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Fact: This team is garbage!
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MS
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1/13/2012  1:45 PM
I just want to know if this team/organization has an actual plan. Secure a 6th seed get swept and raise ticket prices 54%. Start a war with Time Warner and up prices for MSG. Seems like it's just assemble stars to up prices without a plan.

We essentially broker down a town of Chandler, Gallo, Crawford, Lee, Zbo, lottery pick for Amare, Chandler, Melo, Shump, Fields, Douglas. Which team wins head to head right now? It sounds crazy, but I am not sure that we do.

AUTOADVERT
arkrud
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1/13/2012  1:55 PM
MS wrote:I just want to know if this team/organization has an actual plan. Secure a 6th seed get swept and raise ticket prices 54%. Start a war with Time Warner and up prices for MSG. Seems like it's just assemble stars to up prices without a plan.

We essentially broker down a town of Chandler, Gallo, Crawford, Lee, Zbo, lottery pick for Amare, Chandler, Melo, Shump, Fields, Douglas. Which team wins head to head right now? It sounds crazy, but I am not sure that we do.

The goal is to get more money out of the Knicks. Not sure why anybody can think otherwise? This is THE ONLY GOAL.
And I think they will get much more money with Amare, Chandler, Melo. How you can question this?
As per bad bbal... who f...ng cares? Some limited group of die-hard? Who f...ng cares about this dudes?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
rvwink
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1/13/2012  1:57 PM
"This team "is" garbage" uses the wrong verb. Whether this team "will be" garbage by late March, is a much more relevant questions. No one, including MS knows the answer to that question now. At least 3 things have to be decided first.

First, the Knicks have to master their new defensive alignment and everyone needs to prove they are willing to invest the extra energy it requires to be successful. Only then, will the Knicks be able to begin investing time on fixing their offense.

Second, the Knicks need to get quality point guard play to get the ball to the open man, particularly Amare in the right spots. Is Baron Davis able to get that job done, and can he stay healthy? Plus we can now see why Shumps' college shooting stats looked so unimpressive. He has so much self confidence, he seems able to persuade himself repeatedly that he is the best option to take the next shot. Hopefully, he can overcome his impulse to shoot so much, and concentrate more on passing the rock, and defense.

Finally, last season, it took most of the year for D. Wade and LBJ to become more comfortable sharing the ball. Clearly Amare and Melo need more time to work out how they can best cooperate with one another. I am also kind of wondering if it bothers Amare that he has gone from being a "rock star" at the garden, and now he is playing second fiddle to Melo.

The question MS should have answered is whether the Knicks will be garbage toward the end of March. Unfortunately for MS, he simply can't know how the the Knicks defense, the Knicks point guard play, and the playing relationship between Melo and Amare will change between now and then. I saw a couple of Giant games, particularly the second loss the Washington, that made it seem like they simply weren't going to be able to make the playoffs this year. It only proves how easy it is to jump to the wrong conclusion based on paying too much attention to premature evidence.

ChuckBuck
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1/13/2012  2:03 PM
rvwink wrote:"This team "is" garbage" uses the wrong verb. Whether this team "will be" garbage by late March, is a much more relevant questions. No one, including MS knows the answer to that question now. At least 3 things have to be decided first.

First, the Knicks have to master their new defensive alignment and everyone needs to prove they are willing to invest the extra energy it requires to be successful. Only then, will the Knicks be able to begin investing time on fixing their offense.

Second, the Knicks need to get quality point guard play to get the ball to the open man, particularly Amare in the right spots. Is Baron Davis able to get that job done, and can he stay healthy? Plus we can now see why Shumps' college shooting stats looked so unimpressive. He has so much self confidence, he seems able to persuade himself repeatedly that he is the best option to take the next shot. Hopefully, he can overcome his impulse to shoot so much, and concentrate more on passing the rock, and defense.

Finally, last season, it took most of the year for D. Wade and LBJ to become more comfortable sharing the ball. Clearly Amare and Melo need more time to work out how they can best cooperate with one another. I am also kind of wondering if it bothers Amare that he has gone from being a "rock star" at the garden, and now he is playing second fiddle to Melo.

The question MS should have answered is whether the Knicks will be garbage toward the end of March. Unfortunately for MS, he simply can't know how the the Knicks defense, the Knicks point guard play, and the playing relationship between Melo and Amare will change between now and then. I saw a couple of Giant games, particularly the second loss the Washington, that made it seem like they simply weren't going to be able to make the playoffs this year. It only proves how easy it is to jump to the wrong conclusion based on paying too much attention to premature evidence.

