Juice wrote:

martin wrote:

Juice wrote:

misterearl wrote:Corey Brewer was waiting in the wings, just in case. Caron Butler never suited up. Brendan Hawywood was chillin'.

Quality Depth

You did recognize Carlisle using Mahinmi and The Custodian right? 2 players D'AnToni probably never would realize they were real human beings

I mean, come on now. Can you add a bit of reality and thought into your posts or u just gonna blaze some bland rhetoric?

MDA tried to start Moz and played JJ too much and relied on Turiaf. They aint much better than Mahinmi or The Custodian.

And let's not fool ourselves into thinking that those guys were getting regular minutes or playing time cause Chandler was in foul trouble or Haywood was hurt or Dirk was in foul trouble.

I know and Carlisle came to the conclusion GOING SMALL BALL LIES

I'd also like to add he benched Peja for the duration of the series after Game 2 I believe. He didn't say okay I have a couple bigs hurt and/or in foul trouble let me re-insert 6'10" Peja who can shoot from distance and play him.

He simply did things most coaches wouldn't have the guts to do IN THE FINALS not first couple games of Pre-Season and/or Regular season

Carlisle used statistics to determine optimal lineups (see post above). This gave him the confidence to yank certain players (Peja) and add others (Mahinmi and Cardinal probably).

I wish the Knicks used advanced statistics more...

The Heat have holes and IMO they don't have a Championship offense. They only have a Championship defense. The Mavs have both sides of the court running at a championship level. That's the kind of team I want the Knicks to be. There are those who were overly impressed by the great defense of the Bulls and Heat. I was bashed cuz I said I wasn't impressed with the Bulls and I said that I didn't like the fact that they were so dependent upon Rose. I wasn't wrong. The Heat had 3 great talents, but those talents don't really add up to great offense. It's amazing that you can have that much talent and the offense still looks ugly.

The Heat defended as hard as they could and yet when they needed a key basket or run to win they couldn't get it. Come on the Mavs are very good defensively, but they're not great! They use a Zone to great effect, but if they were truly a great defensive team they likely wouldn't have to use it the way they do. If the Heat had a Penetrating PG that could breakdown the D and dish, they could've won the series. Instead Lebron and Wade have to take turns dominating the ball. As good as Lebron is, he can't break a zone defense down by himself. Also the Heat don't have a true post up big that could get into the middle of the zone and draw attention. Bosh is as much a perimeter player as a SG.

The Knicks have 2 stars that aren't the same player. If this team can get a PG capable of setting up his teammates and breaking down the defense that will make both STAT and Melo complete. STAT can go back to being the finisher he is and Melo can take over games at key times like he's capable. The rest of the team can fill their roles. Finally if the Knicks can improve the D by adding bigs that can hold down the paint, this team could surpass the Heat and Bulls. The Knicks would have more balance and the pieces would fit together better than both of those teams.

AnubisADL wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Mavs won because they had better OFFENSE!!! The Mavs play great D, but in the end the Heat couldn't keep up scoring wise. The Heat can't play any better defense, it was GREAT Mavs offense that won this title. So I don't wanna hear that you can't win with a good defense and a great offense. You don't have to have the #1 defense to win a championship. This isn't to say that defense isn't important, we all know it is, so don't go there. I'm just saying that you want a team that is capable of getting it done in more than one way. The Heat have never been a very good offensive team. They tended to beat teams with their defense getting steals and scoring easy buckets on the break. With the Mavs they run such good offense, that there weren't a lot of those easy fastbreak buckets that the Heat usually live off of.

The Mavs spread the floor and passed so well that it stretched the limits of the Heats great defensive quickness. The Heat didn't have an answer for the Mavs best player defensively, cuz the Mavs had enough real threats on the floor to give him room to work against single coverage or a late help defender. The Heat offense stinks. If not for the great individual talents of Lebron and Wade their offense wouldn't be that effective. The Mavs were deeper and had more answers for the Heat defense than any team they faced in the East.

