EWING33BXNY wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EWING33BXNY wrote:It really kills me that many of us on here wanted to win and win NOW. But the majority of us wanted this to happen without giving up any assets. IMHO that type of thinking is ABSURD. It was necessary for us to give up what we had in order to make it to the next level. Everyone that is against this trade talks about how we are handcuffed for the next few years and goes off the SPECULATION that Melo was going to FA. I’m a believer that Melo wanted to come to the Knicks and the Knicks only but any smart business man, who has a family, who needs to provide for, and has any bit of common sense WOULD NOT leave MILLIONS on the table. The only thing that is separating us from the NETS is a BRIDGE and that would have been too risky of a play. In all honesty we were not going to win with what we had this year or in the next few years to come. With Melo here he has the respect of the other players that NY is not a bad place to come and play. This is the first time in a LONG TIME that players around the league are even fielding calls from us. Over the past ten years we have been the laughing stock of the NBA. Now that we are headed in the right direction not everyone wants to think it was the right move. I’m not saying that as Knicks fans we need to gather together and sing “Kumbaya” but we shouldn’t have blinders on and think that we are not headed in the right direction because of the “assets” we no longer have.

its a perspective thing. I didnt love the trade but Melo is an all star every year and prob not a top 10 player but surely a top 15.

If two years ago you said we could get a GM to come in, clean house for two years then reload w/ Melo (26), Amare (28), Billups (34) and a bunch of spare parts I think 9 out of 10 would have signed up for that.

These playoffs are HUGE comging up. IF the Knicks can beat the Heat or Bulls in round one it sends a clear message that all this was worth it. How good we become rests on Walsh's ability to add the supporting cast.

I was not a big fan of the trade either because of what we gave up but I believed that we had to do it in order to get MELO. I considered Denver's Front Office being naive in the negotiations but they showed me different in the end. I think we should not doubt Walsh's ability to bring in the other pieces because he is shown to be capable of doing so before and players are now willing to come to the BIG CITY. As a team we are in a better place then Miami because the STARS we do have don't play the same position or do the same things.

I agree that these playoffs are going to be huge and I'm drinking the kool-aid that we are going to do well. No one really wants to deal with the team we have in the first round. Playing a first round playoffs series against Amare and Carmelo is a big headache for anyone!

I don't see how anyone can argue with my point of view-- we didnt just give up role players for Carmelo. We gave up a boatload of young really good talent with size that we couldve relied on for years. I dont even think we used AR right-we sent him out to the three pt line and fkced him up. In addition all of those picks that couldve just kept feeding us depth Y-Y--all for what. We gave up 7-1 6-11 6-10 6-8 all young athletic and talented our PG who at some pints was looked as an all star level

For a guy we couldve had for very little in FA. You guys dont have cahones--and we know Dolan must have a little weener. grow some balls and let it go to FA--call the bluff You dont play you are the player. We got abused.

BRIGGS wrote:

EWING33BXNY wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EWING33BXNY wrote:It really kills me that many of us on here wanted to win and win NOW. But the majority of us wanted this to happen without giving up any assets. IMHO that type of thinking is ABSURD. It was necessary for us to give up what we had in order to make it to the next level. Everyone that is against this trade talks about how we are handcuffed for the next few years and goes off the SPECULATION that Melo was going to FA. I’m a believer that Melo wanted to come to the Knicks and the Knicks only but any smart business man, who has a family, who needs to provide for, and has any bit of common sense WOULD NOT leave MILLIONS on the table. The only thing that is separating us from the NETS is a BRIDGE and that would have been too risky of a play. In all honesty we were not going to win with what we had this year or in the next few years to come. With Melo here he has the respect of the other players that NY is not a bad place to come and play. This is the first time in a LONG TIME that players around the league are even fielding calls from us. Over the past ten years we have been the laughing stock of the NBA. Now that we are headed in the right direction not everyone wants to think it was the right move. I’m not saying that as Knicks fans we need to gather together and sing “Kumbaya” but we shouldn’t have blinders on and think that we are not headed in the right direction because of the “assets” we no longer have.

its a perspective thing. I didnt love the trade but Melo is an all star every year and prob not a top 10 player but surely a top 15.

If two years ago you said we could get a GM to come in, clean house for two years then reload w/ Melo (26), Amare (28), Billups (34) and a bunch of spare parts I think 9 out of 10 would have signed up for that.

These playoffs are HUGE comging up. IF the Knicks can beat the Heat or Bulls in round one it sends a clear message that all this was worth it. How good we become rests on Walsh's ability to add the supporting cast.

I was not a big fan of the trade either because of what we gave up but I believed that we had to do it in order to get MELO. I considered Denver's Front Office being naive in the negotiations but they showed me different in the end. I think we should not doubt Walsh's ability to bring in the other pieces because he is shown to be capable of doing so before and players are now willing to come to the BIG CITY. As a team we are in a better place then Miami because the STARS we do have don't play the same position or do the same things.

