicks have to ride Amare if he is healthy - certainly if they want to win but Chandler and him have to click too. Who is the PnR guy? Last year it was more Tyson than Amare.

Kobe always took the most shots on the Lakers even with the HOFers. Its not about the shots necessarily but the sharing - like I mentioned, if he average 1 more assist a game that would be great.

Woody needs to figure out a flow for this team and I am not sold that he can.

he's not a post player, in the back to the basket half court sense, but he's a CLOSE player. He scores in the paint.

what I saw from last year? A guy who couldnt get it going. He was rusty coming in and his once money jumper wasnt falling at all, but no.. I didnt see the lack of explosiveness.

So much is perception... he wasnt blocked more last year than any other
last year 9% of his FGA were blocked
2011 8% FGAs blocked
2010 8% FGAs blocked
2009 8% FGAs blocked
2008 6% FGAs blocked (thats as farback as 82games goes)

He's a prideful guy and will come back. Backs are always a concern but bulging disk isnt hernieated and thats huge. Also when Amare came back his FG% was fantastic, he just didnt get shots and Melo had it going which was fine.

Without a healthy productive Amare this team isnt much better than the one and done Nuggets teams built around Melo. Maybe if Woody gets them defending like the Bulls or Phili its possible, but ATL wasnt exactly a defensive force so we will see.

Dont turn this into anti Melo. Like you said... supporting cast. Melo isnt Lebron or an MVP, we need all star play from our max PF AND our MAX SF. All I propose is putting them where it will translate into the most wins. Thats Amare first and Melo 2nd. <<< Im not talking shot totals.. Im talking where the offense starts.

Good point about the blocks - perception is a big part of it. Maybe because many of those shots were blocked by guards.

I do find it interesting how people have their alliances - you giving Amare a pass all the time while to kill Melo (which is your right) is just funny and unbalanced.

Take Bonn - at least he kills both.

Amare loafs on defense and Melo quits on coach - End of Story :-)

If our offense runs through Amare outside of PnR's, I think we are royally screwed. Unless by some miracle Hakeem taught him a bit of how to be effective in the post (not likely).

You either need a top post player or a top PG to win with players like Kobe, PP and Melo.

2nd round exit - at least its better than a first round exit. Who knows ... maybe wade busts a knee or something - anything can happen.

Blame a player from today until tomorrow - teams dont usually win without multiple HOFers - Shaq/Kobe, Duncan/Parker/Ginobli, Jordan/Pippen/Rodman, Lebron/Wade/(Bosh)

Exceptions were Detroit and Dallas - but these are very rare exceptions and Dirk played like a crazy freak

Also the Knicks were terrible. Amare (yes I know we paid him) was willing to come here as FA when EVERY OTHER FA just used NY to get a better contract. He was the first.

Lets talk about what Amare added that year. We were a lottery team. In comes Amare and we are a playoff team. We also had BIG wins against elite teams that year so the Knicks were really making progres. Amare led the NBA in 4th qtr scoring. Amare was LEADING the young guys to wins that were not there in recent years. Yes, he broke down late (more bad timeing than anything else) and that really hurt. So my initial impression of Amare is positive.

We had one of the youngest teams in the NBA, with max cap space next offseason and things were good. Then Melo comes, forces a $20mm per extension and we cash out all our chips for Melo, a guy who hadnt won anything and had issues. We didnt get any better. A year later he kills Linsanity. We didnt win anymore games so my initial impression of Melo WAS NOT positive. The knocks on Melo (selfish, baby, pouts when doesnt get his way, fights with coach, not a standup guy) all followed him here. Painfully. Im waiting to be won over.

Its that simple man.

fishmike wrote:why do you think I give Amare a pass? He had a crap year last year. Why do I give Melo more crap then him? I do think quitting on a coach (and your team) is the most indefensible thing in sports, and Melo did that. Thats my biggest knock on him here as a Knick.

Also the Knicks were terrible. Amare (yes I know we paid him) was willing to come here as FA when EVERY OTHER FA just used NY to get a better contract. He was the first.

Lets talk about what Amare added that year. We were a lottery team. In comes Amare and we are a playoff team. We also had BIG wins against elite teams that year so the Knicks were really making progres. Amare led the NBA in 4th qtr scoring. Amare was LEADING the young guys to wins that were not there in recent years. Yes, he broke down late (more bad timeing than anything else) and that really hurt. So my initial impression of Amare is positive.

We had one of the youngest teams in the NBA, with max cap space next offseason and things were good. Then Melo comes, forces a $20mm per extension and we cash out all our chips for Melo, a guy who hadnt won anything and had issues. We didnt get any better. A year later he kills Linsanity. We didnt win anymore games so my initial impression of Melo WAS NOT positive. The knocks on Melo (selfish, baby, pouts when doesnt get his way, fights with coach, not a standup guy) all followed him here. Painfully. Im waiting to be won over.

