Anji wrote:Win shares is such bull****, if this doesn't show that it is flawed as hell then a guess nothing will.

There's this assumption that MDA hurt the team's ability to play good D but minus Melo this is what actually happened.

“Linsanity” has become an international phenomenon, dominating headlines from Brooklyn to Beijing.

However, as remarkable and incredible as the Jeremy Lin story has been, it isn’t the sole reason the Knicks are surging and climbing up the Eastern Conference standings. With Lin getting unprecedented coverage and heaps of credit, the other ingredients that have played a part in the recent success enjoyed by the Knicks seemed to have received short shrift. In particular, New York’s markedly improved defense has been essential to their recent run.

Long a sore spot for Mike D’Antoni, his team’s defensive consistency (or lack thereof) had previously been an impediment to their success. But recently, New York’s stingy defense has been essential to their winning ways.

When the Knicks knocked off the Kings at Madison Square Garden last Wednesday night, beating Sacramento100-85 for their seventh straight victory, it was also the seventh straight game New York had held their opponent to below 100 points. This tied the organization’s longest streak of that kind over the past 18 seasons. The last time New York had matched that feat was back in 2001, which, coincidentally, was the last time the Knicks won a playoff game.

And despite losing to New Orleans on Friday, the Knicks defense kept an opponent under 90 points for the 10th time (they are 9-1 in such games). Prior to this season, the Knicks held their opponents under 90 points five times in their previous 95 games.

Coming into the 2011-2012 campaign, the Knicks had allowed over 110 points per 100 possessions in each of their previous four seasons, including all three under D’Antoni. This season, New York is allowing just 99.5 points per 100 possessions, which ranks sixth-best in the entire league. This is the first time New York has allowed under 100 per 100 possessions since… yes, 2001.

New York is currently holding its opponents to 93.9 points per game on 44.5% shooting after allowing 105.7 points on 47.2% shooting last season. This type of terrific turnaround is rarely seen in the NBA from one year to the next.

In early January, the Knicks actually held three straight opponents under 90 points. Prior to that stretch, the last time New York had held even two straight opponents under 90 points was all the way back in December of 2005. In fact, during that streak, the Knicks kept those teams under 88 points. As a point of comparison, in NY’s three previous seasons with D’Antoni at the helm, they held an opponent under 88 a TOTAL of nine times. That’s three games in a row, versus nine times total over the span of three complete seasons (246 games).

As these numbers illustrate, New York’s team defense hasn’t just been adequate, it’s been very good. And by just reading the headlines you might not know it, but there have actually been other players sharing the court with Jeremy Lin. The most important of these players has been big man Tyson Chandler.

HugeKnick4 wrote:Nixluva, just be prepared for the "they were bad teams card".

Oh I know the usual, but they ignore the fact that the Knicks were undermanned and didn't have all the guys we have now. It all balances out. There were good teams in that run too. The main point is that there was a stark contrast in how the team played with really great team unity and excitement. All done pretty much with role players.

nixluva wrote:mrKnickShot, I don't owe you any more of an explanation just cuz you want me to give you more than i've already said. You seem to think your catching me in some kind of spot by making demands for me to bash MDA more. You haven't posted anything to really refute my views about STAT and Melo. In my view MDA didn't handle the issue of Melo's resistance to his role in MDA's offense very well. I think he failed to find a good balance between what Melo would be comfortable with and what the TEAM needed from Melo for everyone and not just him to excel. However, we saw that immediately upon removing Melo from the equation the team did better in all aspects. This is why I don't blame MDA as much as Melo for the teams issues. Melo has been struggling since the beginning of the year and the only difference now is that he's finally playing D and not breaking plays or sulking. In short Melo is finally TRYING to do his part on both ends even as he struggles to score. He could always have done this but didn't!!!

There's this assumption that MDA hurt the team's ability to play good D but minus Melo this is what actually happened.

“Linsanity” has become an international phenomenon, dominating headlines from Brooklyn to Beijing.

However, as remarkable and incredible as the Jeremy Lin story has been, it isn’t the sole reason the Knicks are surging and climbing up the Eastern Conference standings. With Lin getting unprecedented coverage and heaps of credit, the other ingredients that have played a part in the recent success enjoyed by the Knicks seemed to have received short shrift. In particular, New York’s markedly improved defense has been essential to their recent run.

