holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:on a side note I have to agree w/ Holfresh that calling Amare done is off the charts silly. Sure... I would prefer to trade him for Blake Griffen as well, but he's not a cap killer. We are already maxed out so it really doesnt matter.

Did you watch Amare play the other night vs. the Hawks? Thats done? Wow... ok

Not a cap killer? His salary takes up space that could have been used to re-sign Novak, Baron, JR Smith, Fields, and Lin.

All of which are replaceable ..Wow..Fish read my post?

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:on a side note I have to agree w/ Holfresh that calling Amare done is off the charts silly. Sure... I would prefer to trade him for Blake Griffen as well, but he's not a cap killer. We are already maxed out so it really doesnt matter.

Did you watch Amare play the other night vs. the Hawks? Thats done? Wow... ok

Not a cap killer? His salary takes up space that could have been used to re-sign Novak, Baron, JR Smith, Fields, and Lin.

There have been a dozen threads about how the Knicks can keep Fields, Lin and Baron. Are you paying attention at all?

And the flip side is that you would rather have Novak and JR Smith than Amare, which is kind of silly/stupid, no?

There have been far more threads and articles saying the exact opposite.
If you think I'm alone in preferring not to have Amare's big uninsured contract, you are not paying attention.

loweyecue wrote:Amare was signed many moons ago, who knows what would have gone down if we hadn't made that move.
You can't argue "this team" would have been better because " this team" would not have come together the way it did. The Knicks would have had more flexibility but the roster may have looked very different. Melo was ready to go to NJ, so I do think he would have come here with or without Amare, as long as he got his money and we had enough room to sign another max player.

But it's still hard to predict. My gripe with the signing has always been that we gave him too much money. If we had offered Amare a 5 yer 75M deal ( guaranted) he would have taken that because he was out to get guaranteed 5 years and no other team was ready to do that.

That would have given us roughly 5M a year to play with and is enough money to get couple of decent bench guys.

To ignore out the impact Amare's signing had on the reshaping of this franchise is utter folly.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:on a side note I have to agree w/ Holfresh that calling Amare done is off the charts silly. Sure... I would prefer to trade him for Blake Griffen as well, but he's not a cap killer. We are already maxed out so it really doesnt matter.

Did you watch Amare play the other night vs. the Hawks? Thats done? Wow... ok

Not a cap killer? His salary takes up space that could have been used to re-sign Novak, Baron, JR Smith, Fields, and Lin.

There have been a dozen threads about how the Knicks can keep Fields, Lin and Baron. Are you paying attention at all?

And the flip side is that you would rather have Novak and JR Smith than Amare, which is kind of silly/stupid, no?

There have been far more threads and articles saying the exact opposite.
If you think I'm alone in preferring not to have Amare's big uninsured contract, you are not paying attention.

Alternatively, without Amare, the team would have room to acquire a legit max-contract player.

without Melo and Chandler we could aquire 3.... Alternatively.

From Wikipedia:

Hindsight, also known as the knew-it-all-along effect or creeping determinism, is the inclination to see events that have already occurred as being more predictable than they were before they took place.[1] It is a multifaceted phenomenon that can affect different stages of designs, processes, contexts, and situations.[2] Hindsight bias may cause memory distortion, where the recollection and reconstruction of content can lead to false theoretical outcomes.

Amare is not a cap killer. Please.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:on a side note I have to agree w/ Holfresh that calling Amare done is off the charts silly. Sure... I would prefer to trade him for Blake Griffen as well, but he's not a cap killer. We are already maxed out so it really doesnt matter.

Did you watch Amare play the other night vs. the Hawks? Thats done? Wow... ok

Not a cap killer? His salary takes up space that could have been used to re-sign Novak, Baron, JR Smith, Fields, and Lin.

There have been a dozen threads about how the Knicks can keep Fields, Lin and Baron. Are you paying attention at all?

And the flip side is that you would rather have Novak and JR Smith than Amare, which is kind of silly/stupid, no?

There have been far more threads and articles saying the exact opposite.
If you think I'm alone in preferring not to have Amare's big uninsured contract, you are not paying attention.

Alternatively, without Amare, the team would have room to acquire a legit max-contract player.

without Melo and Chandler we could aquire 3.... Alternatively.

Love how we all play GM after the fact. Amare was a good sign at the time. Do we all wish the contract was insured, sure. But we got under the cap, struck out on Plan A and went after Plan B.

From Wikipedia:

Hindsight, also known as the knew-it-all-along effect or creeping determinism, is the inclination to see events that have already occurred as being more predictable than they were before they took place.[1] It is a multifaceted phenomenon that can affect different stages of designs, processes, contexts, and situations.[2] Hindsight bias may cause memory distortion, where the recollection and reconstruction of content can lead to false theoretical outcomes.

It's NOT after the fact. I made it clear from the beginning that I opposed the Amare signing. I can see by your join date that you wouldn't know that but you shouldn't make assumptions. Fish is right that there's an infinite number of ways things could have unfolded if we hadn't signed Amare (or alternatively if we'd simply declined Billups option and then amnestied Amare - I'm saying that in hindsight though). I was merely responding to the comment that Amare is not a cap-killer because the comment makes no sense. He takes up almost 40% of our cap room, produced this year like a guy who should make one third his salary, and pushed us over the cap. If Fish had acknowledged that Amare is a cap-killer but said he still prefers the way the roster development has unfolded over the uncertainty of going in other directions, that would have been a more sensible argument.

