crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:On Melo:
We gave up good players to get him. The team's record is well below .500 with him on the floor. So his impact on the floor as a "star" player has been very Marbury like.

He wanted to come here to "win" and team up with other stars like in Miami, but the first thing that happened was he got a big extension insuring we couldnt get another max player. We got lucky being able to amnesty Billups and sign Chandler. If not for that provision in the new CBA (added after Melo's extension) then Jarred Jeffries is the starting center for the forseeable Melo ara

He created a toxic environment w/ the coach and it killed the team chemisty. Was MDA partly to blame? Of course! All relationships go both ways, but MDA was not supported by ownership so it was up to Melo to make it work. He opted to pout and be smug and magically play much better the day after the coach was fired.

We traded for Melo to compete with the elite team because you need stars to win right? He had like 1 and a half great playoff games vs. Boston and in the end was beat and outplayed in crunch time by Paul Pierce.

Oh.. on the playoffs? He's a combined 16-30. 1-4, 1-4, 1-4, 1-4, 0-4, 10-6, 2-4. But sure... lets keep pretending this the playoff tested horse to ride deep into the playoffs. Funny how MDA's "system" was regarded as not suitable for a playoff run.

I would say most non kool-aid drinking Knick fans have every right to be critical of Melo. He's done nothing for the Knicks thats memorable or for his old team for that matter. When Miami got Lebron he was an MVP and went deep into the playoffs every year. Also Lebron CHANGED his game under new coach to improve his defense among other things.

Im a Knick fan and I root for the Knicks to play well and win games. When Melo is playing well he's an enjoyable player to have on the team. He's the most talented player he have. He's the player we gave up the most to get. He's the player we have built this team around for better or for worse, but to me Melo has EVERYTHING to prove.

Melo has to prove he's a team first player and able to lead a team (even if just play playing well) on a playoff run.

Melo has to prove he can play a SERIES and win against elite NBA players or those here would consider his "peers"

To me its simple, the Knicks need a deep playoff run. If we lose to the Bulls or Heat in 6-7 game in the EConf finals OK.. it happens. If we lose to the Bulls or Heat in the first round 1-4 and Melo has a couple great scoring games in losing efforts I could give two fying craps. We could have done that just fine with Gallo and Will Chandler.

I can definitely respect your view here. A lot of people who initially defended Melo are so caught up on continuing to defending him and it's puzzling to me. He hasn't done anything to justify the support some here give him.

I think it has to do with the fact that pro-Melo crowd was anti-Pringles, while the anti-Melo crowd tended to be pro-Pringles. While that isn't universal, I'd say there was a lot of irrational support for Pringles too. Definitely gald that era is dead.

But as for the Melo support, there are posters here that blindly support him and there are posters that will never factor what he does well into the analysis. both are equally as puzzling/frustrating

getting in bed as (or in the truck) with a player is bigger commitment as a team. Coaches are as replaceable as we have seen over recent years. Talent, and the right kind of talent is the hardest thing to get. we gave up a lot of talent to get Melo, and a lot of players a lot of people here were pretty high on in Felton/Gallo/Mosgov/Chandler.

You can undo MDA. You can undo Woodson. Mistakes with talent are tougher to overcome.

I thought the Melo trade was a mistake. Too much talent going out. Too many pieces. Too flawed a player to put all your chips into, with too weak a body of work (playoffs) to show he could hang with the big boys.

Im not hoping for the guy to fail to validate my (usually wrong) opinion. I just call it like I see it. I hope he wins us many titles. You need a go to scorer, you just do. He can certainly fill that roll and this GM has done a great job (luck or otherwise) in building the roster around him.

good posts, fish.

i've gone back and forth on the trade a number of times. i think it essentially boils down to melo for gallo and wilson, honestly. which i think you have to do.

the playoffs do come down to winning in crunch time. with melo, the knicks have one of the best one on one players in the league at late game situations. the guy is clutch. he doesn't fear late game situations, he relishes them. that's huge. the problem is getting him to play defense in the middle of the third quarter in milwaukee in the middle of february. the great ones bring it every day. melo has to prove he can bring the effort every day.

he has to prove he can lead a team or pick a team up in the playoffs. he has some serious help in Lin and Tyson and the rest of the team, but particularly Lin and Tyson are guys who can make his life easier and help make his game better.

i think the knicks HAVE to win a round of the playoffs this year. they HAVE to get to the second round. that's just all there is to it.

