misterearl wrote:It Ain't My Money

In 3 years, basically every player on the Knicks will be coming off the books. So before anyone talks about the Knicks overpaying for a player, just remember that it only changes how much extra cash James Dolan has. Once a team already has no flexibility, it doesn’t matter how much a team pays for a player, as long as the owner is willing to pay.

A lot of the time, fans look at a player by his contract when they should be looking at how the player helps their team. Knicks fans are in a situation where they don’t have to worry about their owner being afraid to pay players. In this regard, the Knicks off season had given them players who can play a role and give them even more flexibility. Is that really overpaying? Are the Knicks really overpaying for Lin? No, because the amount that the Knicks are paying Lin is worth not having the point guard debacle that they had last season.

- Billy Mansmann

Any Questions?

The man plays fantasy basketball. It is so easy to say "it ain't my money" because it isn't our money. If I am Dolan there is no way I am paying that much for a backup 3 (or a backup to the backup-remember Novak?)

Pros: Landry led the team in plus/minus. He rebounds extremely well for his size/position. His shooting in his rookie year was far better than his sophomore year and will probably settle somewhere in between those two extremes. He's a well-liked team player. He can fill the gaping hole we have at SG until Shump returns.

Cons: Landry doesn't seem to fit with the Melo-Knicks. He thrived in D'Antoni's spread offense and found seams to the basket while there were a lot of shooters on the floor. With more post players on the floor, Landry is forced to camp outside and hoist 3s. Not his game. Landry's defense against opposing SGs like Ray Allen has been exposed as horrible and is a known weakness in our D (the other major one being Amar'e).

I like Landry. Not sure he fits. It's a lot of money to gamble that he might improve. One thing to consider - the guaranteed money in the Landry deal over three years is pretty much equal to the guaranteed money going to Kidd and Camby the next 3yrs.

Allanfan20 wrote:Markji, you are bringing an unfair arguement. First off, how often have you seen him to make a statement about his transition defense, when he's been playing in Europe?

2) If you are going to use the Euroleague stats, then fair has to be fair and we can use Fields college stats.... especially during his last year when he was the main man and he was the man defenses planned around. While he shot 34% from 3, he still shot about 50% from the field and then in his first year in the NBA he shot 50% from the field and 39% from a longer range 3. After that, the lockout occured and he tried improving his shot even more and somewhere along the line, he either got bad advice from someone or himself on how to do that exactly, and he came back with a bad form. So he shot like crap from 3 last season yet still managed to shoot 46% overall? That's pretty outstanding considering he shot so bad from 3 and he was a second year SG.

The guy is going to improve his shot. If he doesn't I will gladly eat my crow, but after his first year and the fact that he has a strong work ethic, and he's smart, I have no doubt he will come back with a much improved shot.

With that said, I'd like to see him get back to where he should be when it comes to rebounding and also see him man up in the playoffs. Otherwise, I feel we need to match this guy. He's a real good player.

Chris Copeland shot 44% from 3 pt last year and scored 21.3 ppg. Below are James White stats from last year. Both are 28 yrs old and have matured since their college days. Fields will cost the Knicks about $38 million with the penalty. And if he doesn't have a good year, he will be very hard to move. If White or Copeland don't have a good year, they are gone and their roster place can be filled.

James White Stats - 2011 - 2012 Italian League SG/SF 6'7" 205lbs
GP Min Pts FGm FGA FG% 2Pt 2PtA 2P% 3Pt 3PtA 3P% FTM FTA FT% OffReb Def TOT Ast St Blks TO PF
32 33.4 17.2 6.1 11.6 52.4 5.2 8.8 59.1 0.9 2.8 31.5 4.2 5.7 73.5 0.8 3.7 4.5 2.8 1.3 0.3 2.8 3.1

Chris Copeland 2011-2012 Belgium League 6'8 225 lbs
G MPG FG% 3PT% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG TO PPG
45 32.8 .535 44 80.0 5.13 2.24 0.67 0.44 3.0 21.3

gunsnewing wrote:"It ain't me money" BUT its a waste of a roster spot

Assuming we don't match who do you want to see take that spot? I guess I don't HATE the idea of shuffling D-League guys in and out on 10 day contracts and see who fits. The only thing that sucks is if any of those guys play well we'll lose them the next season unless they stay for vet min.

Whereas if Fields improves..we already got him locked up.

Markji wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:Markji, you are bringing an unfair arguement. First off, how often have you seen him to make a statement about his transition defense, when he's been playing in Europe?

2) If you are going to use the Euroleague stats, then fair has to be fair and we can use Fields college stats.... especially during his last year when he was the main man and he was the man defenses planned around. While he shot 34% from 3, he still shot about 50% from the field and then in his first year in the NBA he shot 50% from the field and 39% from a longer range 3. After that, the lockout occured and he tried improving his shot even more and somewhere along the line, he either got bad advice from someone or himself on how to do that exactly, and he came back with a bad form. So he shot like crap from 3 last season yet still managed to shoot 46% overall? That's pretty outstanding considering he shot so bad from 3 and he was a second year SG.

The guy is going to improve his shot. If he doesn't I will gladly eat my crow, but after his first year and the fact that he has a strong work ethic, and he's smart, I have no doubt he will come back with a much improved shot.

