[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

can we please trade Melo while there is value before the rest of the league realizes he's the next Vince Carter?
Author Thread
loweyecue
Posts: 27468
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 11/20/2005
Member: #1037

3/12/2012  6:35 PM
Knixkik wrote:
JCrusher wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I would look to deal Stoudemire first to see if that makes a difference with Melo. Then if it doesn't work fire Dantoni. Those 2 things need to happen before trading Melo, a young, dynamic scorer who's talent would be extremely difficult to replace. If this was a deep playoff team without him, i would say get him off the team, but we are not a deep playoff team, we are a first round playoff team at best without Melo. Melo is proven in the west as the only major superstar on a strong playoff team. Amare is not, and is older and more injury prone. Look to deal him for another PF like Smith, Scola, etc, and see what difference it makes first. I think it is more important to find the right combination of players before trading your best player.
i agree that its clear both guys dont fit at the same time. i think if amare goes melo fit fit better since he will be the main guy

That's exactly what i'm saying. Let's give Melo a chance for this to be his team. He excelled being surrounded by strong role players in the past (Billups, Nene, Martin, Donte Jones, etc.) Let Lin learn to be his Billups, Chandler is Martin as the defensive enforcer, and we have some other solid role players like Shumpert, Fields, Novak, Davis, Harrellson, JJ, etc who all fit specific roles off the bench. Trade Stat to add another good fit for Melo, then let's see what happens.

Melo is alreayd the main guy, he can't win it by himslef Amare is playing second fiddle and isn't bitching about it. What you suugest will not fix the problem, because it ignores the problem.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
AUTOADVERT
mrKnickShot
Posts: 28157
Alba Posts: 16
Joined: 5/3/2011
Member: #3553

3/12/2012  6:36 PM
loweyecue wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:Maybe we can get Donnie Walsh back to clean up this **** again.

Didn't he hire MDA, make the Melo trade, sign Stat ...?

Which moves that were not his are hurting us?

Lin, Chandler?

The only move that Grunwald made that looks crappy is JR Smith

That would be the Melo trade.

I thought Walsh made that trade.

mrKnickShot
Posts: 28157
Alba Posts: 16
Joined: 5/3/2011
Member: #3553

3/12/2012  6:39 PM
loweyecue wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I would look to deal Stoudemire first to see if that makes a difference with Melo. Then if it doesn't work fire Dantoni. Those 2 things need to happen before trading Melo, a young, dynamic scorer who's talent would be extremely difficult to replace. If this was a deep playoff team without him, i would say get him off the team, but we are not a deep playoff team, we are a first round playoff team at best without Melo. Melo is proven in the west as the only major superstar on a strong playoff team. Amare is not, and is older and more injury prone. Look to deal him for another PF like Smith, Scola, etc, and see what difference it makes first. I think it is more important to find the right combination of players before trading your best player.

That's certainly one direction to go. We will get some coach who will implement a grinding half court offense, Lin will become a forgotten footnote and we will routinely score 90 points a game with MElo shooting 30% from teh field.

Why would Melo shoot 30 pct from the field. He is a 45 pct shooter for his career. Exactly like Kobe. Just Hatin?

loweyecue
Posts: 27468
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 11/20/2005
Member: #1037

3/12/2012  6:39 PM
Knixkik wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:what happens when Josh Smith loses his athleticism? we get the next Tracy McGrady?

I'm not opposed to dealing Melo, but if it isn't for the right deal, what will happen is we dump him at a discount and then another team builds actually fits him into a structure that works. and then this forum starts churning out "Why Did We Trade Zach Randolph Melo for Nothing?" threads


Yup you hit the nail in the head. That's exactly what happens when you keep turning the roster over and you don't five it time to work under the right system. And like I said earlier there are only a handful of players in this league worth trading for and they are going no where. Kobe, lebron, durant, derrick Rose, dwill. trade for anyone one else and you are just playing musical chairs. Players get traded for a reason. Franchise players don't get traded. we could've had our very own franchise player if we didn't constantly trade lottery picks the past 11yrs and drafted better

Exactly right. It is a lot easier to find a new coach and/or supporting cast for the franchise player than just trade him. For better or for worst Melo is our franchise player. We need to embrase him as hard as it is and figure out how to build this team around him to win. It's been done before, it can be done again.