Don't you know? MS is Nostradamus!

technomaster
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1/13/2012  2:20 PM
And to think 1 game earlier (on a 4 game winning streak) the outlook was a little rosier.

Coming into this season, the Knicks needed a few things:
* defensive coach
* dominant defensive center
* wing defender.

They got all 3 in Woodson, Chandler and Shumpert
Woodson in theory makes the whole team better at D

In order to get there, we gave up Billups, creating a void at PG in the process.
We solved that (on paper), signing Bibby and Baron Davis. Davis is still on the mend, so there's upside in that situation.

What's the next big problem on the Knicks team that needs to be solved?
Need a better plan for keeping 2 dominant scorers happy and engaged. Against the Sixers, it played out perfectly. We played a perfectly balanced game against ESPN's annointed #1 team in the NBA and beat them.

Need more 3pt shooters - the Knicks roster is what it is - but one can hope that some of our players' 3pt % increases as the season goes along.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
misterearl
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1/13/2012  2:21 PM
Ego-tism and Schisms

"Finally, last season, it took most of the year for D. Wade and LBJ to become more comfortable sharing the ball. Clearly Amare and Melo need more time to work out how they can best cooperate with one another. I am also kind of wondering if it bothers Amare that he has gone from being a "rock star" at the garden, and now he is playing second fiddle to Melo."

rvwink - after less than a half season together on the court, my spider sense tells me there is more to good chemistry than is apparent to television viewers.

Is Amar'e forcing shots to bring the team along or to prove a point about being the Captain? Interesting that Carmelo was elected co-Captain. I don't think either of them deserves such a title unless they personally whupped Iman Shupert's azz last night after his greedy-man game.

The team captain should be Baron Davis. Yeah, he hasn't played a game. But he has been assist-coaching with every opportunity. To empower Baron with Captain status would be a stroke of genius. He would be recognized as the floor leader, healthy or not.

Rock star status is a terrible thing to lose.

once a knick always a knick
GoNyGoNyGo
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1/13/2012  2:22 PM
This team will be fine. A rookie is running the point. Enough said. I am not sure why Bibby is not playing more. He is slow but at least can set up Melo and STAT. Iman had a bad game but he seems to be a hard working kid and wants to get better. He will. The team will.
ChuckBuck
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1/13/2012  2:26 PM
technomaster wrote:And to think 1 game earlier (on a 4 game winning streak) the outlook was a little rosier.

Coming into this season, the Knicks needed a few things:
* defensive coach
* dominant defensive center
* wing defender.

They got all 3 in Woodson, Chandler and Shumpert
Woodson in theory makes the whole team better at D

In order to get there, we gave up Billups, creating a void at PG in the process.
We solved that (on paper), signing Bibby and Baron Davis. Davis is still on the mend, so there's upside in that situation.

What's the next big problem on the Knicks team that needs to be solved?
Need a better plan for keeping 2 dominant scorers happy and engaged. Against the Sixers, it played out perfectly. We played a perfectly balanced game against ESPN's annointed #1 team in the NBA and beat them.

Need more 3pt shooters - the Knicks roster is what it is - but one can hope that some of our players' 3pt % increases as the season goes along.

Kinda wish Knicks signed Michael Redd for 3s from the wing.

Uptown
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1/13/2012  2:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/13/2012  2:29 PM
MS wrote:I just want to know if this team/organization has an actual plan. Secure a 6th seed get swept and raise ticket prices 54%. Start a war with Time Warner and up prices for MSG. Seems like it's just assemble stars to up prices without a plan.

We essentially broker down a town of Chandler, Gallo, Crawford, Lee, Zbo, lottery pick for Amare, Chandler, Melo, Shump, Fields, Douglas. Which team wins head to head right now? It sounds crazy, but I am not sure that we do.

Whats the Plan?!

Secure a legit starting Center (Check)
Secure a legit/allstar starting PF (Check)
Secure a legit allstar starting SF (Check)
Secure a legit starting PG (Check...Baron is waiting the wings)
Upgrade our backcourt, specifically our SG (Check...drafted Shumpert)

Whats next on the agenda? Strengthen our bench and evaluate the coach. Your problem is you wanted the entire plan to be executed yesterday. Unfortunately for you, this is aint NBA 2K....

crzymdups
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1/13/2012  2:40 PM
Uptown wrote:
MS wrote:I just want to know if this team/organization has an actual plan. Secure a 6th seed get swept and raise ticket prices 54%. Start a war with Time Warner and up prices for MSG. Seems like it's just assemble stars to up prices without a plan.