With that said, I'd like to see him get back to where he should be when it comes to rebounding and also see him man up in the playoffs. Otherwise, I feel we need to match this guy. He's a real good player.

Firstly, I do like Fields both as a player and a person. He has a positive influence, is a team player, and has a high BB IQ. He had a great first year and I also think he will improve over last year. My point isn't to knock Landry. My point is that Fields is replaceable at a much lower price. And that is what Grunwald is trying to do with signing James White and Chris Copeland, and even Prigioni. (so Lin can at times play with Kidd in the first unit and the SG position will be covered).

Chris Copeland shot 44% from 3 pt last year and scored 21.3 ppg. Below are James White stats from last year. Both are 28 yrs old and have matured since their college days. Fields will cost the Knicks about $38 million with the penalty. And if he doesn't have a good year, he will be very hard to move. If White or Copeland don't have a good year, they are gone and their roster place can be filled.

James White Stats - 2011 - 2012 Italian League SG/SF 6'7" 205lbs
GP Min Pts FGm FGA FG% 2Pt 2PtA 2P% 3Pt 3PtA 3P% FTM FTA FT% OffReb Def TOT Ast St Blks TO PF
32 33.4 17.2 6.1 11.6 52.4 5.2 8.8 59.1 0.9 2.8 31.5 4.2 5.7 73.5 0.8 3.7 4.5 2.8 1.3 0.3 2.8 3.1

Chris Copeland 2011-2012 Belgium League 6'8 225 lbs
G MPG FG% 3PT% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG TO PPG
45 32.8 .535 44 80.0 5.13 2.24 0.67 0.44 3.0 21.3

I don't understand why people here are so concerned about his pricetag. Is this your money we are talking about? Does it have any impact on the salary cap for the entire duration of the contract? Answer to both questions is "no" so your concern with him should be strickly basketball. If we can find a player better than him for the minimum salary, fine, but if not we should want the team to resign him regardless of price. His contract no matter how expensive, fits the 3-year plan.

Mray20 wrote:

VDesai wrote:I don't like the premise of this idea. Take a potential problem and compound it? What if we need more flexibility? Fields contract could be unmoveable like Shandon Anderson's. We don't want that. Remember, Shandon Anderson was a valued role player before he got his contract. After his contract he was one of the most overpaid scrubs in the NBA.

+1 He was a disgrace in a Knick uniform as was his sidekick Howard Eisley

Voices of reason. I don't buy the logic of adding a bad contract just because the team -- as *currently* constructed is over the cap.
At any time, someone on the team with a big contract could be traded for who-knows-what, shorter or smaller contracts, with some purpose.
Why handicap yourself with the bad contract of Fields at that point? That was the mentality that snowballed into the Isaiah era, that took years to unwind. For me, unless someone is the final piece for a championship, you keep your roster with players that are worth their contracts so you continue to have the flexibility to make moves you need to improve year after year.

This was the same mentality that landed us Jared Jeffries at the full MLE and we had to sacrifice a first round pick to get out of the last year of the contract so we could make the move we wanted to make. People never learn their lessons.

Bonn1997 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

misterearl wrote:It Ain't My Money

In 3 years, basically every player on the Knicks will be coming off the books. So before anyone talks about the Knicks overpaying for a player, just remember that it only changes how much extra cash James Dolan has. Once a team already has no flexibility, it doesn’t matter how much a team pays for a player, as long as the owner is willing to pay.

A lot of the time, fans look at a player by his contract when they should be looking at how the player helps their team. Knicks fans are in a situation where they don’t have to worry about their owner being afraid to pay players. In this regard, the Knicks off season had given them players who can play a role and give them even more flexibility. Is that really overpaying? Are the Knicks really overpaying for Lin? No, because the amount that the Knicks are paying Lin is worth not having the point guard debacle that they had last season.

- Billy Mansmann

Any Questions?

The man plays fantasy basketball. It is so easy to say "it ain't my money" because it isn't our money. If I am Dolan there is no way I am paying that much for a backup 3 (or a backup to the backup-remember Novak?)

There are two separate issues here: will Fields bring in more money than he's paid and will he help the team win more games than a player we can instead get for the vet min? Dolan's the only person who should be concerned with the first question. From what I've read, very few players (really just the superstars and very good players on rookie contracts) actually bring in more money than they're paid.

I'm really not thrilled with the idea of bringing in Fields just so we can possibly trade his expiring contract down the line.Chances are just as good that we won't be able to trade him and we'll be stuck with an overpaid bench player. It's thinking like this that gets guys like Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson bad contracts and whiny small market teams complaining that they need a larger cut of the BRI.

"Like Landry Fields and Jeremy Lin, those are two good young players we hope to bring back here. But we'll make that determination when we need to make that determination, and now is not that time."

MaTT4281 wrote:Watching the Camby/Kidd press conference from today. Not really indicative as to what they'll do, but definitely found it interesting when answering a question about Lin's offer sheet from Houston, Grunwald included Landry's name.

"Like Landry Fields and Jeremy Lin, those are two good young players we hope to bring back here. But we'll make that determination when we need to make that determination, and now is not that time."

Sounds good.