I agree that these playoffs are going to be huge and I'm drinking the kool-aid that we are going to do well. No one really wants to deal with the team we have in the first round. Playing a first round playoffs series against Amare and Carmelo is a big headache for anyone!

I don't see how anyone can argue with my point of view-- we didnt just give up role players for Carmelo. We gave up a boatload of young really good talent with size that we couldve relied on for years. I dont even think we used AR right-we sent him out to the three pt line and fkced him up. In addition all of those picks that couldve just kept feeding us depth Y-Y--all for what. We gave up 7-1 6-11 6-10 6-8 all young athletic and talented our PG who at some pints was looked as an all star level

For a guy we couldve had for very little in FA. You guys dont have cahones--and we know Dolan must have a little weener. grow some balls and let it go to FA--call the bluff You dont play you are the player. We got abused.

I'm with you Briggs. We caved.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I think the trade may result in a lateral move, atleast this year....I honestly don't think we got much better and we certainly didn't get worse..before we were missing another star, now were missing the role players...the trade didn't balance out the roster at all and no matter how you look at it, without balance your not going to win consistantly..were going to be up and down depending on the match up...that was clearly evident in the magic game.

The problem is, it can take just as long to find suitable role players as it would to develope a star like chandler, ray, or gallo...aldridge joe johnson and al harford are perfect examples of what I'm talking about.

Totally disagree. That trade has made us near impossible to defend and we actually have a better Defense now. The Magic looked scared against us. If not for a sudden shift in attack that we didn't adjust to we wind that game. I think it's all about chemistry. Other teams have the advantage of more time together and so we aren't playing anywhere close to our maximum capability. Once everyone on the team fully trusts each other and learns each other, we'll be a major threat to anyone in the East.

We now have 3 closers in our staring lineup. As much as I loved Chan and Gallo, neither guy was really on that level in crunchtime. Now we have Chauncey, Melo and STAT who can get it done and there's no comparison to the team we had. Teams fear and respect us now.

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I think the trade may result in a lateral move, atleast this year....I honestly don't think we got much better and we certainly didn't get worse..before we were missing another star, now were missing the role players...the trade didn't balance out the roster at all and no matter how you look at it, without balance your not going to win consistantly..were going to be up and down depending on the match up...that was clearly evident in the magic game.

The problem is, it can take just as long to find suitable role players as it would to develope a star like chandler, ray, or gallo...aldridge joe johnson and al harford are perfect examples of what I'm talking about.

Totally disagree. That trade has made us near impossible to defend and we actually have a better Defense now. The Magic looked scared against us. If not for a sudden shift in attack that we didn't adjust to we wind that game. I think it's all about chemistry. Other teams have the advantage of more time together and so we aren't playing anywhere close to our maximum capability. Once everyone on the team fully trusts each other and learns each other, we'll be a major threat to anyone in the East.

We now have 3 closers in our staring lineup. As much as I loved Chan and Gallo, neither guy was really on that level in crunchtime. Now we have Chauncey, Melo and STAT who can get it done and there's no comparison to the team we had. Teams fear and respect us now.

near impossible to defend? pack the middle and make the role players beat you with jumpers. Seems Toney Douglas and Shawn Williams are just as likely to combine for 4-20 then the 15-25 they shoot every 3rd game. If you pack the middle Melo and Amare WILL settle for 15-18 foot jumpers. Beat the Knicks on the boards... Knicks are NOT hard to defend. The advantage is in crunchtime where they have 3 great finishers and 3 guys who will get to the line and hit their FTs

Seems Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler are just as likely to combine for 4-20 then the 15-25 they shoot every 3rd game. And now the Knicks get the benefit of Melo's multi-dimensional shooting.

You can defend the Knicks now, yes, but it's so much harder now than it was before. Just hug the perimeter and make Amar'e work for his 30. Can't do that anymore

BRIGGS wrote:

EWING33BXNY wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EWING33BXNY wrote:It really kills me that many of us on here wanted to win and win NOW. But the majority of us wanted this to happen without giving up any assets. IMHO that type of thinking is ABSURD. It was necessary for us to give up what we had in order to make it to the next level. Everyone that is against this trade talks about how we are handcuffed for the next few years and goes off the SPECULATION that Melo was going to FA. I’m a believer that Melo wanted to come to the Knicks and the Knicks only but any smart business man, who has a family, who needs to provide for, and has any bit of common sense WOULD NOT leave MILLIONS on the table. The only thing that is separating us from the NETS is a BRIDGE and that would have been too risky of a play. In all honesty we were not going to win with what we had this year or in the next few years to come. With Melo here he has the respect of the other players that NY is not a bad place to come and play. This is the first time in a LONG TIME that players around the league are even fielding calls from us. Over the past ten years we have been the laughing stock of the NBA. Now that we are headed in the right direction not everyone wants to think it was the right move. I’m not saying that as Knicks fans we need to gather together and sing “Kumbaya” but we shouldn’t have blinders on and think that we are not headed in the right direction because of the “assets” we no longer have.

its a perspective thing. I didnt love the trade but Melo is an all star every year and prob not a top 10 player but surely a top 15.

