Shooting 33 per cent sucks in any book.

18 shots is too many when you lead dog (Carmelo) only gets 15.

misterearl wrote:holfresh - the boxscore does not lie. I watched the game (first quarter twice) and Douglas STILL stops outside the arc and STILL retreats with token defensive pressure. he drove inside three times, total.

Shooting 33 per cent sucks in any book.

18 shots is too many when you lead dog (Carmelo) only gets 15.

He drove inside and got blocked which should have been a foul because he got knock down...He drove another time which ended in an ally hoop to Chandler and another where Chandler to fouled but missed the layin, He drove twice where he missed two easy layups....That's off the top my head...Think your lane count is off....

misterearl wrote:Love At First Sight

holfresh - you had me at, "He drove twice where he missed two easy layups."

Happy New Year

Thing is tho, U have to know running the team is way more important than the shortcomings you are trying to point out...

Happy New Year brother!!!!

knickstorrents wrote:TD is braindead, sorry.

If Lin got as much burn as TD has gotten, we would forget all about TD.

Let Lin play!!!

Did you see Lin yesterday?

holfresh wrote:

misterearl wrote:holfresh - the boxscore does not lie. I watched the game (first quarter twice) and Douglas STILL stops outside the arc and STILL retreats with token defensive pressure. he drove inside three times, total.

Shooting 33 per cent sucks in any book.

18 shots is too many when you lead dog (Carmelo) only gets 15.

He drove inside and got blocked which should have been a foul because he got knock down...He drove another time which ended in an ally hoop to Chandler and another where Chandler to fouled but missed the layin, He drove twice where he missed two easy layups....That's off the top my head...Think your lane count is off....

Seeing Chandler run over to help him up, Chandler roaring and stomping in the paint...it does portend well. Indeed you have to charm the bulls before you can lead the herd...no easy task.

Some have made up their minds many years back and have repeatedly regurgitated their regular venom. The spasms are reflexive now it will take much time to retrain them. The first step on the path to their recovery is for them to admit they were wrong. Too early.

misterearl wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:TD is braindead, sorry.

If Lin got as much burn as TD has gotten, we would forget all about TD.

Let Lin play!!!

Did you see Lin yesterday?

holfresh - Lin got to the rack and missed a layup. Same thing Toney Douglas do. In the final three minutes the Knicks continued scoring.

Harrellson has demonstrated that playing in prime time can sometimes reveal good news. Lin just arrived. Even with his minor errors, I dig the way he changes gears with the ball.

Shift Du Yoots

Jeremy Lin pushing the tempo
Lovable Landry Fields
Cool Carmelo
Harrellson hoisting from three
Tyson Chandler

I guess you miss the two times he got ripped and tied up by Isiah Thomas or the time he fell on the floor trying to juke Thomas or the charge after being thrown to ball by the opposing player....Yeah he was doing the same...

If you can't bring the ball up court with your high BB IQ, I doubt you gonna be in that league for much longer...

I still think he can be a contributor to this team if given a non-garbage-time opportunity - Mr Stubborn just need to give it a shot

nixluva wrote:TD isn't going to be Steve Nash, but all we need from him is to play smart and at least run the plays as they're setup to go. We've seen him have stretches of games where he has played like he gets it. I said last year the same thing Holfresh is saying in this thread!!! I thought I saw TD starting to get the hang of the position and he was playing well. It seems for TD that he needs someone in his ear to keep him focused on the simple things he needs to do as the PG. He tends to revert to SG mode.

This was a really good mention about Kenny Atkinson helping TD to see what he was doing wrong:

Asst. Coach Kenny Atkinson told me he took 2 of ToneyDouglas' good games last year (vs N.O. & MEM) & clips of all his great pick & roll passes, edited them w video coord as a VISUAL reminder Toney CAN facilitate plays & make good shots. Coaches have confidence in Douglas because he has done this before & see his early struggles as just a small sample. Douglas IS feeling pressure &was thinking too much in 1st 3 games,causing hesitation.

