Bippity10 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:Bip, how often is it the coach that push to have his roster upgraded or turned over (Larry Brown). I am not sure where MDA stands on all these moves. I don't think anyone who is not part of the inner circle knows.I will not be okay with a first round weak exit. Maybe that makes me too much of a reactive fan but so be it. I want more. I want playoff wins and I see no reason why it can't happen or should not happen.
Of course I would not want a lateral move but an upgrade to one of the coach-kings.
Lets both hope that we are not having this conversation again in June. That would be really bad.
Okay, let's not include Larry Brown in this conversation because he is unique. But most coaches turn over their roster, get the players they want and then once their core is in place they just tweak and teach their players to grow together. We haven't done that. We haven't tweaked. We've had 3 roster upheavals since the man came here. Then we missed training camp this year. Then we added thre main players(Lin, Baron and Smith) midseason. We need to start giving these rosters time to learn to grow together or else we are never going to win.
Just look at the overhaul of the US olympic team for an example. We had these guys come together in a week, play in the olympics, win by a million and then go back to their lives. But when the competition got better we realized we could not do that. So now we have guys together for a few years so that they can learn to play together. It's no different
If we go out meekly I would be upset as well. Doesn't mean you fire the coach. We can't hav ethis hanging over our coaches head. "win in the playoffs or else". Thats not a good thing. It changes the way the coaches coach, the players play etc. Now if we get massacred, D'Antoni loses the team, etc. then you consider a firing. But short of that, we have to come to grips with the fact that the core of this team has not played together at all this season. They actually just started playing together 2 games ago. It's going to take time to compete with the Miami's of the world. Maybe D'antoni gets the team togehter before then, but it's entirely possible that he doesn't. If you fire him and replace him with anyone but say Phil Jackson or Popovich or someone like that guess what? You are starting over again. Then that coach will need time to work with the team and get them to a championship level. Are we going to hold the "better win in the playoffs thing over that coaches head to? When does it end? That mentality has not won us a title in 40 years.
Spurs, Lakers, Mavs etc find good coaches. support them, stick with them and wait. They win titles every few years. We fire a coach every 3 seasons. Can we try a new model?
Bip, I understand your point regarding stability. What if it is MDA requesting many of these moves because he is not happy with his roster?
Also, as far as the Lakers, they turned over their head coach as often as anyone, until ... they found good ones in PHIL JACKSON and PAT RILEY:
9 Jerry West* 1976–1979 246 145 101 .589 22 8 14 .364 [20]
10 Jack McKinney 1979 14 10 4 .714 — — — — [21]
11 Paul Westhead 1979–1981 161 111 50 .689 19 13 6 .684 1 Championship (1980)[6] [22]
12 Pat Riley 1981–1990 727 533 194 .733 149 102 47 .685 1989–90 NBA Coach of the Year[7]
4 Championships (1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)[6]
One of the top 10 coaches in NBA history[13] [10]
13 Mike Dunleavy 1990–1992 164 101 63 .616 23 13 10 .565 [23]
14 Randy Pfund* 1992–1994 146 66 80 .452 5 2 3 .400 [24]
15 Bill Bertka* 1994 2 1 1 .500 — — — — [25]
16 Magic Johnson* 1994 16 5 11 .313 — — — — [26]
17 Del Harris 1994–1999 340 224 116 .659 36 17 19 .472 1994–95 NBA Coach of the Year[7] [27]
— Bill Bertka* 1999 1 1 0 1.000 — — — — [25]
18 Kurt Rambis 1999 37 24 13 .649 8 3 5 .375 [28]
19 Phil Jackson 1999–2004 410 287 123 .700 92 64 28 .696 3 Championships (2000, 2001, 2002)[6]
One of the top 10 coaches in NBA history[13] [11]
20 Rudy Tomjanovich 2004–2005 43 24 19 .558 — — — — [29]
21 Frank Hamblen 2005 39 10 29 .256 — — — — [30]
— Phil Jacksondagger 2005–2011 492 323 169 .657 89 54 35 .607 2 Championships (2009, 2010)[6]
One of the top 10 coaches in NBA history[13] [11]
22 Mike Brown 2011–present — — — — — — — — [31]
We tried many coaches and then got Pat Riley and boom! Success. Not saying that MDA is not "That Guy". But sometimes it takes franchises many coaching churns to find "That Guy". That is for the GM to decide and I have confidence that (hopefully) Glenn Grunwald makes the right move. I like the job that he has done this year.
Also, you say that this franchise has been unstable because they keep firing their coaches (like the lakers do). Which one of these coaches should they have kept:
19 Don Chaney 2001–2004 184 72 112 .391 — — — — [30]
20 Herb Williams* 2004 1 1 0 1.000 — — — — [11]
21 Lenny Wilkens 2004–2005 81 40 41 .494 4 0 4 .000 One of the top 10 coaches in NBA history[5] [31]
— Herb Williams* 2005 43 16 27 .372 — — — — [11]
22 Larry Brown 2005–2006 82 23 59 .280 — — — — [32]
23 Isiah Thomas 2006–2008 164 56 108 .341 — — — — [33]
's style. But I do value consistency as well as performance. They're playing defense. Don't know if it is Woodson or Chandler or Pringles but frankly I don't care. He's finally got horses so I want to see what he can do. Personally I hope these conversations die off and we can revisit during the 2014 offseason, if needed.