Gymkata wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the Knicks have to worry about one thing the next few years: the Miami Heat. Any path to a title will have to go through LeBron. And I can't think of anyone who has played LeBron tougher in the league than Carmelo Anthony. If we want to hold Carmelo's playoff series history against him, then you have to at least give him his performances against James over the years. There are a lot of reasons not to "trade the bum" (good Lord) but this to me is one of the biggest.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the Knicks have to worry about one thing the next few years: the Miami Heat. Any path to a title will have to go through LeBron. And I can't think of anyone who has played LeBron tougher in the league than Carmelo Anthony. If we want to hold Carmelo's playoff series history against him, then you have to at least give him his performances against James over the years. There are a lot of reasons not to "trade the bum" (good Lord) but this to me is one of the biggest.

Look closely at Lebron's #s against Carmelo. They're very impressive. His ****ty Cavs' teams usually lost to Melo's Nuggets but Lebron played very well against Melo.

So are we back to stats now? Because I thought wins and losses were what we using as the standard.

MS wrote:We would have likely lost to the Nets, Lakers and Minnesota with Carmelo in the lineup and that's a fact.

Glad to see you got your flux capacitor working again.

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the Knicks have to worry about one thing the next few years: the Miami Heat. Any path to a title will have to go through LeBron. And I can't think of anyone who has played LeBron tougher in the league than Carmelo Anthony. If we want to hold Carmelo's playoff series history against him, then you have to at least give him his performances against James over the years. There are a lot of reasons not to "trade the bum" (good Lord) but this to me is one of the biggest.

Look closely at Lebron's #s against Carmelo. They're very impressive. His ****ty Cavs' teams usually lost to Melo's Nuggets but Lebron played very well against Melo.

So are we back to stats now? Because I thought wins and losses were what we using as the standard.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the Knicks have to worry about one thing the next few years: the Miami Heat. Any path to a title will have to go through LeBron. And I can't think of anyone who has played LeBron tougher in the league than Carmelo Anthony. If we want to hold Carmelo's playoff series history against him, then you have to at least give him his performances against James over the years. There are a lot of reasons not to "trade the bum" (good Lord) but this to me is one of the biggest.

Look closely at Lebron's #s against Carmelo. They're very impressive. His ****ty Cavs' teams usually lost to Melo's Nuggets but Lebron played very well against Melo.

So are we back to stats now? Because I thought wins and losses were what we using as the standard.

Uh - wins and losses are statistical but like all other stats have to be interpreted in the context in which they're occurring. If you can point out something specific that's flawed in my interpretation, I'd be happy to discuss it.

I'm not saying Carmelo is better than LeBron. The guys is still the best all-around player in the league. But he tends to play him well. These are the stats from their career matchups (non-eyeball-hurting link here):

Player G W L GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Carmelo Anthony 13 9 4 13 36.8 8.0 18.1 .443 0.7 2.2 .321 5.2 7.0 .736 1.6 4.1 5.7 2.3 0.9 0.8 3.3 3.2 21.8
LeBron James 13 4 9 13 39.5 9.5 20.4 .464 0.9 3.9 .235 5.4 7.8 .693 1.2 5.9 7.2 7.6 1.6 0.7 3.9 2.8 25.2

You are correct. LeBron has done well. But Anthony isn't far off. And his win-loss record is better. For the purposes of this argument, I'm just saying that the Heat are the biggest obstacle for the next few years and Anthony is a great weapon to have. It's simply a point in his favor. And since he's constantly being hit with the "he can't win a playoff series" cudgel, the win and loss record I think is helpful. Did he have a strong Nuggets team? Sure, but if we're going to punk him for losing (with those teams), can't we at least offer a molecule of credit for winning?

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the Knicks have to worry about one thing the next few years: the Miami Heat. Any path to a title will have to go through LeBron. And I can't think of anyone who has played LeBron tougher in the league than Carmelo Anthony. If we want to hold Carmelo's playoff series history against him, then you have to at least give him his performances against James over the years. There are a lot of reasons not to "trade the bum" (good Lord) but this to me is one of the biggest.