Why don't you check out the last team that embraced Melo as their franchise player and see what it got them?

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
loweyecue
Posts: 27468
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 11/20/2005
Member: #1037

3/12/2012  6:41 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:Maybe we can get Donnie Walsh back to clean up this **** again.

Didn't he hire MDA, make the Melo trade, sign Stat ...?

Which moves that were not his are hurting us?

Lin, Chandler?

The only move that Grunwald made that looks crappy is JR Smith

That would be the Melo trade.

I thought Walsh made that trade.

Walsh made the PR job after Dolan made the trade, tha much was obvious to everyone who was watching.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
3/12/2012  6:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/12/2012  6:47 PM
Knixkik wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
crzymdups wrote:i think trading melo is the way to go.

only problem is that dolan will never allow it. melo was his move, he's gonna go down swinging with him... or just keep raising ticket prices and losing, either way.

If we trade Melo, we won't get back equal value. Trading Melo means we are left with a team built around a declining star in Stoudemire, and a team that's fun to watch, and will go on a winning streak, but it's better than a first round playoff team at the end of the day. Rather than build this team into a perenntial first round exit, why don't we try to build around Melo properly, know the success that has happened in the past.

Melo is a perennial first round exit. Check his career. One time past the first round. One. And that had as much or more to do with Billups, who was that team's MVP.

I build this team around Lin and Tyson and Shumpert - value defense. I'd trade Melo for Iguodala or Luol Deng or Josh Smith in a heartbeat.

It's not about "equal value" or "talent" - it's about building a team that makes sense together and is all on the same page.

Melo is always gonna be on his page. "Equal value" - is Danilo Gallinari alone equal value, because I'd undo the trade just to get Gallo back, but Denver never would. So what's equal value there?

Building the team around very good role players (Lin may be the only one with more than role player upside) means you think a team like the Nuggets or Sixers can win a championship. When have you ever heard of a team without any stars winning anything? Don't say Detriot, because they had 4 all-stars on that roster. Building around those 3 players keeps you as a .500 team. They are all great complimentary players, but who are they going to compliment. I belive these players can all compliment Melo, but at some point you have to go with what history says makes sense. If you don't like Melo as a defender, fine, then put defenders around him. But almost every team to win in the playoffs needs a big time scorer. Think about Dallas from last season. They looked dead in the water, and the championship window had closed. All they needed was a supporting cast that fit. Melo can become Dirk if we do this right. I think you look at that building model, and go from there.

I guess it all depends on whether you think Melo is the kind of talent you can build a champion around. I feel that Melo is not good enough to be the best player on a championship team.

And no one considered the Detroit players all-stars until AFTER they won it all.

And you know what the Detroit team did? They defended. Every night. Something the Knicks did when Lin was playing. Something Melo has never done once. I've never though after a game Melo played in here - wow, melo really stepped it up on defense tonight. he really made the opposing team work for the whole game. Never.

So, while you may be right and no one wins a ring without superstars... I question whether Melo is a superstar or a highly decorated Glenn Robinson. Marbury put up numbers, too. But like Melo, he had a hard time winning in the playoffs. Melo is shooting 41% - something Crawford was crucified for here and Crawford played with a lot less talent.

Check the Knicks record over the past two months if you take out Linsanity's 8-1. They're 5-16. Melo's a superstar? Gimmeabreak.

¿ △ ?
loweyecue
Posts: 27468
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 11/20/2005
Member: #1037

3/12/2012  6:46 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I would look to deal Stoudemire first to see if that makes a difference with Melo. Then if it doesn't work fire Dantoni. Those 2 things need to happen before trading Melo, a young, dynamic scorer who's talent would be extremely difficult to replace. If this was a deep playoff team without him, i would say get him off the team, but we are not a deep playoff team, we are a first round playoff team at best without Melo. Melo is proven in the west as the only major superstar on a strong playoff team. Amare is not, and is older and more injury prone. Look to deal him for another PF like Smith, Scola, etc, and see what difference it makes first. I think it is more important to find the right combination of players before trading your best player.

That's certainly one direction to go. We will get some coach who will implement a grinding half court offense, Lin will become a forgotten footnote and we will routinely score 90 points a game with MElo shooting 30% from teh field.