Long a sore spot for Mike D’Antoni, his team’s defensive consistency (or lack thereof) had previously been an impediment to their success. But recently, New York’s stingy defense has been essential to their winning ways.

When the Knicks knocked off the Kings at Madison Square Garden last Wednesday night, beating Sacramento100-85 for their seventh straight victory, it was also the seventh straight game New York had held their opponent to below 100 points. This tied the organization’s longest streak of that kind over the past 18 seasons. The last time New York had matched that feat was back in 2001, which, coincidentally, was the last time the Knicks won a playoff game.

And despite losing to New Orleans on Friday, the Knicks defense kept an opponent under 90 points for the 10th time (they are 9-1 in such games). Prior to this season, the Knicks held their opponents under 90 points five times in their previous 95 games.

Coming into the 2011-2012 campaign, the Knicks had allowed over 110 points per 100 possessions in each of their previous four seasons, including all three under D’Antoni. This season, New York is allowing just 99.5 points per 100 possessions, which ranks sixth-best in the entire league. This is the first time New York has allowed under 100 per 100 possessions since… yes, 2001.

New York is currently holding its opponents to 93.9 points per game on 44.5% shooting after allowing 105.7 points on 47.2% shooting last season. This type of terrific turnaround is rarely seen in the NBA from one year to the next.

In early January, the Knicks actually held three straight opponents under 90 points. Prior to that stretch, the last time New York had held even two straight opponents under 90 points was all the way back in December of 2005. In fact, during that streak, the Knicks kept those teams under 88 points. As a point of comparison, in NY’s three previous seasons with D’Antoni at the helm, they held an opponent under 88 a TOTAL of nine times. That’s three games in a row, versus nine times total over the span of three complete seasons (246 games).

As these numbers illustrate, New York’s team defense hasn’t just been adequate, it’s been very good. And by just reading the headlines you might not know it, but there have actually been other players sharing the court with Jeremy Lin. The most important of these players has been big man Tyson Chandler.

Ok. Never mind. "I blame him for x but it was really not his fault cause they did well without Melo" - not getting anywhere.

I don't refute anything about Stat and Melo. They sucked along with the coach.

I guess I was just looking for you to either say "MDA did nothing wrong" - which is fine or "MDA did a bad job defensively, was too stubborn to adjust the offense ..." not hedging.

Nixluva, I do apologize if my arguments got personal. It was unintended and just part of the heat of the argument.

Syniko wrote:

Anji wrote:Win shares is such bull****, if this doesn't show that it is flawed as hell then a guess nothing will.

People are going crazy over the lock out season when there is no other reason to look past. I read a stat that this season of players who play more than 20 minutes, 88 players are shooting under 40% this season versus 24 players last. Just chill out newbs!!!!!!

Then why are there other players not affected by a shooting slump like Melo??? They have to play through a lock-out season too. NO EXCUSES!!!

You just can't spew out the same garbage when I'm giving exactly what you are asking for, 1/3 of the rotation players in the league are having a problem. This not a discussion if you just keep posting the same thing......

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:mrKnickShot, I don't owe you any more of an explanation just cuz you want me to give you more than i've already said. You seem to think your catching me in some kind of spot by making demands for me to bash MDA more. You haven't posted anything to really refute my views about STAT and Melo. In my view MDA didn't handle the issue of Melo's resistance to his role in MDA's offense very well. I think he failed to find a good balance between what Melo would be comfortable with and what the TEAM needed from Melo for everyone and not just him to excel. However, we saw that immediately upon removing Melo from the equation the team did better in all aspects. This is why I don't blame MDA as much as Melo for the teams issues. Melo has been struggling since the beginning of the year and the only difference now is that he's finally playing D and not breaking plays or sulking. In short Melo is finally TRYING to do his part on both ends even as he struggles to score. He could always have done this but didn't!!!

There's this assumption that MDA hurt the team's ability to play good D but minus Melo this is what actually happened.

“Linsanity” has become an international phenomenon, dominating headlines from Brooklyn to Beijing.

However, as remarkable and incredible as the Jeremy Lin story has been, it isn’t the sole reason the Knicks are surging and climbing up the Eastern Conference standings. With Lin getting unprecedented coverage and heaps of credit, the other ingredients that have played a part in the recent success enjoyed by the Knicks seemed to have received short shrift. In particular, New York’s markedly improved defense has been essential to their recent run.