Look closely at Lebron's #s against Carmelo. They're very impressive. His ****ty Cavs' teams usually lost to Melo's Nuggets but Lebron played very well against Melo.

So are we back to stats now? Because I thought wins and losses were what we using as the standard.

Uh - wins and losses are statistical but like all other stats have to be interpreted in the context in which they're occurring. If you can point out something specific that's flawed in my interpretation, I'd be happy to discuss it.

I'm not saying Carmelo is better than LeBron. The guys is still the best all-around player in the league. But he tends to play him well. These are the stats from their career matchups (non-eyeball-hurting link here):

Player G W L GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Carmelo Anthony 13 9 4 13 36.8 8.0 18.1 .443 0.7 2.2 .321 5.2 7.0 .736 1.6 4.1 5.7 2.3 0.9 0.8 3.3 3.2 21.8
LeBron James 13 4 9 13 39.5 9.5 20.4 .464 0.9 3.9 .235 5.4 7.8 .693 1.2 5.9 7.2 7.6 1.6 0.7 3.9 2.8 25.2

You are correct. LeBron has done well. But Anthony isn't far off. And his win-loss record is better. For the purposes of this argument, I'm just saying that the Heat are the biggest obstacle for the next few years and Anthony is a great weapon to have. It's simply a point in his favor. And since he's constantly being hit with the "he can't win a playoff series" cudgel, the win and loss record I think is helpful. Did he have a strong Nuggets team? Sure, but if we're going to punk him for losing (with those teams), can't we at least offer a molecule of credit for winning?

We agree that the Heat are a big obstacle. I'd even agree that, given his talents, Melo *could* be a great asset if he'd entirely change his decision-making on the court. I don't see any evidence that he currently *is* a great asset though.
Overall, I'd say those stats are pretty far off. It looks like one guy is doing a lot of scoring and a great job of getting his teammates involved while the other isn't.

Come on, you have to give a little. I'll be the first to admit that Carmelo will need to adjust his ISO style and that he's not the perfect player, but we've already seen him as that weapon in that Heat win last year. There is no dispute that James is a better player. He's the best player in the world. But Carmelo has traditionally played well against him and the scoreboard bears it out. You used the term "motivated denial," whatever that means (I for one am not on Melo's payroll), but if you can't even grant this one nugget--so to speak--who's being intractable?

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the Knicks have to worry about one thing the next few years: the Miami Heat. Any path to a title will have to go through LeBron. And I can't think of anyone who has played LeBron tougher in the league than Carmelo Anthony. If we want to hold Carmelo's playoff series history against him, then you have to at least give him his performances against James over the years. There are a lot of reasons not to "trade the bum" (good Lord) but this to me is one of the biggest.

Look closely at Lebron's #s against Carmelo. They're very impressive. His ****ty Cavs' teams usually lost to Melo's Nuggets but Lebron played very well against Melo.

So are we back to stats now? Because I thought wins and losses were what we using as the standard.

Uh - wins and losses are statistical but like all other stats have to be interpreted in the context in which they're occurring. If you can point out something specific that's flawed in my interpretation, I'd be happy to discuss it.

I'm not saying Carmelo is better than LeBron. The guys is still the best all-around player in the league. But he tends to play him well. These are the stats from their career matchups (non-eyeball-hurting link here):

Player G W L GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Carmelo Anthony 13 9 4 13 36.8 8.0 18.1 .443 0.7 2.2 .321 5.2 7.0 .736 1.6 4.1 5.7 2.3 0.9 0.8 3.3 3.2 21.8
LeBron James 13 4 9 13 39.5 9.5 20.4 .464 0.9 3.9 .235 5.4 7.8 .693 1.2 5.9 7.2 7.6 1.6 0.7 3.9 2.8 25.2

You are correct. LeBron has done well. But Anthony isn't far off. And his win-loss record is better. For the purposes of this argument, I'm just saying that the Heat are the biggest obstacle for the next few years and Anthony is a great weapon to have. It's simply a point in his favor. And since he's constantly being hit with the "he can't win a playoff series" cudgel, the win and loss record I think is helpful. Did he have a strong Nuggets team? Sure, but if we're going to punk him for losing (with those teams), can't we at least offer a molecule of credit for winning?