Come on man. Really. Mavs basically took Lebron out of the game. You need to outscore the other team to win so obviously offense wins.

Why didn't the Heat take Dirk out of his game? Because Dirk has better offense than the vaunted Heat defense. If you believe what people can't stop posting here, Chicago should have won the championship becuase you can only win with elite defense. Guess what? A soft white Euro a gimpy kneed 38 year old and a bunch of scrubs just proved all you defense worshippers wrong. It's balance that wins, and balance is never equal, it can be offense heavy or defense heavy. As long as the whole is greater than the sum of the parts you got a shot.

loweyecue wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Mavs won because they had better OFFENSE!!! The Mavs play great D, but in the end the Heat couldn't keep up scoring wise. The Heat can't play any better defense, it was GREAT Mavs offense that won this title. So I don't wanna hear that you can't win with a good defense and a great offense. You don't have to have the #1 defense to win a championship. This isn't to say that defense isn't important, we all know it is, so don't go there. I'm just saying that you want a team that is capable of getting it done in more than one way. The Heat have never been a very good offensive team. They tended to beat teams with their defense getting steals and scoring easy buckets on the break. With the Mavs they run such good offense, that there weren't a lot of those easy fastbreak buckets that the Heat usually live off of.

The Mavs spread the floor and passed so well that it stretched the limits of the Heats great defensive quickness. The Heat didn't have an answer for the Mavs best player defensively, cuz the Mavs had enough real threats on the floor to give him room to work against single coverage or a late help defender. The Heat offense stinks. If not for the great individual talents of Lebron and Wade their offense wouldn't be that effective. The Mavs were deeper and had more answers for the Heat defense than any team they faced in the East.

Come on man. Really. Mavs basically took Lebron out of the game. You need to outscore the other team to win so obviously offense wins.

Why didn't the Heat take Dirk out of his game? Because Dirk has better offense than the vaunted Heat defense. If you believe what people can't stop posting here, Chicago should have won the championship becuase you can only win with elite defense. Guess what? A soft white Euro a gimpy kneed 38 year old and a bunch of scrubs just proved all you defense worshippers wrong. It's balance that wins, and balance is never equal, it can be offense heavy or defense heavy. As long as the whole is greater than the sum of the parts you got a shot.

Dirk isn't soft and I didn't know he aged 6 years.

Dirk did well because they had nobody who could matchup against him. Chris Bosh? This guy is soft, not Dirk. Dirk dominated this guy all series.

You always need more of defense than offense to win a game and to win in the playoffs. The Mavs had more than their fair share of defense.

Childs2Dudley wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Mavs won because they had better OFFENSE!!! The Mavs play great D, but in the end the Heat couldn't keep up scoring wise. The Heat can't play any better defense, it was GREAT Mavs offense that won this title. So I don't wanna hear that you can't win with a good defense and a great offense. You don't have to have the #1 defense to win a championship. This isn't to say that defense isn't important, we all know it is, so don't go there. I'm just saying that you want a team that is capable of getting it done in more than one way. The Heat have never been a very good offensive team. They tended to beat teams with their defense getting steals and scoring easy buckets on the break. With the Mavs they run such good offense, that there weren't a lot of those easy fastbreak buckets that the Heat usually live off of.

The Mavs spread the floor and passed so well that it stretched the limits of the Heats great defensive quickness. The Heat didn't have an answer for the Mavs best player defensively, cuz the Mavs had enough real threats on the floor to give him room to work against single coverage or a late help defender. The Heat offense stinks. If not for the great individual talents of Lebron and Wade their offense wouldn't be that effective. The Mavs were deeper and had more answers for the Heat defense than any team they faced in the East.

Come on man. Really. Mavs basically took Lebron out of the game. You need to outscore the other team to win so obviously offense wins.