Its that simple man.

Bang - thats exactly it. THE COACH! You loved MDA, Amare was in the alliance, Melo was not - hence the one sided hate.

Melo quit on his coach? How do you know cause he said that they are working much harder for Woody? Duh!

Amare quit on his coach every play on the defensive end, did you not watch all those cordial invitations to the rim for the opposing team? They are still all over youtube if you care to take an excursion.

Amare did not do the knicks a favor by coming here, they did him a favor. Who else wanted him? Nobody! Not for that kind of cash. And even without giving up "our whole team" or even anyone, nobody wanted him. So were now the smart franchise and all others are the dumb ones?

Who wanted Melo? Who doesn't.

I will not forget how SVG said "enough about Dwight, how the hell are we gonna stop Carmello Anthony?" not "how are we going to stop Amare"

If you like the Melo trade or not, he did not make that trade, unless like the Lin situation, you or other perceive him as Denvers and our de facto GM.

I think the displaced bias in a large part comes down to the beloved MDA. That is your right but I don't necessarily agree.

Jmpasq wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:grillco... featuring a player who scores at 47% for his career and building around that STAR is bad faulty logic. Thats league average. That was Denver's logic and it failed year after year after year. What you fail to see is Melo's teams didnt get knocked out, they didnt even compete.

So when you choose to build around one guy at all costs yea... you can look at that individual's game and realize he's best suited to be AT BEST the 2nd or 3rd option on the team.

I posted a list of all the guys who have averaged 20ppg for a year on 50% shooting or higher. In the last 10 years its been done 40 times (Amare did it 6 times). Of those 40 times only 3 times did it happen to a player on a losing team (Al Jefferson and David Lee x2). The point is simple... high eff% scoring = winning basketball.

Building around a 47% guy isnt getting it done, and thats why teams built around him dont succeed in the playoffs.

My hope was to see Melo come the finisher. Like a Pierce... Melo can have the ball in his hands at the end of games. Thats a good thing. The guy can play, but he's not a franchise or top 10 guy.

Kobe - .453 career - Top 10 player of all time - CASE CLOSED

Oh sorry - forgot to mention paul pierce (the finisher) - .448 career!!

EDIT: THE GREAT GALLO - .420!! THATS AWESOME!

did you just compare Melo to Kobe? Wow! Even tho both are good players, only one got 5 rings and plays excellent D,

Melo isnt as good as Kobe but to act like Melo ever had a team anywhere near as good as the Lakers is ridiclous

Direct quote from Melo:
Anthony said over the last three games, his focus “was to have an energy that I haven’t had so far this season.”

“Especially on the defensive end,” Anthony said. “Everybody on this team knows, everybody in the world knows I can score the basketball. It’s not that important to me. As far as on the defensive end, just showing my teammates that the effort is there, giving that extra effort. And as a result, everybody’s been feeding off of that.”

Spin it how you want dude. Melo stopped playing.

My "love" for the coach was too see what a guy who is regarded as gifted offensive coach could do with two of the best scoring forwards in the league. Whats sad and pathetic is Melo opted to quit rather than fit into the system and give it a try.

Few things are more overrated than NBA coaches. Its players players players

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:why do you think I give Amare a pass? He had a crap year last year. Why do I give Melo more crap then him? I do think quitting on a coach (and your team) is the most indefensible thing in sports, and Melo did that. Thats my biggest knock on him here as a Knick.

Also the Knicks were terrible. Amare (yes I know we paid him) was willing to come here as FA when EVERY OTHER FA just used NY to get a better contract. He was the first.

Lets talk about what Amare added that year. We were a lottery team. In comes Amare and we are a playoff team. We also had BIG wins against elite teams that year so the Knicks were really making progres. Amare led the NBA in 4th qtr scoring. Amare was LEADING the young guys to wins that were not there in recent years. Yes, he broke down late (more bad timeing than anything else) and that really hurt. So my initial impression of Amare is positive.

We had one of the youngest teams in the NBA, with max cap space next offseason and things were good. Then Melo comes, forces a $20mm per extension and we cash out all our chips for Melo, a guy who hadnt won anything and had issues. We didnt get any better. A year later he kills Linsanity. We didnt win anymore games so my initial impression of Melo WAS NOT positive. The knocks on Melo (selfish, baby, pouts when doesnt get his way, fights with coach, not a standup guy) all followed him here. Painfully. Im waiting to be won over.

Its that simple man.

Bang - thats exactly it. THE COACH! You loved MDA, Amare was in the alliance, Melo was not - hence the one sided hate.

Melo quit on his coach? How do you know cause he said that they are working much harder for Woody? Duh!

Amare quit on his coach every play on the defensive end, did you not watch all those cordial invitations to the rim for the opposing team? They are still all over youtube if you care to take an excursion.

