MS wrote:You're bringing up teams and players that were built to win NBA championships. They were saving energy. We are the 7th seed and the 18th best best team in the league and that might be generous.

12-4 Denver Nuggest playing as good as any team in the NBA. The Knicks are 3-9 in there last 12.

Give Melo a break already. At least Marbury played hard for half a season.

Why don't you give the Marbury and Melo comparisons a break? And we're not the 18th best team in the league, take a closer look.

fishmike wrote:

SlimChin wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:He gets this urge to earn a paycheck every few games, and that's not good enough. You have to ball all the time, every game.

39pts against magic

36pts against bobcats

25pts against bucks

yup, you're right—lazy superstar.

i don't know what the heck you expect from this guy...

he is, and you cant deny it. You saw how he played last night. I dont care about the fact that he was hitting shots. Everyone knows he's great at hitting buckets. Nobody has a problem with that. The problem is that was probably the first game as a Knick he gave an honest EFFORT on defense. It wasnt about adjustments or schemes, it was about EFFORT. Nothing more nothing less. I understand its the NBA, guys dont play like that every possession bla bla bla. That was the first time as a Knick Melo played hard on BOTH ends for all the time he was on the floor in the 4th qtr.

If you going to tell me Melo has given max effort since being here your a liar. He's coasted, and when things got tough he disappeared, avoided the media and made excuses. Funny how simply playing hard fixed all the problems isnt it? My favorite part is the people that actually blame this on the coach.

Even Mike Breen called him out, saying he's a good defender when the effort is there and that effort has NOT been there.

In a lot of ways last night's game was a negative eye opener rather than a great win, because now we and everyone else knows that Anthony does NOT give an honest effort most nights and this is the guy we are set to build around.

Its wonderful he sells jerseys, etc. At this point if I could trade him for CP3 I would in half a heartbeat. I want a guy who's going to lead. I think its cute he was hugging Douglas etc.

Its the start of a new era... its called "we are as good as Melo's effort on any given night"

Inspiring

I agree with everything, except the part about the coach, and we could cite the other thread about what makes great coaches.

I bet Phil Jackson would be able to get Melo to perform like this every night. Might not happen straight away- might take time. And maybe MDA can do the same. I seem to recall that Phil had a season long struggle with Kobe after Shaq left.

So, I think Coaches are called Coaches to Coach effort. Otherwise, the term Coach would mean something like Strategist.

But the second bolded part - I thought the same thing during the game. Proof that he can bring it - dude was all over the place grabbing rebounds and playing defense like a man possessed.

martin wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:There is no reason a man his size, with his athelticism shouldn't have won several rebounding titles. None whatsoever.

Coming in 2nd or 3rd year after year should be help against him? Especially with the likes of Rodman, Ben Wallace, Motumbo on the court doing only defense and rebounding?

And that's why we should hold it against him?

Weak argument.

Shaq has a rep as being a lazy guy and thats why hes been so often injured, he had poor conditioning. Thats the point. He still should have won at least one rebounding title. And I'll give him a pass for all of the Rodman years.

Killa4luv wrote:

martin wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:There is no reason a man his size, with his athelticism shouldn't have won several rebounding titles. None whatsoever.

Coming in 2nd or 3rd year after year should be help against him? Especially with the likes of Rodman, Ben Wallace, Motumbo on the court doing only defense and rebounding?

And that's why we should hold it against him?

Weak argument.

Not really. Look at his numbers rebounding and points, prior to Phil Jax joining the team. and then right after. He jumped 3 points a game and 3 rebounds a game. Thise are pretty significant jumps. He was not playing 100% every night and there is no doubt he was a superstar.

Shaq has a rep as being a lazy guy and thats why hes been so often injured, he had poor conditioning. Thats the point. He still should have won at least one rebounding title. And I'll give him a pass for all of the Rodman years.

You are basing your entire premise on Shaq not being #1 in rebounding when he was clearly top in the league at it during his prime and was also #2 or #3 several times.

<shrugs shoulders>

martin wrote:

Moonangie wrote:And from last night's game it's clear that Melo could do it regularly as well, if he chooses to. He shouldn't be expected to issue playoff-caliber performances for 82 games a season, but we are 8 games from the playoffs, so now would be a good time to keep the lantern burning. And obviously in the playoffs is all in every game.

I am not 100% sure what you mean by that statement, but guys like Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Jordan, Isiah, Bird, Magic play/played just about 99% of all their games like it was a playoff-caliber game.

And that's what separates them from Melo, Amare, Bosh. Balls out, both ends of court, 100% all the time. Regular season or playoffs. Definition of superstar.

Who put Melo in that elite company???

martin wrote:

islesfan wrote:

martin wrote:

Moonangie wrote:And from last night's game it's clear that Melo could do it regularly as well, if he chooses to. He shouldn't be expected to issue playoff-caliber performances for 82 games a season, but we are 8 games from the playoffs, so now would be a good time to keep the lantern burning. And obviously in the playoffs is all in every game.

I am not 100% sure what you mean by that statement, but guys like Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Jordan, Isiah, Bird, Magic play/played just about 99% of all their games like it was a playoff-caliber game.

And that's what separates them from Melo, Amare, Bosh. Balls out, both ends of court, 100% all the time. Regular season or playoffs. Definition of superstar.

Who put Melo in that elite company???

no one, I was contrasting. Did you miss that?

No I got that. Just wondering why you would even feel it necessary to bring up those other players when nobody in their right mind would put Melo or Amare in the same sentence. You basically agreed with Moonangie so why state the obvious?

martin wrote:

islesfan wrote:

martin wrote:

islesfan wrote:

martin wrote:

Moonangie wrote:And from last night's game it's clear that Melo could do it regularly as well, if he chooses to. He shouldn't be expected to issue playoff-caliber performances for 82 games a season, but we are 8 games from the playoffs, so now would be a good time to keep the lantern burning. And obviously in the playoffs is all in every game.

I am not 100% sure what you mean by that statement, but guys like Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Jordan, Isiah, Bird, Magic play/played just about 99% of all their games like it was a playoff-caliber game.

And that's what separates them from Melo, Amare, Bosh. Balls out, both ends of court, 100% all the time. Regular season or playoffs. Definition of superstar.

Who put Melo in that elite company???

no one, I was contrasting. Did you miss that?

No I got that. Just wondering why you would even feel it necessary to bring up those other players when nobody in their right mind would put Melo or Amare in the same sentence. You basically agreed with Moonangie so why state the obvious?

Because that's exactly the type of effort I DO expect out of Amare and Melo, clearly something that Moonangie does not by his own words.

You're confusing me. Now you are putting Melo and Amare in that elite company? Why would you expect those guys to be on that level? I'd be happy for a notch below on a consistent basis. That goes with everybody on the team, not just Melo and Amare. That's on the head coach.

It comes down to winning and how bad guys want it. Obviously Melo was sick of losing and really wanted to win that game. I suspect agains the Nets he will fall back into old habits, get his shots and that will be enough to fill the box score and look like a good day at the office.

And Boston and Detroit do bring it every night. I dont remember Sheed, Billups, Ben Wallace and Prince taking nights off. Too much pride in their defense. It showed. Every team has off nights. Melo has off months on that side of the ball.

We are talking about Shaq? One of the most dominating players to ever play? Please.... this is the problem with Melo. People here actually believe the billboards and cool comercials. Either that or they simply exagerate what Melo is to justify the trade. Take your pick. You cant watch Melo and say he's a top 10 star NBA player. Maybe he could be, but he's not. Way to one dimensional.

The people waiting on Melo to do what he did last night more consistantly are just as reality based as people talking about how great Gallo and Mosgov were "going" to be. Melo being a complete player is a pipe dream. He's 27 has the paycheck and goes to all star games. What you see has been good enough. He's not changing. Unless you think he's going to care more about winning than he has in the past... enough so where he's really motivated to change his game (like Lebron did on defense).

Melo is a good player, but he needs to be surrounded by strong personalities and tough guys. If we had Ben Wallace, Raja Bell and Billups and they were all 27 also Melo would be a great fit. But those guys I mentioned are just role players and SO MUCH EASIER TO GET THEN A STAR so I expect the roster to filled out with them next winter.

Cant wait

JrZyHuStLa wrote:It's a head coach's job to get his team to play with effort. D'antoni has been unable to do so up until yesterday, which is why I want him fired.

What's not to understand?

MDA gets FULL credit for Melo's good game right? Thank god MDA got Melo to play hard. Maybe this coaching thing is starting to click and we should keep him? At least until Melo forgets what MDA told him and goes back to floating and loafing on D

fishmike wrote:Melo really is Vince Carter. He's capable of being one of the best ever, he just doesnt have that drive. Obviously a good coach isnt going to get it out of him either, because Karl is a good coach. MDA is a good coach. Would Phil JAckson get that from him? It might just make Melo bail and pout. I'm just not sure he's got the stones, or at least he hasnt shown it yet.

It comes down to winning and how bad guys want it. Obviously Melo was sick of losing and really wanted to win that game. I suspect agains the Nets he will fall back into old habits, get his shots and that will be enough to fill the box score and look like a good day at the office.

And Boston and Detroit do bring it every night. I dont remember Sheed, Billups, Ben Wallace and Prince taking nights off. Too much pride in their defense. It showed. Every team has off nights. Melo has off months on that side of the ball.

We are talking about Shaq? One of the most dominating players to ever play? Please.... this is the problem with Melo. People here actually believe the billboards and cool comercials. Either that or they simply exagerate what Melo is to justify the trade. Take your pick. You cant watch Melo and say he's a top 10 star NBA player. Maybe he could be, but he's not. Way to one dimensional.

The people waiting on Melo to do what he did last night more consistantly are just as reality based as people talking about how great Gallo and Mosgov were "going" to be. Melo being a complete player is a pipe dream. He's 27 has the paycheck and goes to all star games. What you see has been good enough. He's not changing. Unless you think he's going to care more about winning than he has in the past... enough so where he's really motivated to change his game (like Lebron did on defense).

Melo is a good player, but he needs to be surrounded by strong personalities and tough guys. If we had Ben Wallace, Raja Bell and Billups and they were all 27 also Melo would be a great fit. But those guys I mentioned are just role players and SO MUCH EASIER TO GET THEN A STAR so I expect the roster to filled out with them next winter.

Cant wait

Melo's teams have never missed the playoffs and his team lost in the Conference Finals to the 2 time champion Lakers in 6 games last year. Oh and he carried his Syracuse team to an NCAA championship.

Yeah, he's not a great defender on a consistent basis but he can be a good defender. Add to that his elite offensive ability and he's most definitely a player you can build a contender around. All top players need help to win championships.

I agree, role players are easier to get than stars, that's why the Melo trade had to happen, that makes the next 2 offseasons very important to find the correct pieces to put around Melo and Amare. That includes the right head coach.