I agree that we need to win a round this year but remember that it will need to be an upset.

mrKnickShot wrote:I agree that we need to win a round this year but remember that it will need to be an upset.

they're four games behind the sixers with 22 games to go. they play the sixers wednesday. they need to catch the sixers and get the 4 seed, likely play indiana in the first round.

it can and should be done.

Nalod wrote:

IN a word: "Starphuched"

You'll stoop to any level for word royalties, won't you?

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

IN a word: "Starphuched"

You'll stoop to any level for word royalties, won't you?

Part of the "Melo's bad image" is the built up hype in which he came riding in on.

expectations were super high.

SuperPeople need to do super things.

If the expectations are not met, jobs are lost, image declines, towels go on heads (im wondering if there is a kNick rule against doing a "TowelBury", and in a word.......

We'll you know......

"STARPHUCKED" again!

Syniko wrote:Melo is a god damn clown. He's going to step into clown suit tonight...

You're a clown.

Anji wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:did Melo give the same effort to MDA's teams he has under Woodson? The answer is no. Its really not up for debate. Now that doesnt mean Melo quit. He may have been frustrated. He may have been distracted. He may have been thinking of Lala's boobs everytime he saw MDA's stache. It doesnt matter. What matters is Melo didnt play as hard for MDA and in turn didnt play hard for the team.

Not giving max effort is really the ultimate knock on any player. Better players than Melo have run coaches out of town. It happens.

I agree with you there, but it's half the story and a little unfair. Pringles asked Melo to be Gallo or Shawne Williams. We never asked them to save the team in that role. Everyone seemed to assume Melo would off of reputation alone. But Pringles did not redesign that role whatsoever to let Melo do the things that Melo does best

I think that's what was so wrong with the picture. People say be a leader, be a leader, but the orders were to follow Lin??? What coach asks their star player to not play to their strengths.

We going to bring in Dwight and go away from post play??? Maybe acquire Dwade and tell him to flow off ball, be our Landry Fields???

I personally believe that everything flows from the head coach and if he has players that can't do what he wants is one thing. Not being able to utilize what you have is another.

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I'm getting a little sick and tired of the Melo Haters knocking every thing this man is doing. If we want a championship we will need Melo no matter how you feel. I do believe that with some it's not about winning a championship because if you had a choice of Melo being gone and not having a chance of a Championship you would just rather loose. Listen I like Lins game but if he makes Melo unhappy you better believe Lin will sit. And the crap about him ignoring Melo on the court is totally wrong. Cut the man some slack. If Melo had to take a piss some of you would find something to complain about that. The Chemistry with the team is good. Let it alone

Well Said!

Couldn't agree with you more 199%
Melo has bad bad poor season. If that wasn't the case highlighting his poor play and some bad court decision
this career ppg/avg 27pt if Melo was playing like 1/2 his career totals we'd not be talking about.
Same goes for Amare 'zilch' Stoudemire season which seems to be coming along positively & finally.

The haters would vanish, NY would be 6-7 over .500 and we may have had this coach finish the yr.
Melo got no credit for facing the fire storms and answer all interviews never running away from the heat.
That's stand up guy to me, as a knick fan

Yes! I remember all the years they KILLED!! Eli Manning. How bad of a trade we made with SD. He just has such bad awwww shucks expressions blah blah blah

He dealt with this crap everyday and never said anything in the media and handled himself with class while the brutal NY fans killed him (as they did Ewing relentlessly).

Lotta haters in NY and there always will be. And, the only way to appease them is to win it all. Just ask Eli Manning. NY fans woulda traded him back for Philip Rivers in a heartbeat. Now? Maybe not. Oh sure - now they'd say "I always loved Eli - I never did not like him I just wanted him to play better and show that he cared more"

Same sh1t different player.

Did Eli ever quit on a coach? And in doing so quit on his team? Comparing those two is insane, they are nothing alike.

You r correct ! Not alike

Where I can't agree is quit on coach cause that is #1 easy perception U.S.S. Ship Dantoni put out there n placed in most peoples heads MDA is more devisive than Melo

Melo says he support coach twice in public, includes time ax-ing for MDA head was coimng n at time PG J.Lin saved MDA job. Not even once did legend coach mda publicly support Melo thru his slumps n all fire-heat Melo took on NOT MDA nor NOT Amare.

Just cause melo play poor or busted plays on D' isn't proof he ever quit on mda.
By the way for record D and Melo not playin it falls simply under devisive mda concepts of hoops

There is lists of guys earning MDA doghouse cause we hear its all n ONLY bout MDA system in pro nba hoops and when system
Fails its Never the coach having to fix a kink or gap in his systems its solely the players or stars themselves. The devisive MDA let all believe. Like some gospel that Anthony is sole reason for poor record to the extent he wants to trade superstar or star not even given few options in his system. And let all know Melo has to go not MDA.

