franco12 wrote:

skeng wrote:It's ridiculous how anti MDA you guys are. Ever since he came, it's been constant criticism. How can the league respect this guy, but us knick fans can't?

Wrong. I defended him when he was hired. I liked him, because he seemed open, funny- able to laugh a bit at himself.

However, I think seeing him up close now for close to four years, not playing Douglas when all he had to do was develop the rookies and lose games, winning just enough games not to get draft position his first year.

All of it adds up, and I think it can be summed up as follows:

He's a European Coach.

Nothing wrong with that, but he doesn't fit.

I think he's very intelligent, and likes his players to be smart. But athletic players that might be intellectually challenged, he has no use for them, no matter what they can bring.

He doesn't appear to motivate guys, and seems instead to like to sit back, and let the players 'play'.

He hasn't adjusted one iota to the tools & strengths of his players.

His defensive philosophy allows opposing teams to come in, and light us up, often jumping out to 20 point leads in the first quarter, putting up 30-40 points on us.

Give me Don Chaney! Lets give Herb Williams a shot.

This group needs fundamentals. The offense needs to be spelled out in predictable, Hubie Brown fashion.

So it's the yoots not playing game again. TD has averaged around 20 minutes per game since he was drafted. 24 his second year. Adequate playing time imo. Now, people want to cut his head off. Gallo and Wil played plentifully. Fields and Moz too. Shump now. And then on the other hand, you have Crush criticizing the lack of results. I mean, you don't bring in a coach coming off those succesful seasons in Phoenix to tank the season - can't fault MDA for having a little more pride than that. At least not in my opinion.

So we had 4 years of MDA where at first, he doesn't fit because he doesn't want to tank, and later he doesn't fit because we have an incomplete team.

As far as his defensive philosophy goes it has so far featured D Lee, DuDu, later STAT (probably the most disinterested star in the history of basketball on the defensive end), and no centers of any quality until this season.

Phil Jax is chill and all laid back at games too. And he hasn't played anything but triangle offense.

I will agree with you on the lack of motivational prowess of MDA. And his tendencies to not hold players responsible for shyt play and yanking them out. And his timing of timeouts can be a little off, yes. Way off sometimes. But he wants to play an uptempo game, and I can understand him wanting to up the tempo by keeping the guys playing. But I guess that can hurt us at times.

All in all I guess my standpoint with MDA is that no way we fire him at this time, it's just ridiculous imo. Go ahead and change coach in the offseason, please. But no more mid season mix ups.

nykshaknbake wrote:

eViL wrote:

skeng wrote:I just don't see how firing our coach solves anything. It's still on the players to give the effort and willingness to pass the ball and trust one another. And if it's a question of respect for the coach, then I'm not sure I want to root for these players.

it satisfies the blood lust of the fans. that's about it.

That's the funny thing. Critics of MDA point to his many deficiencies and lack of results. Supporters of MDA can't do the opposite but only attack the critics, as if by doing so they prove MDA is a good coach. It's laughable.

i've spelled out why i don't blame him in other posts in this thread. i don't know why, but no one is responding to it.. so i'll just repost it again. in case it is somehow getting lost.

eViL wrote:i don't know why, but to me, it's obvious that this team is not executing the way D'Antoni wants them to. to others, it must be D'Antoni's gameplan for the offense to grind to a screeching halt as the game progresses and gets tighter.

i dug up an old thread from last year where this team was having the exact same problems. instead of Melo and Amare not meshing, it was Amare and Felton.

it's gonna come, people. Melo has to break out of his bad habits of being a ball stopper. i bet that if there were a statistic for how many of a player's FG's were unassisted, Melo would lead the league. he just doesn't get his points in the flow.

i've played with guys like that. it's usually the most skilled guy who, for whatever reason, call it ego or pride, can't bring himself to let others help him score. it's like every score is a message to the world: "i can do this on my own."

the beauty of this rough start is: Melo and Amare can both see that if they don't let the offense help them score points, they won't win. what we are seeing now is not what the coach wants. it's what the players are doing habitually.

i expect these guys to eventually succumb to the offense. put their pride aside. and accept that the offense can help you score.