We essentially broker down a town of Chandler, Gallo, Crawford, Lee, Zbo, lottery pick for Amare, Chandler, Melo, Shump, Fields, Douglas. Which team wins head to head right now? It sounds crazy, but I am not sure that we do.

Whats the Plan?!

Secure a legit starting Center (Check)
Secure a legit/allstar starting PF (Check)
Secure a legit allstar starting SF (Check)
Secure a legit starting PG (Check...Baron is waiting the wings)
Upgrade our backcourt, specifically our SG (Check...drafted Shumpert)

Whats next on the agenda? Strengthen our bench and evaluate the coach. Your problem is you wanted the entire plan to be executed yesterday. Unfortunately for you, this is aint NBA 2K....

great post. i agree.

¿ △ ?
Moonangie
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1/13/2012  2:49 PM
Uptown wrote:
MS wrote:I just want to know if this team/organization has an actual plan. Secure a 6th seed get swept and raise ticket prices 54%. Start a war with Time Warner and up prices for MSG. Seems like it's just assemble stars to up prices without a plan.

We essentially broker down a town of Chandler, Gallo, Crawford, Lee, Zbo, lottery pick for Amare, Chandler, Melo, Shump, Fields, Douglas. Which team wins head to head right now? It sounds crazy, but I am not sure that we do.

Whats the Plan?!

Secure a legit starting Center (Check)
Secure a legit/allstar starting PF (Check)
Secure a legit allstar starting SF (Check)
Secure a legit starting PG (Check...Baron is waiting the wings)
Upgrade our backcourt, specifically our SG (Check...drafted Shumpert)

Whats next on the agenda? Strengthen our bench and evaluate the coach. Your problem is you wanted the entire plan to be executed yesterday. Unfortunately for you, this is aint NBA 2K....

+1. Nice checklist. Couldn't have said it any plainer myself.

MarburyAnd1Crossover
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1/13/2012  2:53 PM
arkrud wrote:
MS wrote:I just want to know if this team/organization has an actual plan. Secure a 6th seed get swept and raise ticket prices 54%. Start a war with Time Warner and up prices for MSG. Seems like it's just assemble stars to up prices without a plan.

We essentially broker down a town of Chandler, Gallo, Crawford, Lee, Zbo, lottery pick for Amare, Chandler, Melo, Shump, Fields, Douglas. Which team wins head to head right now? It sounds crazy, but I am not sure that we do.

The goal is to get more money out of the Knicks. Not sure why anybody can think otherwise? This is THE ONLY GOAL.
And I think they will get much more money with Amare, Chandler, Melo. How you can question this?
As per bad bbal... who f...ng cares? Some limited group of die-hard? Who f...ng cares about this dudes?

This is absolutely true, but it is not to say that basketball does not matter at all. It does matter.

Knicks make money starphucking, but Knicks make more money winning championships.

The brand is strong and can weather a lot, but it is not invincible.

Carmelo Anthony is ANTI-BASKETBALL
crzymdups
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1/13/2012  2:55 PM
misterearl wrote:The Donnie Walsh Master Plan

(Correction and Upgrade)

Felton
Fields
Gallinari
Stoudemire
Tyson Chandler (Stat gets the paint back with Felton and Fields smiling at each other)

Bibby
Shumpert
Wilson Chandler
Anthony Randolph
Timofey Mozgov (quality depth, size, scoring and defense to hold leads, did someone say Minute Men?)


Jeremy Lin
Toney Douglas, resting his shoulder
Shawne Williams, who is pissed that he must work hard for minutes
Jared Jeffries for comic relief
Josh Harrellson (Gar-BAGE time is time for auditions)

Just so everyone is on the same page here - you're pining for a team that was 28-26.

And people are complaining about the Knicks beating easy teams. When the Felton/Gallo team fattened up with 13 wins in a row against easy teams.

That 13 game winning streak hides the fact that the team was under .500 in November and January. Take away that streak, when Amar'e was playing out of his mind (something we haven't seen since, including pre-Melo) and the team was 15-26.

Pine on you crazy diamond.

