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fire d'antoni. right now.
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JrZyHuStLa
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1/21/2012  1:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2012  1:31 PM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:My math might be wrong ( long day, great craft beer) but I believe D'Antoni has only won 36% of his games when Nash wasn't his point guard. You can come up with some legitimate excuses for part of that record but it spans 5 years. When you consider Boris Diaw's recent interview when he focused on the brilliance of Steve Nash it holds more weight.

Your hate for him has transgresses beyond personal to the level of religion. Do you think MJ didn't coach the Bulls when he was on the floor with them? Stockton? Magic? Heck even Derrick rose does the same thing, this is what great players do.


5 years 36% winning percentage is a significant body of work in my opinion. Also, while I have never liked the hire because I think the philosophy was wrong, I do think management chose to put D'Antoni in a position where he can't be successful. Hate is a very strong word. I can't think of anyone that I hate, I have disagreed fundamentally how D'Antoni approaches coaching and how he wants his team to play. That isn't hate but I desperately want the team to move on. Also, if you asked me if I respected his character and work ethic I would give you a different answer.

You choose to see only the losing part of the record and explain away the winning part. And this then is fair assessment of his work? You are better than this my good man.

He won at an amazing rate with Nash and an assortment of all stars. What he did worked with that roster. However, he was in a unique situation. If Riley came to the Knicks in 91 and expected Mark Jackson to run a showtime offense I don't think he would have been successful.

so why is it a surprise that we are not successful right now without a PG?

Everyone here knows this team needs a point guard, but that's not the sole reason this team is 6-9.

At the end of the day, this team has 2 perennial all stars, regardless of their positions, and they should be somewhere along 9-6, or 10-5. But they're not.

They're lost and unprepared on a nightly basis.

That falls on the head coach.
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martin
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1/21/2012  1:38 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:My math might be wrong ( long day, great craft beer) but I believe D'Antoni has only won 36% of his games when Nash wasn't his point guard. You can come up with some legitimate excuses for part of that record but it spans 5 years. When you consider Boris Diaw's recent interview when he focused on the brilliance of Steve Nash it holds more weight.

Your hate for him has transgresses beyond personal to the level of religion. Do you think MJ didn't coach the Bulls when he was on the floor with them? Stockton? Magic? Heck even Derrick rose does the same thing, this is what great players do.


5 years 36% winning percentage is a significant body of work in my opinion. Also, while I have never liked the hire because I think the philosophy was wrong, I do think management chose to put D'Antoni in a position where he can't be successful. Hate is a very strong word. I can't think of anyone that I hate, I have disagreed fundamentally how D'Antoni approaches coaching and how he wants his team to play. That isn't hate but I desperately want the team to move on. Also, if you asked me if I respected his character and work ethic I would give you a different answer.

You choose to see only the losing part of the record and explain away the winning part. And this then is fair assessment of his work? You are better than this my good man.

He won at an amazing rate with Nash and an assortment of all stars. What he did worked with that roster. However, he was in a unique situation. If Riley came to the Knicks in 91 and expected Mark Jackson to run a showtime offense I don't think he would have been successful.

so why is it a surprise that we are not successful right now without a PG?

Everyone here knows this team needs a point guard, but that's not the sole reason this team is 6-9.

At the end of the day, this team has 2 perennial all stars, regardless of their positions, and they should be somewhere along 9-6, or 10-5. But they're not.

They're lost and unprepared on a nightly basis.

That falls on the head coach.

But a lot of the being lost is due to the fact that TD and Shump are RUNNING the team? And that they have no outside shooters?

There is some discipline that the coaching staff can certainly add. But how many times can you ask Amare to box out and defend? Or ask Melo to not shoot when he has 2 guys on him?

I like to hold players more accountable.

That switching crap... that's on the coaches. But it could be a cover up for Amare, unfortunately.