Why would Melo shoot 30 pct from the field. He is a 45 pct shooter for his career. Exactly like Kobe. Just Hatin?

Not hating, exagerating to make a point. The Kobe/Melo comparison falls off on the other side of the ball. Kobe is an elite defender Melo is wannabe adequate.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
mrKnickShot
Posts: 28157
Alba Posts: 16
Joined: 5/3/2011
Member: #3553

3/12/2012  6:47 PM
loweyecue wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I would look to deal Stoudemire first to see if that makes a difference with Melo. Then if it doesn't work fire Dantoni. Those 2 things need to happen before trading Melo, a young, dynamic scorer who's talent would be extremely difficult to replace. If this was a deep playoff team without him, i would say get him off the team, but we are not a deep playoff team, we are a first round playoff team at best without Melo. Melo is proven in the west as the only major superstar on a strong playoff team. Amare is not, and is older and more injury prone. Look to deal him for another PF like Smith, Scola, etc, and see what difference it makes first. I think it is more important to find the right combination of players before trading your best player.

That's certainly one direction to go. We will get some coach who will implement a grinding half court offense, Lin will become a forgotten footnote and we will routinely score 90 points a game with MElo shooting 30% from teh field.

Why would Melo shoot 30 pct from the field. He is a 45 pct shooter for his career. Exactly like Kobe. Just Hatin?

Not hating, exagerating to make a point. The Kobe/Melo comparison falls off on the other side of the ball. Kobe is an elite defender Melo is wannabe adequate.

That is true. But so was Pierce until Rivers got it out of him.

mrKnickShot
Posts: 28157
Alba Posts: 16
Joined: 5/3/2011
Member: #3553

3/12/2012  6:48 PM
loweyecue wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:Maybe we can get Donnie Walsh back to clean up this **** again.

Didn't he hire MDA, make the Melo trade, sign Stat ...?

Which moves that were not his are hurting us?

Lin, Chandler?

The only move that Grunwald made that looks crappy is JR Smith

That would be the Melo trade.

I thought Walsh made that trade.

Walsh made the PR job after Dolan made the trade, tha much was obvious to everyone who was watching.

Well I still believe that it was a good trade for the wrong coach. Just my opinion.

crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
3/12/2012  6:49 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I would look to deal Stoudemire first to see if that makes a difference with Melo. Then if it doesn't work fire Dantoni. Those 2 things need to happen before trading Melo, a young, dynamic scorer who's talent would be extremely difficult to replace. If this was a deep playoff team without him, i would say get him off the team, but we are not a deep playoff team, we are a first round playoff team at best without Melo. Melo is proven in the west as the only major superstar on a strong playoff team. Amare is not, and is older and more injury prone. Look to deal him for another PF like Smith, Scola, etc, and see what difference it makes first. I think it is more important to find the right combination of players before trading your best player.

That's certainly one direction to go. We will get some coach who will implement a grinding half court offense, Lin will become a forgotten footnote and we will routinely score 90 points a game with MElo shooting 30% from teh field.

Why would Melo shoot 30 pct from the field. He is a 45 pct shooter for his career. Exactly like Kobe. Just Hatin?

Not hating, exagerating to make a point. The Kobe/Melo comparison falls off on the other side of the ball. Kobe is an elite defender Melo is wannabe adequate.

That is true. But so was Pierce until Rivers got it out of him.

Pierce is the best argument for a defense of Melo.

Melo could easily be Pierce or better. IF he FREAKING TRIED on both ends AND bought in to the team concept.

¿ △ ?
mrKnickShot
Posts: 28157
Alba Posts: 16
Joined: 5/3/2011
Member: #3553

3/12/2012  6:50 PM
crzymdups wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I would look to deal Stoudemire first to see if that makes a difference with Melo. Then if it doesn't work fire Dantoni. Those 2 things need to happen before trading Melo, a young, dynamic scorer who's talent would be extremely difficult to replace. If this was a deep playoff team without him, i would say get him off the team, but we are not a deep playoff team, we are a first round playoff team at best without Melo. Melo is proven in the west as the only major superstar on a strong playoff team. Amare is not, and is older and more injury prone. Look to deal him for another PF like Smith, Scola, etc, and see what difference it makes first. I think it is more important to find the right combination of players before trading your best player.