Note g karl never popped off on melo til it was known melo wanted to leave to home Nyk and by the way prior to Melo exercising his contract options didn't Nuggets win regularly? For 6-7 yrs in row under quiet Karl whom prior to negoitiations had all nice things in world to praise melo on but when Melo ny intents came out then out came the G karl poison darts.

Yea yep Karl another good coach n two-faced bass-sard with no lesser ego than Melo n MDA

Well for 1 second i if you don't think mda system is bad but good you. Work out issues with Melo in year that was vital for yourself as coach, vital for melo n knick success to improve. Especially knowing melo was hurt n slumpin badly. You Don't QUIT on a team reeling nor Quit on ny city fans like you did Mike cause u took easy high road wanting to prove Melo would burn n be scrutinized horribly.

Yea Mike so far it aint workin!
By the way the mda system? Hasn't won jack the lasttime we checked n its indicative to me that it seriously needed an engine
overhaul n big time Tuneup! Includes coach whom quit on NY.

At the end of the day Melo will always have his haters. He'll dish 7 and score 14 and he'll be accussed of not shooting enough. He'll have an off game and shoot 30% from the field and it will be that he shoots too much. It's the Eli/A-Rod syndrome of NY sports.

Until he gets us to the promised land Melo hating will contine to live strong.

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:Melo gets pissed off a few times and know he's Mr. Pout? Sure, he was pissed about being benche in the 4th quarter and being put back into a game with 3 minutes left. Yup, he got pissed off when he had a post up mismatch and Lin didn't get him the rock. For a guy who is accused of continous pouting I don't see it.

At the end of the day Melo will always have his haters. He'll dish 7 and score 14 and he'll be accussed of not shooting enough. He'll have an off game and shoot 30% from the field and it will be that he shoots too much. It's the Eli/A-Rod syndrome of NY sports.

Until he gets us to the promised land Melo hating will contine to live strong.

The problem is that shooting 30% from the field wouldn't really be an off game this year.

I know where you're coming from but even with him not playing up to standards this year he's shooting 40% for the year. Also, he's at 43% from the field over the last 3 games which is not that far off from his 45% career shooting percentage.

fishmike wrote:

Anji wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Anji wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:did Melo give the same effort to MDA's teams he has under Woodson? The answer is no. Its really not up for debate. Now that doesnt mean Melo quit. He may have been frustrated. He may have been distracted. He may have been thinking of Lala's boobs everytime he saw MDA's stache. It doesnt matter. What matters is Melo didnt play as hard for MDA and in turn didnt play hard for the team.

Not giving max effort is really the ultimate knock on any player. Better players than Melo have run coaches out of town. It happens.

I agree with you there, but it's half the story and a little unfair. Pringles asked Melo to be Gallo or Shawne Williams. We never asked them to save the team in that role. Everyone seemed to assume Melo would off of reputation alone. But Pringles did not redesign that role whatsoever to let Melo do the things that Melo does best

I think that's what was so wrong with the picture. People say be a leader, be a leader, but the orders were to follow Lin??? What coach asks their star player to not play to their strengths.

We going to bring in Dwight and go away from post play??? Maybe acquire Dwade and tell him to flow off ball, be our Landry Fields???

I personally believe that everything flows from the head coach and if he has players that can't do what he wants is one thing. Not being able to utilize what you have is another.

What would you have done? Tell the team to play the way they were before the winning started?

I'm not a coach, but there has to be a better way to handle what went down this year than basically pitting your Rookie point guard against your star small forward.

Or Pitting your star Power Forward against your pillar of team captain Center. Maybe Meshing talents wasn't the coaches strong suit, it was all Amare and let everyone else fall in, then Melo to being the season, then Lin to end.

like what better way? Serious... do elaborate. Even playing monday morning QB you cant come up with something? Its ok to rip the coach but have no idea what he could have done better?

Look.... Im not trying to rip you apart here, but your making my point, which is the last coach was stuck in a no win. The only guy who could run his offense was Lin and that immediatly translated into wins and an energized style of play on BOTH ends. Then his star player comes back and doesnt want to adapt to a style that was producing wins. Whats the coach to do?

this quote from Chris Mullin's banner ceremony struck me as an apporpriate explanation here:

"It was the most fun I had playing basketball in my whole life," Mullin said during a 20-minute pregame interview with reporters. "What Tim had, I didn't have. What Mitch could do, I couldn't do. Together, Nellie figured out how to mix and match that thing. I loved that style of play."