Why didn't the Heat take Dirk out of his game? Because Dirk has better offense than the vaunted Heat defense. If you believe what people can't stop posting here, Chicago should have won the championship becuase you can only win with elite defense. Guess what? A soft white Euro a gimpy kneed 38 year old and a bunch of scrubs just proved all you defense worshippers wrong. It's balance that wins, and balance is never equal, it can be offense heavy or defense heavy. As long as the whole is greater than the sum of the parts you got a shot.

Dirk isn't soft and I didn't know he aged 6 years.

Dirk did well because they had nobody who could matchup against him. Chris Bosh? This guy is soft, not Dirk. Dirk dominated this guy all series.

You always need more of defense than offense to win a game and to win in the playoffs. The Mavs had more than their fair share of defense.

You know, I ignore your posts for a reason, but this being the offseason I am reading those as well. :)
JFK is the 38 year old I was talking about, I didn't say Dirk was soft -- If you understand what I am posting I was alluding to stereotypes people here subscribe to. Those etreotypes include: "Only elite defensive teams win championships", "Euro players are soft", "you need the ultimate defensive minded coaches to win" .....ad infinitum.

Did Dallas really have answers for Wade and Lebron? No team in the league has that, it's not JUST about defense. Why couldn't the Lakers stop Dallas? They had enough inside power to take on Dirk and then some, right? 4-0 doesn't exactly make your case does it?
Now if the Lakers had won, you would be preaching that Dallas is a weak defensive team and the Lakers win becuase of of their defense. People only see what they want, but you can't spin this **** both ways.

loweyecue wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Mavs won because they had better OFFENSE!!! The Mavs play great D, but in the end the Heat couldn't keep up scoring wise. The Heat can't play any better defense, it was GREAT Mavs offense that won this title. So I don't wanna hear that you can't win with a good defense and a great offense. You don't have to have the #1 defense to win a championship. This isn't to say that defense isn't important, we all know it is, so don't go there. I'm just saying that you want a team that is capable of getting it done in more than one way. The Heat have never been a very good offensive team. They tended to beat teams with their defense getting steals and scoring easy buckets on the break. With the Mavs they run such good offense, that there weren't a lot of those easy fastbreak buckets that the Heat usually live off of.

The Mavs spread the floor and passed so well that it stretched the limits of the Heats great defensive quickness. The Heat didn't have an answer for the Mavs best player defensively, cuz the Mavs had enough real threats on the floor to give him room to work against single coverage or a late help defender. The Heat offense stinks. If not for the great individual talents of Lebron and Wade their offense wouldn't be that effective. The Mavs were deeper and had more answers for the Heat defense than any team they faced in the East.

Come on man. Really. Mavs basically took Lebron out of the game. You need to outscore the other team to win so obviously offense wins.

Why didn't the Heat take Dirk out of his game? Because Dirk has better offense than the vaunted Heat defense. If you believe what people can't stop posting here, Chicago should have won the championship becuase you can only win with elite defense. Guess what? A soft white Euro a gimpy kneed 38 year old and a bunch of scrubs just proved all you defense worshippers wrong. It's balance that wins, and balance is never equal, it can be offense heavy or defense heavy. As long as the whole is greater than the sum of the parts you got a shot.

Dirk isn't soft and I didn't know he aged 6 years.

Dirk did well because they had nobody who could matchup against him. Chris Bosh? This guy is soft, not Dirk. Dirk dominated this guy all series.

You always need more of defense than offense to win a game and to win in the playoffs. The Mavs had more than their fair share of defense.

You know, I ignore your posts for a reason, but this being the offseason I am reading those as well. :)
JFK is the 38 year old I was talking about, I didn't say Dirk was soft -- If you understand what I am posting I was alluding to stereotypes people here subscribe to. Those etreotypes include: "Only elite defensive teams win championships", "Euro players are soft", "you need the ultimate defensive minded coaches to win" .....ad infinitum.