That's certainly one direction to go. We will get some coach who will implement a grinding half court offense, Lin will become a forgotten footnote and we will routinely score 90 points a game with MElo shooting 30% from teh field.

Why would Melo shoot 30 pct from the field. He is a 45 pct shooter for his career. Exactly like Kobe. Just Hatin?

Not hating, exagerating to make a point. The Kobe/Melo comparison falls off on the other side of the ball. Kobe is an elite defender Melo is wannabe adequate.

That is true. But so was Pierce until Rivers got it out of him.

Pierce is the best argument for a defense of Melo.

Melo could easily be Pierce or better. IF he FREAKING TRIED on both ends AND bought in to the team concept.

I see him trying on defense - can he do better? Maybe but he gives alot of effort - Stat? Not so much.

MarburyAnd1Crossover
Posts: 23120
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 10/24/2011
Member: #3650

3/12/2012  6:52 PM
The thing about Melo is that he was known for not playing defense way before he stepped the feet on the Garden Hardwoods.

That was his legacy in Denver, that he loafed on D; we must say Karl sucks now, too, because he "couldn't get Melo to drink some water".

Carmelo Anthony is ANTI-BASKETBALL
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
3/12/2012  6:54 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
I see him trying on defense - can he do better? Maybe but he gives alot of effort - Stat? Not so much.

I question the effort. How can anyone prove that. I see him out of position, late to help, bad at protecting the rim (dude is 6'8" 240lbs - Durant and Bron slide over to protect the rim, as do Jeffries and Pierce)

My big beef with Melo is refusing to buy into the team offense.

He doesn't like it - that much is clear. But he's being paid $20 MILLION. Surely he will have input into the next coach. He doesn't like MDA, that is obvious, but isn't his responsibility to TRY TO WIN? TO PLAY TEAM BALL? He is not doing that. He is literally pouting.

Winners don't pout. Losers pout. Melo is reminding me of when MDA asked Marbury to play after the big ZBO/Jamal trades and Marbury refused. The mark of a loser.

¿ △ ?
mrKnickShot
Posts: 28157
Alba Posts: 16
Joined: 5/3/2011
Member: #3553

3/12/2012  6:56 PM
crzymdups wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
I see him trying on defense - can he do better? Maybe but he gives alot of effort - Stat? Not so much.

I question the effort. How can anyone prove that. I see him out of position, late to help, bad at protecting the rim (dude is 6'8" 240lbs - Durant and Bron slide over to protect the rim, as do Jeffries and Pierce)

My big beef with Melo is refusing to buy into the team offense.

He doesn't like it - that much is clear. But he's being paid $20 MILLION. Surely he will have input into the next coach. He doesn't like MDA, that is obvious, but isn't his responsibility to TRY TO WIN? TO PLAY TEAM BALL? He is not doing that. He is literally pouting.

Winners don't pout. Losers pout. Melo is reminding me of when MDA asked Marbury to play after the big ZBO/Jamal trades and Marbury refused. The mark of a loser.

Team defense is definitely and issue - MDA will not help him there.

When has he pouted? Said the wrong things in Press Conferences? Where does all this stuff come from?

crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
3/12/2012  7:04 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
I see him trying on defense - can he do better? Maybe but he gives alot of effort - Stat? Not so much.

I question the effort. How can anyone prove that. I see him out of position, late to help, bad at protecting the rim (dude is 6'8" 240lbs - Durant and Bron slide over to protect the rim, as do Jeffries and Pierce)

My big beef with Melo is refusing to buy into the team offense.

He doesn't like it - that much is clear. But he's being paid $20 MILLION. Surely he will have input into the next coach. He doesn't like MDA, that is obvious, but isn't his responsibility to TRY TO WIN? TO PLAY TEAM BALL? He is not doing that. He is literally pouting.

Winners don't pout. Losers pout. Melo is reminding me of when MDA asked Marbury to play after the big ZBO/Jamal trades and Marbury refused. The mark of a loser.

Team defense is definitely and issue - MDA will not help him there.