it will be a brilliant revelation. and when it happens, we will commit less turnovers, and hit more shots. and in turn, our defense will improve even more because there will be less transition baskets against us.

if this team is still playing like this halfway through the season, then yeah, maybe we have a major problem.

doesn't look like attacked anyone in this post. just stated my opinion and the reason behind it. what else can i do?

these guys are not losing because they're not giving effort. the problems here are more about chemistry and i'm not ready to say they can't figure it out. maybe others are, but apparently my window for this team is larger. to each their own.

i, too, thought they'd have it together sooner, but, to me, they still have a chance.

franco12 wrote:

eViL wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

eViL wrote:

skeng wrote:I just don't see how firing our coach solves anything. It's still on the players to give the effort and willingness to pass the ball and trust one another. And if it's a question of respect for the coach, then I'm not sure I want to root for these players.

it satisfies the blood lust of the fans. that's about it.

That's the funny thing. Critics of MDA point to his many deficiencies and lack of results. Supporters of MDA can't do the opposite but only attack the critics, as if by doing so they prove MDA is a good coach. It's laughable.

i've spelled out why i don't blame him in other posts in this thread. i don't know why, but no one is responding to it.. so i'll just repost it again. in case it is somehow getting lost.

eViL wrote:i don't know why, but to me, it's obvious that this team is not executing the way D'Antoni wants them to. to others, it must be D'Antoni's gameplan for the offense to grind to a screeching halt as the game progresses and gets tighter.

i dug up an old thread from last year where this team was having the exact same problems. instead of Melo and Amare not meshing, it was Amare and Felton.

it's gonna come, people. Melo has to break out of his bad habits of being a ball stopper. i bet that if there were a statistic for how many of a player's FG's were unassisted, Melo would lead the league. he just doesn't get his points in the flow.

i've played with guys like that. it's usually the most skilled guy who, for whatever reason, call it ego or pride, can't bring himself to let others help him score. it's like every score is a message to the world: "i can do this on my own."

the beauty of this rough start is: Melo and Amare can both see that if they don't let the offense help them score points, they won't win. what we are seeing now is not what the coach wants. it's what the players are doing habitually.

i expect these guys to eventually succumb to the offense. put their pride aside. and accept that the offense can help you score.

it will be a brilliant revelation. and when it happens, we will commit less turnovers, and hit more shots. and in turn, our defense will improve even more because there will be less transition baskets against us.

if this team is still playing like this halfway through the season, then yeah, maybe we have a major problem.

doesn't look like attacked anyone in this post. just stated my opinion and the reason behind it. what else can i do?

I'll respond. At some point, in my opinion, D'Antoni has to get his hands dirty, and get in his players faces to get them back on the same page.

He's not making adjustments, unless having Melo go more 1 on 1 is the adjustment.

I think he is to laid back/hands off for this talented, but with warts, squad.

i agree. he's a laid back dude. that's worked in the past. it's not working now. but there's no good alternative to him at this moment. firing d'antoni now would be the worse thing this franchise can do. with all of the turmoil surrounding the various player changes, a coaching change on top of that could be poisonous to the season.

if this is truly about reaching the players who can't be reached by d'antoni's laid back style, then there is only one coach for the job: the zen master. no one else available has that track record of meshing stars and getting players to put egos aside and play like a team. he's not gonna join the team mid-season.

and honestly, if he's interested, Knicks will sign him no matter how well d'antoni does. so it's not like keeping d'antoni could hurt our chances.

eViL wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

eViL wrote:

skeng wrote:I just don't see how firing our coach solves anything. It's still on the players to give the effort and willingness to pass the ball and trust one another. And if it's a question of respect for the coach, then I'm not sure I want to root for these players.

it satisfies the blood lust of the fans. that's about it.

That's the funny thing. Critics of MDA point to his many deficiencies and lack of results. Supporters of MDA can't do the opposite but only attack the critics, as if by doing so they prove MDA is a good coach. It's laughable.

i've spelled out why i don't blame him in other posts in this thread. i don't know why, but no one is responding to it.. so i'll just repost it again. in case it is somehow getting lost.

eViL wrote:i don't know why, but to me, it's obvious that this team is not executing the way D'Antoni wants them to. to others, it must be D'Antoni's gameplan for the offense to grind to a screeching halt as the game progresses and gets tighter.