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CrushAlot
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1/21/2012  1:48 PM
smackeddog wrote:Very interesting video from that suns game:

http://www.msg.com/our-teams/knicks/the-knicks-fix-executing-in-the-final-minutes-120-1.81405

Has Melo completely tuned out D'Antoni? He doesn't even acknowledge him when they're speaking one to one- D'Antoni even has to keep asking if he understands the play and he still doesn't say a word or make eye contact.

Also is Shumpert deaf? because he doesn't do either of the two simple things he's told to on those two plays.

I don't like D'Antoni and look forward to him being replaced next year, but to be fair, aside from last year he has never PG's or even players capable of executing the most basic plays he calls- that's been ongoing.

Shump should have been benched for the next game after ignoring those directions. I don't know what to say about Melo but he certainly didn't look happy or interested.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
gunsnewing
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1/21/2012  2:19 PM
you can get a coach to get get melo & Amare to play D. Paul Pierce & Ray Allen weren't known as good defenders until Doc made them play D. The Knicks can talk about playing defense til they are blue in the face but it will only truly happen when the philosophy of them team is changed. MDAs philosophy is SSOL. You don't all of a sudden become a defensive coach and adapt to the talent of your team. Unless your name is pat riley and you are a real coach and not a 1 trick pony
nyk4ever
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1/21/2012  2:26 PM
gunsnewing wrote:you can get a coach to get get melo & Amare to play D. Paul Pierce & Ray Allen weren't known as good defenders until Doc made them play D. The Knicks can talk about playing defense til they are blue in the face but it will only truly happen when the philosophy of them team is changed. MDAs philosophy is SSOL. You don't all of a sudden become a defensive coach and adapt to the talent of your team. Unless your name is pat riley and you are a real coach and not a 1 trick pony

if doc is so great at getting his players to play defense, what happened in orlando? make no mistake about it, boston's success falls on kevin garnett. you need to have that superstar player get the other players to buy into a championship philosophy and that is something garnett has taken with him since he was a pro. melo and amear aren't that type of a player and sure they can talk about playing defense but no coach is going to get them to really play it. they need to be pushed by another player.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
raven
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1/21/2012  2:37 PM
gunsnewing wrote:you can get a coach to get get melo & Amare to play D. Paul Pierce & Ray Allen weren't known as good defenders until Doc made them play D. The Knicks can talk about playing defense til they are blue in the face but it will only truly happen when the philosophy of them team is changed. MDAs philosophy is SSOL. You don't all of a sudden become a defensive coach and adapt to the talent of your team. Unless your name is pat riley and you are a real coach and not a 1 trick pony

...And until they were teamed with Garnett who'S one of the best team defender in league history.
Uptown
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1/21/2012  2:38 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2012  2:38 PM
nyk4ever wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:you can get a coach to get get melo & Amare to play D. Paul Pierce & Ray Allen weren't known as good defenders until Doc made them play D. The Knicks can talk about playing defense til they are blue in the face but it will only truly happen when the philosophy of them team is changed. MDAs philosophy is SSOL. You don't all of a sudden become a defensive coach and adapt to the talent of your team. Unless your name is pat riley and you are a real coach and not a 1 trick pony

if doc is so great at getting his players to play defense, what happened in orlando? make no mistake about it, boston's success falls on kevin garnett. you need to have that superstar player get the other players to buy into a championship philosophy and that is something garnett has taken with him since he was a pro. melo and amear aren't that type of a player and sure they can talk about playing defense but no coach is going to get them to really play it. they need to be pushed by another player.

It falls on KG and Thibbs. Thibbs incorporated an effective defensive system. Our system is middle-school basketball-esque. The defensive philosophy has to change immediately because these mismatches are killing us. None of the coaches we have sitting on the bench or behind are noticing this? Or are they too stubborn to change?! I see Amare giving half-ass efforts on D at times, but you cant pin the blame soley on the players when the system is broken.