We agree that the Heat are a big obstacle. I'd even agree that, given his talents, Melo *could* be a great asset if he'd entirely change his decision-making on the court. I don't see any evidence that he currently *is* a great asset though.
Overall, I'd say those stats are pretty far off. It looks like one guy is doing a lot of scoring and a great job of getting his teammates involved while the other isn't.

Come on, you have to give a little. I'll be the first to admit that Carmelo will need to adjust his ISO style and that he's not the perfect player, but we've already seen him as that weapon in that Heat win last year. There is no dispute that James is a better player. He's the best player in the world. But Carmelo has traditionally played well against him and the scoreboard bears it out. You used the term "motivated denial," whatever that means (I for one am not on Melo's payroll), but if you can't even grant this one nugget--so to speak--who's being intractable?

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the Knicks have to worry about one thing the next few years: the Miami Heat. Any path to a title will have to go through LeBron. And I can't think of anyone who has played LeBron tougher in the league than Carmelo Anthony. If we want to hold Carmelo's playoff series history against him, then you have to at least give him his performances against James over the years. There are a lot of reasons not to "trade the bum" (good Lord) but this to me is one of the biggest.

Look closely at Lebron's #s against Carmelo. They're very impressive. His ****ty Cavs' teams usually lost to Melo's Nuggets but Lebron played very well against Melo.

So are we back to stats now? Because I thought wins and losses were what we using as the standard.

Uh - wins and losses are statistical but like all other stats have to be interpreted in the context in which they're occurring. If you can point out something specific that's flawed in my interpretation, I'd be happy to discuss it.

I'm not saying Carmelo is better than LeBron. The guys is still the best all-around player in the league. But he tends to play him well. These are the stats from their career matchups (non-eyeball-hurting link here):

Player G W L GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Carmelo Anthony 13 9 4 13 36.8 8.0 18.1 .443 0.7 2.2 .321 5.2 7.0 .736 1.6 4.1 5.7 2.3 0.9 0.8 3.3 3.2 21.8
LeBron James 13 4 9 13 39.5 9.5 20.4 .464 0.9 3.9 .235 5.4 7.8 .693 1.2 5.9 7.2 7.6 1.6 0.7 3.9 2.8 25.2

You are correct. LeBron has done well. But Anthony isn't far off. And his win-loss record is better. For the purposes of this argument, I'm just saying that the Heat are the biggest obstacle for the next few years and Anthony is a great weapon to have. It's simply a point in his favor. And since he's constantly being hit with the "he can't win a playoff series" cudgel, the win and loss record I think is helpful. Did he have a strong Nuggets team? Sure, but if we're going to punk him for losing (with those teams), can't we at least offer a molecule of credit for winning?

We agree that the Heat are a big obstacle. I'd even agree that, given his talents, Melo *could* be a great asset if he'd entirely change his decision-making on the court. I don't see any evidence that he currently *is* a great asset though.
Overall, I'd say those stats are pretty far off. It looks like one guy is doing a lot of scoring and a great job of getting his teammates involved while the other isn't.

Come on, you have to give a little. I'll be the first to admit that Carmelo will need to adjust his ISO style and that he's not the perfect player, but we've already seen him as that weapon in that Heat win last year. There is no dispute that James is a better player. He's the best player in the world. But Carmelo has traditionally played well against him and the scoreboard bears it out. You used the term "motivated denial," whatever that means (I for one am not on Melo's payroll), but if you can't even grant this one nugget--so to speak--who's being intractable?