Wanting a team to play fluidly and move the ball and get easy baskets is a universal goal. I do too. Doesn't make me a good NBA coach.

i dug up an old thread from last year where this team was having the exact same problems. instead of Melo and Amare not meshing, it was Amare and Felton.

it's gonna come, people. Melo has to break out of his bad habits of being a ball stopper. i bet that if there were a statistic for how many of a player's FG's were unassisted, Melo would lead the league. he just doesn't get his points in the flow.

i've played with guys like that. it's usually the most skilled guy who, for whatever reason, call it ego or pride, can't bring himself to let others help him score. it's like every score is a message to the world: "i can do this on my own."

the beauty of this rough start is: Melo and Amare can both see that if they don't let the offense help them score points, they won't win. what we are seeing now is not what the coach wants. it's what the players are doing habitually.

All this is assumption and supposition. I don't even think it's very reflective of what we've seen. Melo is the only one that will try to create. If he tries to move the ball and it comes back to him in a bad situation. Melo and Stat are veteran ball players. I doubt this is some new experience that they are now realizing they have to play as a team. Again it's not what the coach wants. I'm sure he would love them to play like Steve Nash directed his Suns team to in happier days. I do too. I'm sure Isiah Thomas would have too. What has he accomplished here?

i expect these guys to eventually succumb to the offense. put their pride aside. and accept that the offense can help you score.

it will be a brilliant revelation. and when it happens, we will commit less turnovers, and hit more shots. and in turn, our defense will improve even more because there will be less transition baskets against us.

if this team is still playing like this halfway through the season, then yeah, maybe we have a major problem.

I'm sure this will happen to an extent like it does with every team. But this team is underachieving now has underachieved in the past and will continue to do so with this coach.

doesn't look like attacked anyone in this post. just stated my opinion and the reason behind it. what else can i do?
No, you didn't. But look at some of the thread titles and posts and you get the idea.

nykshaknbake wrote:

eViL wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

eViL wrote:

skeng wrote:I just don't see how firing our coach solves anything. It's still on the players to give the effort and willingness to pass the ball and trust one another. And if it's a question of respect for the coach, then I'm not sure I want to root for these players.

it satisfies the blood lust of the fans. that's about it.

That's the funny thing. Critics of MDA point to his many deficiencies and lack of results. Supporters of MDA can't do the opposite but only attack the critics, as if by doing so they prove MDA is a good coach. It's laughable.

i've spelled out why i don't blame him in other posts in this thread. i don't know why, but no one is responding to it.. so i'll just repost it again. in case it is somehow getting lost.

eViL wrote:i don't know why, but to me, it's obvious that this team is not executing the way D'Antoni wants them to. to others, it must be D'Antoni's gameplan for the offense to grind to a screeching halt as the game progresses and gets tighter.

Wanting a team to play fluidly and move the ball and get easy baskets is a universal goal. I do too. Doesn't make me a good NBA coach.

i dug up an old thread from last year where this team was having the exact same problems. instead of Melo and Amare not meshing, it was Amare and Felton.

it's gonna come, people. Melo has to break out of his bad habits of being a ball stopper. i bet that if there were a statistic for how many of a player's FG's were unassisted, Melo would lead the league. he just doesn't get his points in the flow.

i've played with guys like that. it's usually the most skilled guy who, for whatever reason, call it ego or pride, can't bring himself to let others help him score. it's like every score is a message to the world: "i can do this on my own."

the beauty of this rough start is: Melo and Amare can both see that if they don't let the offense help them score points, they won't win. what we are seeing now is not what the coach wants. it's what the players are doing habitually.

All this is assumption and supposition. I don't even think it's very reflective of what we've seen. Melo is the only one that will try to create. If he tries to move the ball and it comes back to him in a bad situation. Melo and Stat are veteran ball players. I doubt this is some new experience that they are now realizing they have to play as a team. Again it's not what the coach wants. I'm sure he would love them to play like Steve Nash directed his Suns team to in happier days. I do too. I'm sure Isiah Thomas would have too. What has he accomplished here?

i expect these guys to eventually succumb to the offense. put their pride aside. and accept that the offense can help you score.

it will be a brilliant revelation. and when it happens, we will commit less turnovers, and hit more shots. and in turn, our defense will improve even more because there will be less transition baskets against us.

if this team is still playing like this halfway through the season, then yeah, maybe we have a major problem.