If two years ago you said we could get a GM to come in, clean house for two years then reload w/ Melo (26), Amare (28), Billups (34) and a bunch of spare parts I think 9 out of 10 would have signed up for that.

These playoffs are HUGE comging up. IF the Knicks can beat the Heat or Bulls in round one it sends a clear message that all this was worth it. How good we become rests on Walsh's ability to add the supporting cast.

I was not a big fan of the trade either because of what we gave up but I believed that we had to do it in order to get MELO. I considered Denver's Front Office being naive in the negotiations but they showed me different in the end. I think we should not doubt Walsh's ability to bring in the other pieces because he is shown to be capable of doing so before and players are now willing to come to the BIG CITY. As a team we are in a better place then Miami because the STARS we do have don't play the same position or do the same things.

I agree that these playoffs are going to be huge and I'm drinking the kool-aid that we are going to do well. No one really wants to deal with the team we have in the first round. Playing a first round playoffs series against Amare and Carmelo is a big headache for anyone!

I don't see how anyone can argue with my point of view-- we didnt just give up role players for Carmelo. We gave up a boatload of young really good talent with size that we couldve relied on for years. I dont even think we used AR right-we sent him out to the three pt line and fkced him up. In addition all of those picks that couldve just kept feeding us depth Y-Y--all for what. We gave up 7-1 6-11 6-10 6-8 all young athletic and talented our PG who at some pints was looked as an all star level

For a guy we couldve had for very little in FA. You guys dont have cahones--and we know Dolan must have a little weener. grow some balls and let it go to FA--call the bluff You dont play you are the player. We got abused.

If you dont like the trade fine, I didnt love it either, but dont say there were other options to get this player. The choices were stick w/ what we had or trade that package to get Melo.

Melo may not be a top player, thats debatable, but he's certainly top 15. He's never played on a losing team and he's an annual all star. He's one of the best crunch time players in the game. I liked the guys we gave up. I liked Lee also. The guys we got back are harder to aquire and always cost the most.

Briggs the fact remains... Only Detroit has won a title without relying on a pair of star players, but they had Billups, the defensive player of the year in Wallace and some other bigtime pieces.

Of the guys we gave up (I like them all) who was set up to be a top 10 player in this league who was going to impress his will on games and drop 30 during the playoffs? Gallo might have shown signs... I'm not going there though

fishmike wrote:near impossible to defend? pack the middle and make the role players beat you with jumpers. Seems Toney Douglas and Shawn Williams are just as likely to combine for 4-20 then the 15-25 they shoot every 3rd game. If you pack the middle Melo and Amare WILL settle for 15-18 foot jumpers. Beat the Knicks on the boards... Knicks are NOT hard to defend. The advantage is in crunchtime where they have 3 great finishers and 3 guys who will get to the line and hit their FTs

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

EWING33BXNY wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EWING33BXNY wrote:It really kills me that many of us on here wanted to win and win NOW. But the majority of us wanted this to happen without giving up any assets. IMHO that type of thinking is ABSURD. It was necessary for us to give up what we had in order to make it to the next level. Everyone that is against this trade talks about how we are handcuffed for the next few years and goes off the SPECULATION that Melo was going to FA. I’m a believer that Melo wanted to come to the Knicks and the Knicks only but any smart business man, who has a family, who needs to provide for, and has any bit of common sense WOULD NOT leave MILLIONS on the table. The only thing that is separating us from the NETS is a BRIDGE and that would have been too risky of a play. In all honesty we were not going to win with what we had this year or in the next few years to come. With Melo here he has the respect of the other players that NY is not a bad place to come and play. This is the first time in a LONG TIME that players around the league are even fielding calls from us. Over the past ten years we have been the laughing stock of the NBA. Now that we are headed in the right direction not everyone wants to think it was the right move. I’m not saying that as Knicks fans we need to gather together and sing “Kumbaya” but we shouldn’t have blinders on and think that we are not headed in the right direction because of the “assets” we no longer have.

its a perspective thing. I didnt love the trade but Melo is an all star every year and prob not a top 10 player but surely a top 15.

If two years ago you said we could get a GM to come in, clean house for two years then reload w/ Melo (26), Amare (28), Billups (34) and a bunch of spare parts I think 9 out of 10 would have signed up for that.