Who would've you signed originally?
Are you saying he can't be productive 2nd option next to Carmelo Anthony any longer?
Lin will most definitely be resigned, Field's still a possibility, and Davis is strictly up to him. JR's and Novak's play this season priced themselves out of the Knicks plans whether the Knicks had cap room or not.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Elton Brand is a cap killer. Amare is a star player who had an off year coming off an injury but has still shown he can be the player we signed. He showed that in his last game. Is Amare's athleticism gone? Is Amare a 35 year old player? No. The guy was banged up. Gilbert Arenas, Rashard Lewis, Elton Brand.. those are cap killers. Guys like Shandon Anderson were cap killers.

Amare is not a cap killer. Please.

Elton Brand is a defensive force and has an expiring contract next season anyway. How do you define cap killer? Does it incorporate producing well-below your salary and being unmovable?

So a 20/12 career guy signs a massive contract, is always hurt, puts up pedestrian stats but you label him a defensive force and he only has one more year left but he's not a cap killer?

Meanwhile Amare who had one off season due to injuries, but has demonstrated clearly that he posseses the athleticism he had pre injury (something Brand does not have) is a cap killer.

Sorry dude... stick to your opinions, even if they are wrong.

Im happy we signed Amare, and still happy.

LOL @ defensive force.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Elton Brand is a cap killer. Amare is a star player who had an off year coming off an injury but has still shown he can be the player we signed. He showed that in his last game. Is Amare's athleticism gone? Is Amare a 35 year old player? No. The guy was banged up. Gilbert Arenas, Rashard Lewis, Elton Brand.. those are cap killers. Guys like Shandon Anderson were cap killers.

Amare is not a cap killer. Please.

Elton Brand is a defensive force and has an expiring contract next season anyway. How do you define cap killer? Does it incorporate producing well-below your salary and being unmovable?

So a 20/12 career guy signs a massive contract, is always hurt, puts up pedestrian stats but you label him a defensive force and he only has one more year left but he's not a cap killer?

Meanwhile Amare who had one off season due to injuries, but has demonstrated clearly that he posseses the athleticism he had pre injury (something Brand does not have) is a cap killer.

Sorry dude... stick to your opinions, even if they are wrong.

Im happy we signed Amare, and still happy.

LOL @ defensive force.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Elton Brand is a cap killer. Amare is a star player who had an off year coming off an injury but has still shown he can be the player we signed. He showed that in his last game. Is Amare's athleticism gone? Is Amare a 35 year old player? No. The guy was banged up. Gilbert Arenas, Rashard Lewis, Elton Brand.. those are cap killers. Guys like Shandon Anderson were cap killers.

Amare is not a cap killer. Please.

Elton Brand is a defensive force and has an expiring contract next season anyway. How do you define cap killer? Does it incorporate producing well-below your salary and being unmovable?

So a 20/12 career guy signs a massive contract, is always hurt, puts up pedestrian stats but you label him a defensive force and he only has one more year left but he's not a cap killer?

Meanwhile Amare who had one off season due to injuries, but has demonstrated clearly that he posseses the athleticism he had pre injury (something Brand does not have) is a cap killer.

Sorry dude... stick to your opinions, even if they are wrong.

Im happy we signed Amare, and still happy.

LOL @ defensive force.

Actually there are plenty of articles mentioning him as a DPOY candidate. I haven't watched many 76ers games and doubt you have either. I'm using the judgment of those who have consistently watched the games. Amare has played like a max contract player for only one of the last six months of basketball. It's not a good gamble but if one of his max contracts months coincides with the timing of playoffs, we've struck gold.

LOL Never saw one article putting Elton Brand in the Defensive Player of the Year race. You truly have a unique "gift" when he comes imparting opinions as facts. These are the consensus favorites:

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/shaun_powell/04/24/defensive-player-of-the-year-pick/

Serge Ibaka

Lebron James

Tyson chandler

Dwight Howard

So, nope, don't think Elton Brand is even in the honorable mention section.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Elton Brand is a cap killer. Amare is a star player who had an off year coming off an injury but has still shown he can be the player we signed. He showed that in his last game. Is Amare's athleticism gone? Is Amare a 35 year old player? No. The guy was banged up. Gilbert Arenas, Rashard Lewis, Elton Brand.. those are cap killers. Guys like Shandon Anderson were cap killers.

Amare is not a cap killer. Please.

Elton Brand is a defensive force and has an expiring contract next season anyway. How do you define cap killer? Does it incorporate producing well-below your salary and being unmovable?

So a 20/12 career guy signs a massive contract, is always hurt, puts up pedestrian stats but you label him a defensive force and he only has one more year left but he's not a cap killer?

Meanwhile Amare who had one off season due to injuries, but has demonstrated clearly that he posseses the athleticism he had pre injury (something Brand does not have) is a cap killer.

Sorry dude... stick to your opinions, even if they are wrong.

Im happy we signed Amare, and still happy.

LOL @ defensive force.

Actually there are plenty of articles mentioning him as a DPOY candidate. I haven't watched many 76ers games and doubt you have either. I'm using the judgment of those who have consistently watched the games. Amare has played like a max contract player for only one of the last six months of basketball. It's not a good gamble but if one of his max contracts months coincides with the timing of playoffs, we've struck gold.

LOL Never saw one article putting Elton Brand in the Defensive Player of the Year race. You truly have a unique "gift" when he comes imparting opinions as facts. These are the consensus favorites:

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/shaun_powell/04/24/defensive-player-of-the-year-pick/

Serge Ibaka

Lebron James

Tyson chandler

Dwight Howard

So, nope, don't think Elton Brand is even in the honorable mention section.