Long a sore spot for Mike D’Antoni, his team’s defensive consistency (or lack thereof) had previously been an impediment to their success. But recently, New York’s stingy defense has been essential to their winning ways.

When the Knicks knocked off the Kings at Madison Square Garden last Wednesday night, beating Sacramento100-85 for their seventh straight victory, it was also the seventh straight game New York had held their opponent to below 100 points. This tied the organization’s longest streak of that kind over the past 18 seasons. The last time New York had matched that feat was back in 2001, which, coincidentally, was the last time the Knicks won a playoff game.

And despite losing to New Orleans on Friday, the Knicks defense kept an opponent under 90 points for the 10th time (they are 9-1 in such games). Prior to this season, the Knicks held their opponents under 90 points five times in their previous 95 games.

Coming into the 2011-2012 campaign, the Knicks had allowed over 110 points per 100 possessions in each of their previous four seasons, including all three under D’Antoni. This season, New York is allowing just 99.5 points per 100 possessions, which ranks sixth-best in the entire league. This is the first time New York has allowed under 100 per 100 possessions since… yes, 2001.

New York is currently holding its opponents to 93.9 points per game on 44.5% shooting after allowing 105.7 points on 47.2% shooting last season. This type of terrific turnaround is rarely seen in the NBA from one year to the next.

In early January, the Knicks actually held three straight opponents under 90 points. Prior to that stretch, the last time New York had held even two straight opponents under 90 points was all the way back in December of 2005. In fact, during that streak, the Knicks kept those teams under 88 points. As a point of comparison, in NY’s three previous seasons with D’Antoni at the helm, they held an opponent under 88 a TOTAL of nine times. That’s three games in a row, versus nine times total over the span of three complete seasons (246 games).

As these numbers illustrate, New York’s team defense hasn’t just been adequate, it’s been very good. And by just reading the headlines you might not know it, but there have actually been other players sharing the court with Jeremy Lin. The most important of these players has been big man Tyson Chandler.

Ok. Never mind. "I blame him for x but it was really not his fault cause they did well without Melo" - not getting anywhere.

I don't refute anything about Stat and Melo. They sucked along with the coach.

I guess I was just looking for you to either say "MDA did nothing wrong" - which is fine or "MDA did a bad job defensively, was too stubborn to adjust the offense ..." not hedging.

Nixluva, I do apologize if my arguments got personal. It was unintended and just part of the heat of the argument.

I don't know what you want me to say if this is how I feel. These other guys calling me a nuthugger and worse is really uncalled for. This is just my personal opinion and it's not unwarranted given the things I feel i've presented. Everyone doesn't have to agree, but if they don't they should present an opposing argument rather than call people names. I've done this in anger, but not just to be derogatory with no justification at all.

All i'm doing is presenting my opinion, that is what the forum is about. Until proven otherwise I still feel that Melo has the greater burden to bare in this situation. He's the guy we gave up major assets for and the guy at the middle of the controversy since he's come here. Until this team wins more with him than without him or at least performs at a higher level with him than without him my judgment stands.

Anji wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Anji wrote:Win shares is such bull****, if this doesn't show that it is flawed as hell then a guess nothing will.

Hilarious...no one even cited or discussed win shares. I can't imagine what "this" could be referring to.

So I'm guessing a chart with W/s48 and +/- highlighted in bold red doesn't count as citing???

What's Hilarious is Novack being last of three in any stat that doesn't involve his three shooting, but far and way having the best W/S48. This isn't baseball, W/S is bull****.

For most people, the naked eye is weak, but in my case it is very good. I have an uncanny feel for the game, so my naked eye > win shares.

This is my argument, and this thread is my point. Novacks win share is totally inflated because the 3 ball basically carries all his stats like he hits 2 homers a game, it's the only thing he does at a high level and it tells me nothing about him as a player.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Anji wrote:"If basketball had a definitive value system like Homerun/4bases to strikeout, then it would be great. But the Three ball isn't a Home run and there isn't 27 outs to position these plays against."

This is my argument, and this thread is my point. Novacks win share is totally inflated because the 3 ball basically carries all his stats like he hits 2 homers a game, it's the only thing he does at a high level and it tells me nothing about him as a player.

Can you define "definitive value system"? I don't have any idea what you mean.