I'm sure this will happen to an extent like it does with every team. But this team is underachieving now has underachieved in the past and will continue to do so with this coach.

doesn't look like attacked anyone in this post. just stated my opinion and the reason behind it. what else can i do?
No, you didn't. But look at some of the thread titles and posts and you get the idea.

you said that D'Antoni supporters do nothing to explain their support other than attack people. i only meant to show you a post in which i supported D'Antoni based on my observations and some speculation on the reasons things haven't clicked yet. last year, it eventually clicked and the offense got better. Amare and Melo are just not scoring in the flow of the offense. that's the entire problem. it's having a huge impact, but i think it will be solved. you can't say it won't be. i can't prove it will. we just have to let it play out.

i'm not trying to claim expert status. i get it, you think his track record with the Knicks speaks for itself. i think there's a context that makes D'Antoni a very hard coach to judge. he has gone through a record-breaking amount of players in his span here. hardly a foundation for success when your job is to get a team to play with rhythm and continuity. could another coach had done better? yeah maybe. maybe not. no way to tell.

eViL wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

eViL wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:With the schedule so full the Knicks hit the halfway point of the season in exactly one month.

it's gonna be a bad look if the Knicks are still struggling in a month. i don't think they're too far away. every game i see glimpses of them understanding how to play together. i think they're heading in the right direction. it's not pretty, but i see some signs. time will tell i guess.

It was great seeing Fields play so well yesterday. I had begun to think that he didn't have a true place on the team.

yeah, same. he has to keep playing better. he looked like a different player out there. that nice euro-step reverse layup was shocking. i was like "Landry can do that???" i forgot what it was like to see him play well and be confident.

Fields thrives on ball movement, good spacing, and playing the CORRECT way, with team effort.
However, he isn't great in anything but he does do a little bit of everything.
I don't think we will win many games if he is our SG with his skills.
Unless he can hit a wide open 3 consistently, improve on penetrating and finishing.
He also doesn't have the speed and quickness to defend SGs that do.

Even if Baron Davis comes back, we need our SG to be at least a wide open consistent 3 point threat.
I am not blaming Fields at all, he plays his heart out, and we are just missing talent.
It is not fair to blame ANYONE person.
We are missing skilled players, while our current line up does not mesh...

nykshaknbake wrote:None of those things actually support MDA. He had a below 0.500 record on a team with above average talent. Every team learns it's offense better as the season progresses.

i think our roster has a steeper learning curve but greater potential than some of the other rosters out there. i think meshing Amare's and Melo's talents is a challenging feat. so we might be learning at a slower rate, but once we eventually learn we will top out above some of the teams that are ahead of us now.

or maybe Amare and Melo aren't a fit. or maybe another coach is needed to get through to them. i don't know the answer. but i definitely don't think firing D'Antoni now helps us in any conceivable way.

IMO, people who demanded the Melo trade have no business complaining. This is what we got and this is the player he was in Denver. It's crazy nobody else saw this sheot.

RonRon wrote:

RonRon wrote:Since Amare has no post game, we need our Center to have one but he doesn't.
I love what Tyson Chandler brings but he doesn't mesh well with Amare.

Out of the top tier centers, Marc Gasol and Roy Hibbert would fit better on both ends than Tyson Chandler.

Again, I am not blaming any one player. Just pointing out that I don't think our players mesh.
We really think we should rethink our roster, its not realistic at this point to ask Chandler to add a post game and shot.

Something has to give, while Tyson Chandler and Iman Shumpert both greatly improved our defense, it also created a hole on the offensive end.

let me rephrase that.

Tyson Chandler gives us what we need defensively but he also takes away a part of Amare's game.
Amare also did lose a step as well.
Melo already also takes away a part of Amare's game

Melo also takes away from Dantoni's system with ball movement

We are missing now a few 2way players to run Dantoni's system with ball movement, good shots, and high IQ

hit the 3
penetrate
post up
use athleticism and length to exploit mismatches