Did Dallas really have answers for Wade and Lebron? No team in the league has that, it's not JUST about defense. Why couldn't the Lakers stop Dallas? They had enough inside power to take on Dirk and then some, right? 4-0 doesn't exactly make your case does it?
Now if the Lakers had won, you would be preaching that Dallas is a weak defensive team and the Lakers win becuase of of their defense. People only see what they want, but you can't spin this **** both ways.

Maybe if you'd use a comma I would have better understood your post. I guess I'm the fool.

You don't need to take unneeded shots. I thought that was below you. Oh wait, it isn't.

What exactly are you talking about, really? If the Lakers had won, if Wade and LeBron had scored more, if I banged Kim Kardashian, if this and if that. What happened in reality is that the Dallas Mavericks played excellent defense throughout the entire playoffs and in the Finals. The Mavericks didn't take LeBron out of the series? They played him perfectly. They knew when to double and when to layoff him. They had him down to a T. There is no such thing as a Wade or LeBron stopper but great team defense was able to suppress their impact as best it could. When were the Lakers playing great defense all season? Am I missing something? The Lakers didn't look great all year. Certainly they didn't look 4-0 bad but that's how the series went. Defending champion or not, the Lakers were subpar defensively this season. If you think the Mavericks defense had little to do with them winning a title you need to go hang out with Mike D'Antoni and keep drinking that kool-aid.

Why is it that the Mike D'Antoni apologists are the only ones trying to perpetuate this notion that defense isn't as important to winning a championship as most of us think it is?

Childs2Dudley wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Mavs won because they had better OFFENSE!!! The Mavs play great D, but in the end the Heat couldn't keep up scoring wise. The Heat can't play any better defense, it was GREAT Mavs offense that won this title. So I don't wanna hear that you can't win with a good defense and a great offense. You don't have to have the #1 defense to win a championship. This isn't to say that defense isn't important, we all know it is, so don't go there. I'm just saying that you want a team that is capable of getting it done in more than one way. The Heat have never been a very good offensive team. They tended to beat teams with their defense getting steals and scoring easy buckets on the break. With the Mavs they run such good offense, that there weren't a lot of those easy fastbreak buckets that the Heat usually live off of.

The Mavs spread the floor and passed so well that it stretched the limits of the Heats great defensive quickness. The Heat didn't have an answer for the Mavs best player defensively, cuz the Mavs had enough real threats on the floor to give him room to work against single coverage or a late help defender. The Heat offense stinks. If not for the great individual talents of Lebron and Wade their offense wouldn't be that effective. The Mavs were deeper and had more answers for the Heat defense than any team they faced in the East.

Come on man. Really. Mavs basically took Lebron out of the game. You need to outscore the other team to win so obviously offense wins.

Why didn't the Heat take Dirk out of his game? Because Dirk has better offense than the vaunted Heat defense. If you believe what people can't stop posting here, Chicago should have won the championship becuase you can only win with elite defense. Guess what? A soft white Euro a gimpy kneed 38 year old and a bunch of scrubs just proved all you defense worshippers wrong. It's balance that wins, and balance is never equal, it can be offense heavy or defense heavy. As long as the whole is greater than the sum of the parts you got a shot.

Dirk isn't soft and I didn't know he aged 6 years.

Dirk did well because they had nobody who could matchup against him. Chris Bosh? This guy is soft, not Dirk. Dirk dominated this guy all series.

You always need more of defense than offense to win a game and to win in the playoffs. The Mavs had more than their fair share of defense.

You know, I ignore your posts for a reason, but this being the offseason I am reading those as well. :)
JFK is the 38 year old I was talking about, I didn't say Dirk was soft -- If you understand what I am posting I was alluding to stereotypes people here subscribe to. Those etreotypes include: "Only elite defensive teams win championships", "Euro players are soft", "you need the ultimate defensive minded coaches to win" .....ad infinitum.

Did Dallas really have answers for Wade and Lebron? No team in the league has that, it's not JUST about defense. Why couldn't the Lakers stop Dallas? They had enough inside power to take on Dirk and then some, right? 4-0 doesn't exactly make your case does it?
Now if the Lakers had won, you would be preaching that Dallas is a weak defensive team and the Lakers win becuase of of their defense. People only see what they want, but you can't spin this **** both ways.

Maybe if you'd use a comma I would have better understood your post. I guess I'm the fool.

You don't need to take unneeded shots. I thought that was below you. Oh wait, it isn't.

What exactly are you talking about, really? If the Lakers had won, if Wade and LeBron had scored more, if I banged Kim Kardashian, if this and if that. What happened in reality is that the Dallas Mavericks played excellent defense throughout the entire playoffs and in the Finals. The Mavericks didn't take LeBron out of the series? They played him perfectly. They knew when to double and when to layoff him. They had him down to a T. There is no such thing as a Wade or LeBron stopper but great team defense was able to suppress their impact as best it could. When were the Lakers playing great defense all season? Am I missing something? The Lakers didn't look great all year. Certainly they didn't look 4-0 bad but that's how the series went. Defending champion or not, the Lakers were subpar defensively this season. If you think the Mavericks defense had little to do with them winning a title you need to go hang out with Mike D'Antoni and keep drinking that kool-aid.

Why is it that the Mike D'Antoni apologists are the only ones trying to perpetuate this notion that defense isn't as important to winning a championship as most of us think it is?

I wasn't taking shots, I really did have you on ignore. I think what I was saying is clear, stereotypes are useless.
Dallas is not great defensive team, they didn't lock Lebron down, Lebron just didn't execute well. Probably becuase the Heat don't really have an offensive scheme. Lebron has decimated defenses much better than this and you and I both know he can do better.

Yes you did miss the argument about the Lakers. The stereotype of needing defensive players and defensive minded coaches doesn't alway work.

This isn't about you, it's not personal. Wasn't trying to take shots and apologize if I offended you. But I hate stereotypes, that's all.

You need 2 scorers which we have, then you need a defensive center who can score on putbacks - Dalembert or Camby. Move Chauncey to the 2 and get a distributing PG who can shoot the three (Nash?) - granted cap wise we would need someone with less of a name. Off the bench you have Williams, Fields, Walker, and you need to sign another shooter.

It would take a miracle to pull that off - let alone in a single off season, but I don't think we need three stars.

I do think if we hadn't traded the farm for Melo and could have gotten him as a FA then we would be contenders next year but as of now I think we are a good 2-3 seasons away from that barring any unforeseen disasters with the new CBA or Stats body giving out.

nixluva wrote:The thing is that until we address the holes this team has there's no way we can win a title. That's what the Mavs did! They already had a good team, but they needed to address their interior defense and add some guys that could also defend on the perimeter, but overall they aren't a purely great defensive team. They did have to rely on the use of zones to make up for their shortcomings. Adding Tyson Chandler made a HUGE difference!

The Knicks need to find a Tyson Chandler to anchor the teams defense and rebounding. We also need to add a PG that can do the things Barea did. He constantly broke down defenses and really was an impact player in the postseason. We all know what the Knicks need and have needed for a while. If we can improve the roster it may just give us the balance we need on both ends of the floor.

The Mavs had a team oriented approach on both sides of the floor. On offense they shared the ball like no other team. They trusted each other and looked for each other and did their best to take the BEST shot available. They spread the floor and made it impossible to stop their attack, so long as they kept moving the ball and making smart decisions. That's the kind of offense that MDA has been trying to develop here. We just don't have a JJ Barea coming in off the bench and playing great PG. Still in the end we MUST find a way to improve the defense or nothing is gonna change. This is on Donnie now to finish the job and I hope he can get it done. Thank God he's still in charge of this draft.

I think we were on our way there until the trade..

Its not so much that dallas plays unselfish (dirk took 27 shots) it's more a case of everbody knowing there roles to the T, role players knowing when to step up and take the shots.