¿ △ ?
rvwink
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1/13/2012  2:56 PM
misterearl wrote:Ego-tism and Schisms

"Is Amar'e forcing shots to bring the team along or to prove a point about being the Captain? Interesting that Carmelo was elected co-Captain. I don't think either of them deserves such a title unless they personally whupped Iman Shupert's azz last night after his greedy-man game.

The team captain should be Baron Davis. Yeah, he hasn't played a game. But he has been assist-coaching with every opportunity. To empower Baron with Captain status would be a stroke of genius. He would be recognized as the floor leader, healthy or not.

Rock star status is a terrible thing to lose."

How can Melo whup Iman Shumpert's azz for having a greedy man's game? "The pot is calling the kettle black."

I think Melo has MDA in his pocket, because he knows how Mike Brown lost his job in Cleveland, and unless the Knicks get to the 3rd playoff round, this year, it looks like Mike is going to need Melo's blessing to return as the Knick coach next season.

Hopefully a large part of Amare' not being right, is not having a good point guard to get him the ball where he needs it. But I have never seen Amare play as inept as he was last night. He just couldn't get anything right. Not only has Melo demoted him so he is now just a 2nd rate superstar, but imagine how he felt when the Knicks tried to trade him. Did you think he expected more loyalty from the Knicks?

rvwink
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1/13/2012  3:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/13/2012  3:05 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
Kinda wish Knicks signed Michael Redd for 3s from the wing.

I now he shoots great, but with such limited resources, I don't understand how you take your one $2.5 million chip and spend it on a guy who has been as injured as frequently as Michael Redd has been the last few years. Kenyon Martin seems like a much more efficient way to spend that money, and it will make Co Captain Melo happy as well.

ChuckBuck
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1/13/2012  3:09 PM
rvwink wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Kinda wish Knicks signed Michael Redd for 3s from the wing.

I now he shoots great, but with such limited resources, I don't understand how you take your one $2.5 million chip and spend it on a guy who has been as injured as frequently as Michael Redd has been the last few years. Kenyon Martin seems like a much more efficient way to spend that money, and it will make Co Captain Melo happier as well.



Redd only making $1mill from Phoenix(same as Novak), but I do agree with Kmart because he brings more to the table.
Gymkata
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1/13/2012  3:26 PM
Would it be fair to say that last year's team was succeeding solely on Amare Soutdemire playing at an outrageous MVP level (how many straight 30+ games did he have?) I know we're front-loaded now, but wasn't that team the very defintion of "all your eggs in one basket?"

And one of these days someone will tell me which piece that we shipped to Denver was the difference between a good return and a bad return.

"I can not say all the secrets."
MarburyAnd1Crossover
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1/13/2012  3:28 PM
Gymkata wrote:Would it be fair to say that last year's team was succeeding solely on Amare Soutdemire playing at an outrageous MVP level (how many straight 30+ games did he have?) I know we're front-loaded now, but wasn't that team the very defintion of "all your eggs in one basket?"

And one of these days someone will tell me which piece that we shipped to Denver was the difference between a good return and a bad return.

He was playing out of his mind, but it was a good situation for everyone. Guys were beginning to understand their roles and they were playing within these roles. There was some level of understanding between them that is necessary for a guy like Amar'e to do what he does.

Carmelo Anthony is ANTI-BASKETBALL
Gymkata
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1/13/2012  4:07 PM
MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:
Gymkata wrote:Would it be fair to say that last year's team was succeeding solely on Amare Soutdemire playing at an outrageous MVP level (how many straight 30+ games did he have?) I know we're front-loaded now, but wasn't that team the very defintion of "all your eggs in one basket?"

And one of these days someone will tell me which piece that we shipped to Denver was the difference between a good return and a bad return.

He was playing out of his mind, but it was a good situation for everyone. Guys were beginning to understand their roles and they were playing within these roles. There was some level of understanding between them that is necessary for a guy like Amar'e to do what he does.

That's valid, but I think we'd all agree that the team was limping a bit at the time of the deal, just two games over .500. And that record included Amare operating at a superhuman level. Just seemed unsustainable to me. And I'm not saying we split the atom with the way our team is currently constituted; I just think our nucleus has the potential to deliver a high-end squad.

"I can not say all the secrets."
FoeDiddy
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1/13/2012  4:33 PM
MS brain is gonna explode if Knicks pull an upset tomorrow. LOL. Its a long season people are sounding like mad men in here.
Fact: This team is garbage!

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