When has he pouted? Said the wrong things in Press Conferences? Where does all this stuff come from?

it's his on the court demeanor. he's pouting. read alan hahn's tweets about it. and everyone on the team is basically afraid to straighten him out since he's supposed to be the leader.

in press conferences he kinda sorta says the right things - though when he was asked if he got benched against philly, he said he thought MDA was resting him for tonight's game. which means he either completely missed the point or refuses to see it. like a loser.

¿ △ ?
loweyecue
Posts: 27468
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 11/20/2005
Member: #1037

3/12/2012  8:08 PM
crzymdups wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
I see him trying on defense - can he do better? Maybe but he gives alot of effort - Stat? Not so much.

I question the effort. How can anyone prove that. I see him out of position, late to help, bad at protecting the rim (dude is 6'8" 240lbs - Durant and Bron slide over to protect the rim, as do Jeffries and Pierce)

My big beef with Melo is refusing to buy into the team offense.

He doesn't like it - that much is clear. But he's being paid $20 MILLION. Surely he will have input into the next coach. He doesn't like MDA, that is obvious, but isn't his responsibility to TRY TO WIN? TO PLAY TEAM BALL? He is not doing that. He is literally pouting.

Winners don't pout. Losers pout. Melo is reminding me of when MDA asked Marbury to play after the big ZBO/Jamal trades and Marbury refused. The mark of a loser.

Team defense is definitely and issue - MDA will not help him there.

When has he pouted? Said the wrong things in Press Conferences? Where does all this stuff come from?

it's his on the court demeanor. he's pouting. read alan hahn's tweets about it. and everyone on the team is basically afraid to straighten him out since he's supposed to be the leader.

in press conferences he kinda sorta says the right things - though when he was asked if he got benched against philly, he said he thought MDA was resting him for tonight's game. which means he either completely missed the point or refuses to see it. like a loser.

Not trying to compare the two, but I think Melo has a more reasonable approach than Kobe did earlier. Melo is trying, you can see that. He is also instinctively selfish - you have to see that too. And then he loses faith in what he is trying to learn because he is looking for instant gratification. If he would take the time to analyze some of the Linsanity games in depth he will see what team game can do. It just puts everybody on completely different level. I think he is trying but he either doesn't understand or doesn't appreciate the value of team basketball. That is why he is always half a step to slow, He has to believe in this thing and do it enthusiastically. Not question it every step of the way. Honestly I am not sure he will ever get there.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
loweyecue
Posts: 27468
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 11/20/2005
Member: #1037

3/12/2012  8:10 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:Maybe we can get Donnie Walsh back to clean up this **** again.

Didn't he hire MDA, make the Melo trade, sign Stat ...?

Which moves that were not his are hurting us?

Lin, Chandler?

The only move that Grunwald made that looks crappy is JR Smith

That would be the Melo trade.

I thought Walsh made that trade.

Walsh made the PR job after Dolan made the trade, tha much was obvious to everyone who was watching.

Well I still believe that it was a good trade for the wrong coach. Just my opinion.

I think a lot of people here agree with this. Its the root of our problems.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
mrKnickShot
Posts: 28157
Alba Posts: 16
Joined: 5/3/2011
Member: #3553

3/12/2012  9:16 PM
loweyecue wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:Maybe we can get Donnie Walsh back to clean up this **** again.

Didn't he hire MDA, make the Melo trade, sign Stat ...?

Which moves that were not his are hurting us?

Lin, Chandler?

The only move that Grunwald made that looks crappy is JR Smith

That would be the Melo trade.

I thought Walsh made that trade.

Walsh made the PR job after Dolan made the trade, tha much was obvious to everyone who was watching.

Well I still believe that it was a good trade for the wrong coach. Just my opinion.

I think a lot of people here agree with this. Its the root of our problems.

Thats YOUR opinion and I respect that. There is no way to prove otherwise unless he fails under another coach that caters to his style.

The only problem I have with the deal is that they probably could have gotten away with giving a bit less.

People bitched about the Eli Manning trade for years. Then, they stopped bitching.

crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
3/12/2012  9:27 PM
let's be honest about this, too:

a big reason melo has problems with this system and doesn't seem to like it? conditioning.

¿ △ ?
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/12/2012  9:37 PM
Beautiful pass
once a knick always a knick
can we please trade Melo while there is value before the rest of the league realizes he's the next Vince Carter?

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy