TMS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

fishmike wrote:
What cracks me up is guys like me who believed in our young players preached patience. The pro Melo at all costs guys are now saying the exact same things.. its going to take a year, maybe more to build up the roster around these guys. Its pretty funny.

Man, I don't get it..What's so funny? I'm pro Melo -- did you ever once hear me say we're done building the team after that trade was completed? No you didn't..Not sure you heard that from any other pro Melo advocate either. If you did, cite the thread..I'm always looking for ways to build the team. We're not having immediate success right now and a lot of you are ignoring an important detail: for those of you interested in and focused on the HERE & NOW and winning immediately (and don't get me wrong, I wanna win now too---I wanna make the playoffs as the 6th seed or better and beat out Houston for the better draft pick---to me those are obtainable goals), we absolutely 100% **** the bed with the Jared Jeffries signing and will wind up getting zero out of Derrick Brown as well (the kid's already asking out of town). I've said it ad nauseum -- we could've filled those two roster spots with much better players..We didn't. We added a backup bigman that's not even better than Turiaf and a kid that the coach is never gonna play..Both will be gone at the end of the year (I can only pray Jeffries will be at least)..We should've added players that filled needs..We didn't, and that's gonna directly affect how good this team can be for the rest of this year..

Now we'll have to see what they're prepared to do this offseason..I'd like to see us add an impact player in the 1st round, purchase at least 1 2nd round pick (hopefully 2 or more), bring in Jerome Jordan, target and add the best undrafted player that slips and sign another 2-3 players on low-cost smart deals all while keeping as much cap room open for the summer of 2012..Not only do I think this can be done fairly easily, it can be done quickly and I've even detailed in great length the players that I'd like to add...Some of you guys wanna sit around and stew and say things like, "I told ya Melo sucks" and "we'll be bad for 4 years" go right ahead. I personally think that thought process is utter nonsense and unproductive..Not to mention it's flat out NOT TRUE..Those who believe that should jump off the bandwagon now and become Net fans..The rest of you, I invite you to discuss with me how to improve this team from here on in. WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too much negativity on this board, esp AFTER big moves are made. Like it or not, like Melo or not, this is the team..It should be all about how to build it up from here until we get it to a championship level. I'm shocked more of you don't feel this way.

Your focused on the the Knicks getting JJ? Knicks are + when he's on the floor. Who else was out there? Spare me your list of eligible 7 foot D league talent just waiting to be discovered. It doesnt exist. Not trying to be an ass but your not a better scout than 30 NBA general managers.

The negativity? Thats a result of the pro Melo guys, TMS, Vmart, jrsyhystla, Anubis, you?... that whole group. For that group there was ZERO debate. It was stars win titles. Stars win games. Melo is a star, none of our guys were. Great trade, end of discussion, anyone that doesnt see that is an idiot. Then we had that same group waving their melo flags after he hit one game winner reminding us all who right they were. Guess what? Melo probably isnt a top 10 players and the guys we gave up are pretty good. So the negativity (perceived or actual) is a result from the pro-melo guys making sure anyone that had issue with the trade were idiots and they are right.

I'm not negative. I'm calling things like I see them. Anthony's game is as one dimensional as I always thought. Man can he score, but he needs a STRONG supporting cast around him, ad we dont have that and guys like Nene, Camby, a younger Billups, etc etc.. those guys arent easy to sign, draft or trade for.

Fields is a cute player, but the least talented of Mos/Gallo/Chandler/Felton for sure.

On Melo:
I wanted him here. Game changing scorer. NY guy. He wanted to come here... but there was a price. I said if he wants to come to NY and win a title either Denver takes a reasonable deal (Fields, Chandler, AR, picks cap relief) or we sign Melo with cap space.

The cost was just too high. Sometimes you have to walk away. Melo to the Nets isnt a landscape changer

That would have left us with:
Felton, Melo, Gallo, Amare, Mosgov starting and Williams, Douglas and Turiaf off the bench. That team would be competing for a title.

Now we have Melo, Amare, a broken down Billups and some spare parts. Here's to hoping Douglas becomes the bext Gary Payton.

every post you make has my name in it, i think it's pretty sad u need to mention my name to validate your own opinions... that's kinda creepy.

for a guy who has Fish on ignore, you respond to pretty much every post he has your name in it... that's creepier.

TMS wrote:sorry but i've never said i had fishmike on ignore, he has though commented on putting me on ignore several times, but seems like he can't help but mention me in every single one of his posts... let me just say for a moderator who's supposed to be impartial u do a pretty crappy job of it.

i'm def not impartial. Perhaps you should put him on ignore?

I think Fish has a thing for you, he's the stalker type.

knickstorrents wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:I'm sorry I'm not buying it. Chandler (22), Gallo (22), Felton (26), Mosgov (25), AR (21) + a pick are all gone for one guy in the long term plans but your selling me on a brighter future?

One of the arguments for obtaining Melo is that players will want to play with Melo, Amear, and the third option. That third option doesn't come here if you have to resign those three guys. The team should be able to recruit players of decent talent to replace those players, and has shown a willingness to purchase picks.

The argument is

Melo + Billups/3rd option + future additions >>>> Chandler + Gallo + Felton + Mozgov + AR + pick

Gallo is player that will be difficult to replace. Chandler was the 23rd pick. Felton and Mozgov were free agent acquisitions. AR was a reclamation project. I won't speculate about the 2014 pick.

I feel the Knicks will be able to obtain comparable talents practically immediately. Not to mention, TD and Shawne Williams are getting a lot of the free up minutes and I have been quite pleased with their progression.

Maybe you disagree with that assessment, but I do believe 70-80 percent of those pieces can and will be replaced quickly.

So, if it is: Melo, Dwight, purchased pick, two players with something to prove/late first round picks, and a player another franchise gave up on, yes, I think that is a significantly brighter future than the traded away Knuggets

All of these arguments around players ignore the realities of the cap. Melo is not worth a max slot. So long as he occupies a max slot, and occupies more than LBJ or DWade, the Knicks will never get big 3 as good as Miami. Not to say that the big 3 team composition is one to strive for, I am still very suspect of its viability. But the moment we extended an inferior player in Carmelo such that he occupies more salary than other players who are better, the team is not in position to win a championship, and won't be until he is off the books and our assets are replenished.

The best way to do that is to trade him.

All the realities of the cap? What is the cap number under the new CBA? You know whay the Knicks won't get a big 3 as good as Miami? Miami has 2 of the 5 best players in the league. What assets are we talking about. The 2 SF's who play the same position as Melo? The Center project. 1st round and a few 2nd round picks. You know picks are always guaranteed to work out. Trade the guy after 3 weeks and a 6-8 record LOL. No wonder it takes a special person to play sports in New York.

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

fishmike wrote:
What cracks me up is guys like me who believed in our young players preached patience. The pro Melo at all costs guys are now saying the exact same things.. its going to take a year, maybe more to build up the roster around these guys. Its pretty funny.

Man, I don't get it..What's so funny? I'm pro Melo -- did you ever once hear me say we're done building the team after that trade was completed? No you didn't..Not sure you heard that from any other pro Melo advocate either. If you did, cite the thread..I'm always looking for ways to build the team. We're not having immediate success right now and a lot of you are ignoring an important detail: for those of you interested in and focused on the HERE & NOW and winning immediately (and don't get me wrong, I wanna win now too---I wanna make the playoffs as the 6th seed or better and beat out Houston for the better draft pick---to me those are obtainable goals), we absolutely 100% **** the bed with the Jared Jeffries signing and will wind up getting zero out of Derrick Brown as well (the kid's already asking out of town). I've said it ad nauseum -- we could've filled those two roster spots with much better players..We didn't. We added a backup bigman that's not even better than Turiaf and a kid that the coach is never gonna play..Both will be gone at the end of the year (I can only pray Jeffries will be at least)..We should've added players that filled needs..We didn't, and that's gonna directly affect how good this team can be for the rest of this year..

Now we'll have to see what they're prepared to do this offseason..I'd like to see us add an impact player in the 1st round, purchase at least 1 2nd round pick (hopefully 2 or more), bring in Jerome Jordan, target and add the best undrafted player that slips and sign another 2-3 players on low-cost smart deals all while keeping as much cap room open for the summer of 2012..Not only do I think this can be done fairly easily, it can be done quickly and I've even detailed in great length the players that I'd like to add...Some of you guys wanna sit around and stew and say things like, "I told ya Melo sucks" and "we'll be bad for 4 years" go right ahead. I personally think that thought process is utter nonsense and unproductive..Not to mention it's flat out NOT TRUE..Those who believe that should jump off the bandwagon now and become Net fans..The rest of you, I invite you to discuss with me how to improve this team from here on in. WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too much negativity on this board, esp AFTER big moves are made. Like it or not, like Melo or not, this is the team..It should be all about how to build it up from here until we get it to a championship level. I'm shocked more of you don't feel this way.

Your focused on the the Knicks getting JJ? Knicks are + when he's on the floor. Who else was out there? Spare me your list of eligible 7 foot D league talent just waiting to be discovered. It doesnt exist. Not trying to be an ass but your not a better scout than 30 NBA general managers.

The negativity? Thats a result of the pro Melo guys, TMS, Vmart, jrsyhystla, Anubis, you?... that whole group. For that group there was ZERO debate. It was stars win titles. Stars win games. Melo is a star, none of our guys were. Great trade, end of discussion, anyone that doesnt see that is an idiot. Then we had that same group waving their melo flags after he hit one game winner reminding us all who right they were. Guess what? Melo probably isnt a top 10 players and the guys we gave up are pretty good. So the negativity (perceived or actual) is a result from the pro-melo guys making sure anyone that had issue with the trade were idiots and they are right.

I'm not negative. I'm calling things like I see them. Anthony's game is as one dimensional as I always thought. Man can he score, but he needs a STRONG supporting cast around him, ad we dont have that and guys like Nene, Camby, a younger Billups, etc etc.. those guys arent easy to sign, draft or trade for.

Fields is a cute player, but the least talented of Mos/Gallo/Chandler/Felton for sure.

On Melo:
I wanted him here. Game changing scorer. NY guy. He wanted to come here... but there was a price. I said if he wants to come to NY and win a title either Denver takes a reasonable deal (Fields, Chandler, AR, picks cap relief) or we sign Melo with cap space.

The cost was just too high. Sometimes you have to walk away. Melo to the Nets isnt a landscape changer

That would have left us with:
Felton, Melo, Gallo, Amare, Mosgov starting and Williams, Douglas and Turiaf off the bench. That team would be competing for a title.

Now we have Melo, Amare, a broken down Billups and some spare parts. Here's to hoping Douglas becomes the bext Gary Payton.

every post you make has my name in it, i think it's pretty sad u need to mention my name to validate your own opinions... that's kinda creepy.

for a guy who has Fish on ignore, you respond to pretty much every post he has your name in it... that's creepier.

Thats cool.

also.. these arent my opinions. These are facts.

FACT: your the most vocal support of the Melo trade, along w the others I mentioned
FACT: there was never a debate for you on whether it was good trade. It was stars win, the guys we gave up will never be as good as Melo... etc etc. I didnt read ALL the 32,000 posts on the subject but they all say the same
FACT: The Knicks have been a very poor team since the trade, and Melo has failed to do or show anything that indicates he's a leader, a franchise player or a star that can carry a team worth trading half your roster for.

OPINION: soon you will spin (if you havent already, I dont read your posts, they all say the same). Its the coaches fault, the GMs fault, the fans fault, Briggs fault, we just need patience, bla bla bla...

I'm done dude.

Back to basketball. Entertaining game last night. How did our stars play in the 4th? Did Melo hit a shot? Did our upgrade over Felton make good plays? Did Pierce destroy Melo in the qtr? Was our lack of depth exposed by the Celtics? Did we blow ANOTHER lead? I thought we had the ultimate closer? The guy that ensured we never had those long scoring droughts....

What you will never believe is I wish you were right (not about the greatness of bukkake videos). I wish Melo was everything you said, he came here, lit it up, showed leadership, asked to guard the best player like Gallo used to do... that would have been nice.

Bonn1997 wrote:

What you will never believe is I wish you were right (not about the greatness of bukkake videos). I wish Melo was everything you said, he came here, lit it up, showed leadership, asked to guard the best player like Gallo used to do... that would have been nice.

If he were that kind of player, he wouldn't have been available in a trade though.

Oh well. Here's rooting for you MElo... hope you figure it out while I'm still a fan

fishmike wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:I'm sorry I'm not buying it. Chandler (22), Gallo (22), Felton (26), Mosgov (25), AR (21) + a pick are all gone for one guy in the long term plans but your selling me on a brighter future?

One of the arguments for obtaining Melo is that players will want to play with Melo, Amear, and the third option. That third option doesn't come here if you have to resign those three guys. The team should be able to recruit players of decent talent to replace those players, and has shown a willingness to purchase picks.

