Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CashMoney wrote:To answer the question, I prefer the team as it is today as compared to the team we had. There is no way to really know what the team would look like today had he trade not gone down but comparing apples to apples we have more talent now and have a better chance to win a championship.

I don't disagree with you but one aspect that is almost fun, or tragically sad is we "Have a better chance to win a championship" but yet was are behind last years pace, and was are in a struggle to gain the 8th and final spot in the east.

ON paper we have the talent.

All that transpired this season is part of it. There are reasons and blame is assigned.

There are always "reasons" isn't there?

With the knicks, the more the roster/coaching changes the more things stay the same.

Champion caliber teams take time to put together.

In NY patience is not a virtue, its an anoyance!

Which team do you prefer, last years or this years? Just tell me that much. Because this thread is revisiting the trade so we have the benefit of hindsight.

In no way can you say the roster remains in a "Static" state.

Thus, I cannot begin to compare.

There is way too many variables.

if this does not answer your questions, I am sorry.

+1

Yeah, that's well put. It's desperate to evaluate one trade by comparing the entirety of the roster changes a year later to the roster before the trade. Other than a few Melo trade supporters here, I've never seen anyone do that to evaluate any trade.

Bonn, this goes for both trade supporters and trade detractors. The most you can do is compare the actual players and eventual picks 3-4 years later.

Its clear Melo is the best player in the deal and Billups was still quite good.

The Knicks should be better in the short run and the Nuggs better long term. They got younger players and picks.

THEONE723 wrote:

Nalod wrote:I said last year it would take 5 seasons to fully evaluate the trade. The draft picks are a big part.

Its clear Melo is the best player in the deal and Billups was still quite good.

The Knicks should be better in the short run and the Nuggs better long term. They got younger players and picks.

The things that scares me is the depth after this year. last year we lost the depth and this year we got lucky with lin,novak,smith,and david. Everyone besides lin may be gone which means that we will eb back to square one. Also with Amares back being a cncern losing draft picks also hurts

Thats my point.

And I suppose the result of W-L totals are the true measure.

"Since the trade how did each franchise fair".

There will always be exceptions but how else do you measure?

maybe some formula that accounts salary, wins, playoff wins, winning %.

If you ask me the Knuggs are winning.

Maybe that is your answer.

Mozz+Gallo+Andre MIller+Chandler (and two no. 1's)

Vs

Melo+Chandler

It should be a no brainer right? But it has yet to add up for us.

Nalod wrote:

THEONE723 wrote:

Nalod wrote:I said last year it would take 5 seasons to fully evaluate the trade. The draft picks are a big part.

Its clear Melo is the best player in the deal and Billups was still quite good.

The Knicks should be better in the short run and the Nuggs better long term. They got younger players and picks.

The things that scares me is the depth after this year. last year we lost the depth and this year we got lucky with lin,novak,smith,and david. Everyone besides lin may be gone which means that we will eb back to square one. Also with Amares back being a cncern losing draft picks also hurts

Thats my point.

And I suppose the result of W-L totals are the true measure.

"Since the trade how did each franchise fair".

There will always be exceptions but how else do you measure?

maybe some formula that accounts salary, wins, playoff wins, winning %.

If you ask me the Knuggs are winning.

Maybe that is your answer.

Mozz+Gallo+Andre MIller+Chandler (and two no. 1's)

Vs

Melo+Chandler

It should be a no brainer right? But it has yet to add up for us.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CashMoney wrote:To answer the question, I prefer the team as it is today as compared to the team we had. There is no way to really know what the team would look like today had he trade not gone down but comparing apples to apples we have more talent now and have a better chance to win a championship.

I don't disagree with you but one aspect that is almost fun, or tragically sad is we "Have a better chance to win a championship" but yet was are behind last years pace, and was are in a struggle to gain the 8th and final spot in the east.

ON paper we have the talent.

All that transpired this season is part of it. There are reasons and blame is assigned.

There are always "reasons" isn't there?

With the knicks, the more the roster/coaching changes the more things stay the same.

Champion caliber teams take time to put together.

In NY patience is not a virtue, its an anoyance!

Which team do you prefer, last years or this years? Just tell me that much. Because this thread is revisiting the trade so we have the benefit of hindsight.

In no way can you say the roster remains in a "Static" state.