Whats the point of having an allstar-defensive center in Chandler if he's stuck guarding Nash/Jennings and the like because of a switch? Shump has proven to be pretty good at harassing pg's our top, but whats the use if he's being told to switch and has to try and guard centers in the post because of the switching?!
holfresh
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1/21/2012  2:44 PM
JCrusher wrote:
holfresh wrote:
JCrusher wrote:Even though i also think D'antoni should go you cant blame walsh for hiring him. I mean people may not want to admit it but he was a successful coach in phoenix. So can't blame walsh for that. Last years team fit mike better because we were very up tempo and younger. We just needs a few pieces and a center. then dolan ****ed it up so we are left with two guy who can only play half court offense and aren't even doing that

Sure you can...The Knick through out it's history has been known for it's defensive minded teams...How do you bring a guy in here who can give two shets about defense...He brought in the shiny name...

Remember, this debate didn't just start...It began the moment MDA was hired...

once again im not a fan of d'antoni and i never said it was a brilliant move but for the most part donnie did a good job getting this team out of the slary cap hell and was just starting to get this team back when dolan ****ed it up. so for the 10000th time it was a judgment call move that worked better with the guys we had last year than this year but i agree we need a more defensive coach but i doubt our two stars would buy in

I've been saying this to a friend since the trade went down..It's not about X's and O's anymore when you have guys like Melo and STAT...The cats needs to be challenged mentally...They need a coach who they respect and who would question their manhood...Someone of the ilk of Doc Rivers...I thought if Mark Jackson got hired years ago, he too might become that but who knows now...MDA just isn't that dude...

I'm not blaming Donnie...Who doesn't fall in love with the girl with the blonde hair...
gunsnewing
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1/21/2012  2:54 PM
I agree the philosophy is the main issue. They can talk about playing defense til they are blue in the face but it takes more than having the players put their hands up and switch every play. That's the kind of defense you see on a play ground where their is no coach and the players are on their own. Coach needs to teach defense and be able to motivate. 2 things no one on this coaching staff can seem to accomplish. Not even last year when we were a .500 team that only won when shots were falling. When they weren't they were blown out. It's all or nothing with this system unless it is being run by a hall of famer like Nash.
holfresh
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1/21/2012  3:01 PM
gunsnewing wrote:I agree the philosophy is the main issue. They can talk about playing defense til they are blue in the face but it takes more than having the players put their hands up and switch every play. That's the kind of defense you see on a play ground where their is no coach and the players are on their own. Coach needs to teach defense and be able to motivate. 2 things no one on this coaching staff can seem to accomplish. Not even last year when we were a .500 team that only won when shots were falling. When they weren't they were blown out. It's all or nothing with this system unless it is being run by a hall of famer like Nash.

This is what guys Riley and Phil Jax do...Get guys to buy into playing defense and making stops...Get ego to mesh and sacrifice...Doc Rivers is there too...This team has some big boys on it...We need a big boy coach...
MarburyAnd1Crossover
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1/21/2012  3:01 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2012  3:03 PM
Philosophy is not the issue.

The issue is that the guys in charge of the floor product have been consistently undermined by Fat Dummy Jimmy Dolan.

First he throws the marbles under Donnie's feet with that ridiculous Melo deal, then he undermines Mike D'Antoni with that crazy Woodson hiring.

Mike came here for the money, and I'm sure he knew he was in for some ****, but I don't think he could imagine the true extent of the **** he was walking into.

I think it's best Mike is fired, for Mike's sake. Really, a guy of Mike's character does not deserve nor belong working for Fat Dummy Jimmy Dolan.

Phil Jackson, I don't think he is stupid enough to take the same risk Mike took by coming here.

I guarantee you this franchise is doomed so long as Fat Dummy Jimmy Dolan is pulling the strings, strings he has no business pulling in the first place.

It's the fans' misfortune that he does not care about hockey but seems to love basketball.

