mrKnickShot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Superstars don't "Need" point guards.

Superstars are complete. They win championships.

Who did Hakeem have? Sam the Alien? Kenny the Jet? Nice players but no not great.

They won so they are elevated.

Elevated by a superstar.

Lebron has been to the finals twice without a "Need" point.

All I keep reading about is how Amare or Carmelo "Need" this and "Need" that to be effective.

Same for years with Ewing.

Superstars make those around them better.

Allstars have needs.

StarMelo is an allstar. Nothing wrong with that.

1994 was an abberation. Jordan retired and the league was down a bit. Hakeem had no-one but neither did Ewing. Hakeem was the better player so he won.

Lebron went to the finals with Cleve but didn't win. If he wins this year its because he had Wade (who already won a 'chip' not to mention a top 7 player in the league) by his side.

Superstars need really good players around them. Kobe had Shaq, Jordan had Pippen, Pierce had KG, etc. Whether you consider Melo and allstar or superstar, he needs one or the other to play alongside of him. Stat is a shell of his former allstar self so he shouldn't be considered.

Otis Thorpe
Robert Horry!
Sam Cassel
Kenny Smith
Mario Elie

They had 7 guys who averaged 9+ per game.

Houston had really good team players that were built around Hakeem passing out of the double team (which Ewing was never good at). They were also a very strong defensive team.

Hakeem was the greatest center of our generation. I have him 3rd all time(Kareem and Wilt ahead of him) and slightly ahead of Shaq because he simply dominated Shaq head to head. Hakeem in his prime was sublime, a true center with guard skills as well. Simply incredible.

Why would you say that Wilt was better? Hard to compare based on the size differential with him and the rest of the league. I am not even sure about Kareem.

Hard to compare players in different times. Numbers wise those guys were far better!

Hakeem is certainly the best in my time since I only got to see kareem later in his career.

What about my boy Dirk, he didn't need Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Pippen, Pierce or KG in order to win a championship last year. And while Jason Kidd is a hall of famer, he hasn't being a super star in god knows how long.

ChuckBuck wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Yeah - it was probably those 20,000 women that kept him fit

Kareem was 225 - shaq was 325-360 - I would love to see them face each other.

I heard Wilt made it through because he slept with so many women his HIV got HIV.

ChuckBuck wrote:

What about my boy Dirk, he didn't need Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Pippen, Pierce or KG in order to win a championship last year. And while Jason Kidd is a hall of famer, he hasn't being a super star in god knows how long.

Perfect storm of role players like how Hakeem's '94 Rockets were setup:

MVP Playoff Run - Dirk Nowitzki
Defensive Anchor - Tyson Chandler
Defensive wings - Shawn Marion and Deshawn Stevenson
Scoring Sidekicks - Jason Terry and JJ Barea
Heady Veteran Point Guard - Jason Kidd

That is what I call a "team" like Detroit. And Shawn Marion is so underestimated in every way. Also, you forgot Caron Butler - also extremely underrated.

ChuckBuck wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

What about my boy Dirk, he didn't need Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Pippen, Pierce or KG in order to win a championship last year. And while Jason Kidd is a hall of famer, he hasn't being a super star in god knows how long.

Perfect storm of role players like how Hakeem's '94 Rockets were setup:

MVP Playoff Run - Dirk Nowitzki
Defensive Anchor - Tyson Chandler
Defensive wings - Shawn Marion and Deshawn Stevenson
Scoring Sidekicks - Jason Terry and JJ Barea
Heady Veteran Point Guard - Jason Kidd

That is what I call a "team" like Detroit. And Shawn Marion is so underestimated in every way. Also, you forgot Caron Butler - also extremely underrated.

Yea I would've put Butler if he hadn't missed the playoff run.

Yeah - but he was excellent for them the year before. Is he out again this year?

ChuckBuck wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

What about my boy Dirk, he didn't need Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Pippen, Pierce or KG in order to win a championship last year. And while Jason Kidd is a hall of famer, he hasn't being a super star in god knows how long.

Perfect storm of role players like how Hakeem's '94 Rockets were setup:

MVP Playoff Run - Dirk Nowitzki
Defensive Anchor - Tyson Chandler
Defensive wings - Shawn Marion and Deshawn Stevenson
Scoring Sidekicks - Jason Terry and JJ Barea
Heady Veteran Point Guard - Jason Kidd

That is what I call a "team" like Detroit. And Shawn Marion is so underestimated in every way. Also, you forgot Caron Butler - also extremely underrated.

Yea I would've put Butler if he hadn't missed the playoff run.

Yeah - but he was excellent for them the year before. Is he out again this year?

Thought he's playing for the Clippers? He currently has a broken hand, so Randy Foye, Bobby Simmons, and Nick Young are picking up the slack.

Yeah - I saw the hand injury. Was not sure if he is done - if he is, that is a big loss for the clippers.

Nalod wrote:
Melo has a chance to be a superstar by making those around him better and making a championship run.

To argue otherwise is to only project a theory.

Nash never made it to the finals but got two MVP's trying. MVP's make those around them better.

StarMelo in his career does not have this reputation.

All Stars who rose up to the challange and won MVP and rings are superstars.

Amare is and never has been a superstar.

Ok Nalod - he is not a superstar. Who cares?

Are we better with him or worse with him? Better before the trade or better after the trade? All wonderful questions.

Lets all agree that he does not crack the top 10 and then everyone is satisfied.

Lets also hope that he can help us in the future be better not worse.

Lets also hope that we have a coach and players that can make him better as well.

I know we gave up "half our team" for him and we gave up 30 1st round draft picks for him.

Great! Now what?

Nalod wrote:
I think fans on forums over rate Jorts.

Coach goes with the players he thinks can play best.

I don't dislike Jorts but I don't think he is as good as some think.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Melo has a chance to be a superstar by making those around him better and making a championship run.

To argue otherwise is to only project a theory.

Nash never made it to the finals but got two MVP's trying. MVP's make those around them better.

StarMelo in his career does not have this reputation.

All Stars who rose up to the challange and won MVP and rings are superstars.

Amare is and never has been a superstar.

Ok Nalod - he is not a superstar. Who cares?

Are we better with him or worse with him? Better before the trade or better after the trade? All wonderful questions.

Lets all agree that he does not crack the top 10 and then everyone is satisfied.

Lets also hope that he can help us in the future be better not worse.

Lets also hope that we have a coach and players that can make him better as well.

I know we gave up "half our team" for him and we gave up 30 1st round draft picks for him.

Great! Now what?

We have gone 43-46 in games Melo has played in as a Knick. This might not be a good time for anyone supporting the trade to ask those questions!

Thats a glass half empty view. I look at it as 18-8 under woodson. And who knows how much better it could be with PJax.

I know you love this topic but I don't care if it was a good trade or not - I've said many times that I will make that distinction 3 years after the trade was consummated but you probably can't wait that long since this is the perfect storm for you platform.

Enjoy it!