Thus, I cannot begin to compare.

There is way too many variables.

if this does not answer your questions, I am sorry.

+1

Yeah, that's well put. It's desperate to evaluate one trade by comparing the entirety of the roster changes a year later to the roster before the trade. Other than a few Melo trade supporters here, I've never seen anyone do that to evaluate any trade.

Everyone that said we gave up too much have no argument now because we have have enough players. We made up for PG, we made up for center that was traded away and both were an upgrade. We have last years team and we have this years team. It's obivous you don't have a point. Why else would you say we cannot compare the two rosters. What else are you going to compare?

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CashMoney wrote:To answer the question, I prefer the team as it is today as compared to the team we had. There is no way to really know what the team would look like today had he trade not gone down but comparing apples to apples we have more talent now and have a better chance to win a championship.

I don't disagree with you but one aspect that is almost fun, or tragically sad is we "Have a better chance to win a championship" but yet was are behind last years pace, and was are in a struggle to gain the 8th and final spot in the east.

ON paper we have the talent.

All that transpired this season is part of it. There are reasons and blame is assigned.

There are always "reasons" isn't there?

With the knicks, the more the roster/coaching changes the more things stay the same.

Champion caliber teams take time to put together.

In NY patience is not a virtue, its an anoyance!

Which team do you prefer, last years or this years? Just tell me that much. Because this thread is revisiting the trade so we have the benefit of hindsight.

In no way can you say the roster remains in a "Static" state.

Thus, I cannot begin to compare.

There is way too many variables.

if this does not answer your questions, I am sorry.

+1

Yeah, that's well put. It's desperate to evaluate one trade by comparing the entirety of the roster changes a year later to the roster before the trade. Other than a few Melo trade supporters here, I've never seen anyone do that to evaluate any trade.

I dont think you know what desperate means.

Everyone that said we gave up too much have no argument now because we have have enough players. We made up for PG, we made up for center that was traded away and both were an upgrade. We have last years team and we have this years team. It's obivous you don't have a point. Why else would you say we cannot compare the two rosters. What else are you going to compare?

Silverfuel wrote:a) What do you mean that the roster doesn't remain static? Are you saying we would have signed a PG and a center while we already had Felton and Mozgov? Why would we sign other players if we don't need to fill those positions.
b) The whole point was to compare the two teams. Since you said you cannot begin to compare we have nothing to discuss.

there's a conceivable scenario where the Knicks would still get Chandler and Lin. you think the Knicks would have stuck with Mosgov if they knew they could sign Tyson? you think it's impossible the Knicks might add Lin as a backup if he gets cut? he was on their radar regardless alread. they worked him out before his draft.

ultimately, we can't undo the past and we will never see how the old team would have played out. right now. i kinda don't care because the team has been winning. but we all know this team is about playoff performance. if they don't get past the first round and compete hard in the second -- i think it's fair to say they underachieved.

Silverfuel wrote:

THEONE723 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CashMoney wrote:To answer the question, I prefer the team as it is today as compared to the team we had. There is no way to really know what the team would look like today had he trade not gone down but comparing apples to apples we have more talent now and have a better chance to win a championship.

I don't disagree with you but one aspect that is almost fun, or tragically sad is we "Have a better chance to win a championship" but yet was are behind last years pace, and was are in a struggle to gain the 8th and final spot in the east.

ON paper we have the talent.

All that transpired this season is part of it. There are reasons and blame is assigned.

There are always "reasons" isn't there?

With the knicks, the more the roster/coaching changes the more things stay the same.

Champion caliber teams take time to put together.

In NY patience is not a virtue, its an anoyance!

Which team do you prefer, last years or this years? Just tell me that much. Because this thread is revisiting the trade so we have the benefit of hindsight.

In no way can you say the roster remains in a "Static" state.

Thus, I cannot begin to compare.

There is way too many variables.

if this does not answer your questions, I am sorry.

+1

Yeah, that's well put. It's desperate to evaluate one trade by comparing the entirety of the roster changes a year later to the roster before the trade. Other than a few Melo trade supporters here, I've never seen anyone do that to evaluate any trade.

I dont think you know what desperate means.