Carmelo Anthony is ANTI-BASKETBALL
Knicksfan
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1/21/2012  3:18 PM
smackeddog wrote:Very interesting video from that suns game:

http://www.msg.com/our-teams/knicks/the-knicks-fix-executing-in-the-final-minutes-120-1.81405

Has Melo completely tuned out D'Antoni? He doesn't even acknowledge him when they're speaking one to one- D'Antoni even has to keep asking if he understands the play and he still doesn't say a word or make eye contact.

Also is Shumpert deaf? because he doesn't do either of the two simple things he's told to on those two plays.

I don't like D'Antoni and look forward to him being replaced next year, but to be fair, aside from last year he has never PG's or even players capable of executing the most basic plays he calls- that's been ongoing.

That video is very telling and shows why some in the media are already saying this time it isn't on D'Antoni but on the players.

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holfresh
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1/21/2012  3:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2012  3:35 PM
Knicksfan wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Very interesting video from that suns game:

http://www.msg.com/our-teams/knicks/the-knicks-fix-executing-in-the-final-minutes-120-1.81405

Has Melo completely tuned out D'Antoni? He doesn't even acknowledge him when they're speaking one to one- D'Antoni even has to keep asking if he understands the play and he still doesn't say a word or make eye contact.

Also is Shumpert deaf? because he doesn't do either of the two simple things he's told to on those two plays.

I don't like D'Antoni and look forward to him being replaced next year, but to be fair, aside from last year he has never PG's or even players capable of executing the most basic plays he calls- that's been ongoing.

That video is very telling and shows why some in the media are already saying this time it isn't on D'Antoni but on the players.

Those two instances he had a rookie making decisions on those important plays....They may not have been in the video but MDA needed to make sure Shump understood what he needed to do...Clearly Shump had no clue...

Also what kind of play is that where Melo suppose trail Shump for the flip back with three defenders around Shump
MarburyAnd1Crossover
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1/21/2012  3:35 PM
You hire a guy who coaches men and you give him the biggest child of all, Carmelo Anthony.

What can you say?

Carmelo Anthony is ANTI-BASKETBALL
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1/21/2012  3:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2012  3:41 PM
Wrong Thread
NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
martin
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1/21/2012  3:39 PM
holfresh wrote:Those two instances he had a rookie making decisions on those important plays....They may not have been in the video but MDA needed to make sure Shump understood what he needed to do...Clearly Shump had no clue...

Alan was saying that just before this all happened he talked with both Shump and we saw that he talked with Melo.

We have Shump and TD running the team and we wonder why we can get scores?

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1/21/2012  5:31 PM
Remember before the season all that hate by those conspirators called "ESPN" and "Sports Illustrated" who many complain have it in for the Knicks?

What I see wrong with the team is not the coaching.

ITs the players failing to execute.

You can't "Fix it now", not by bringing in a new philosophy and expecting the low IQ team we have would adapt.

What do we do? Slow the offense down?

You build a sports car and then wonder why it won't hold a family of 6 and its cargo?

Fans rejoiced the hiring of Woodson and the toughness of Tyson.

And it got worse.

Tyson is part of the problem on defense. I started a thread "Tyson Talk" to discuss x's and o's and nobody want to recognize his presence hurts the team like Shaq did with the suns. He hurts Amare's space.

Tyson's salary also eats salary and the inability to gain depth.

I like Tyson, but while we were all celebrating his Dallas championship we seemed to forget the rest of the team.

Many were like "all we need to do is fill out the rest of the roster".......like this was some easy task.

"grunwald for exec of the year".......Brilliant, just brilliant!

Ok, so what is the answer?