These playoffs are HUGE comging up. IF the Knicks can beat the Heat or Bulls in round one it sends a clear message that all this was worth it. How good we become rests on Walsh's ability to add the supporting cast.

I was not a big fan of the trade either because of what we gave up but I believed that we had to do it in order to get MELO. I considered Denver's Front Office being naive in the negotiations but they showed me different in the end. I think we should not doubt Walsh's ability to bring in the other pieces because he is shown to be capable of doing so before and players are now willing to come to the BIG CITY. As a team we are in a better place then Miami because the STARS we do have don't play the same position or do the same things.

I agree that these playoffs are going to be huge and I'm drinking the kool-aid that we are going to do well. No one really wants to deal with the team we have in the first round. Playing a first round playoffs series against Amare and Carmelo is a big headache for anyone!

I don't see how anyone can argue with my point of view-- we didnt just give up role players for Carmelo. We gave up a boatload of young really good talent with size that we couldve relied on for years. I dont even think we used AR right-we sent him out to the three pt line and fkced him up. In addition all of those picks that couldve just kept feeding us depth Y-Y--all for what. We gave up 7-1 6-11 6-10 6-8 all young athletic and talented our PG who at some pints was looked as an all star level

For a guy we couldve had for very little in FA. You guys dont have cahones--and we know Dolan must have a little weener. grow some balls and let it go to FA--call the bluff You dont play you are the player. We got abused.

because your point of view is NOT accurate. Your still working the angle we could have had Melo as FA. That was NOT a possibility. Melo was NOT leaving that money on the table. It wasnt the $8mm less that Bosh/Lebron/Wade took, it was closer to $20mm. If the Knicks didnt make that deal he was going to NJ and signing there. End of story.

If you dont like the trade fine, I didnt love it either, but dont say there were other options to get this player. The choices were stick w/ what we had or trade that package to get Melo.

Melo may not be a top player, thats debatable, but he's certainly top 15. He's never played on a losing team and he's an annual all star. He's one of the best crunch time players in the game. I liked the guys we gave up. I liked Lee also. The guys we got back are harder to aquire and always cost the most.

Briggs the fact remains... Only Detroit has won a title without relying on a pair of star players, but they had Billups, the defensive player of the year in Wallace and some other bigtime pieces.

Of the guys we gave up (I like them all) who was set up to be a top 10 player in this league who was going to impress his will on games and drop 30 during the playoffs? Gallo might have shown signs... I'm not going there though

Fishmike---call the bluff--simple as that.

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I think the trade may result in a lateral move, atleast this year....I honestly don't think we got much better and we certainly didn't get worse..before we were missing another star, now were missing the role players...the trade didn't balance out the roster at all and no matter how you look at it, without balance your not going to win consistantly..were going to be up and down depending on the match up...that was clearly evident in the magic game.

The problem is, it can take just as long to find suitable role players as it would to develope a star like chandler, ray, or gallo...aldridge joe johnson and al harford are perfect examples of what I'm talking about.

Totally disagree. That trade has made us near impossible to defend and we actually have a better Defense now. The Magic looked scared against us. If not for a sudden shift in attack that we didn't adjust to we wind that game. I think it's all about chemistry. Other teams have the advantage of more time together and so we aren't playing anywhere close to our maximum capability. Once everyone on the team fully trusts each other and learns each other, we'll be a major threat to anyone in the East.

We now have 3 closers in our staring lineup. As much as I loved Chan and Gallo, neither guy was really on that level in crunchtime. Now we have Chauncey, Melo and STAT who can get it done and there's no comparison to the team we had. Teams fear and respect us now.

near impossible to defend? pack the middle and make the role players beat you with jumpers. Seems Toney Douglas and Shawn Williams are just as likely to combine for 4-20 then the 15-25 they shoot every 3rd game. If you pack the middle Melo and Amare WILL settle for 15-18 foot jumpers. Beat the Knicks on the boards... Knicks are NOT hard to defend. The advantage is in crunchtime where they have 3 great finishers and 3 guys who will get to the line and hit their FTs

Absolute bingo. Pack the lane and let TD SW or whoever else they want to kill us--let Carmelo shoot 9-22 and amare will get his. Our PG position has been the catalyst to the 3-2 move. Im not saying this is a bad team--it still has very good potential with some additional good moves. Any given night we can win. But it will be a race to see if we can fill it in correctly and if teams can use some strategic moves to counter our two big scorers.
That being said lets go Knicks--make BRIGGS shut up.

AnubisADL wrote:Same old Randolph thinking he is a PG trying to bring the ball up and turning the ball over.

Scored off dunks and shots around the rim. Luckily for him he can play PF and C for Minny and is allowed to make mistakes. He wouldn't have succeeded here.

is this the only feedback from the game?

AnubisADL? anything else?