Amare did not do the knicks a favor by coming here, they did him a favor. Who else wanted him? Nobody! Not for that kind of cash. And even without giving up "our whole team" or even anyone, nobody wanted him. So were now the smart franchise and all others are the dumb ones?

Who wanted Melo? Who doesn't.

I will not forget how SVG said "enough about Dwight, how the hell are we gonna stop Carmello Anthony?" not "how are we going to stop Amare"

If you like the Melo trade or not, he did not make that trade, unless like the Lin situation, you or other perceive him as Denvers and our de facto GM.

I think the displaced bias in a large part comes down to the beloved MDA. That is your right but I don't necessarily agree.

Amere was a canidate for league MVP before the trade. You build around that, not blow it up!

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:grillco... featuring a player who scores at 47% for his career and building around that STAR is bad faulty logic. Thats league average. That was Denver's logic and it failed year after year after year. What you fail to see is Melo's teams didnt get knocked out, they didnt even compete.

So when you choose to build around one guy at all costs yea... you can look at that individual's game and realize he's best suited to be AT BEST the 2nd or 3rd option on the team.

I posted a list of all the guys who have averaged 20ppg for a year on 50% shooting or higher. In the last 10 years its been done 40 times (Amare did it 6 times). Of those 40 times only 3 times did it happen to a player on a losing team (Al Jefferson and David Lee x2). The point is simple... high eff% scoring = winning basketball.

Building around a 47% guy isnt getting it done, and thats why teams built around him dont succeed in the playoffs.

My hope was to see Melo come the finisher. Like a Pierce... Melo can have the ball in his hands at the end of games. Thats a good thing. The guy can play, but he's not a franchise or top 10 guy.

Kobe - .453 career - Top 10 player of all time - CASE CLOSED

Oh sorry - forgot to mention paul pierce (the finisher) - .448 career!!

EDIT: THE GREAT GALLO - .420!! THATS AWESOME!

did you just compare Melo to Kobe? Wow! Even tho both are good players, only one got 5 rings and plays excellent D,

Melo isnt as good as Kobe but to act like Melo ever had a team anywhere near as good as the Lakers is ridiclous

Melo had good teams, he just don't play team basketball which equates to all his early exits.

Really? What teams were the "good" teams? And, how did those teams compare (in talent) to the teams that beat them?

How about the team he was on last year?? That team was pretty good if he had just brought in to the system. But he wanted the team to run HIS system..... Early exit!

ah ... right. 18-6 with his system - puke

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:why do you think I give Amare a pass? He had a crap year last year. Why do I give Melo more crap then him? I do think quitting on a coach (and your team) is the most indefensible thing in sports, and Melo did that. Thats my biggest knock on him here as a Knick.

Also the Knicks were terrible. Amare (yes I know we paid him) was willing to come here as FA when EVERY OTHER FA just used NY to get a better contract. He was the first.

Lets talk about what Amare added that year. We were a lottery team. In comes Amare and we are a playoff team. We also had BIG wins against elite teams that year so the Knicks were really making progres. Amare led the NBA in 4th qtr scoring. Amare was LEADING the young guys to wins that were not there in recent years. Yes, he broke down late (more bad timeing than anything else) and that really hurt. So my initial impression of Amare is positive.

We had one of the youngest teams in the NBA, with max cap space next offseason and things were good. Then Melo comes, forces a $20mm per extension and we cash out all our chips for Melo, a guy who hadnt won anything and had issues. We didnt get any better. A year later he kills Linsanity. We didnt win anymore games so my initial impression of Melo WAS NOT positive. The knocks on Melo (selfish, baby, pouts when doesnt get his way, fights with coach, not a standup guy) all followed him here. Painfully. Im waiting to be won over.

Its that simple man.

Bang - thats exactly it. THE COACH! You loved MDA, Amare was in the alliance, Melo was not - hence the one sided hate.

Melo quit on his coach? How do you know cause he said that they are working much harder for Woody? Duh!

Amare quit on his coach every play on the defensive end, did you not watch all those cordial invitations to the rim for the opposing team? They are still all over youtube if you care to take an excursion.

Amare did not do the knicks a favor by coming here, they did him a favor. Who else wanted him? Nobody! Not for that kind of cash. And even without giving up "our whole team" or even anyone, nobody wanted him. So were now the smart franchise and all others are the dumb ones?

Who wanted Melo? Who doesn't.

I will not forget how SVG said "enough about Dwight, how the hell are we gonna stop Carmello Anthony?" not "how are we going to stop Amare"

If you like the Melo trade or not, he did not make that trade, unless like the Lin situation, you or other perceive him as Denvers and our de facto GM.

I think the displaced bias in a large part comes down to the beloved MDA. That is your right but I don't necessarily agree.

Amere was a canidate for league MVP before the trade. You build around that, not blow it up!

That team and Amare was in decline - but that does not mean I agreed with "blowing up" the team. I am not sold either way on that (yet)