I thought I was giving a little by saying that he could be a great asset!

That's some serious praise! Your membership to the Melo Fan Club has been approved. Your decoder ring is in the mail!

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Gymkata wrote:As far as I'm concerned, the Knicks have to worry about one thing the next few years: the Miami Heat. Any path to a title will have to go through LeBron. And I can't think of anyone who has played LeBron tougher in the league than Carmelo Anthony. If we want to hold Carmelo's playoff series history against him, then you have to at least give him his performances against James over the years. There are a lot of reasons not to "trade the bum" (good Lord) but this to me is one of the biggest.

Look closely at Lebron's #s against Carmelo. They're very impressive. His ****ty Cavs' teams usually lost to Melo's Nuggets but Lebron played very well against Melo.

So are we back to stats now? Because I thought wins and losses were what we using as the standard.

Uh - wins and losses are statistical but like all other stats have to be interpreted in the context in which they're occurring. If you can point out something specific that's flawed in my interpretation, I'd be happy to discuss it.

I'm not saying Carmelo is better than LeBron. The guys is still the best all-around player in the league. But he tends to play him well. These are the stats from their career matchups (non-eyeball-hurting link here):

Player G W L GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
Carmelo Anthony 13 9 4 13 36.8 8.0 18.1 .443 0.7 2.2 .321 5.2 7.0 .736 1.6 4.1 5.7 2.3 0.9 0.8 3.3 3.2 21.8
LeBron James 13 4 9 13 39.5 9.5 20.4 .464 0.9 3.9 .235 5.4 7.8 .693 1.2 5.9 7.2 7.6 1.6 0.7 3.9 2.8 25.2

You are correct. LeBron has done well. But Anthony isn't far off. And his win-loss record is better. For the purposes of this argument, I'm just saying that the Heat are the biggest obstacle for the next few years and Anthony is a great weapon to have. It's simply a point in his favor. And since he's constantly being hit with the "he can't win a playoff series" cudgel, the win and loss record I think is helpful. Did he have a strong Nuggets team? Sure, but if we're going to punk him for losing (with those teams), can't we at least offer a molecule of credit for winning?

We agree that the Heat are a big obstacle. I'd even agree that, given his talents, Melo *could* be a great asset if he'd entirely change his decision-making on the court. I don't see any evidence that he currently *is* a great asset though.
Overall, I'd say those stats are pretty far off. It looks like one guy is doing a lot of scoring and a great job of getting his teammates involved while the other isn't.

Come on, you have to give a little. I'll be the first to admit that Carmelo will need to adjust his ISO style and that he's not the perfect player, but we've already seen him as that weapon in that Heat win last year. There is no dispute that James is a better player. He's the best player in the world. But Carmelo has traditionally played well against him and the scoreboard bears it out. You used the term "motivated denial," whatever that means (I for one am not on Melo's payroll), but if you can't even grant this one nugget--so to speak--who's being intractable?

I thought I was giving a little by saying that he could be a great asset!

That's some serious praise! Your membership to the Melo Fan Club has been approved. Your decoder ring is in the mail!

Bonn1997 wrote:

misterearl wrote:It Ain't That Deep

Bonn1997 wrote:Funny list. I'm not sure what your point is though.

There are three points to consider:

1. Carmelo is ours. His main flaw is that he tried too hard to do what he does best.

2. It ain't my money. Why did Berman go out of his way to mention what Carmelo and Anthony are paid? To build resentment.

3. It's only basketball.

If Jeremy Lin, and Carmelo, teach us anything as fans... it is that the game should be FUN.

Enjoy.

The last few games have been a lot of fun. If you could find fun in the games before that, then I envy your "fun-finding" abilities.

They were awful, no doubt. In fact, this was my typical reaction to watching those games:

But I attribute that horror to a lack of a point guard more than anything else.

misterearl wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If you could find fun in the games before that, then I envy your "fun-finding" abilities.

The Boston season opener was fun.