The argument is

Melo + Billups/3rd option + future additions >>>> Chandler + Gallo + Felton + Mozgov + AR + pick

Gallo is player that will be difficult to replace. Chandler was the 23rd pick. Felton and Mozgov were free agent acquisitions. AR was a reclamation project. I won't speculate about the 2014 pick.

I feel the Knicks will be able to obtain comparable talents practically immediately. Not to mention, TD and Shawne Williams are getting a lot of the free up minutes and I have been quite pleased with their progression.

Maybe you disagree with that assessment, but I do believe 70-80 percent of those pieces can and will be replaced quickly.

So, if it is: Melo, Dwight, purchased pick, two players with something to prove/late first round picks, and a player another franchise gave up on, yes, I think that is a significantly brighter future than the traded away Knuggets

All of these arguments around players ignore the realities of the cap. Melo is not worth a max slot. So long as he occupies a max slot, and occupies more than LBJ or DWade, the Knicks will never get big 3 as good as Miami. Not to say that the big 3 team composition is one to strive for, I am still very suspect of its viability. But the moment we extended an inferior player in Carmelo such that he occupies more salary than other players who are better, the team is not in position to win a championship, and won't be until he is off the books and our assets are replenished.

The best way to do that is to trade him.

All the realities of the cap? What is the cap number under the new CBA? You know whay the Knicks won't get a big 3 as good as Miami? Miami has 2 of the 5 best players in the league. What assets are we talking about. The 2 SF's who play the same position as Melo? The Center project. 1st round and a few 2nd round picks. You know picks are always guaranteed to work out. Trade the guy after 3 weeks and a 6-8 record LOL. No wonder it takes a special person to play sports in New York.

Melo is supposed to attract people to come play here? His team in Denver is quite happy he's gone. He's already yelled at JJ for not getting him the ball with .03 seconds. He's out of shape. Its March and his legs are tired in the 4th qtr.

Giving a teamate lip during the heat of battle and admitting he was wrong after the game makes him a bad person? What you expect his team in Denver to say? Melo not wanting to be there any longer would rub any player the wrong way. What do current and former Cavs players think about Lebron?

Yeah Melo is out of shape. Do you enjoy making things up?

Bonn1997 wrote:

Marv wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

What you will never believe is I wish you were right (not about the greatness of bukkake videos). I wish Melo was everything you said, he came here, lit it up, showed leadership, asked to guard the best player like Gallo used to do... that would have been nice.

If he were that kind of player, he wouldn't have been available in a trade though.

sure he would. by not wanting to stay in denver any longer and not signing an extension with them.

If he were that kind of player, Denver would have given him the keys to the franchise and he'd have been happy there and there would have been no need to trade him. Players at that level almost never get traded.

lebron's that kind of player. and he got traded. because, like melo, he wanted to be somewhere else.

Marv wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Marv wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

What you will never believe is I wish you were right (not about the greatness of bukkake videos). I wish Melo was everything you said, he came here, lit it up, showed leadership, asked to guard the best player like Gallo used to do... that would have been nice.

If he were that kind of player, he wouldn't have been available in a trade though.

sure he would. by not wanting to stay in denver any longer and not signing an extension with them.

If he were that kind of player, Denver would have given him the keys to the franchise and he'd have been happy there and there would have been no need to trade him. Players at that level almost never get traded.

lebron's that kind of player. and he got traded. because, like melo, he wanted to be somewhere else.

He didn't really get traded. You know he was really an FA signing. The trade is just a technicality.

CashMoney wrote:Giving a teamate lip during the heat of battle and admitting he was wrong after the game makes him a bad person? What you expect his team in Denver to say? Melo not wanting to be there any longer would rub any player the wrong way. What do current and former Cavs players think about Lebron?

Yeah Melo is out of shape. Do you enjoy making things up?

As for him being out of shape watch and watch close. He's winded late in games and his 4th qtr performances have been poor. His shots short and his effort on defense poor. Again.. its an observation. He appears (to me) tired at the end of games. Too much party in NYC? Losing sleep from stress? I dont know. I can only guess. I see a tired player and he shouldnt be tired

His rebounding and FT attempts are down w/ the Knicks. When he should be attacking the rim and imposing his will late in games he's taking soft jumpers. He looks tired. You disagree?

I dont make anything up. I see what I see. I'm fully capable of being wrong. Him being out of shape is an observation.

Although Boomer and Carton were talking about how he couldnt do Lebron's ab workout. I have no idea what that means or is. If anyone knows I'm curious. Again.. just calling what I see