Everyone that said we gave up too much have no argument now because we have have enough players. We made up for PG, we made up for center that was traded away and both were an upgrade. We have last years team and we have this years team. It's obivous you don't have a point. Why else would you say we cannot compare the two rosters. What else are you going to compare?

well after this year we are gonna have issues again unless we can retain novak,baron,smith they ahve been great for us

So then we will have to discuss that when it happens.

Silverfuel wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CashMoney wrote:To answer the question, I prefer the team as it is today as compared to the team we had. There is no way to really know what the team would look like today had he trade not gone down but comparing apples to apples we have more talent now and have a better chance to win a championship.

I don't disagree with you but one aspect that is almost fun, or tragically sad is we "Have a better chance to win a championship" but yet was are behind last years pace, and was are in a struggle to gain the 8th and final spot in the east.

ON paper we have the talent.

All that transpired this season is part of it. There are reasons and blame is assigned.

There are always "reasons" isn't there?

With the knicks, the more the roster/coaching changes the more things stay the same.

Champion caliber teams take time to put together.

In NY patience is not a virtue, its an anoyance!

Which team do you prefer, last years or this years? Just tell me that much. Because this thread is revisiting the trade so we have the benefit of hindsight.

In no way can you say the roster remains in a "Static" state.
Thus, I cannot begin to compare.

There is way too many variables.

if this does not answer your questions, I am sorry.

a) What do you mean that the roster doesn't remain static? Are you saying we would have signed a PG and a center while we already had Felton and Mozgov? Why would we sign other players if we don't need to fill those positions.
b) The whole point was to compare the two teams. Since you said you cannot begin to compare we have nothing to discuss.

You can compare the players - really hard to compare teams because they in fact do not remain static.

Who is to say that we would not have traded the very same pieces for DWil or DHow or Tyson.

There really is no way to know how it would have turned out. I personally believe there would have been a myriad of other moves if the Melo trade did not go down.

That would be venturing into the unknown. We can speculate but what will that do? You have last years team and this years team.

If you want to compare players, go ahead. Bring up Gallo and Melo. Bring up Lin and felton. Bring up Mozgov and Tyson. I will discuss that.

I don't disagree with the trade - I was for it and still am! I just don't think you can compare teams. But , I think this "team" is far better especially defensively. Unfortunately it took this long to actually see it. Last years team could not play defense or REBOUND!! If we hit our 3's we won, if we missed, we lost. That's crappy basketball IMHO.

I vote for defensive minded basketball where we can suck offensively and still blow other teams out!!

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I am as big a fan of Gallo as their is here.

The team this year as it is now, is MUCH better than the team before the trades. No question. DO I like Melo? Not a big fan of him so far but this past 9 games has been a nice change from the previous 80 or so.

THEONE723 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

THEONE723 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CashMoney wrote:To answer the question, I prefer the team as it is today as compared to the team we had. There is no way to really know what the team would look like today had he trade not gone down but comparing apples to apples we have more talent now and have a better chance to win a championship.

I don't disagree with you but one aspect that is almost fun, or tragically sad is we "Have a better chance to win a championship" but yet was are behind last years pace, and was are in a struggle to gain the 8th and final spot in the east.

ON paper we have the talent.

All that transpired this season is part of it. There are reasons and blame is assigned.

There are always "reasons" isn't there?

With the knicks, the more the roster/coaching changes the more things stay the same.

Champion caliber teams take time to put together.

In NY patience is not a virtue, its an anoyance!

Which team do you prefer, last years or this years? Just tell me that much. Because this thread is revisiting the trade so we have the benefit of hindsight.

In no way can you say the roster remains in a "Static" state.

Thus, I cannot begin to compare.

There is way too many variables.

if this does not answer your questions, I am sorry.

+1

Yeah, that's well put. It's desperate to evaluate one trade by comparing the entirety of the roster changes a year later to the roster before the trade. Other than a few Melo trade supporters here, I've never seen anyone do that to evaluate any trade.

I dont think you know what desperate means.

Everyone that said we gave up too much have no argument now because we have have enough players. We made up for PG, we made up for center that was traded away and both were an upgrade. We have last years team and we have this years team. It's obivous you don't have a point. Why else would you say we cannot compare the two rosters. What else are you going to compare?

well after this year we are gonna have issues again unless we can retain novak,baron,smith they ahve been great for us

So then we will have to discuss that when it happens.

sure but what wrong with throwing it out there now