Change the god damn channel!
holfresh
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1/21/2012  5:40 PM
Here is the thing Nalod ..All these guys you call low BB IQ players has had success elsewhere due in big part to their play...You can't tell my Tyson is the problem when Dallas won a ring in part due to him...Melo led a 50 win team for seven consecutive seasons...STAT we all saw first hand what he can do...Some one has to step now and do their job...The time for free passes are over...
JrZyHuStLa
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1/21/2012  8:50 PM
martin wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:My math might be wrong ( long day, great craft beer) but I believe D'Antoni has only won 36% of his games when Nash wasn't his point guard. You can come up with some legitimate excuses for part of that record but it spans 5 years. When you consider Boris Diaw's recent interview when he focused on the brilliance of Steve Nash it holds more weight.

Your hate for him has transgresses beyond personal to the level of religion. Do you think MJ didn't coach the Bulls when he was on the floor with them? Stockton? Magic? Heck even Derrick rose does the same thing, this is what great players do.


5 years 36% winning percentage is a significant body of work in my opinion. Also, while I have never liked the hire because I think the philosophy was wrong, I do think management chose to put D'Antoni in a position where he can't be successful. Hate is a very strong word. I can't think of anyone that I hate, I have disagreed fundamentally how D'Antoni approaches coaching and how he wants his team to play. That isn't hate but I desperately want the team to move on. Also, if you asked me if I respected his character and work ethic I would give you a different answer.

You choose to see only the losing part of the record and explain away the winning part. And this then is fair assessment of his work? You are better than this my good man.

He won at an amazing rate with Nash and an assortment of all stars. What he did worked with that roster. However, he was in a unique situation. If Riley came to the Knicks in 91 and expected Mark Jackson to run a showtime offense I don't think he would have been successful.

so why is it a surprise that we are not successful right now without a PG?

Everyone here knows this team needs a point guard, but that's not the sole reason this team is 6-9.

At the end of the day, this team has 2 perennial all stars, regardless of their positions, and they should be somewhere along 9-6, or 10-5. But they're not.

They're lost and unprepared on a nightly basis.

That falls on the head coach.


I like to hold players more accountable.

So then what do you hold Mike D'antoni accountable for? Obviously he is doing SOMETHING wrong.

In your opinion, what is it?
eViL
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1/21/2012  8:51 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:My math might be wrong ( long day, great craft beer) but I believe D'Antoni has only won 36% of his games when Nash wasn't his point guard. You can come up with some legitimate excuses for part of that record but it spans 5 years. When you consider Boris Diaw's recent interview when he focused on the brilliance of Steve Nash it holds more weight.

Your hate for him has transgresses beyond personal to the level of religion. Do you think MJ didn't coach the Bulls when he was on the floor with them? Stockton? Magic? Heck even Derrick rose does the same thing, this is what great players do.


5 years 36% winning percentage is a significant body of work in my opinion. Also, while I have never liked the hire because I think the philosophy was wrong, I do think management chose to put D'Antoni in a position where he can't be successful. Hate is a very strong word. I can't think of anyone that I hate, I have disagreed fundamentally how D'Antoni approaches coaching and how he wants his team to play. That isn't hate but I desperately want the team to move on. Also, if you asked me if I respected his character and work ethic I would give you a different answer.

You choose to see only the losing part of the record and explain away the winning part. And this then is fair assessment of his work? You are better than this my good man.

He won at an amazing rate with Nash and an assortment of all stars. What he did worked with that roster. However, he was in a unique situation. If Riley came to the Knicks in 91 and expected Mark Jackson to run a showtime offense I don't think he would have been successful.

so why is it a surprise that we are not successful right now without a PG?

Everyone here knows this team needs a point guard, but that's not the sole reason this team is 6-9.

At the end of the day, this team has 2 perennial all stars, regardless of their positions, and they should be somewhere along 9-6, or 10-5. But they're not.

They're lost and unprepared on a nightly basis.

That falls on the head coach.


I like to hold players more accountable.

So then what do you hold Mike D'antoni accountable for? Obviously he is doing SOMETHING wrong.

In your opinion, what is it?

coaching in ny.

check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
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fire d'antoni. right now.
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