It seems to have worked cuz we saw TD actually running PnR and penetrating to breakdown the D and draw attention so he could setup teammates. He was more in the flow and it allowed the team to shoot good open shots and get to the foul line off PnR plays. This is all we need TD to continue to do. That and take good shots himself.

OK so I saw the game I had taped this morning. Yes TD got into the paint and seemed to have figured out a semblance of PnR with Tyson. What I saw was him connect with Tyson once or twice and then settle into a rythm where he was looking to throw lob passes at TC each time down. It worked for a while then the Kings figured it out and Isiah Thomas blocked one of his passes clean into the 15th row. My issue with TD is his lack of vision, creativity and ability to think when he is out there. He keeps trying the exact same thing so the defense know what he will do before he does. He is still taking bad shots but Jorts and Tyson rebounded some of his misses for putbacks and second opportunities so they didn't hurt us as much. Against a set defense he will still be be quickly exposed. Our offense hasn't improved yet, Sacramento wasn't even playing defense.

upstate wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

misterearl wrote:

upstate wrote:I like TD because he hustles and plays hard, but he looks so much more comfortable as a 2 than a 1. I think he shoots better when someone passes him the ball, and he sometimes has trouble dribbling without looking at the ball, so when he looks down, he misses open teammates. He also does not seem to see the play develop in advance, which is needed to be a good 1.

Upstate - Ask yourself one fundamental question - Does Douglas make his team mates better or worse?

Well said MisterEarl. I was watching the highlights of Rose vs. Paul last night and it was just so painfully obvious what a good/great PG needs to do. Not to compare other PG's to the cream, but it becomes Obvious that good PG's (I'm going to throw Rubio immediately into that group), know how to find the open man AND set up their teamates to the rim, with spacing on their drives, etc.

You know a lot of getting assists isn't having great vision. It's simply driving and kicking it out to the open man. To me, great vision is when you clearly see the pass made in traffic, at angles, tough bounce passes, etc. Douglas can do Neither and again I'll note that I really like Douglas as an off the bench SG.

Lastly, when you have a good to great PG the team chemistry comes faster, cause you have an orchestrator.

Agree, Douglas does not make his teammates better. The Sac game was his best game of the year, and he still forced up too many shots, both outside and when he is driving to the basket. His best PG-type play was the PNR with Chandler, but when Sac began defending this play, Douglas came up with no second option. Douglas should only take shots when his feet are set and someone passes him the ball.

Couldn't agree more.

nixluva wrote:TD actually needs to use some Floaters in the lane and also pull up jumpers off the PnR. I don't know why you guys are suggesting that he only take shots with his feet set. Unless you mean 3pt'ers which is logical. Other than that it was good for TD to dribble into open space and take midrange shots in addition to what he normally does in only shooting 3's. The more TD mixes up what he does the less predictable he is and the better it will be for the Knicks offense. The guys is young and still learning and should continue to try and expand his game.

I agree if and only as long as TD is being asked to play the point, but this should only be done if he is "hot" and in the rhythm of the offense, which is not always an easy judgment call to make. Otherwise, his percentages on driving floaters and other midrange shots has not been good, and he has not shown the ability to differentiate when to shoot as indicated by his FG% and the times that he is blocked. There are certain PG in certain situations that might be able to get by with a lower shooting percentage, but that is only when they are taking shots within the flow of the offense, and his teammates are getting involved and enough touches to stay warm and/or in position to offensive rebound. Generally speaking, if you put up an early shot clock shot, unless your teammates are in position to rebound and/or you are trying to lure the opposing team into an up-and-down game, your shooting percentage better be very high.

Bottom line is that TD is much better suited to playing SG. As bad as Lin looked in the last game (the worst stint that I have ever seen him play), he is still more of a pure point than TD in terms of what he is trying to accomplish on the floor. This goes for Bibby as well, but Bibby is just too much of a liability on defense and with rebounding/loose balls (i.e., he gets none) to be playing significant minutes ahead of either TD or Lin.